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The Python Cookbook

Posted by timothy on Wed Oct 09, 2002 09:00 AM
from the braised-snake dept.
Nice2Cats writes "Python is something of a programmer's dream and an author's nightmare. What started life as a scripting tool for the Amoeba operating system has matured into a full-blown programming language with such speed that every book seems to be outdated in a year or two. To make matters worse for publishers, the crew around Python's creator Guido van Rossum keeps adding higher-level constructs such as iterators with every new release, reducing reams of code to single-line idioms at half-year intervals. Because not everybody has been able to keep up -- RedHat 7.3 infamously still ships with version 1.5.2 as the default, while SuSE 8.0 is hanging in there with version 2.2 -- authors are forced to cover stone age variants as well as modern forms. Python is cross-platform (Unix/Linux, Mac, Microsoft), has two underlying languages (C for Python, Java for Jython) and works with various GUIs (Tkinter, wxWindows, Qt, GTK, curses, Swing). Given this breadth of material, the idea of writing that most fragmented form of a programming book, a 'Cookbook,' seems as crazy as, say, nailing a dead parrot to its perch." Read Nice2Cats's review below of The Python Cookbook to see how well O'Reilly deals with dead parrots.

Beautiful plumage.

O'Reilly, fortunately, has all kinds of experience with animals.

The Python Cookbook consists of seventeen chapters that contain between eight and twenty-six individual recipes. Chapters and recipes are roughly ordered by increasing complexity, length, and required background knowledge, starting with the simple "Swapping Values Without Using a Temporary Variable" and ending with the complete module "Parsing a String into a Date/Time Object Portably." The chapters are mostly organized by subject -- "Text," "Files," "Object-Orientated Programming," "User Interfaces" -- but also include "Python Shortcuts" and "System Administration." The background required varies: Whereas the chapter on "Text" starts off with Fred L. Drake reviewing the most basic string operations such as slicing and concatenation, Paul F. Dubois can only sketch the core concepts of lexing and parsing in "Programs About Programs."

This of course is a hallmark of all cookbooks, programming- or food-wise: Nobody will like everything, but everybody will like something. The worst fragmentation occurs, as expected, between examples of Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.2. Most recipes give preference to one version, and then point out how the problem could have been solved in the other version. This is more useful than the code that was written for all versions, because it gives a deeper insight into the changes that Python has gone through. The result is that after a few chapters, you start wondering why anybody in their right mind would keep using Python 1.5.2 instead of 2.2.* with its iterators, list comprehensions, new classes, and expanded module library.

Martelli and Ascher have done a good job balancing the different forms. Only one chapter struck me as lopsided: "System Administration", where ten of the sixteen recipes are Windows-only. Even though there is a good reason for this -- Microsoft's native administration tools just aren't like those provided with Unix -- the editors might want to rethink the selection of recipes in this chapter for future editions.

Generally helpful.

The "Python Cookbook" has helped me in three ways. First, I found quite a lot of the examples themselves, especially those in the chapters "Python Shortcuts" and "Object-Orientated Programming" useful for everyday work. Second, reading more than 500 pages of peer-reviewed and well-commented code gave me a greater feeling for common idioms and constructs that are rare in this clarity in wild-type code. However, the book is strongest when more general principles of "Pythonic" programming are discussed, for example when Martelli demonstrates the merits of the "Look Before You Leap," "Easier to Ask Forgiveness than Permission," and "Homogenize Different Cases" methods.

My favorite recipe is Sebastien Keim's "Implementing a Ring Buffer," where an object carries a class deep in its bowels, and changes into this class in a rather cool Dr.-Jekyll-to-Mr.-Hyde transformation on the fly. The one recipe I found downright evil was "Sending HTML Mail," which should have been implemented as "Turning HTML Mail into Plain Text" with a note on how people who send HTML mail are going to be the first against the wall when the revolution comes. The best quote in the book comes from Tim Peters: "We read Knuth so you don't have to" -- Python's promise of programming power for the people, expressed in (dare I say it) a nutshell.

Conclusion:

I can recommend the "Python Cookbook" wholeheartedly to anyone who has passed into the advanced stage of language learning and is willing to actually sit down and work through the code. Anybody who is looking for a deeper understanding of Python, solutions to common coding problems, or starting points for their own projects will also profit. This book should have RedHat customers hammering at the gates of Raleigh, demanding the power of iterators and list comprehensions that their SuSE counterparts already enjoy by default; it demonstrates the superiority of Python 2.2.* over 1.5.2 in great detail.

Because of this, however, my guess is that 2.2.* will quickly replace 1.5.2, turning large parts of this book into historical footnotes in two years at the latest. This is no fault of O'Reilly's, but rather a current fact of Python life. The editors have done a good job of nailing the parrot, and until this Pythonic Norwegian Blue does the inevitable backflip, it should give its owner much pleasure.


You can purchase The Python Cookbook from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

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  • by Darth RadaR (221648) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:04AM (#4416394) Journal
    The title "Python Cookbook" has gotta look weird to people bopping around Barnes & Noble who aren't in the know. :)
    • I was at a bookstore years ago and this old preacher-type guy came up to me and started saying how pleased he was to see a young guy like me interested in religion -

      I didn't have the heart to tell the guy exactly what "Linux Bible, the Gnu Testament" was about...

      (Then again, I probably do as much preaching about Linux as he does about God - maybe we should get it declared a religion and get tax-free status...)

      Cheers,
      Jim in Tokyo
  • by WIAKywbfatw (307557) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:06AM (#4416407) Journal
    And for those of you that can't get your hands on a python, the adder, asp, boa, cobra, diamondback, etc cookbooks are just as well packed with tasty recipes.
  • And here I was hoping for the recipe for crunchy frog.

    Kierthos
  • As Mrs Beeton [januarymagazine.com] might have written: First catch your python [lineone.net]

    Or, as Homer might add: "...mmm...python"

  • by qurob (543434) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:07AM (#4416415) Homepage

    Cornmeal Crusted Rattle Snake with Cactus-Corn Succotash

    Recipe courtesy Joey Altman, Copyright 2001

    2 1/2 pounds rattle snake, dead
    1 cup buttermilk
    1 cup cornmeal
    1 cup flour
    1 tablespoon salt
    1 tablespoon chile powder
    1 tablespoon garlic powder
    1 tablespoon paprika
    1 teaspoon cayenne pepper
    1 teaspoon ground cumin
    1 cup vegetable oil
    Cactus-Corn Succotash, recipe follows
    Using a sharp boning knife remove the meat from the snake by cutting down the back, just slightly to 1 side of the spine from the head to the rattle. Using the tip of the knife peel the meat from the ?rib cage?. Once you removed the 2 long strips of meat, lightly pound them with the back of the knife to tenderize them. Cut the strips of meat into 1-inch pieces and place in a bowl with the buttermilk. Mix to coat well. In a large bowl combine the cornmeal with the flour and the spices. Heat the oil in a large skillet on medium high heat. Dredge the snake pieces in the flour mixture and fry for 2 minutes or until golden brown and then transfer to a paper towel lined plate. Repeat until all the snake pieces are cooked. Serve with Cactus-Corn Succotash.

    Cactus-corn succotash:

    2 tablespoons olive oil
    1 cactus pad, thorns scraped off, cut into small dice
    2 ears corn, shucked
    1 red onion, peeled, sliced in rings, grilled with olive oil and chopped in small dice
    1 bunch scallions, grilled and chopped
    1 chayote squash, sliced 1/4-inch thick, grilled with olive oil and chopped in small dice
    1 tablespoon minced garlic
    2 tablespoons minced jalape?o
    1/2 cup diced red bell pepper
    4 tablespoons butter
    1 cup chicken stock
    1 cup diced, peeled and seeded tomatoes
    1/2 cup chopped cilantro
    Salt and pepper

    Grilling the vegetables first gives another great layer of flavor, however, it is not absolutely necessary. Just omit that step and cook the vegetable right in the pan. In a skillet on high heat saute the vegetables except the tomatoes in the olive oil for 2 minutes. Add the stock and butter and cook until mixture reduces by half. Add tomatoes and seasoning and serve with the warm snake ?nuggets? on top.

    Yield: 4 servings
    Prep Time: 30 minutes
    Cook Time: 10 minutes
    Difficulty: Medium

    • Gotta love the New-York-attorney-goes-to-the-dude-ranch sound of "Cactus-Corn Succotash". You find this sort of crap at upscale eateries in places like Aspen and Telluride. This recipe is proof that any mediocre ingredient can be dressed up enough to taste good. I've had cactus and rattlesnake. While both are edible, I'd rather have Cornmeal-crusted Amberjack with a Roasted Polenta Succotash any day.

  • I love python (Score:3, Insightful)

    by paRcat (50146) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:09AM (#4416424) Homepage
    There are those out there that hate any language that allows spaces to effect it's running...

    But Python just rocks. Throw pySQL, wxPython and Twisted into the mix, and you can have a full blown server with gui front-end that is just as stable as any other. I have a server that I wrote for wireless devices performing a few hundred SQL queries/changes and file writes per hour, and the speed is surprisingly very good for a language most people refer to as a 'script'.

    Not to mention, the tab requirement makes reading the code so easy. You just know where functions begin and end without having to deal with {'s and }'s.

  • Debian also has 2.2 (Score:3, Informative)

    by psgalbraith (200580) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:13AM (#4416445) Homepage
    RedHat 7.3 infamously still ships with version 1.5.2 as the default, while SuSE 8.0 is hanging in there with version 2.2

    Debian unstable also has 2.2 as the default python, although the stable release has 2.1. But with the huge number of packages which depend on it, it takes a while to migrate all of them. So testing still has 2.1.
  • Here's [oreilly.com] the answer to that one.


    Parrot is a new, dynamic programming language, intended to merge the indubitable strengths of the twin Open Source scripting giants, Perl and Python. Stemming from the Open Source conferences, and culminating in the unprecedented meeting of minds at the new ActiveState Technical Advisory Board, Parrot was conceived jointly by Larry Wall, the original creator of Perl, and Guido van Rossum, the inventor of Python. By uniting the unparalleled flexibility of Perl with the simplicity and maintainability of Python, Parrot is destined to become the premier application development language of the twenty-first century.
  • I have to ask (given my Python illiteracy), does Python have built-ins for such an operation? Or is this just "how to implement an old trick" to "get your feet wet" with Python?

    If my coffee is working correctly this morning, I'd assert that any language with an XOR-assign could accomplish this feat (with the added restriction that the vars be of the same size, or operations are performed iteratively on byte pointers).

    Below is chapter 1 of my new C cookbook:

    A ^= B;
    B ^= A;
    A ^= B;

    Short chapter.

  • Pythons? I heard they taste like chicken!
  • No Slashdot icon! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wiredog (43288) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:19AM (#4416473) Journal
    Something must be done! I request, nay, demand, that the Fearsome Slashdot Cabal develop a Python Icon immediately!

    Some sort of snake, perhaps...

    • Re:No Slashdot icon! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Sloppy (14984) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:55AM (#4416693) Homepage Journal
      It's not just a Slashdot thing, either. Even outside the scope of Slashdot, Python surprisingly doesn't seem to have a logo or mascot or anything. You would think that over the years, some artisitic person would have drawn a cute (Tux-like cute, if you know what I mean) snake or something, and everyone would have latched onto it. But it hasn't happened. Oh sure, I have seen some snakes here and there, but none of them have been widely adopted.

      If someone pulls it off, they might become famous. ;-)

    • Slashdot topics (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fm6 (162816) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @12:41PM (#4417735) Homepage Journal
      Slashdot icons are just designators for Slashdot topics [slashdot.org], and these desperately need an overhaul. There are topics for companies that no longer exist (Digital, Compaq, LinuxCare; Be should probably be renamed "BeOS"); topics that are extremely low volume and should really be folded into other topics (Comdex, E+, Englightenment), topics that are just plain redundant (Bugs, Linux Business), topics that we need only because they're part of a more general topic we don't have (we have America Online, but no ISP topic; topics for various Desktops, but no general Desktop topic; topics for specific Linux distros, but no Distro topic). And why on earth do we have ten specialized Apple topics?

      Rather than a new topic for Python, I'd rather see a Scripting topic. So, yeah, that means no cute Python icon, but it does put all the scripting issues in one place for people to select or ignore.

  • Perl comparisons (Score:3, Insightful)

    by goombah99 (560566) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:21AM (#4416484)
    What I would like to have would be a merger of the perl and python cook books. I know my own understanding of perl exploded when I discovered the perl cookbook. I am now convinced that understanding a languages idioms is the secret to fluency.

    It would be very instructive to me to be able to see how the two languages handle each other's idioms. I have my brain wrapped around perl and when I try to think in python I get frustrated cause things I think should be simple aren't. Of course the reverse would be true if I knew python better (I guess).

    At present I think my python programming is too formal, like someone who just learned say french trying to speak it and saying "To The beloved person who bore me onto this earth; please to be informed that I have translocated my corpus into the domicale that lies here" instead of just saying "mom, I'm home".

    • Check out Perl to Python Migration [barnesandnoble.com] by Martin Brown. Sure, it isn't O'Reilly, and it doesn't have "cookbook" in the title, but I've found it a good start for the type of thing you are asking about.
      • Have not read that one. However I have seen similar concepts on line like "python for perl programmers." And generally these are not filled with examples of pithy worked translations. THe cook book contains the true idioms of a language hence i'd like to see a true cookbook-cookbook cookoff.

        for example, consider an indexed sort. in both perl and python you could do this by writing a loop to add an index field to each value then sort it then loop to gather the ordered indices. The only difference is the loops and indexing and sorting would have different grammar.

        But in perl one would probably instead do a map-sort-map idiom on a single line operation. And in python I suspect there is probably some simmilar idiom using iterators.

        its the idioms, not the formal grmammar crossovers that are important to learning to learning a new language.

      • In my own experience, I've experienced the opposite. I was pretty good at procedural programming, but the OO stuff always seemed rather intimidating.

        Then a friend twisted my arm and made me learn Python, and it wasn't necessarily that Python does OO well, but that it makes it really quick and easy to experiment. Doing so gave me sufficient understanding to go back into Perl and figure out how packages and modules and such work.
    • by mcc (14761) <amcclure@purdue.edu> on Wednesday October 09 2002, @10:18AM (#4416843) Homepage
      Try this site [python.net].. it's basically a "phrasebook" that shows common tasks being done in both perl and python. It's a great introduction to the language, and it helps a lot in terms of getting the python-idiom-y ways to do lots of commonthings embedded into your head.

      It isn't *very* long, and doesn't go too deep, and the formatting's not great, but it's a quick read, and if it doesn't fit your needs there's always that book Snowbike recommended.

      At present I think my python programming is too formal

      The catch about the funkiness of python's syntax is not that it demands formalism; it's just that it demands you will do only one thing per line. It's kind of hard to get yourself thinking this way, and it's really irritating to write code this way (i never write python without pining for a ?: construct, a single-line version of "except", or a less-crippled lambda construct).

      The thing is, though, that obeying python's rule basically comes down to seperating each expression into unnecessary variables, and mercilessly abstracting all those potentially-repeated 'common tasks' that somehow always seem to wind up taking five lines in python into functions. However, i find when i write perl, most of the time i spend revising code is spent going back and doing the above two things-- splitting overly-complex expressions into subvariables, pulling out bits of code and making them subexpressions. Python just forces you to do these things ahead of time, and you benefit greatly in the long run. (Whether that's worth all the irritation, though, i don't know :))
          • Thanks! You just made me laugh out loud, and that's always fun.

            Having to use a debugger at all is a sign that the code doesn't clearly express what it's going to do.

            No, it's a sign that the code isn't doing what you want it to do. Sometimes that's due to a flaw in your code. Sometimes it might even be due to something else, like an API call that doesn't do what you expect, or even an API call that is downright buggy.

            It's as silly to say that one should never need a debugger, as to say that one cannot do without a debugger.

            a debugger that can't even tell you which expression is about to be evaluated

            So, when you have a project on a platform with primitive development tools, what do you do? Refuse to work on the project?

            Tell me, what development tools do you use? They must be wonderful. Maybe I should use them.

            steveha
  • by nob (244898) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:23AM (#4416496) Homepage
    The perfect companion piece to Bake a Snake [amazon.com].
  • 2.2 for RedHat (Score:5, Informative)

    by redfenix (456698) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:29AM (#4416530)
    This book should have RedHat customers hammering at the gates of Raleigh, demanding the power of iterators and list comprehensions that their SuSE counterparts already enjoy by default; it demonstrates the superiority of Python 2.2.* over 1.5.2 in great detail.

    Of course, installing a new version of Python in RedHat is pretty painless, download the rpm and install it. You can find them here. [python.org]
    • RedHat 8.0 installs Python 2.2.1 by default.
      • Ah, but that was never the issue.

        The issue is that third-party packages depend on particular versions of Python, and you thus can't change the default version of Python between point releases.

        That is, when 7.0 was released, Python 1.5.2 was the clear choice, given how little Python 2.x code existed at that point. So for the entire 7.x series, Red Hat needed to stick with Python 1.5.x as the default version. Now with the 8.x series, Python 2.2.x is the default version.

        This is Red Hat's policy, and is quite sensible when you think about their userbase. They did a similar thing with Sendmail: 7.x used 8.11.x, even though 8.12 came out in the middle of the 7.x series, 7.2 and 7.3 both stuck with 8.11, because there were substantial changes with 8.12 (like no longer requiring that everything run as root...)

        The goal is to make transitions within a major release as painless as possible, not only for us dumb sysadmins but also for third-party software developers: anything built against 7.0 should ideally run against 7.3 without so much as a recompile. Less ideally, you shouldn't have to port it but just rebuild it.
  • Try Ruby! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Hornsby (63501) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:33AM (#4416568) Homepage
    I used to code in Python, and now I use Ruby in it's place. I've found it to be just as readable but more terse. It's also extremely consistent in the way that everything is an object. You can say things like

    5.times {|n| puts n}

    and all kinds of other crazy things. I'm not saying it's better than Python(not trying to start a flame war). I'm just saying to try it and see if you like it.
    • I certainly like Ruby, but I can't wait until parrot gets evolved enough so that Ruby and Python (and of course Perl) can all interoperate (and perform better to boot). Perl has absolutely huge collections of modules, but when you move to Python you give up some of them (Python has many equivalents, but not all). Moving to Ruby you give up even more. Why? We are triplicating our work. Everybody should compile to parrot.

      Compare Jython, which allows Python to use Java classes (and JRuby does the same for Ruby, but isn't as far along). This is a pretty powerful combination, but it suffers from the problem that Java isn't free software (free work-a-likes are slowly emerging, but aren't feature complete).

      I really think people should get excited about parrot. It has the potential to compete as a 100% open source solution with .net and java.
      • Re:Try Ruby! (Score:4, Informative)

        by Hornsby (63501) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @12:01PM (#4417472) Homepage
        The "." is needed because 5 is an object of type Fixnum. times is a method available to Fixnum objects. I used that example to demonstrate that EVERYTHING in Ruby is an object. For instance, you can do the following:

        "hello world".upcase
        "HELLO WORLD"

        Not to mention method cascading

        "hello world".upcase.reverse
        "DLROW OLLEH"

        Once you get used to having these features, it's hard to go back(to Perl that is...). There are a number of other very nice features as well. Iterators for example(which Perl 6 is going to include).

        list = ["foo", "bar", "car"]
        list.each do |elem|
        # do something with elem
        end

        For a quick walkthrough of the languages features, go here: http://rubycentral.com/book/intro.html

        I do know when I see a language which does not have an intuitive syntax or grammar.

        And what language does? Any new language requires an adjustment period. The important thing is consistency once you get over the initial learning curve. Lisp doesn't necessarily have an intuitive syntax either; however, few would argue that it's not a powerful language. The consistency of having everything represented as a list makes it's syntax extremely simple.
  • The Cookbook Online (Score:5, Informative)

    by Corvus (27991) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:36AM (#4416586) Homepage
    The source material for this book came from Activestate's online Python Cookbook [activestate.com]. There's many more recipes there now, and those in the book may have been edited from their original state. In other words, the book is worth having.
  • Fun read too! (Score:4, Informative)

    by occam (20826) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:43AM (#4416617)
    I highly recommend the Python Cookbook as well. I agree with Nice2Cats that the 1.5.2 examples are a little jarring when 2.2 python is available.

    My biggest surprise is that the book is enjoyable to read. For some reason, I do not enjoy O'Reilly books as much as most programmers do, but this one is an utter delight. As someone just learning python but with plenty of programming languages and experience, I find this book delightful to read. The authors share their idioms, standard practices, and the discussion of many examples is highly instructive about the various ways to code the problem. By the end, you learn some of the subtleties of python programming from a pair of experts using polished code from a variety of gifted programmers.

    I have already used some of the code, and the book got me reading some other python books as well to modify Python Cookbook examples.

    Delightful book.
  • Of course, this is a reference to the classic Monty Python skit "The dead Parrot", but I have to say the word association made me shudder...

    "How to cook a delicious meal for two with dead pythons and parrots"... *ugh!* ;)

    And yes, this is firmly tongue in cheek.
  • by Cool E (125442) <elliotNO@SPAMbentlogic.net> on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:57AM (#4416709) Homepage
    Red Hat Linux 7.3 shipped with python2.2 as well as 1.5.2. Python2.2 in 7.3 was not the default python interpreter because most code at the time was written with python1.5 in mind. Red Hat Linux 8.0 shipped with python2.2 as default.
  • by Torgo's Pizza (547926) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @10:37AM (#4416951) Homepage Journal
    Read Nice2Cats's review below of The Python Cookbook to see how well O'Reilly deals with dead parrots.

    No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!

  • by Bouncings (55215) <ken@ken k i n d e r.com> on Wednesday October 09 2002, @10:47AM (#4417019) Homepage
    Actually, the rapid change in the language is pretty new. For the longest time, 1.5.x was stable, and years before 1.4.x was mostly the same. Then, 1.6 happened. Python hit some kind of critical mass where Guido decided to more or less open the flood gates of third party suggestions (called PEP's in Pythonlore). Another key factor was the rapid increase of XML libraries and concerns, as well as other quickly changing technologies.

    The author of this article doesn't mention it, but many Python programmers are upset with the rapid changes in the language, and it is very contrary to Python's history and philosophy. It looks like for now though, Python is slowing back down after implementing a new system of object orientation that really implements each variable/function/whatnot as an object. 2.2, hopefully, is here to stay for a while.

    • Re:asdf (Score:4, Informative)

      by Phoukka (83589) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @09:26AM (#4416511)
      Much more to the point, Red Hat 7.3 has 1.5.2 as "python", but has 2.1 (IIRC) as "python2". And Red Hat 8 has 2.2.1 as its "python". And, as you said, it is eminently possible to download and compile the latest version, though you do have to be careful that you link in 2.2.x as "python2" rather than "python" on Red Hat 7.3, or many of the system apps break (up2date comes to mind...).
    • Or $24.50 from www.bookpool.com, which is almost always better than other online bookstores, although I'm not sure how it does once shipping is factored in.
    • Get it from Amazon for [$3.99 cheaper]

      And fund enforcement of a patent that should never have been granted. If you want to preserve balance in the Force, you have to give to EFF every time you give to a company that employs "evil" practices with respect to statutory monopolies. That's why I don't buy more than $65 a year from Disney, Time Warner, Universal, or the other big [riaa.org] nine [mpaa.org] copyright companies, and that's also why I don't buy from Amazon or use Unisys products.

    • Oh, blow it out your arse. Python is an object-oriented procedural language with some functional aspects thrown in for good measure. Python was never trying to be Lisp. And thank Guido for that!

    • HTML email is not just for spammers.

      No; it's also for people who want me to want a half hour to get my mail over my modem, so I can get the exact same message but with lots of HTML tags. (And invariablly lots of HTML tags - it never bears any resemblence to clean hand-written HTML.)

      The ability to send HTML forms to employees is a boon among other benefits.

      And what happens when you need to make a change to that form? Why not just stick it your own private webspace?

      Maybe you've never shared the joy of sending an HTML birthday card to your child or parent.

      Ah, yes; the wonderous feeling of "you crossed my mind, but I couldn't be bothered to walk to the store for a _real_ birthday card".

      It's a little more valid, but it's still something that can be done via web.

      The ability to communicate with the richness of HTML expression

      To be or not to be; that is the question. Whether 'tis greater to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortunes, or by dying, end them. . . .

      I fail to see how this could be made richer by adding HTML. In general, just straight plain text is an extraordinarily powerful medium for communication. Frequently, HTML seems to be used as a means to doodle on the email, rather then add any information or emotional empact.
    • by Da VinMan (7669) on Wednesday October 09 2002, @01:28PM (#4418186)
      Aside from the point about lack of declaration of variables, you're points against Python all reduce down to syntax issues.

      It's a good thing you posted AC. I wouldn't want to take credit for that dreck either.

      Oh, and if Python were only two years old, then I wouldn't have been able to do the Python project I did for a client when I did.

      Have you even used Python? I didn't think so. I guess that if you want to be cynical and condescending about a language just because you're a self-appointed language guru, then please go ahead. But I think we would all prefer that you keep your opinion under wraps until it is informed and rational.