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Programming IT Technology

East vs. West: Culture and Distributed Development 486

Posted by michael from the sayonara dept.
CowboyRobot writes "ACM's Queue has an article entitled, Culture Surprises in Remote Software Development Teams that reviews differences in cultures and explores the impact they have on distributed software development teams. From the article: "In Western societies, decisions are made on the basis of input from those involved. In cultures with greater hierarchies, group members assume an authority will decide and they are only to enact the decision." Some stereotypes and some common sense, but I recognized myself in the descriptions of the 'typical American'."
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East vs. West: Culture and Distributed Development More

East vs. West: Culture and Distributed Development

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  • Where Does Europe Fit In This? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by tealover ( 187148 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:33PM (#8124390)
    It's amusing to see everyone assume 'American' when mentioning the West. Has Europe moved into another ideological sphere that separates them from the rest of the world, and if so what is it?

    • Re:Where Does Europe Fit In This? (Score:5, Funny)

      by eggoeater ( 704775 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:42PM (#8124485) Journal
      Has Europe moved into another ideological sphere that separates them from the rest of the world, and if so what is it?
      Yes, it's called Europe.

    • Has Europe moved into another ideological sphere that separates them from the rest of the world, and if so what is it?

      Yes. Europe is 'Old West', and therefore considered irrelevant by some. America, on the other hand, is 'Nouveau West', which many Old Westerners consider rather crass, and look down their noses at.

      • Re:Where Does Europe Fit In This? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Frymaster ( 171343 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:48PM (#8124555) Homepage Journal
        i work for a company where:

        • the coders are in canada
        • management is in the (southern) united states
        • the client is in ireland
        • everything runs out of london, england

        and i can say that the single biggest barrier to communication is... the accents. imagine a conference call with ali g. and boss hogg. that's what my day is like...

        • I think I used to contract for your company.

          Wait 'til you have a conversation w/Greenock.

          Zounds.

          Americans and Britons, two peoples separated by a common tongue.

          John.
        • >> the accents. imagine a conference call with ali g. and boss hogg. that's what my day is like...

          Yeah, and it gets worse when there's line noise on the conference bridge, and hte remote site drops off every 2 minutes.

          I talk to Mumbai daily....This is my hell.

          wbs.
        • Sounds like a new take on the old chestnut; I'm certain someone will make it fit - have a deadline and whatnot.

          Heaven is a place where:
          -- The lovers are Italian
          -- The cooks are French
          -- The mechanics are German
          -- The police are English
          -- The government is run by the Swiss

          Hell is a place where:
          -- The lovers are Swiss
          -- The cooks are English
          -- The mechanics are French
          -- The police are German
          -- The government is run
          • This is the way I heard it:

            Heaven is a place where:
            -- The lovers are Italian
            -- The cooks are French
            -- The mechanics are German
            -- The police are English
            -- The government is run by the Swiss
            -- The tourists are American.

            Hell is a place where:
            -- The lovers are Swiss
            -- The cooks are English
            -- The mechanics are French
            -- The police are German
            -- The government is run by the Italians
            -- The tourists are American.

    • Who cares, the point is that the guy is American so he is talking about the country he is from. Why is it every time someone mentions 'the west' and America every European jumps up and say you see, American are so self centered thinking they are the west. Seems to me Europeans have a confidence problem. Also last time I checked you're on the same fricken land mass 'the east' is on.
    • Half of Europe has. It's called alternatively 'old Europe', 'France', or 'having a different opinion'.
    • Time in general has different values and meanings in different cultures. Time is spent on accomplishing tasks in individualistic countries, and on building relationships in more collectivist countries. Americans are seen to start meetings too abruptly by Europeans, and Americans find that Europeans dawdle in idle chat instead of "getting down to business."

      Surely this is because the Europeans have had lunch, and are winding down for the day ,-}

      Most of the article presents interesting concepts, but really.

    • Re:Where Does Europe Fit In This? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Matthias Wiesmann ( 221411 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:49PM (#8124560) Homepage Journal
      Actually, in the article the divisions are not simply East vs West. The authors highlight many difference between people from Europe (they give example with German and French people) from people from the US. As usual, the slashdot title is misleading.

      I must say that the article does not surprise me, as many of the things they mention I have observed myself (including the French love for object-orientation).

    • Re:Where Does Europe Fit In This? (Score:5, Funny)

      by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:54PM (#8124626) Journal
      Has Europe moved into another ideological sphere that separates them from the rest of the world,

      Yes.

      and if so what is it?

      Scientists are still trying to determine that.

      But fear not. NASA will be landing a rover ouside of Toulouse this fall.

    • Well, if you take the proper definition of "East" and "West" as being defined in relation to the Greenwich meridian then most of Europe is indeed Eastern. Spain, Portugal, Ireland, quite a lot of France and most of the UK are the only bits that can properly be described as western.

      I'm playing Devil's advocate to an extent, but when did the term "Western" get reassigned to cover North America (but not necessarily Central or South America), Europe (including large chunks of Europe East of Greenwich) and some

  • Which East? Which West? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by peterb ( 13831 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:33PM (#8124392) Homepage Journal
    When I first started reading the article, I figured they were talking about New York versus California. I've worked on bi-coastal projects, and the cultural differences in how things get decided (and even coding styles) are palpable.

    • Re:Which East? Which West? (Score:4, Funny)

      by awol ( 98751 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:56PM (#8124640) Journal

      When I first started reading the article, I figured they were talking about New York versus California.

      Never a truer word spoken about cultural differences.

    • Re:Which East? Which West? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Dun Malg ( 230075 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:57PM (#8124658) Homepage
      When I first started reading the article, I figured they were talking about New York versus California. I've worked on bi-coastal projects, and the cultural differences in how things get decided (and even coding styles) are palpable.

      When bell atlantic combined with GTE to become verizon, the powerrs-that-be decided to make bell atlantic the "management" and replaced all the west coast GTE exec positions with BA people. The stodgy east coast guys were infuriated by the laid-back california work style, so they installed GPS transponders on all trucks and instituted random monitoring. Now if you stop to take a crap, they'll page you and demand to know what you're doing at a [gas station/restaurant/whatever] for more than a couple minutes. It's insane.

    • Alas, I made the same assumption. Mind you, I'm brazilian and I have never worked in the USA.
    • When I first started reading the article, I figured they were talking about New York versus California.

      Once again, leaving out my native Chicago and the rest of the midwest. *sigh* We don't get no respect. There's more than cornfields between the Hudson and Vegas, folks!

  • A Nice Way of Saying (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Rayonic ( 462789 )
    Isn't this article just a nice way of saying that those in "Eastern" cultures can't think for themselves? That they're predisposed to follow orders, and are unsuitable participants in even a quasi-democratic system?

    I'd imagine that some east-Asian Slashdotters might take issue with this.

    • Re:A Nice Way of Saying (Score:5, Insightful)

      by xenocide2 ( 231786 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:43PM (#8124501) Homepage
      Maybe you should be offended that it implies that "Western" cultures are full of people who are argumentitive, subversive and prone to waste time questioning decisions.

      I'd imagine you'd take offense at this, even though it fits your post to a tee.

      • Re:A Nice Way of Saying (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mwood ( 25379 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:50PM (#8124587)
        I think you two have just described, with reasonable accuracy, the way that many people of East and West view one another's cultures.

        It extends far beyond IT. I recall an article on culture clashes in some other business. The big boss (from Japan) felt disrespected when his American subordinates questioned his orders; the Americans felt disrespected that the boss wasn't listening to their concerns. It can be counterproductive and even dangerous to assume that "everybody who is decent does everything the same way I was taught." And the conflicts tend to come in areas which we are least likely to consider as questionable.

        • Re:A Nice Way of Saying (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:14PM (#8124833) Journal
          It can be counterproductive and even dangerous to assume that "everybody who is decent does everything the same way I was taught."

          This is a problem in software design in general. In my years of debating my view of the non-merits of OOP, I realize that people tend to assume that others think (process information) the same way they themselves do. When others don't "get" how one thinks about something, one tends to assume the other person is ignorant, misguided, or not as smart. Software design is more related to psychology than to math (assuming machine performance is not the primary cost factor). There is no standard method of communicating "head models" to one another, so it often ends up in arguments and paradigm battles where everyone involved is confused and bewildered by their inability to convey their viewpoint.

          It is far easier to describe what you want software to do than how to best organize it for grokkability and long-term maintenance.

        • Decisions (Score:5, Insightful)

          by nuggz ( 69912 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:29PM (#8124965) Homepage
          I think this comes from decision making.
          In my experience there are two ways.
          Western (Canada/US), get an idea, get some information, quicikly make a decision. Hopefully if it is wrong, someone points out the mistake before it gets too big.

          Eastern (Japan), get a lot of information, make a good well documented decision. Pointing out mistakes means you think that their work in making the decision is wrong, likely you haven't done the same investigation.

          When everyone makes off the cuff decisions, there is value to second guessing.
          When someone takes a lot of time and energy to make the right decision, it is insulting to be constantly second guessed.

          • Re:Decisions (Score:3, Insightful)

            by BigBadBri ( 595126 )
            When I worked for a large US company (head office in St Paul, anyone?) and pointed out elementary mistakes in projects that had been severely over-engineered (in the sense of having too many engineers involved), I was universally ostracised, since the average cost of getting me involved was about 100K per project.

            The things did work properly after I'd put the idiots straight, but I wasn't a popular man among the non-technical management.

            My point is that you can have a bunch of idiots researching a project i

    • Re:A Nice Way of Saying (Score:4, Interesting)

      by pe1rxq ( 141710 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:46PM (#8124534) Homepage Journal
      Depends on what side you are and how you see yourself.
      If you read the article thouroughly you will notice that it talks mainly about how different cultures see each other...
      People from the East will see Americans as rude while the Americans themself find it normall to argue with an superiour.
      On the other side the Americans will see the Easteners as sheepish for not arguing in public. It says nothing about wheter the discussion actually takes place, just about were and with whom (private or whole world).

      Jeroen
    • Maybe they are just drones... but who says the western way is better??? The easterners don't seem to mind their way. And aren't there a whole lot more of them.
    • Eastern "Cultures" can't think for themselves? Don't you mean "individuals"?

      I think the point of the article is that in Eastern work-groups , individuals who are not decision makers think that it's not their place to think for themself, in the context of the group. However, when those individuals get promoted, they do what the position requires of them, namely thinking and making decisions.

      Have you ever sat in on a western business meeting? It's remarkably similar...

      • Have you ever sat in on a western business meeting? It's remarkably similar...

        No it's not. I'm a "Western" worker, and although I don't know too much about Eastern working cultures, I have realised the similarities are there in some cases. They are arrived at by different means though.

        As you said, people in the East who are not decision makers think that it's not there place to think for themselves and speak up when they hear something not quite right to them. People in the West, from my perspectiv

    • No it isn't... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sterno ( 16320 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @02:12PM (#8125531) Homepage
      It's simply stating the cultural differences that do exist. There are advantages and disadvantages to the approaches innate in each culture. It would seem that the American culture is better suited to innovation and creativity, but that other cultures are better suited to precision and perfection. Both are important in the development of technology.

      This didn't say they cannot think for themselves, rather that they defer to authority, and in many situations, that's a good thing. Conversely it seems to suggest that Americans don't have much appreciation for structure, heirarchy and procedure, and that might explain why some software is as flaky as it is even if it is innovative.

  • This is not news (Score:5, Insightful)

    by KingOfBLASH ( 620432 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:37PM (#8124424) Journal
    The difference between east and west culture and the ramifications for the world have been in the news for a long time. For instance, the traditional religions in Asia have absolutely no problems with cloning or experimentation on embryos (which is basically verboten in western countries), so the majority of work in that field is in China or other countries which accept the future for what it is. The global marketplace is shrinking, and as we become more and more interconnected cultural differences will no doubt become more and more of an issue.
    • Work on embryos is verboten in the United States. People in Europe don't have as many problems with it as Americans. The root of it is religious, and there's large differences between the United States and Europe WRT religion.
      • Yeah, it's just cloning; it's not like you were talking about GM foods or something. :-)

        (Interesting: in the U.S. it's wrong to make things that are identical to other things, but okay to make things that are new and different; in Europe it's just the opposite. Hmmm.)

        • Re:This is not news (Score:2, Informative)

          by iserlohn ( 49556 )
          The concern is not over new and different things, but rather with safety and control. How can we prove that GM foods do not have effects on humans or on the environment? Once we plant them, GM plants are prone to a variety of interaction with the environment, some of these interaction may trigger a exchange of genetic material. We cannot control it, so we try to be cautious.

          Opposition to embryonic research on the other had is generally tied to moral and religious arguments. It's like comparing apples to o

    • Clone wars (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Iowaguy ( 621828 )
      The issue is more complex than this. You break down a broader philisophical notion of: When does life begin and how valuable is it? into an only religious context. For some discussions, this is fine since religion is one of the few feilds that societies seem comfortable in discussing morality. However, this issue goes further than this.

      The West has a cultural memory of WWII. Part of this legacy is the idea of Eugenics, championed by Those Guys Who Lost. They did some of the original work on cloning, and s
  • I would have expected some information about cultural norms in India in an article about cross-cultural technology projects. There was too little mention of China as well (if any? the article seems to be slashdotted now hmmf).

  • agreed... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by andy55 ( 743992 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:38PM (#8124443) Homepage
    In cultures with greater hierarchies, group members assume an authority will decide and they are only to enact the decision." Some stereotypes and some common sense, but I recognized myself in the descriptions of the 'typical American'."

    Agreed. This is consistent the projection that not-so mind/cognative-intensive software work will continue to go overseas while the R&D/high-cognative software related work stays here.

    I personally don't feel much pity for the M$ visual basic ppl (ie, mega-corp software cogs) who whine about their job going overseas (let alone the gov't interfereing legistation to support that ideal).

    • Re:agreed... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )
      Agreed. This is consistent the projection that not-so mind/cognative-intensive software work will continue to go overseas while the R&D/high-cognative software related work stays here....I personally don't feel much pity for the M$ visual basic ppl (ie, mega-corp software cogs) who whine about their job going overseas (let alone the gov't interfereing legistation to support that ideal).

      While that may be partly true, it affects *everyone* in IT just about because everyone tries to get into "high-leve

  • The East has some good ways.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by millahtime ( 710421 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:40PM (#8124455) Homepage Journal
    "...At the end of the videoconference, the Americans immediately disconnected the call. The French and Germans continued for another five minutes wishing a departing French teammate well in his retirement, and reminiscing about good times. The Europeans viewed the American behavior as rude and insensitive. The Americans viewed time as money, focusing on the cost of the videoconference. In other countries, entire meetings are devoted to establishing relationships, without conducting the core of the task at all."

    Building relationships is a strong thing. Time is money but with a good repor you can get a lot more done easily. This is a time and money saver too. Just not as easily trackable of one. And not in the short term but over the long haul of a project. It especially great if the project is going to last severa years.

  • Cultural cost impact (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Uma Thurman ( 623807 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:40PM (#8124457) Homepage Journal
    These cultural differences aren't exactly minor, and I think they can have a real impact on how teams work together. I've worked in multicultural teams, and the way the team is built into a unit is by getting to know the individuals over time. This process happens much more easily when everyone is in the same team room working together.

    Something that many companies don't seem to consider when they send jobs to other countries, or split the work between different teams in different countries is that without the face to face interaction it's much harder to get to know the other people. These cultural problems would show up in reduced productivity. Rather than being worked out and adjusted for, cultural differences would have a real chance of becoming a serious issue. It might look tempting to companies to send work out to cheaper countries, but the costs can be accrued in other ways than in just salaries.
    • Other things that companies don't consider is having groups not only over several countries but a group where part of it is in Detroit, Washington, Seattle and St. Louis has a hard time working together too. There are cultural differences and even a limited amout of time to telecon to discuss teh issues. This is not just a multicountry problem but one also internal to the US.
    • Good point. This is one of the issues facing my employer. The temporary L1 visa holders brought in by the ofshore staffing firm WIPRO tend to be very quiet and not speak up in meetings. I'm not sure if it is due to a lack of confidence, r some perceived language skills missing. In any case, one of the full time workers commented that he likes workign with those of us that live over on this side of the ocean because he isn't afraid to point out mistakes, or show us where /when we are wrong.

      jason

    • Re:Cultural cost impact (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Skyshadow ( 508 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:43PM (#8125151) Homepage
      These cultural problems would show up in reduced productivity. Rather than being worked out and adjusted for, cultural differences would have a real chance of becoming a serious issue.

      The sort of problems that a multicultural development effort can cause were laid out for me at my last job -- we were a startup IP conferencing company. Roughly half the company, including the upper management and most of the developers, had come over from China within the last 2-3 years. The other half, the sales guys, marketing, QA and a release engineer (me) were all from the US.

      To sum it up, it was absolutely intolerable.

      First, there were essentially two offices, one speaking chinese and the other speaking english, which only interacted when forced to. You never realize how much you rely on small conversations, overheard bits of info and personal relationships until they're denied to you. Further, the company made zero effort to take down this language barrier.

      Then there were the cultural problems. The Chinese work ethic (at least in that office) stressed that your contribution to the company was displayed by the number of hours you worked in any given week. So, the chinese half of the office would come in and "pace themselves" -- take long lunches (1.5+ hours, usually), eat dinner on the job, have their families stop after school, etc. Meanwhile, the Americans wanted to finish up their work and get home. I would often find myself with nothing to do but stuck at work for fear that the CEO wouldn't see me there during his nightly 7 PM rounds.

      Worse than that were the not-so-obvious things, cultural problems that took time to become obvious. For example, one time diring my first month at the company, I traced an install bug to a certain developer's code (had my QA hat on that day). I mentioned it in a code review meeting, and got a response that was basically a chilly "I'm certain you are mistaken" -- a while afterwords it was pointed out to me that I'd embarressed him by pointing out the flaws in his code in front of the other developers. Too late, I'd made an enemy.

      Anyhow, it was a horrible experience. Because the management apparently didn't think the cultural problems were worthy of their notice, the problems festered and grew, and in an amazingly short time the office balkanized into two camps which *hated* each other. Eventally, we stopped talking about the product and spent all our time dodging out of work and bitching about the CEO's obvious hiring of his mistress, the fact that the core code of our product was stolen from the lead developer's previous company and generally how much we hated the company but were afraid to leave (this was in the Deepest Darkest days of the recession).

      Of course, the company tanked -- there's just no way it could have succeeded. It was the only time in my life I've been happy to be laid off. Looking back, I count this as a valuable lesson in the importance of morale and maintaining a cohesive team structure...

  • Why you gots ta be hatin'? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Complicity ( 30481 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:40PM (#8124463)
    Hasn't the tragedy of Tupac and Biggie taught the world anything? Eastside vs. Westside accomplishes nothing, homies!

    Peace out!

    Word...

  • Company Policy also matters. (Score:4, Informative)

    by SenseiLeNoir ( 699164 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:45PM (#8124526)
    We have taken over a software project for the UK gov from another company.

    The previous company appeared to be lost in touch with the requirements of the client. Althoguh they had a lot of good coders, things were not implemented to the clients liking. The greatest problem was that only the project managers maintained contact with the client.

    Our policy on the other hand has greater client interaction at all levels. And despite the development team being a tenth of the size of the previous company, everyone gets involved, are creative in their solutions, and less time is wasted coding and then correcting irrelevent features.

    If there is any greater case for NOT outsourcing software projects to offshore, our case is a good example.

    • This is very true.

      Within the U.S. one sees work frequently organized along lines of authoritarian hierarchies. You can see this in academia, in government and major corporations. There seems to be a trend to doing more things this way in the U.S.

      This type of organization also seems more likely to result in problems in the U.S. Good people are more likely to leave a work place where they're expected to obey PHBs. Problems can be surpressed in such environments.

      Whether this will continue well into t

  • East & West meet at the Twain. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:47PM (#8124547) Homepage Journal
    "East" and "West" are terrible descriptions. California is the most West, so it's kinda East. What about Hawaii? Australia? South Africa? The real difference is how old the society is. China has a very old society. So do Jews. Both societies are marked by lots of negotiation. Texas has a new society, as does Alaska, where individuals can get away with big moves. As societies gain collective experience, roles become established, forms have more persistence, communications are more complex and referential. While new societies take more risks, unencumbered by the lessons of past failures.

    As "civilization" has generally moved West across Eurasia and the Americas, while largely surviving culturally in earlier establishments, the "East" (starting at the Asian Pacific coast) is older than the "West". Of course, major paradigm shifts and even genocides have distorted even that simple gradient. And the 20th Century's cataclysm migration and telecommunications means that the meme pool has a whirlpool, swirling the cultural codes around the globe. But actual mores are encoded deep. So there is a persistent ghost of the underlying gradient. Nowadays, individuals can choose how traditional or neo they want to be in their lives. And the lack of geographic rhyme and reason is making front lines of conflict everywhere, with new syntheses in every neighborhood. Let a thousand hydroponic flowers bloom!

    • Re:East & West meet at the Twain. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Ugmo ( 36922 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @02:50PM (#8126007)
      I find it interesting what was once meant by the "East".

      The Orient Express train went to Buda-Pest. This was consider an exotic foreign land where people did things differently (at leat in English speaking countries).

      The East used to mean Eastern Europe and Constantinople (Istanbul).

      Then it meant China and Japan and the other "Easts" became "Eastern Europe", "the Near East" and "The Far East".

      Now it is politically correct to say "East Asia" (China/Japan/Siberia on the Pacific Coast?)
      "South Asia" (India)
      SouthWest Asia (Iraq/Persian Gulf)
      "Central Asia" (Mongolia? Some of the former Soviet Republics?)

      I haven't seen "West Asia" that much. I guess that would be Israel/Sinai/Lebanon. Turkey is still called Asia Minor and Anatolia as far as I can tell. The rest of "West Asia" would be Russia east of the Ural mountains (West of the Urals would be Europe).

      I agree that East/West by itself is no longer meaningful.
  • the submitter's name is "cowboyrobot"?!

    are we going to hear a rebuttal now from "samurairobot"?

  • The biggest cultural surprise (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    is when the pompous-ass American programmer 100K-er turns up to direct 20 outsourced indian programmer 7K-ers and discovers that they don't tell him what is going on.

    I wonder why?
  • In Western societies, decisions are made on the basis of input from those involved.

    Wait...that sounds like a GOOD thing? GASP! You mean there's a tech article that points out a GOOD aspect of american society?! Excuse me while I wait for the end of the world to come in 5...4...3...2...1...

  • Culture and Nationality correlation is exagerated (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rcastro0 ( 241450 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:52PM (#8124603) Homepage
    The correlation between culture (as defined in the article) and nationality is very, ver often exagerated. At least that is my experience, after having worked/studied in plenty of multinational environments and with people of multiple nationalities.

    Stereotypes do apply, but anti-stereotypes are plenty, as well. You will find the organized Greek, the warm German, the shy Italian, the Brazilian who does not like soccer and the American who knows world geography.

    I have experienced much more consistent cultural environments going from ony company (corporate culture) to another, than crossing national borders. I have seen corporate environments absorb various nationalities, even operating in different countries, and retaining its own (original) corporate culture. And I have seen, as well, plenty of cultural clashes and disagreement over world view within more than one country.

    The internet makes the dissociation between nationality/geography and culture even starker. /.ers, for example, have a cultural outlook more similar to one another than to the average of his/her national peer. Same applies to many other online communities.

    • Re:Culture and Nationality correlation is exagerat (Score:4, Funny)

      by CommieLib ( 468883 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:10PM (#8124795) Homepage
      Also found: the brave Frenchman, the Irish master chef, the lazy Japanese man, the Slashdotting mack daddy...

      Comedy gold.

      • Re:Culture and Nationality correlation is exagerat (Score:5, Interesting)

        by kfg ( 145172 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @03:12PM (#8126275)
        I have an interesting kneejerk reaction for an American, I stick up for the French. Perhaps this is influenced by living not too many doors down from the Marquis de Lafayette's local residence during the Revolution combined with childhood heros including Georges Guynemer and Roland Garros; not to mention possible bias from being able to trace my father's family back to Louis X (Ok, such a bad king that encyclopedias go staight from Louis IX to Louis XI) and hence back to Hugh Capet ( a cutthroat, but hey, a successful one).

        The French has always had a reputation for being among the bravest of the brave (ok, so sometimes they were bravest when following behind a teenage girl, but we'll overlook that). Nor have they had any traditional reputation as loosers ( and when they did lose you could count on the fact that the winner was going to pay dearly).

        Google on Verdun. In WWI Germany decided they were going to win the war by "bleeding France white." And they did. What they didn't count on was that France could bleed white and remain standing.

        Verdun did not fall.

        What the French have, as a culture, is a sense of the gallant. The problem here is that the ultimate in gallantry is to go down fighting for a noble cause. The role model is Roland, dying while defending the pass (as it is for the Greeks if it comes to that. The battle at Thermopolyae is one of the most remarkable events in military history).

        Alain Prost once noted the irony that he was vilified in France while he was winning in a French car, but became a national hero when he started coming in second in an Italian car.

        The point being that the French car was superiour. Almost not winning in a superiour car is the inferiour performance from the point of view of the gallant. Almost, but not quite, winning in an inferiour car is glorious. A Pomeranian taking it to a German Shepard, and going down in defeat, but in the process leaving the Shepard so bloodied that it must retire from the field and seek the ICU.

        It isn't even fair to say the French like losing. Jacques Anquitil is a French God. He was a winner, but he won with guts and spirit. Raymond Poulidor is also a French God although he was the perenial bridesmaid to a Belgian, but pushed the Belgian all the way, with guts and spirit even though the cause was laregley hopeless.

        To the Frenchman it's the spirit that counts more than the end result.

        Elan!

        And in WWII there were an awful lot of dead Germans as the result of brave Frenchman refusing to give up the fight just because their government did.

        KFG
    • Stereotypes do apply, but anti-stereotypes are plenty, as well. You will find the organized Greek, the warm German, the shy Italian, the Brazilian who does not like soccer and the American who knows world geography.

      Although not in the Whitehouse :-p
    • The article's defintion of culture is a good one, but there are others that are broader and others more narrow. But it does the job.

      But nationality is an administrative designation. I am a US national because I carry such documentation (ID, Passport, and, most importantly, voter's registration). National identity is a different thing. I would define it (ex Benedict Anderson/Eric Hobsbawm)/Richard Jenkins) as personal duty and subservience to an imagined, but not imaginary, community.

    • Re:Culture and Nationality correlation is exagerat (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:43PM (#8125141) Homepage Journal
      Self-selected groups, like corporations and blogs, have more selfconsistent cultures than groups selected by criteria other than culture, like countries.

    • Stereotypes do apply, but anti-stereotypes are plenty, as well. You will find the organized Greek, the warm German, the shy Italian, the Brazilian who does not like soccer and the American who knows world geography.

      What's the difference between heaven and hell?

      In heaven, you have British cops, French chefs, German mechanics, Swiss organizers, and Italian lovers.

      In hell, you have British chefs, French mechanics, German cops, Italian organizers, and Swiss lovers.

      For what it's worth, the biggest laugh

  • Couple stereotypes from the field (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    India and China are VERY big places with MUCH diversity. But, I have developed some personal stereotypes based on experiences that I encounter time and time again.

    Indians don't question authority, and actually have problems operating without it. They not only welcome being strictly regulated, they get stressed out in the absense of strict inflexible rules. The idea that one should question authority or make a decision that runs counter to what one has been told, never enters the thought process.

    Chinese

  • Slashdotted - Article Content - Part 1 (Score:4, Informative)

    by tommck ( 69750 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @12:58PM (#8124670) Homepage
    Culture Surprises in Remote Software Development Teams

    ACM Queue vol. 1, no. 9 - December/January 2003-2004
    by Judith S. Olson, University of Michigan; Gary M. Olson, University of Michigan and Collaboratory for Research on Electronic Work
    printer-friendly format
    recommend to a colleague
    sections in this article
    1: You Can't Hide from Culture
    2: Dimensions of Culture
    3: Cultural Differences in Development Teams
    4: Groupware and Cultural Differences
    5: An Emerging Internet Culture
    6: References

    "When in Rome" doesn't help when your team crosses time zones--and your deadline doesn't.
    You Can't Hide from Culture
    Technology has made it possible for organizations to construct teams of people who are not in the same location, adopting what one company calls "virtual collocation."1 Worldwide groups of software developers, financial analysts, automobile designers, consultants, pricing analysts, and researchers are examples of teams that work together from disparate locations, using a variety of collaboration technologies that allow communication across space and time.

    Although solving the problems of space and time is difficult, these are not the only issues. Work that takes place over long distances means that communication will often involve different cultures. Participants may be surprised by such interactions because they have not considered various cultural differences and how they impact the daily work of long-distance teams. Our own culture is invisible to us. "We don't see our own ways of doing things as conditioned in the cradle," writes Esther Wanning, author of Culture Shock! USA. "We see them as correct, and we conclude that people from other countries have grave failings."2

    The goal of this article is to review various cultural differences likely to appear in the work setting and explore their implications for virtual collocation of software development teams. We begin with a definition of culture and various dimensions of cultural difference that have emerged. Then we examine two cases: (1) one in which the team members are collocated; and (2) one involving the team in virtual collocation. From this analysis we draw some practical implications.

    CULTURE AND ITS DIMENSIONS
    Larry Samovar and Richard Porter3 have defined culture as:

    The deposit of knowledge, experience, beliefs, values, attitudes, meanings, hierarchies, religion, notions of time, roles, spatial relations, concepts of the universe, and material objects and possessions acquired by a group of people in the course of generations through individual and group striving.
    Culture is acquired. It helps people categorize and predict their world by teaching them habits, rules, and expectations from the behavior of others. It helps people "read" the world's signals--the meaning of symbols of artifacts, gestures, and accoutrements of others.4 Culture also molds the way people think: what their motivations are, how they categorize things, what inference and decision procedures they use, and the basis on which they evaluate themselves.5 It sets the gestures, space, and timing of interactions.6

    There are multiple kinds of culture: national, regional, occupational, organizational, avocational, and generational. Any of these might have important effects. Here we focus on national culture, assuming that knowing at least what a member of a culture shares with others is helpful in understanding how to interpret unusual behaviors. There are cultural explanations and new signals to read in understanding various interactions with people who are unlike oneself.

    JUDITH S. OLSON is the Richard W. Pew professor of human computer interaction at the University of Michigan. She is a professor in the computer and information systems department of the business school and the school of information, as well as a professor of psychology. Her research focuses on how groups get their work done and how they feel about each other when they communicate over various digital media. S
  • Although there is some discussion of trust in the article, I am surprised that the authors did not make use of some sort of trust framework alongside Hoftstede and Hall. While I am not generally a big fan of Francis Fukuyama (who besides is infamously titled book "The End of History" has also written "Trust: The Social Virtues and the Creation of Prosperity") something like his high trust/low trust society framework might also inform a discussion of cross-cultural working groups, especially when it comes

  • American regional differences (Score:3, Insightful)

    by doginthewoods ( 668559 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:25PM (#8124938)
    And similarly, there is a great difference between Northern and Southern, West Coast and East Coast cultures: In the South, "Yankees" are viewed as pushy, rude, and cold, while Northerners view Southerners as ignorant, slow, and too informal. This comes down to Southern preference of wanting to take time to get to know the person they are working with- his viewpoints, his family, his work habits, while Northerners want to get the job done quickly and in the most efficient manner with the least amount of wasted energy. I come from the South, and my drawl has elicited a ton of stereotypes about Southerners- the most prevalent is that I am not knowledgable. My 2 cents

  • Bad sociology (Score:4, Informative)

    by The Ape With No Name ( 213531 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:29PM (#8124971) Homepage
    In Western societies, decisions are made on the basis of input from those involved. In cultures with greater hierarchies, group members assume an authority will decide and they are only to enact the decision."

    The "West" is a complex, stratified society with more hierarchies than Chinese society for example, and these tend to be much more arbtrary -- 'race' for example. Caste and such in India are misunderstood as being the result of oppression, not differentiation of the means of production in agrarian societies. That oppression exists in caste-based societies is a fact. That it is the result of the very caste structure itself not the means of its control and manisfestation is what you can't get through to people. Anyhow, creative thinking is not the exclusive domain of "Western" culture. And assuming that it occurs on an individual level ignores socialization as a culural force.

  • Look home (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Graelin ( 309958 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:29PM (#8124973)
    You don't need to compare East vs West to see this cultural divide. We have this all over the US too. Many have already mentioned the differences between West Coast and East Coast but also look at North vs South.

    The rank / trust system was very common throughout this entire country before the 60's. It's still prevalent in the deep South today.

    I wonder if this behavior is in any way related to family upbringing? Those in more rigid and structure households (where everyone has a role and is depended on to fill that role) are more likely to trust their superiors in a professional environment. This theory could be supported by recruiting statistics, by region, of the US Armed Forces.

    On the flip side - those with a loose family structure, where each member is more independent, are more likely to distrust.

  • Okay (Score:2)

    by Cyno ( 85911 )
    So then what does psychology teach us?

    That the Boss who thinks he is being disrespected because his employees speak up is treating those employees like objects, not people of equal status.

    And the employee is well within their right to speak up. Every employee relies on their company to make the right decisions to keep them employeed. Some are even share holders. So they have a right to make sure the company is making the right decisions and getting the right feedback.

    If management feels uncomfortable
  • I thought the article was going to be about AT&T/Sys5 culture vs BSD...

    - Serge

  • The class of the audience... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cragen ( 697038 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @01:57PM (#8125370)
    Even in the American Midwest (where I grew up), there is a class system where each segment of each class has a slightly different attitude towards similar subjects. As a "lower middle-class" or "upper lower-class", one would be ridiculed if one showed any initiative whatsoever in any way. That was "trying to rise above one's self". When I moved to the American East Coast (and, coincidentally, into the upper middle-class), the culture shock was immediate. Initiative was expected and, when not shown, was considered a sign of laziness. I was "taught" growing up to wait to be told what to do. It took years to unlearn that habit. Don't let anyone tell you that America is a class-less society. You can, however, change classes here and in both directions.

    cragen

  • And where east meets west... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lpangelrob2 ( 721920 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @02:18PM (#8125605) Journal
    So you can probably imagine how confusing it would be to be part of both cultures.

    The difficulty of having Asian parents while growing up in an entirely American culture has been pretty evident... it's slightly different for every Asian-American, but from my experience and all my cousins (yes, all 15-20 of them) there's always been culture shock when it comes to girlfriends, spouses (don't get married 'til you're 28!), life decisions (you should be a doctor or a lawyer -- although at the time, software engineer was a respectable decision), and general parental control of your life. :-) Ask any Asian-American that grew up here about it, and chances are they've also been torn between the clear individualistic culture here and the clear group-oriented culture their parents came from and raised them to be.

    And precious few books have been written about the subject, too... but that's starting to change. The Joy Luck Club was a start.

  • Personal experience agrees (Score:3, Interesting)

    by johnlcallaway ( 165670 ) on Thursday January 29, 2004 @02:24PM (#8125679)
    I have worked with a few folks from India in my current position, and found that it is very important to draw them out and get their ideas. Initially, my suggestions were taken as direction and followed to the letter. While this is nice for my ego, it was not preferred. It is very rare that one person's idea is the best solution and is important to solicite other's opinions. On the other hand, it was nice to not have to argue about every little nit-picky thing too.

    An interesting aspect that came out of this was the changes in the India nationals. The longer they were here, the more outspoken they become, and the better the teams began to operate. As it became apparent that their input was welcome, the suggestions stayed suggestions and when conflicting priorities came up, they were discussed and comprises were worked out. It became a much healthier environment, less re-work was done, and project items were done in better sequence.

    I often wondered what difficulties arose when they finally went back to India. Did their new American-learned personality changes create problems, or were they quicly un-learned?

  • Cross Cultural influence (Score:3, Interesting)

    by andy1307 ( 656570 ) * on Thursday January 29, 2004 @02:44PM (#8125917)
    Cultures don't remain static. They are influenced by interactions with other cultures. In India, about 10 years ago, you addressed your boss as sir. Now with the influence of the IT industry and people who are working in India after a stint in the US, it's not uncommon to use first names when addressing even your CEO. That would have been unheard of before.

    The article doesn't talk about people moving to countries with different cultures and adapting to the culture of that country. Indians working in the US may behave slightly differently than Indians in India.

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