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Bloggers Assail Movable Type's New Pricing Scheme
Posted by
michael
on Fri May 14, 2004 09:38 AM
from the slash-still-free dept.
from the slash-still-free dept.
cioxx writes "An immensely popular weblog publishing tool, Movable Type, has announced a new pricing model based on "support level, number of authors permitted, and the number of weblogs permitted per license". MT3D (Developer Edition) for non-commercial users has drifted away from its full-featured, free predecessor and managed to upset many blog authors whose entry summaries can be seen via the trackback feature originating from the initial MT3D announcement. Is this a case of bait-n-switch, or simply a company trying to capitalize on its dominant market share? WordPress (GPL), which is an equally powerful CMS, seems like a perfect candidate for those who are considering a switch to a non-crippled, free alternative."
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Good example of why open source != free (Score:5, Insightful)
I got hit with it too (Score:5, Funny)
It seems like with anything you buy today, you're at the mercy of the people working to make the product and sell it.
Parent
Re:I got hit with it too (Score:4, Insightful)
With software, it's generally much more difficult to switch vendors. System requirements and means of configuration, not to mention configuration options, are often vastly different.
Granted, proficiency with the underlying principles (Component functions in a car, protocols in software) go a long way in easing change. However, while many people aren't familiar with cars beyond filling the tank and checking the oil, most people aren't familiar with the workings of databases and HTTP.
Parent
Re:I got hit with it too (Score:5, Insightful)
In the general case, yes. In the case of MoveableType... well, you have the code... it is written in Perl... and all your data is safely stored away in a format that is easily retrievable.
At the end of the day, MT is just an interface into and out of a database. An open source database at that.
It has really cool features for puttting and getting the data... but, it doesn't "trap" the data.
Parent
Re:I got hit with it too (Score:4, Informative)
Not for distribution.
I believe that is sufficient for the case of switching vendors. (Which was my point... that switching from MT is easy because of your access to the code and data.)
Parent
Re:Good example of why open source != free (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:MovableType != Open Source (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Just use Drupal (Score:4, Informative)
I installed it on my server and dumbed it down so only the blog is active, and it's working great.
Parent
Please oh please oh please (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Please oh please oh please (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Please oh please oh please (Score:5, Funny)
But how will I be able to get through the day without Jerry B. Smith's Blog entries? Today he got up and found his cat had vomitted on the floor in the middle of the night. HILARIOUS! You can't pay for writing that good. A few days ago he described how he had to take his car in for an oil change and it took 15 minutes instead of the more industry standard 10 minute quick change because they were jerking him around. Damn quick change places.
Parent
Re:Please oh please oh please (Score:5, Insightful)
You know that Slashdot is a blog, right?
Parent
Pass the crack (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Pass the crack (Score:5, Informative)
Not only do they still have a free version but also, no-one is forced to upgrade. It seems people aren't interested in whether it's free as in speech but when it's free as in beer, changes in the pricing structure bring bitter recriminations.
Parent
Re: Not just the cost (Score:5, Informative)
- Derek
Parent
Re: Not just the cost (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, I understand that they're trying to run a company and keep a roof over their heads, but this new license is really not suitable for a LOT of the folks who use and love MT. I mean, c'mon, I'm running MT on a dual-CPU PII, a half-dozen blogs (only 2 public) and 20+ authors (my friends and a couple of accounts that are just for automated postings & such). Do they seriously think that I'm going to cough up $600+ out of brand loyalty?
I appreciate their effort, and I've donated to them in the past, but they're putting themselves in competition with several free (speech & beer) alternatives.
While I can see MT becoming the tool of choice for ISP/ASP markets who want to provide weblog services to their clients, I think that the 'hobby' and 'lightweight' marketshare will either freeze at MT 2.6x or go elsewhere and take their marketshare to other blogging tools.
I also imagine that all those folks writing MT 2.x plug-ins will quickly start duplicating the 'new' features that MT3 is hawking.
Remember what happened when Kazaa sold out and a raft of other free P2P clients turned up the heat and started giving them a real run for the corporate money?
I'm sure that this won't be the last we hear of it, and I wouldn't be suprised if MT rethinks it's licensing policy, but I'm almost positive that I'm going to move my MT blogs over to something else in the next 3-6 months.
Best of luck to Mena & Ben in the wild woolly world of corporate software, but I hope you've got your mittens; a lot of folks are going to start giving you the cold shoulder over this.
Parent
Re:Pass the crack (Score:4, Interesting)
Anything else and they have a NPO, or a group of hobbyists.
Lest folks rag on hobbyists, they are the ones who brought you:
-Airplane
-Car
-Phone
-Electricity
It's a long list, you know.
How much do you want to bet that whoever came up with fire was a geek? How about the wheel? How about writing. Dang, I don't see a bunch of grunting jocks inventing writing, even today.
By the way, once people understand that about companies, it's not that hard to figure out why the world runs the way it does.
Well, that and religion.
On an aside: my solution for Iraq: flood the country with 100 billion in small bills. This will really get rid of the bad guys. They'll be too busy killing each other amassing their fortunes, and then whisking themselves off to a chalet in Lausanne. Then the rest of the people can have normal lives again. The only other thing thy need is a small and deadly military. Why are we trying to hire 200,000 of them for a pittance with AKs and old uniforms when what you really need is 20,000 of them with 1500/mo salaries, tanks, helicopters, and kick ass officers. Then you make them into a shock and rapid deployment force. Also, you need to make sure that they are NOT under US command, but have their own command. Like the Kurds. Kurds fight well in the Kurdish armies because they fight with Kurds, for Kurds.
Ah, I feel better now... Back to work.
Parent
RMS talks about free speech........ (Score:5, Insightful)
old version link (Score:3, Interesting)
How dare they! (Score:5, Insightful)
Presumably you believe it's crippled because you have to pay for it, which I have to say I find a poor argument. Pay for the stuff if you think it's worth the money, use something else if you don't. It's not a hard choice.
Just Switched (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, and it imports movable type files. Seriously, with the wide variety of free, quality, blogging software out there, Six Apart has their work cut out for them.
Re:Just Switched (Score:4, Informative)
Sounds like you've already got a solution, but others should really consider Blosxom [blosxom.com] - it's truly free [blosxom.com] (not just GPL), and in additoin to being really easy to use, has a bunch of advantages, the bidggest of which is that it understands the concept of using a heirarchical file system to organize posts. Blog entries are simply text files thrown into the appropriate directory. Blosxom can also generate pages dynamically, as most blogs do, or statically, allowing batch updates if you want.
It's written in Perl, and has a large and rapidly growing collection of "plug-ins" that extend its functionality, often in ways that is similar to (or sometimes better than Movable Type's. don't be fooled by its simplicity and small size - Blosxom does nearly everything the larger packages do, and is much, much, easier and more flexible than any other blog program I've run across.
Blosxom really is one of the most impressive programs I've seen in some time. It's worth checking out, and should be considered as an alternative to Movable Type, GreyMatter, Blogger, and the rest more often than it is. Fortunately, a growing number of hosting providers offer Blosxom support, since it's so easy and reliable.
Parent
Re:Just Switched (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll second or third that. Blosxom is a very powerful, very simple tool (the upcoming version 3.0, which has grown significant in size, is a scandalously large 15KiB in size!
Blosxom allows an extension of its features via Plugins [blosxom.com], which allows you to get the features you want without also getting loaded up on the ones you don't. I didn't care for MT's CMS with its various logins, complex scripts, etc.
The other feature that I really enjoy in Blosxom is the easy easy easy syndication; all you do is add
So yeah, ditch MT and go Blosxom. You won't regret it!
Parent
Not Bait-n-Switch (Score:3, Insightful)
Given MobableType's popularity, this really shouldn't come as a surprise. The more people they have using their service, the more it costs to maintain a quality level of service. That's the price they pay to give blog space to anyone who wants it.
So as with any business in a capitalist society, if you don't want to go along with this pricing plan, do as the submitter suggests and go to another service.
Harsh! (Score:5, Interesting)
While I use Wordpress for both my blogs, I think that everyone is being rather harsh on these people who are just trying to make a living.
No big deal -- stick with version 2 (Score:5, Informative)
By the way, shameless plug:
Polstate.com is the Political State Report [polstate.com], a web site held together by contributors from each state (US) who report on grassroots and statewide political news, especially when relevant to local and state elections. We offer a different flavor of political news, distinct from most other blogs and news sites that focus on the Presidency, war on terror, and national economy.
Oh really now (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Oh really now (Score:5, Informative)
That said, it's obvious to anyone with a pair of brain celss that this pricing structure is to make their Typepad service [typepad.com] more attractive for casual bloggers and non-techies. If you you're willing to get your elbows dirty you can run a blog on your own machine from home with the free version.
Parent
"Mena's Corner" Flooded With Complaints (Score:4, Informative)
From their website (Score:5, Insightful)
Not willing to pay for Movable Type yet? This fully-functional version of the application is available free of charge. Important limitations of this license include:
* No support from Six Apart
* No access to paid installation service
* No access to fee-based services
* No promotion of your weblogs through the Recently Updated list
* No commercial usage
* No more than one author and three weblogs
So let me interpret these points...
* No mooching.
* No mooching.
* No mooching.
* No commercial use.
* Limited (yet otherwise fully functional) personal use.
Why is this so bad? I've paid a lot more than $70 for software that I've really liked. This is pretty cheap.
Corinna
Re:From their website (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
It's still free, it's not crippled (Score:4, Informative)
There's no bait or switch going on here at all. There is still a free version available [sixapart.com], it's not crippled [metafilter.com] in any way:
The only thing this does is a) allow SixApart to eat, and b) allow large corporations to buy MT. I know plenty of organisations that want to use it, but couldn't even look at it until it cost more than nothing. Many procurement processes can't deal with Free.
From backroom hobby to multinational company in three years: Good for them, frankly.
Re:It's still free, it's not crippled (Score:4, Informative)
I don't have anything against SA trying to make a living, but they priced me out of the market. I run 3 or 4 blogs with around 10 - 15 users, I earn $0.00 on them and am expected to pay $600 to upgrade to a new version that only offers one new feature (comment management).
Like I said on my site, if they had offered me something that would meet my needs for $40 - $50 I would probably pay up. Instead I'm going to stick with 2.6.
Parent
Yeah, Income Sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
I especially don't ever want to continue to give away a free version, but charge people who are using it in a business environment. That would suck even more if people who are using my software to make money themselves.
PEOPLE! You can still use MT for free with one or two authors, personal blog, etc. If you're using it for more industrial stuff, then don't expect it to be free forever, especially since you GET SUPPORT FROM THE DEVELOPER.
I'm not talking about the typical "RTFM, l0s3r" support you get from certain GPL apps, I'm talking about actually ask-a-question-get-a-polite-and-helpful-answer kind of support.
Just because they need to make money (who doesn't?), doesn't mean you should dump them completely.
Preaching to the choir. (Score:4, Informative)
Personally, I've been spoiled by
Good Place To Search For Alternatives (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.opensourcecms.com/ is a good site to search for alternative weblogs. The nice thing is that they have working demos up that you can access to try out stuff.
The reviews are pretty generic and not much help.
Does anyone know of a good source for reviews on CMS systems?
I also have to question the stats on the link stating moveable type is the most popular weblog. Some prominent blogging software is not counted, such as geeklog, scoop, and (ahem) slashdot.
It's not entirely fair to lambaste moveabletype, they are still offering a non-commercial version of limited capability.
A few weeks ago, when I was evaluating CMS systems, I came across moveable-type, and their lack of a free license is what turned me off. The system that most impressed me was PHPNuke.
My biggest complaint about most of these CMS's are the big holes in documentation.
</rant>
Why your Movable Type blog must die (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/2/171117/8
hack it! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:hack it! (Score:4, Informative)
There are no limitations coded in. The license works on the honor system.
Parent
Free _is_ better (Score:5, Interesting)
But I won't pay for Movable Type. Here's why.
On SixApart's behalf, they made several big mistakes in launching their pricing structure. Since they announced MT3 and that they were going to charge for it, they also promised a free non-crippled version of MT3. Blogging is generally a communual experience. I blog casually, and I have a couple of friends who write posts on my blog from time to time, and a wife who keeps her own blog. The free version of MT3 is crippled, because it limits the users and number of blogs. Limiting user base is bad thing to do when blogging is still relatively new.
Secondly, the pricing structure is much higher than what people anticipated. Those in the beta test for MT3 had absolutely no idea that it was going to cost this much, and many who did participate have publically stated they wouldn't have if they did know. Why the hostility?
Two reasons. It's the community that made MT what it is now. There's not really that much new functionality in MT3 that makes it worth paying $100 for (the $70 is a temporary discount remember?). Many of the features that made MT2x worth using were coded by non-SixApart people. Users - with no profit motive whatsoever - coded hundreds of MT plugins that exceeded the coding ability of SixApart. Others wrote far more detailed tutorials and instructions than SixApart provided for their own software. So, SixApart is compensating them by running a contest for the best plugin? That's insulting, honestly.
Secondly, there are blogging apps that do as good a job as MT3, if not better. And, they're [textpattern.com] free [wordpress.org]. Others have similar pricing structures as MT3 but do more. So, why MT3? And let's get this straight: using something for free isn't necessarily being a cheapass. If maintaining my blogs as they are will cost me upwards $150, why shouldn't I migrate to a free solution? Imagine if Windows had the same stability and security as Linux, but cost the same as it does now for a company to run. Why wouldn't a company move to Linux? Are companies being the durgatory form of cheapskates by moving to a lower priced product? No. It's common market sense, and because of its love for linux and open source, slashdot should be aware of this better than anyone. Some MT users probably are cheapass, and will warez the MT software if they can or do whatever they can to avoid paying.
But a larger portion are paying for accounts on livejournal and blogger. They are paying for internet access and webhosting. They're not cheapskates. Instead, like me, they just don't want to pay $150-200 for what is basically a hobby, and a hobby that can continue for free if we switch software. Why should we support a company that doesn't announce its pricing structure beforehand, and keeps it as close to their chest as possible? Why did SixApart do that? Why didn't they announce it before time? Because they knew people would be pissed. This reaction is no surprise to anyone.
Free Software Blog Alternatives (Score:5, Informative)
BBlog [bblog.com] (requires PHP version 4.1 or greater & MySQL version 3.23 or greater)
Bit 5 Blog [sourceforge.net]
blosxom [blosxom.com] (only need ability to run CGI scripts)
drupal.org [drupal.org] (mySQL or similar required)
LiveJournal.org [livejournal.org]
MyPHPblog/Simplog [myphpblog.org] (seems to require MySQL would have to download to be sure.)
Nucleus [nucleuscms.org] (requires PHP version 4.0.6 or higher and access to a MySQL database version 3.23.38 or higher)
Pivot [pivotlog.net] (only php required)
pLog [plogworld.org] (requires PHP 4.1.x or higher and MySQL 3.1.x or higher)
Scoop [kuro5hin.org] (requires Apache with mod_perl and mySQL)
TikiWiki [tikiwiki.org] (requires PHP 4.1+ and MySQL. Very powerful software.)
WordPress [wordpress.org] (requires PHP version 4.1 or greater and MySQL version 3.23.23 or greater.)
Bad development ... (Score:4, Interesting)
TypePad has many features many MT users have been waiting for a long time - especially since many MT users paid some money to use their tool. Some of that money kept SixApart alife and financed the developement of TypePad.
MT3 hardly offers ANY new features - none of those we can see in TypePad, like list management, gallery etc.
MT was for many people the only real alternative to Blogger, but MT2.x or even MT3.x now lags behind in terms of features and most of all performance.
There has been a long time announcement for a MT3 Pro version - which never surfaced.
MT3 is still based on static pages, so if you change your layout (CSS or templates) you have to rebuild all pages - which can take down many shared servers. There have been reports that some ISPs won't allow MT installs on their severs, because those rebuilds eat all cpu power. MT is also very slow when it comes to comments.
Many long time MT bloggers with hundreds or thousands of postings and comments are sick and tired about the rebuild issue. Many of the other weblog systems are dynamic since they are based on PHP.
One of the main points for MT2.x have been it's active plugin developer scene - which was mostly born out of the lack of features. Many people hoped that MT3 would include many of these plugins as regular features
SixApart has a bad reputation in terms of licenses and communication. They behave a bit like Apple: we are sooo cool therefore you have to pay more. This may work if you have a product like the iPod, which is really outstanding - but MT3 is not really far ahead of the competition.
Many MT users will switch, because they are disappointed, because they are sick and tired of waiting for better features and constantly putting up with bad communcation.
The pricing schemes is confusing and not very useful for neither private nor business users. A good CMS/blog is worth some money, but not several hundred dollars/euro.
Another point certainly are those many more dynamic weblog systems based on PHP - they are easier to hack for most people and less bitchy about server performance. They should have released a home (around $30) and a business version (around $75) - PLUS different kind of support contracts - like so many other companies do. Let's say a MT3 Gold service contract will cost you $500 a year, but you will hava a three hour response time etc.
MT/SixApart once hat the lead and they had the buzz. The negative wave has been building up for at least six months now. I am sure SixApart won't disppear over night, but it will take them a long time or a very bold business move to get rid of that bad vibe and earn the trust of their users again.
Meanwhile I personally will go for WordPress some day (my weblog [orangeguru.net]).
Why most users are bitching... (Score:5, Insightful)
No business ethics problems? How about this.
You ready a beta release of a piece of software, and ask people to beta test it. Mention nothing about paying, or even that you are considering changing the license. Being the loyal folks they are, lots say "OK" and you give them the software. They upgrade to it, and there's no way to downgrade.
Then, about 5 weeks later, you say, "Oh, by the way, most of you will have to pay to upgrade out of beta". Keeping in mind that most of the people who are the most loyal to MT, and therefore the most likely to have signed up for the beta program, are the ones who take MT to its' limits by using multiple blogs for things like link sidebars, book reviews, photoblogs, etc., and a lot of them no longer qualify for the free version because of the three blog limit.
You've just stranded a whole bunch of people on a beta version of your software, and you're basically extorting them to allow them to upgrade to a non-beta release.
It does look like SixApart [sixapart.com] have shot themselves in the foot and alienated themselves from their fanbase. They have violated the golden role of starting to charge for something that was previously free. In the world of tech where everyone wants the latest and greatest (and MT users are particularly tech-savvy given the requirements to install and maintain the software), this was always going to be an unpopular decision. How could they not have foreseen this?
The launch of their TypePad [typepad.com] service last year (which is basically a fully commercial, hosted MT package with bells and whistles like photo gallery management) was a smart business move; make a service out of your product, and keep the original product free. This latest move, though, is beyond comprehension and will only hurt them. It will sure be interesting to see how they backpedal from this.
Pricing 101: what not to do (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems that they've screwed up one of the most basic rules in pricing: never take away features and charge for them. You can charge for new features - but taking away features that were included for free before always pisses off your most loyal customers. They feel suckered. They feel like you've pulled a bait and switch on them. In this case, many MT users set up multiple blogs with multiple authors. That's what the software encouraged them to do. Now, they're looking at the pricing and realizing to continue doing so on the new platform would cost them around $600. "Costs more for doing less" isn't a way to make users happy.
Shareware, Freeware, Extortion (Score:5, Insightful)
I can see both sides of the issue. On one side you have people and companies whoring themselves out, giving away free software and services in order to compensate for not having resources to advertise, but at some point they need to see some return or else they can't sustain the development of their products.
On the other hand, you have have users who have become spoiled and selfish and expect everything to be free, and eveything to be super-cheap.
On yet another front, you have both commercial and shareware companies flooding the market with buggy and inferior products with little or no tech support. And then you have mafia like Quicken, forcing users to pay more and more each year to simply maintain the functionality of their software once they hoodwink users into converting over.
The whole industry is a mess. The one shining star in all of this is Open Source. There is a clear delineation between the for-profit and for-development arms of most of these projects and that's a refreshing change.
It used to be a gamble relying on shareware. You never knew if the company was going to be around or there'd ever be an update, or whether things would just suddenly stop working or break. Now you have the same thing with most of the commercial companies. I don't blame the users for being cautious about which products to support, but the bottom line is that people work hard to create these systems and if they don't get compensated one way or another, they can't keep up the work.
In the end, you get what you pay for, literally and figuratively. If you've never given a dime to the developers of systems you use on a regular basis, then shut your trap when they close up shop or are forced to adopt the new industry-standard of strong arming users into paying.
The Other Restriction (Score:4, Insightful)
"You may install the Software on only one (1) computer or server having a single CPU."
This presents a problem for many people who purchase webhosting; if their webhost using servers with more than one CPU (very likely), they legally cannot install/use Movable Type.
Oh, and to address the people who say to stay with version 2.6: holding back on the upgrade is only a temporary solution. The next time a Movable Type bug or security hole is discovered, I'm willing to bet that Six Apart is only going to patch the 3.0 tree.
I have a much longer rant about the license change here [evilcoder.com].
Moving from MT to WP - A guide. (Score:5, Informative)
Some people never stop bitching... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Charge for Software? Quel Horreur! (Score:4, Interesting)
Perheaps you would care to explain it in more detail to the 90% of the planet's population, livng in places where dog-eat-dog capitalizm is the religion de jeur but it is curiously coupled with unspeakable misery and poverty of the "common man", freedom is unheard of and outright slavery common. What is your solution? More capitalism? More US-based pan-national megacorporations owning more of everything? Less governent restrictions on "investment"?
My imagination is too feable to understand how could one have less restrictions for the capitalists in some of the African and Latin American bannana republics then they have now. Most even come with a friendly dictator who would promptly kill/maim/torture anyone who would object to a capitalist investment. So, please, by all means, do enlighten me how does capitalizm further freedom. I for one was under this irrational impression that capitalizm is a religion of money and the only thing it is concerned with is multiplication of "wealth" with no regards as to its distribution and human costs. We in the west are just lucky that our history and culture resulted in other, completely unrelated ideas like "democracy", "representative governemt", "free press" etc to colaborate with some of the more palatable capitalist ideas to form our present, somewhat successful social systems.
Parent
Re:YAWN (Score:4, Funny)
MovableType is written in Perl, so you do get all the sources. Ironically, since it's written in Perl, MovableType can be considered a closed-source package, since who the hell wants to parse someone else's Perl code.
Parent