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User Interfaces in Free Software

Posted by michael on Sun Apr 21, 2002 04:57 AM
from the too-many-widgets-spoil-the-desktop dept.
Havoc Pennington wrote a piece on creating good user interfaces, with special attention toward GNOME 2. See also the advogato thread.
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  • simple: (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    follow the Apple UI guidelines :)
    • I love how this comment is less trollish than it may sound at first: The MacOS UI guidelines are a classic example on how strict and consistent guidelines can help providing a good user experience. Microsoft has never been as strict and consistent in their guidelines (MDI: one day it's in, one day it's out) and that carries through to the applications. Different key bindings, different menu order, different metaphors and icon styles.


      It is strange how many OSS fans relate to such things: On the one hand, they do not accept strict guidelines that tell you how an application has too look or behave - for them it is taking away their "freedom". OTOH, at the same time they're very strict and disciplined when it comes to following technical guidelines like RFCs, IEEE and W3C standards. No, I did not say hippocrats. But I did think it.

      • Guidelines are guidelines. They are not hard and fast rules.

        Standards are standards. You screw with the implementation of a standard and your application is worthless.

        You screw with the UI and it may be ugly or less user friendly, but it still works.

        Most developers follow the basics regardless of OS - File, Edit, View, Help is always the last menu item on the menu bar. "File|Open", "File|Save", "File|Print" ... need more examples?

        IIRC, the last time someone emulated MS and followed guidelines (Ximian's evolution) there was an outcry from /.ers about copying MS and how "wrong' it was.

        Dammit, make up your minds!

        And we won't even discuss the "Look and Feel" lawsuits in the early 90's when people emulated other UIs.

    • As a user of Apple products and an advocate of their philosophy (user experience / get shit done) I believe that Apple has made the most effort as a commercial company to enage the user as a person, instead of a 'worker'. They don't do everything right but they do somehow manage to bridge the gap between what is aesthetically pleasing to the eye and what is aesthetically pleading to the mind... and with OS X have managed to stay within societally correct technical perspectives. It doesn't take a genius to discern that a UI should present the user with, essential tools in the easiest manner possible. How do you do that? By presenting them with an interface that gets straight to the point, ie., tell them what you, as an expert, would do in their place, while presenting any alternatives that make sense. Apple simply seems to do this best. No reason, they just make the effort to look into what people really want to do, not what they want them to do (ie: M$) but what is most useful for them. X-Windows does this as well but because it is not an integral part of the experience it is a second class citizen. All aspects need to be reviewed, down to the pixels which communicate functionality (icons/menus) Process is a key factor here. What do you look for first, what is most important to you and are you satisfied enough with what you have to improve upon it. Many linux users still complain about the kernel.... what does the UI have to do with that? When the linux kernel is taken for granted and relegated to something only payed reviewers attend, then the GUI will become more paramount. Here is where standards and API's take hold... ie Themes... Of course these are all interrelated eventually, but it is more of an engineering feat than philosopjy... Look at Apple as a fount of experience, then improve upon it..
    • Hmm. Do the Apple UI guidelines say anything about:

      • Using a stack based window manager?
      • Using consistent window switching keys
      • Designing GUIs to use right-mouse buttons, yet not providing a right mouse button, so hopelessly confusing new users as they struggle to remember which key to press?
      • Making enter rename a file, and Apple-O open it?
      • Having a consistent application closing policy

      Don't get me wrong, Apple do some good work with UI design, but to pretend that they have the most intuitive UIs is naive. When I first started using my friends Mac, he had to sit next to me and constantly remind me to close the app manually, which button means right click, and so on.

      People waay overrate the Mac as GUI perfection. Open software shouldn't just copy it mindlessly.

  • by mikedavis44 (553463) on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:09AM (#3382530) Journal
    Right from the start I think that the free software movement was geared by geeks toward geeks, and it's become a game of catch up developing quality gui's and moving away from traditional cli's. Added focus in this area will surely see a boost in gaining mainstream desktop users and subsequently enthusing them with the free software ideal. Of course a pretty interface is excess baggage and can lead to bloatware, but surely it's imperative to the future of open source?!
  • Worth reading (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stew77 (412272) on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:09AM (#3382531)
    Now, that is finally a good article on OSS UIs. In a lot of places, UIs are misunderstood as fancy graphics shell with lots of features and options. Unfortunately, this is the direction I see KDE running.


    A lot of people do not understand how themes and options do decrease the usability of the UI. If you are able to improve the UI significantly by changing a few options or applying a skin, then there was something wrong with the whole thing in the first place. People should not waste their energy on themeing engines or messy options dialogs (my favourite horror is the KDE control center) but focus on one UI style and make that the best. Rather one perfect UI than a dozen so-so ones.

    • Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other. No UI is perfect for all tasks and all people. (However, many of the multitude of Unix UIs are sub-par.)

      People can get seriously religious about, e.g., focus behaviour, and there's no way that you'll succeed in pleasing everyone with only one type of focus behaviour -- but no way you can have one consistent UI experience unless you enforce one and only one.

      And that's for a simple option -- difficulty is magnified when it gets to more complex stuff. UIs that are good for the beginning user may not be good for the power-user... and so on.

      I'm glad I'm not a UI designer, so I can just sit here and shoot down everyone else's hard efforts. :) (No, not really, but it's a much easier job to criticse than to actually do...)
      • UIs that are good for the beginning user may not be good for the power-user...


        That's a common point I have yet to see proven. Usually, expert users use different applications than beginners and the designer/developer of an application can adjust to that.


        For applications that are being used by all kinds of users (e.g. a file manager), ease of use serves both sides. If you find something that makes a beginner's life easier, why should experts not be able to profit from that? It's not like having to throw annoying wizards all over the place was ever essential for an easy-to-use system.


        The pure beginner is, IMSO, overrated. Easy to use should not mean beginnerfriendly but userfriendly. A homecomputer is not an ATM or ticket vending machine that needs to be understood immediately. If it's a little hard to learn, the user will bother once. If it's a pain in the ass to use, the user will bother every time. See the Anti-Mac Interface [acm.org] for details.

        • While I agree with much of what you write, I think the distinction between "average" users and "power" users is an important one. (I dislike "beginner" and "experienced" because that's not really the issue; often, some beginners will immediately want to learn all the tricks, while some experienced users will never need them.)

          To take a prime example, and one of my pet peeves, consider the interface for your file system. On many systems, you can have a CLI with commands to do things like copying or renaming files, creating directories, etc., and you can have a GUI interface with folder windows and so on. Most users are happy using the folder windows most of the time, experienced or not. I'd much rather browse my file system with something like a tree view and file list combination than with a CLI and constant use of ls or dir commands, and I doubt I'm alone here.

          OTOH, suppose you want to create a new folder at me/one/two/three/four/new, and currently all you've got is me. It's faster to open up the CLI and use a command that can make five directories in one go than to create one in the GUI, open it, create two under it, open that, and so on. Anyone who's tried to rename "*.doc" to "*.bak" using a windowing GUI is probably familiar with the problem, too: a few seconds at the CLI, a few minutes in the windowing system. And hey, when's the last time you saw regular expressions being used in a GUI? ;-)

          So I think it's fair to say that some applications are universally required in some form, and that sometimes, different perspectives on the same functionality are more useful to different people (or to be more correct, are more under different circumstances, and it just happens that some people encounter those circumstances more than others). They key thing, though, is not so much the functionality -- you can rename a file in either a CLI or a GUI -- but the way(s) you provide that functionality to the user.

    • Yes - it's usually only new users or people who've got fed up of staring at the same screen each day that bother with anything but default skins. The problem is when people design skins that are designed for the aesthetic effect rather than a functional effect and obscure what are active/ inactive parts of the screen.
    • by Speare (84249) on Sunday April 21 2002, @09:30AM (#3382924) Homepage

      The article lists these issues as why Free Software UI sucks.

      • Not enough software designers to get the work done.
      • Too many cooks spoil the code's architecture.
      • Free software doesn't innovate, just copies.
      • Volunteers only want to do cool stuff.
      • Volunteers don't do boring details.
      • Maintainers cave in and add misguided features or code rather than endure flamewars.
      • People want their own features to point at.
      • Workarounds are introduced during the devel process and never removed.

      Hello? Where is the #1 reason?

      • FREE SOFTWARE DESIGNERS DON'T UNDERSTAND THEIR USERS' GOALS.

      Sure, developers write things for themselves. Developers write things for their co-workers. But do developers of Free Software really go out and research the goals of their users?

      In looking at Linux user interfaces, I see that most tools merely tie some toolkit strings onto the underlying code so that it can be manipulated. The current thinking seems to be that if the underlying driver can do something, expose that ability directly on the command line or in a preferences dialog box.

      A great case-in-point is cd-burning software. Type (cdrecord --help). The typical GUI wrapper is just the Gtk equivalent of (cdrecord --help). A massive soup of options with little help for people who don't know what a leadin is, don't care what a TOC is, don't understand how the lovers Romeo and Joliet got into CD-burning, and don't understand whether they want to fixate the disc or not.

      Instead, turn it over.

      • Who are the intended users?
      • What are their goals?
      • How would they like to get their tasks done?

      Make some archetypical example users of your application. Nate the newbie. Seth the secretary. Judy the junior admin. Devin the developer. Whoever it is that needs your help to accomplish their goals, get to know these people.

      A useful CD burning tool doesn't need to expose everything the driver can do. Add music files here. Add data files or folders here. Might you want to add more files at a later date? Burn the disc.

      In Alan Cooper's words, "don't make the user feel stupid."

      A user interface needs to start with the user, and proceed to the interface.

      • Re:Worth reading (Score:5, Informative)

        by TheAJofOZ (215260) <adrianNO@SPAMsymphonious.net> on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:52AM (#3382589) Homepage Journal
        Who gets to decide which single UI is the best though? And then what happens when tens of thousands of people disagree?

        Develop a good UI and let experts in the area choose it and you will find that there are few people who disagree that it's the best. UI design doesn't come down to personal preference, it is based on common traits that almost all people share. People only have one locus of attention, it is easier to use an interface that makes the options visible in a clear manner rather than making you guess at it, the time taken to hit a target is directly related to the distance distance to the object and the size of the object, etc, etc. It's all been documented, go do some reading on it.

      • Re:installing (Score:3, Insightful)

        The installer is always the first part of your UI that the user sees. Unfortunately, it may also be the last.

        In many cases the question of "why should the end user be installing anything in the first place?" is totally ignored. No-one demmands that cars must be end user servicable. Or expects the typicall office worker to install their own network, telephone and power sockets, let alone assemble their own office using bricks, wood and plasterboard.
        But suddenly when it comes to computers it's vital that everything be end user installable (even if it results in making the job of real sysadmins considerably harder.)
  • by saphena (322272) on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:09AM (#3382532) Homepage
    The attitude of free software nerds towards useability is often the defining limitation of the spread of free software.

    The fact that it's free should not mean that you should have to be a nerd to use it. Good useability is probably more important than correct functionality.
        • If something looks good and is easy to use, its faults will often be tolerated (and they can always be fixed). If it doesn't look good or it isn't easy to use it may not live long enough to get fixed.

          I would imagine you use Windows then... or perhaps OSX. Because in my experience Linux on the Desktop is hardly "easy to use" or intuitive despite all the efforts made to make it so. It's fun to play around with on my dual-boot WindowsXP system but my day-in day-out uses revolve around Windows simply for the fact that everything works. I don't mind tinkering with configuration files for hours or days on end to get my Linux server to do something I want it to do. (i.e. samba, ftp server, e-mail, dns, dhcp, etc..) but when it comes to my Desktop, I just want the stuff to work. I don't find it enjoyable or even tollerable for that matter to fight my system for hours or days just to get an MPEG or DiVX music video to play back. And when it finally works, the quality and speed is sketchy at best. And the functionality of the program that I'm using to play it back with consists of "Play/Stop".

          If it were just that one aspect that was a pain in the neck I could easily look past it and use Linux for my Desktop. Unfortunately I run into the same type of half-butted configuration nightmares for just about everything I want to do. Fonts, image display, games, instant messaging, web browsing, e-mail, printing, cd recording, copying images from my digital sitll camera, downloading video via firewire from my video camera, and on and on and on.

          The X Window System works great when I just want to fire up some shells and ssh/telnet to a bunch of remote hosts and have them all on one screen at the same time.
          • Like first I agree with the post about usability with you. Especially for newcomers and weekend users. What I don't agree with is your performance description and configuration troubles. You've expressed (and showed your knowledge) that with divx playing sketchy and other comments about UI.

            Like first divx. Works like hell for me and for all of my converted friends. Way better than windoze. My best result is watching divx, formating floppy, burning cd, listening to mp3, and meanwhile opening staroffice. All that on Celeron 400 (wanted to test low end machine). About picture being sketchy, mplayer set with correct parameters has best picture based on my testing.

            I guess that the main thing you've done wrong, was testing gnome. Anyone reading your comment would say, that UI that you want is KDE and not GNOME.

            KDE is not for tweakers like me, but usefull for Windowze users, that want to become Linux users on a fast lane. I personally wanna tweak every bit of my desktop and make additional lower underlaying scripts, to get job done as fast as it gets. For that I really don't consider waste of time. Every new distro takes me about a day to adapt my changes to it, but hey, I don't need to install software /home/$user (and other partitions that I expect to work immidietly) works great.

            So in conclusion I give you few tips to better usage so you wouldn't need to complain about settings anymore. Tips for a first install:
            a. Hardway
            1. Reconsider install partitions well (make /home this one will not be formated anymore, also by your choices partitions you would like automatically to preserve)
            2. Install
            3. Make some /home/System> bin etc lib sbin fonts startup usr
            3.1. If you're geeky enough put some your rc.d inside of that etc and execute as a deamon from original /etc/rc.d when starting system, personally I don't restart machine when is set up my redhat 7.2 has
            uptime from 4 days after release
            3.2. Be carefull about security
            4. add bin and sbin and others to your $HOME/bash_profile
            5. decide which configurations you'd like to preserve but not /etc/fstab or /etc/rc.d and few others and make links to /home/System/etc/
            6. Install additional system software by making chroot or specifiying /home/System as default root for install so software wouldn't get erased when you'd install new version of OS
            7. Add some deamon of your choice that tracks changed files in fonts folder and here is your font manager best there is
            8. After that start tweaking your desktop manager
            8.1. Set file type owners
            8.2. Browsing
            8.3. etc
            9. Enjoy until new release
            10. Install new release (don't format home)
            11. start your etc configuration replacment script to restore links to your configuration
            12. Tweak new things in new version
            13. Enjoy this version until new release

            b. Have some friend that knows how to tweak system like that do tweaking

            c. Stick with what you were doing, nobody will force you

            Don't wanna start flame war about KDE and GNOME, same tweak applies for KDE also. What I was reffering is that KDE is preset for user, GNOME not (allows us to choose our tools, but it wouldn't do bad if preset would be an option too for newcomers, as in my case I wanna do it my self).
  • In a previous posting [slashdot.org], I sum up what I think are the main reasons why Linux won't make it to the desktop just yet. Wrapping up my arguments nicely, the article was scored down as a troll.

  • by prankster (162363) on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:14AM (#3382538) Homepage
    To quote Bertrand Meyer from his monumental book Object Oriented Software Construction [amazon.com]:

    Good user interface designers follow a more prudent policy. They make as limited assumptions about their users as they can. When you design an interactive system, you may expect that users are members of the human race and that they can read, move a mouse, click a button, and type (slowly): not much more. If the software addresses a specialized area, you may perhaps assume that your users are familier with its basic concepts. But even that is risky.

    Which lead to the following design principle:

    User Interface Design principle
    Do not pretend that you know the user; you don't
    • Bertrand Meyer wrote a very interesting book, and designed a very interesting language. When I'm trying to do what he thought was proper and important, I like the language a lot and appreciate it's elegance and design. When I'm trying to do something that he either didn't think was proper or important, I find it intolerable.

      His design principles lead one to construct things which always work. And depend on things which always work. Good approximations are not allowed. When and where this works, it's great. When and where it doesn't ...

      E.g.: He disallows the overloading of operators, because the type of the operand is not an always reliable method for disambiguating the meaning. And he's right, it isn't. But it works most of the time, and in Eiffel (his language) one could create separate types for degrees_Centigrade and degrees_Farenheit, and thus disambiguate those arguments. But because a float could be either, he disallows overloading.

      Where he to strictly follow his own rules, he would say that because a user interface cannot be guaranteed to work for everyone, you shouldn't have one. He's not that self consistent, but that's the only thing that saves him.

      Everyone should read his book. But then they should immediately try to read a file with multiple types of data items in it that have different interpretation rules depending on the content. (Say a CVS file, where some of the fields may contain internal carriage returns.)

      I always pretend to know my target audience. I just know that it's a pretense. So I try to cluster the possible incompatibilities into a cluster (or at least place an easily findable mark by them). This allows me to get the first version out in a reasonable amount of time, but still enables me to go back and adapt for a more general case on an "if needed" basis. (So far I haven't needed two. Most of my applications have a very small audience [around 20 people]. But this is a "be prepared" kind of thing that I can do with minimal cost. The other would involve either massivley expensive software purchases or considerably more work.)

  • Interesting article, or set of opinions.

    The major stumbling block I see in free desktop software is it's inability to innovate much further than win32 or MacOs, but there's a reason for that.

    It's called familiarity - to innovate too far, would be to alienate users, so it has to be a gradual process.

    KDE and Gnome have improved enormously, but they are still lacking the cohesive feel that win32 and MacOS desktops have. IOW, things like keyboard shortcuts, copy and pasting text between applications etc. are virtually universal between all different applications.

    The question should be asked, are features like transparent window borders, animated icons, slide-out-menus really neccessary for a productive desktop ?

    Shouldn't more development time be put into creating an efficient, robust and stable work-horse desktop and less time on the fancy bits ?

    There's another aspect to this - the UI 'hobbyist' or 'tinkerer' - the very people who support and participate in the development of free UI's sometimes seem to loose the most important idea behind a good UI - the end user. Much time is spent on the idea that 'total customisation' should be the end goal - is this flawed thinking ?

    How many people really want to customise thier UI to the 9th degree ? - surely the majority of people simply want a plain and effective UI that helps there productivity ?

    More customisation = more code = more bugs = slower UI
    • by Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) on Sunday April 21 2002, @07:45AM (#3382736)
      Much time is spent on the idea that 'total customisation' should be the end goal - is this flawed thinking ?

      Yes.

      The goal should be the exact opposite: the have a system so intuitive and powerful that customising it is entirely unnecessary. Of course, you'll never reach that goal, but it should always be the target.

      Your post was right on the mark.

  • My Rules (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rbeattie (43187) <russ@russellbeattie.com> on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:19AM (#3382545) Homepage

    As obvious as these sound, here are my rules for a good user interface on the work I do, whether it's a web page or a GUI app:

    1) Keep It Simple Stupid
    2) Think Like a User (the dumber the user, the better the UI)
    3) Make it LOOK better than it WORKS

    The last rule is true because if the app looks like crap, no one will be happy, but if it looks GREAT and works so-so people (users, your boss) will be excited and give you more time to get the bugs worked out. This is my main problem with someone like Jakob Nielson's whiny biatching... the app has to be simple, but it's got to have good design too. Colors, buttons, subtle eye-candy, well balanced spaces, etc. Usability is key, but design is always first.

    Anyways, many of the people who work on open source software seem like the people who CAN'T STAND USERS. And by users, I mean the stupid, stupid people who might use their software. It seems pretty weird, but it's true... Maybe a little less antipathy for the newbies would go a long way to helping OSS GUI design.

    -Russ

    • by rbeattie (43187) <russ@russellbeattie.com> on Sunday April 21 2002, @07:08AM (#3382685) Homepage

      Okay, I was thinking about this offline and I wanted to add that there's a perfect opportunity here for an OSS startup:

      Give it a cool name like "SimpleFace" or something non-frightening like that (i.e. real words).

      Then this company would do three things (complying to KISS):

      1) Create a set of rules and guidelines for GUI applications along the lines of Apple's Human Interface guidelines. Include all of the most recent theories and practice. Publish this online. Use versions so that people can tell what's the latest draft, etc.

      2) Certify apps that comply to the SimpleFace rules. Open Source Software gets certified for free. Certify non-free software for a fee. They get to put a SimpleFace smile icon on their web pages or boxes.

      3) Create a set of classes - both online and corporate training - based on the guidelines. Some for free, others for a fee.

      Once momentum started building on something like this, corporations would be more willing to switch to OSS software if they knew that training was going to be minimized because the apps that use the SimpleFace guidelines would be easy to use for those already familiar with other SimpleFace apps.

      SimpleFace could also actively participate in the other projects as a GUI testing center. Whereas the rest of the OSS crowd might not pay attention to usability and design issues, SimpleFace would be there to help out. Providing feedback, suggestions, or even app dev for those interested.

      Why am I thinking "startup" and not just "movement" or "organization?" because I think that something like this is needed now before the OSS movement loses any more momentum in the UI race from companies like M$ and Apple. (Under the theory that a startup could move faster than a committee.) How many Unix heads do YOU know that are switching to Mac OSX because their GUI is awesome? Lots.

      -Russ

      • Re:My Rules (Score:5, Insightful)

        by TheAJofOZ (215260) <adrianNO@SPAMsymphonious.net> on Sunday April 21 2002, @06:04AM (#3382606) Homepage Journal
        the generally snobby 'RTFM, dumbass' attitude that is ingrained in many OSS programmers.

        Every time you hear someone tell a user to 'RTFM', note the question down as an area of your app that you think is good but probably needs to have a UI redesign. The more the question is asked the more it needs a UI redesign.

  • by falsemover (190073) on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:28AM (#3382551)
    The guys at work had a chuckle at the iarchitect.com User Interface Hall of Shame. [iarchitect.com] If companies like Microsoft weren't featured it wouldn't be half the fun!

    Everyone enjoys a scape goat; I noticed that a lot of university professors also reference this site in their online GUI course notes!

    Anyone know of any other good "chambers of GUI horrors".

    Torturé par la fenêtre.
      • Windows 2000's interface is *very* similar to Windows 98's, so I am not sure how you say "Win2000 with million of Control panels sucks". Actually I find Windows 2000's UI (some nice touches like a persistent `Open With...' menu weren't there in Windows 98) quite productive -- especially once I have disabled Web View and installed cygwin.

        But yes: XP ... the fastest way to improve XP's interface is to move back to the Windows2000-style UI (which is there for backward compatibility). Incidentally, XP does not only have sucky UI -- even the graphics are no great shakes -- check out this critique [actsofvolition.com].
  • Nice to see someone of Havoc's 'cred' in the OSS movement knocking on the ridiculousness of most graphical OSS project's preferences.

    Though geeks like to tinker, there's something to be said about every application being consistent and keeping preferences, as much as possible, to a minimum and also to put them at the system level so they can easily be changed in a way that will modify all applications.

    Its nice to be able to sit down to a Windows or MacOS system and be able to start working right away, not worrying what crazy menu is bound to your middle mouse button in application XYZ vs application ABC or where the person who configured this PC hid some other menu you need just because the preference system allows him/her to move it whereever.

    I realize one size doesn't fit all and that geeks will always want to tinker, but I think if anyone is to take Linux/UNIX seriously on the desktop, there needs to be one clear Linux UI standard that is followed, and the rest must be relegated to 'alternatives'. This is similar to how Windows has its UI, but you can (if you really want) go swap it out with litestep or windowblinds or whatever.. The option is there, if you really really want it, but there's also a clear default UI system that companies and groups can standarize on.

  • by xxSOUL_EATERxx (549142) on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:31AM (#3382555)
    I've spent more time than I care to admit fooling around with GNOME and fvwm configurations, and I would have to say the most efficient setup for my Linux desktop would probably be to just set it to look and operate as much like MS Windows as possible.

    Why? Because I use Windows NT all day long at work, so that's what I'm used to. Like the qwerty keyboard, 'doze UI may not be the best, but is what most people are most familiar with. This is not a silly attempt to generate flames. I think there is some merit to just conceding the "look and feel" battle to M$ and concentrating on areas where there is a competitive advantage, like security, or just developing quality free software, with no privacy-transgressing EULAs.

    Of course, tinkering with window managers and desktop setups is still a fun pastime. :)


    • I 100% agree with this. The QWERTY example is a perfect analogy. We all need something similar to what we work with right now.

      I say EMBRACE and EXTEND. Copy Window's UI down to the pixel, get everyone to use *nix and then when M$ changes their UI again, everyone will say "why doesn't Windows work like my Unix box?"

      Think about the hardware equivalent of this: Compaq started creating IBM clones which was great, but eventually IBM tried to move to the PS/2 and Microchannel, yet everyone by that time was used to the open architecture and balked at IBMs proprietary play. The same could be done for software, but first you have to make a perfect copy.

      -Russ

  • It appears to me that a tiny percentage of all programmers know a bit about user interface, while the most of them don't have a clue. Programs that perform well but are hard to use because of an illogical interface aren't cool.

    Here's a hint: before you start making the software, ask your would-be users for screenshot mockups how they would like it. You can learn a lot that way.
  • by cygnusx (193092) on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:43AM (#3382576) Homepage
    The kernel and underlying OS frequently don't offer the features you'd need to make a UI competitive with OS X or Windows XP [...] I don't mean to criticize, just to suggest that we need a few people with dual expertise, or better communication between projects.
    The Windows NT team had an analogous issue: their video code was hog-slow until they brought Michael Abrash in to speed things up. What the kernel project perhaps needs is a person who's actually *interested* in a designed-from-bottom-up GUI. But given Linus' focus on 80 character terminals (not a bad thing either, imho) this is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
  • This article (and actually every article about UIs) reminds me of about ten years ago, when Borland developed the TurboVision UI (for people who don't know, it's a text-based GUI (windows, menus, dialogboxes et al) for TurboPascal and TurboC). For me, as a programmer, it was great! No more bothering about menus, windows, scrollbars, dialogboxes et al, back to core programming. If I needed a dialogbox, I fired up a resource editor (sorry, can't recall the name anymore, think it was made by a dutchman called Berend), put everything in the window and let it create a resource file. A simple recompile and the dialog was ready for use.

    After that, under OS/2, I had something similar but then under the OS/2 Presentation Manager. Then Unix... oh dear... I love the commandline, but sometimes I need to make something graphical and that was a huge job. Luckely I could escape most of it by making the output of the applications as in HTML so I didn't to worry about the drawing and formatting, only about how it should look like.

    It isn't until less than a year ago that I heard about the GDK/GTK/Glib library and actively made a program with it and found it... euh... handy. I also found a dialog-editor (glade) and yes, I like it. Except for the fact that it doesn't use resource-files (files in which you specify how a dialog should look like instead of coding it in C and hardcode every location in the code. Maybe it can be dnoe via a resource-file, I would be happy if somebody could tell me.

    Woops, got a little bit too enthousiastic. Just my 2 cents :-)

    Edwin
    • by JanneM (7445) on Sunday April 21 2002, @06:04AM (#3382605) Homepage
      Maybe libglade is what you are looking for. Glade generates an XML description of the UI which is used to generate the UI code. Libglade reads the XML file at runtime to generate the UI instead, so you can tweak that XML file without having to touch your code.

      /Janne
  • by bockman (104837) on Sunday April 21 2002, @05:49AM (#3382588)
    It could be that there exists in the world of ideas a 'Perfect GUI', the same as there could be a 'Perfect Car' or a 'Perfect OS'. And I understand that GNome developers wants to go after it.


    However, the Man-Machine Interface (MMI=GUI+CLI) is the front-ent between me and the computer. Better yet, is _the_ computer as I see it. And what I like about Gnome is that it is a reasonable good platform with a lot of components (panels, menus, applets) with which I can build _my own_ GUI. Which is surely not the best GUI. But is it the GUI which best fits my needs.


    I whish good luck to Gnome developers in their quest. I just hope they don't loose the component approach they had up to now. And don't lock users in _their_ idea iof the best GUI (while I agree that too many preferences are evil).

  • by nrosier (99582) on Sunday April 21 2002, @06:04AM (#3382607)
    Didn't the Gnome Usability study done by Sun cover a lot of the shortcomings of the current GUI? It showed that the GUI was indeed created by geeks for geeks.
    The report can be found here [gnome.org].
  • People submitting code into the general OSS code-base are recognised for the code they produce, not the code they leave out.

    This is one of the reasons why preferences are as common as dirt - you have to write code to make them work.

    It is also the same reason why we have dozens of sendmail/ftp/irc etc... replacements out there. We don't need them, there are plenty already, but coders feel they have the need to code rather than feeling the need to think about what they code.

  • by guttentag (313541) on Sunday April 21 2002, @06:33AM (#3382642) Journal
    I've been using graphical FTP clients on the Macintosh for years, starting with good old Fetch. As the number of files I transfer has gone up and my bandwidth has gone up, I've begun to realize that the clients I've been using (Fetch, Transmit, version tracker's flavor of the week) are just slow, crash-prone, money-grubbing, feature-weak PoS. So I put the running dog to sleep and resolved to deal with command-line FTP.

    In the last few weeks, my hosting co's ftp software has been randomly giving me errors that suggest it doesn't know how to list a directory, put or get a file. Not that I need any of those features anyway, so I did some research and ended up installing ncftp [ncftp.com] (Mac OS X installer pkg [versiontracker.com]). I realize ncftp's not a new program, but I am amazed.

    It has everything I've ever wanted in an FTP client: speed, easy-to-use "bookmarks" (no more dumping passwords into clear .netrc files or entrusting them to Apple's security-hole-prone Keychain [macosxhints.com]), status reports on transfers, and I can even use wildcards to up/download a whole mess of files at once without having to sift through ftp's man pages. Everything works intuitively, and I suspect there is much more I will discover just by using the tool.

    I guess that's what a great UI is -- one that you can use and learn without having to RTFM.

    (Before you reply in defense of the RTFM concept, I agree that there are types of software that should not be used until one has RTFM, but it doesn't hurt to give the FM a great UI.)

    • I agree, ncftp is probably one of the most *productive* ftp clients out there. Probably the only UI crib one can make about it is: they should've used a readline-or-similar library for autocomplete. The one they use now is too goofy for words.
  • Hrmm interesting (Score:3, Interesting)

    by I_redwolf (51890) on Sunday April 21 2002, @06:35AM (#3382646) Homepage Journal
    I've read many programmers views and opinions of UI. What they say and what they do are two different things. I mean, i'm about as qualified as any programmer to comment on UI but no matter what Havoc or anyone says about Gnome and it's usability I disagree terribly.

    1. Things are as usable and only usable when people can generally agree on operation or functionality. If only 10 people agree on usability no matter how smart you believe you are, it won't be usable. The most usable applications, cars, planes, clocks, or whatever got that way through the users being able to say, "I want this and I want that". Just because you don't think it's a good idea or it will slow down performance or whatever doesn't mean you should keep those ideas out or wait to act upon them, especially simple things. This is what I see on the Gnome usability list.

    2. There is no such thing as a beginner, intermediate or advanced user when it comes to usability. Sure, people need to become accustomed to a new interface but the interface should always be made so that a total newbie could walk by and get the hang of it in little to no time at all.

    3. Suns usability team created CDE; have you used CDE? Was it usable to you? Ok.. I won't talk about that anymore and no offense to the Usability guys I'm sure you know more about this than I do but CDE just was not a usable product.

    If you want usability in gnome I think you have to start with the basic shit. Like havoc said no one likes doing mundane work but until I'm able to drag something from Nautilus or GMC into my menu or for that matter edit my menu without being root Gnome is less usable.. It's the tiny things that count and I think that Gnome in general has neglected the tiny little things.

    Would you rather jump through your window to get out of your car or use a latch mechanism to open the door?
  • by rant-mode-on (512772) on Sunday April 21 2002, @06:37AM (#3382647) Homepage
    How on earth am I expected to come up with decent user interface? I'm a geek, I don't even have a decent human interface!
  • by cobar (57479) <maxwell@101freeway.com> on Sunday April 21 2002, @08:00AM (#3382770) Homepage
    Since mpt's (Matthew Thomas) website seems to be down, I'm mirroring his first 9 points here:
    There are another 5 points that he added today, but weren't in the google cache.

    If you're interested in his writings, please check his site after it comes back up from being slashdotted, as he clarifies some points that upset some people.

    "Why Free Software usability tends to suck"

    I've been having a discussion with someone from IBM about whether it's ever possible for for Free Software to have a nice human interface.

    In theory, I think it is possible. But in practice, the vast majority of open-source projects are also volunteer projects; and it seems that the use of volunteers to drive development inevitably leads the interface design to suck. The reasons are many and varied, and maybe one day I'll turn this into a long and heavily-referenced essay. But in the meantime, here's a summary.

    1. Dedicated volunteer interface designers appear to be much rarer than their paid counterparts -- and where they do exist, they tend to be less experienced (like yours truly).

    2. First corollary: Every contributor to the project tries to take part in the interface design, regardless of how little they know about the subject. And once you have more than one designer, you get inconsistency, both in vision and in detail. The quality of an interface design is inversely proportional to the number of designers.

    3. Second corollary: Even when dedicated interface designers are present, they are not heeded as much as they would be in professional projects, precisely because they're dedicated designers and don't have patches to implement their suggestions.

    4. Many hackers assume that whatever Microsoft or Apple do is good design, when this is frequently not the case. In imitating the designs of these companies, volunteer projects repeat their mistakes, and ensure that they can never have a better design than the proprietary alternatives.

    5. Volunteers hack on stuff which they are interested in, which usually means stuff which they are going to use themselves. Because they are hackers, they are power users, so the interface design ends up too complicated for most people to use.

    6. The converse also applies. Many of the little details which improve the interface -- like focusing the appropriate control when a window is opened, or fine-tuning error messages so that they are both helpful and grammatical -- are not exciting or satisfying to work on, so they get fixed slowly (if at all).

    7. As in a professional project, in a volunteer project there will be times when the contributors disagree on a design issue. Where contributors are paid to work on something, they have an incentive to carry on even if they disagree with the design. Where volunteers are involved, however, it's much more likely that the project maintainer will agree to add a user preference for the issue in question, in return for the continued efforts of that contributor. The number, obscurity, and triviality of such preferences ends up confusing ordinary users immensely, while everyone is penalized by the resulting bloat and reduced thoroughness of testing.

    8. For the same reason -- lack of monetary payment -- many contributors to a volunteer project want to be rewarded with their own fifteen pixels of fame in the interface. This often manifests itself in checkboxes or menu items for features which should be invisible.

    9. The practice of releasing early, releasing often frequently causes severe damage to the interface. When a feature is incomplete, buggy, or slow, people get used to the incompleteness, or introduce preferences to cope with the bugginess or slowness. Then when the feature is finished, people complain about the completeness or try to retain the preferences. Similarly, when something has an inefficient design, people get used to the inefficiency, and complain when it becomes efficient. As a result, more user preferences get added, making the interface worse.

    Where a project is heavily influenced by a company under commercial pressure to ship a usable product (such as Netscape, Eazel, or Ximian), you'd expect the interface to improve as a result. But in such projects so far, it would appear that the opposite has happened. I think this is partly because the companies involved aren't large enough to employ designers who are both smart and stubborn, and partly because the business model of the companies involves maximizing the revenue (rather than the user satisfaction) gained from the interface.
    • Why do geeks and especially graduate students insist on refering to themselves by their three initials, such as the article's author mpt (Matthew Thomas)? My theory is that they are vain and pretentious. To assume that THEY ALONE would be uniquely identified by some three letter abbreviation is quite an assumption of their self-importance..
  • KDE ain't bad (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Pedrito (94783) on Sunday April 21 2002, @09:04AM (#3382841) Homepage
    I've complained about Gnome quite a bit (and taken a lot of heat for it) on Slashdot. The last time I did, someone convinced me to give KDE a try, and I have to say, I was quite impressed with it.

    The user interface doesn't have to be like Windows, it just needs to be intuitive. I've been programming for 23 years, and frankly I find Gnome very counterintuitive. I just can't seem to get the hang of it.

    If they want a large audience of non-programmers using it, it's going to have to get significantly more intuitive.

    The first time I ran KDE, I was able to navigate around the different applications and OS tools, quite easily. Everything made sense and were in places that I could find easily.

    With Gnome, I frequently had trouble finding what I was looking for, not just in the OS, but in applications as well. The left and right mouse buttons always seemed to be backwards to what I was used to as well, though this is something that one could easily adapt to with use, but why do it that way in the first place?

    What Gnome needs is some real UI experts working on the interface. Your average programmer is pretty bad at UI design, in my experience. I used to be terrible, and I don't claim to be great, but with the help of an old co-worker, I improved significantly. Since then, I've read quite a bit about UI design, and I've become a UI critic, I suppose.

    I wish Gnome the best. I'd love to see Linux with Gnome or KDE on every desktop, but they both (and especially Gnome) still have a long way to go. If I had the free time, I'd love to contribute. Maybe when I win the lottery, I'll spend the rest of my life contributing to open source.
  • by dstone (191334) on Sunday April 21 2002, @09:28AM (#3382916) Homepage
    From the article: I don't have any genius definition of "good UI"; I'm not a UI expert.

    Super. I stopped reading right about there.
  • Abstract UIs (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Random Feature (84958) on Sunday April 21 2002, @11:11AM (#3383261) Homepage
    The real problem is age and how "applications" are taught in schools, the enterprise and classes.

    Schools teach children to use applications specifically. No one sits down and explains to them the concept of a file and actions that apply to a file (open, save, save as, print...) or editing (copy, cut, paste, etc.. )

    If the process of educating people in the realm of computer use included a more abstract view of computers and how they work, the average joe schmo wouldn't need to "relearn" every time a new UI design came out, they'd be able to reason through it.

    We moved our 8 year old daughter and 14 year old son from Windows to SuSE and Gnome, respectively. With the exception of not knowing the names of applications that do what she wants, she can get around just fine because we've taught her the basics, without being specific to an OS. She knows how to manipulate files and open applications, she understands that web browsers and can use IE, Netscape, opera or Galeon with equal ease.

    This ease of adaptation is partially due to commonlality of UI implementation across applications and platforms, and partially due to their education @ home, which focuses on exploration and understanding the computer rather than a specific application.

    Of course, if schools/enterprises did that, M$ would lose its edge because users would no longer be frightened to death when presented with a word processing app other than Word, or a browser other than IE.
  • by jeti (105266) on Sunday April 21 2002, @11:19AM (#3383285) Homepage
    IMO the UI of KDE is getting too complex (I know it better than Gnome). So the task is to clean it up, give useable defaults and simplify it. Especially the KDE-menu and the KontrolCenter should be cleaned up.

    But what should be removed? What is a good default? Let's ask the user. KDE could collect information on what is used and how the prefs are set, and send it back to the developers.

    I think noone would have a problem with that as long as: The info is anonymous, only sent with explicit consent, and it is stated clearly what information is sent.
  • by johnrpenner (40054) on Sunday April 21 2002, @11:26AM (#3383317) Homepage


    'Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
    but rather when there is nothing more to take away.'

    (Antoine de Saint-Exupery)

    You can increase the apparent simplicity and focus of an OS
    simply by consolidating five menubars into one.

    --| INTERFACE DESIGN > A SINGLE MENUBAR |-----

    >> WHAT? Give me the summary.

    A SINGLE MENUBAR AT THE TOP OF THE SCREEN that changes according to
    the current context (window) instead of a menubar for every window.

    Setting this as a User Default will improve Linux's ease-of-use.
    Placing a single Menubar along the top of the screen:

    1 - Makes it faster and easier to hit.
    (no mouse overshoot to slow things down)

    2 - Eliminates clutter in the interface.

    3 - Reduces ambiguity (and hence - user error).

    --| DISCUSSION |---

    >> LINUX MENUS WORK GREAT NOW.
    >> WHY SHOULD WE DO SO MUCH WORK TO CHANGE THE ACCEPTED DEFAULT?

    In programming, if you compute a static variable within a loop - it is
    highly innefficient - it slows down the loop. You optimize code by pulling
    all the computes you can out of the loop and processing externally.

    Interface design is the same. If a user has to click: A, B, C three hundred
    times a day - it would make him 3 times as efficient to collapse those three
    steps into a macro and execute with one keystroke. Making things less steps
    for users optimizes the UI just like computing static variables outside the
    loop optimizes code.

    Since Menus are one of the most frequently used items in an operating system,
    optimizing something small in this frequent behaviour equates to a Big savings
    for the user over time. Therefore getting the menus right is one of the most
    crucial and fundamental UI decisions that must be made by those implementing
    the OS.

    Linux currently imitates Windows' menubar implementation of putting a menubar
    in every window. UI studies show this is not the optimal way of implementing
    menus in an operating system. Linux can beat Windows in menubar GUI by providing
    the option of a single context-sensitive menubar. There are several good reasons
    for doing this:

    1 - TARGETING CONSTRAINT
    How easy it is to hit a target - virtual size.

    2 - CONSISTENT PLACEMENT
    How easy it is to remember "where" a target is.

    3 - SIMPLICITY KEEPING FOCUS
    Elimination of extraneous controls that are not
    relevant to the current task at hand.

    >> See the rest of this posting - Why Single Menubar [earthlink.net]

    best regads,
    john.

    • I've heard many such arguments before, but I can't help thinking that you're mixing up a good idea (simplify the menu system) with a particular implementation that you're stuck on (top-of-screen menus, a la MacOS). How about a single, context-sensitive menu accessed from a right-click with the mouse? No, wait, we've already got one of those. So, how about having an application menu and a context menu off a right-click, with subsequent right-clicks alternating between them? And so on...

      While I'm not necessarily advocating any of these ideas as "better" than the top-of-screen layout, they would appear, at least superficially, to have many of the same advantages you cite in your article: reduced clutter, easy to find (always where your mouse pointer is, some eye-catching animation to make it obvious when you click?), etc. Surely what is needed is a comparison between not just the status quo and a top-of-screen system, but between many different basic ideas, to see which are more intuitive and easy to use for the guy in front of the keyboard/mouse?