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Communications Handhelds Java Programming Hardware

Verizon Crippled Bluetooth Features in Motorola V710 366

Posted by michael from the selling-it dept.
djdoubles writes "Apparently Verizon Wireless has put firmware with crippled Bluetooth features in the new Motorola v710 phone. A lot of people have been anticipating a Bluetooth phone from Verizon, only to be disappointed by lack of OBEX. Verizon says they have no plan to add OBEX because it doesn't fit their business model--greedy bastards. PC Magazine doesn't have very nice things to say either. More discussion here."
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Verizon Crippled Bluetooth Features in Motorola V710 More

Verizon Crippled Bluetooth Features in Motorola V710

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  • As a Verizon customer (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:00PM (#10141899)
    I recognize the fact that if Verizon tells me I don't need something, then I don't need it.

  • What are you complaining about again? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stecoop ( 759508 ) * on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:00PM (#10141900) Journal
    Would you rather get shoot with by the BlueSniper with a virus-outy BlueSnarf [slashdot.org] dart? And we wonder why Ericsson [slashdot.org] is moving on to other projects - highlighted from the greedy bass-turd article ...so wireless carriers can charge people... Gotta get paid ya know.

    And if you really want a blue tooth phone there is a nifty niche and free capitalist market called eBay.

    • Re:What are you complaining about again? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BoldAC ( 735721 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:03PM (#10141938)
      But Verizon disabled the phone's Bluetooth file-transfer function, so you can't wirelessly transfer photos to your PC without using the carrier's for-pay Pix Messaging service

      Yeah, they are doing it for security reasons... yeah, right. As the quote above shows, it's all about the dollars, baby.

      • Re:What are you complaining about again? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Davak ( 526912 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:09PM (#10142006) Homepage
        Sadly, the system works.

        Charging per minute instead of a flat rate -- that makes them more money.
        Making it difficult for people to trade ringtones -- that makes them more money.
        Charging to send little alphanumeric messages -- that makes them more money.

        and...

        Charging to send pictures through a server instead of directly -- that makes them more money. It's cheap money now as the pictures are small. But when the camera resolution increases or when the phone/cameras can create audio/video, the time required to be online is going to greatly, greatly increase.

        The world of cheap hardware and expensive services just increases and increases...

      • Yeah, they are doing it for security reasons... yeah, right. As the quote above shows, it's all about the dollars, baby.

        So go buy the phone from somebody else and pay full retail price for it and then have it activated for your Verizon account. Then you'll own the phone and can do whatever you want with it. I had the same gripe when Verizon disabled the speakerphone feature on my Kyocera 2325 phone -- but it's their prerogative if they are subsidizing the phone for you.

    • It's now safe to turn off your computer. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:10PM (#10142011) Homepage Journal
      What are *you* complaining about? In fact, *how* are you complaining, by using Slashdot? Don't you know that the Internet can give you a virus? Throw away the computer, and never worry about viruses again. Same goes for dating...

      The Ericsson is moving on from *inventing* Bluetooth, to capitalizing on its innovations through mere marketing. That's how tech capitalism works. And since you won't be using eBay anymore, to avoid getting scammed, you might not be interested in learning that Bluetooth phones need a telco carrier, like Verizon. Boy, are you lucky you won't have to make any hard choices anymore.

  • Verizon is developer-unfriendly (Score:5, Interesting)

    by n2rjt ( 88804 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:01PM (#10141912) Journal
    They do everything possible to keep people from downloading apps, tones, etc directly to the phone. No J2ME on any Verizon phone, as far as I can tell.
    Better to use T-Mobile or Cingular in the US.
    • Its amazing that companies still think this way. Look at the most popular games out there... Doom, Half Life, Unreal Tournament... they're popular because you can download new 'mods' for them. If I were trying to sell a new cell phone/pda I'd want it as open as possible. Release a pretty base funcitoning model, but allow developers to create skins, apps, etc. to it. Your development time is reduced, and people will flock to it if you can get developers interested.
      • Possible.

        However, Verizon's business is not built around selling phones. It's built around selling you minutes and special premium features. Id doesn't make any less money if you download Doom or Quake mods, but that's not necessarily the case here.

        The problem is that Verizon is figuring that the gain in minutes-usage by releasing a more open phone is going to result in less money than requiring people to use the premium services. And unless there's evidence to prove otherwise, that's where things will
      • Are you kidding?

        They want as few features as possible, so you will want to buy another phone as soon as possible.

      • Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Pii ( 1955 ) <jedi @ l i g h t s a b e r.org> on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:36PM (#10142297) Journal
        This only makes sense if you are making money selling the hardware...

        US Wireless Tecos don't make any money on selling the phones themselves... They lose money.

        All of their cash comes on the back end, through service agreements, long term committments, overage changes, and add-on services with their accompanied charges.

        It doesn't make business sense for Verizon to let you transfer pictures for free, when they could instead charge you for on-air minutes.

        Don't worry... Capitalism has a mechanism to protect you, the consumer. It's called choice. Use another provider, but there are trade-offs. Cingular or TMobile may has cooler phones, with better features, but their coverage areas are far weaker that Verizon's.

        You need to decide up front what you need out of the service... The ability to make phone calls anytime, anyplace, or a cool techno toy that can send pictures to all your pals?

    • Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Verizon is currently using Qualcomm's Brew [qualcomm.com] system, rebranded as Get It Now!.
      If you want to get apps onto your Verizon handset, I suggset looking at Bitpim [sourceforge.net], you will require a datacable. (available online, or at a VZW store)

      I believe Verizon is limiting access to bluetooth, simply to prevent people from using the data connection as a modem for they're laptops. Why this is, is beyond me. As they charge an arm and a leg for data transfers.

      • Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly (Score:4, Informative)

        by kidgenius ( 704962 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:25PM (#10142186)
        You can very easily use the phone as a modem for Laptops and PDAs over bluetooth. I've successfully browsed the web w/ a Tungsten T3 without a hitch. That particular profile is included in the BT setup of the phone right now.

      • to prevent people from using the data connection as a modem for they're laptops. Why this is, is beyond me. As they charge an arm and a leg for data transfers.

        You can use your Verizon phone as a modem, and calls are charged just like any other usage. No extra fees for data transfers. (It's not at all clear from their website, I had to go to a store and get a salescritter to explain it to me.) They do have a higher-speed, more-expensive data service available, but for checking mail and lite surfing, it's

    • Better to use T-Mobile or Cingular in the US

      TMobile has a GSM network too. So, when you fly international, you can just buy a SIM card and have a phone right away.
      • May not be true if you bought your phone from the carrier. Most US carriers completely defeat the concept behind GSM, and make it so the phone simply doesn't work apart from their service. I know, I've got three different GSM phones at home from two different carriers. Both GSM, but they won't recognize the other's SIMs.
        • Thats called network locking and is trivially easy to get removed. Here in the UK, take any popular phone down to your local street market and theres always a stall there selling phone covers, they usually unlock the phones for around a tenner.

          You can also unlock nokias using manufacturer codes as well, doesnt require any hardware. As soon as I find this link in my mail archive, Ill post a reply to myself. Its a website that generates the correct codes for you to use.
        • T-Mobile is the best about that among US carriers though. Just email your customers details and IMEI to through the customer service form [custhelp.com] on the site and they'll send you the unlock codes.
        • Tmobile is pretty good about giving you unlock codes. After you have passed the two week period where you can cancel your contract, they will give you unlock codes. I've had them for about a year now, and have been pretty happy with them. The Nokia 6610 we bought from them worked flawlessly in the US, Hong Kong, and Singapore.
      • Only if you fly somewhere that uses GSM, of course. GSM isn't going to do you any good in CDMA countries like Japan.
    • All mobile phone companies do this and, IMHO, Sprint is the worst. But, let's note from TFA:

      Verizon says that crippling Bluetooth implementation is a "fraud prevention" tactic to prevent strangers from sending unsolicited text messages to your phone. Whatever.

      I'd have preferred a little more rebuttal than "whatever." That is -- could Verizon be telling the truth here? Are there security holes in bluetooth's serial port and file-transfer functions? What about in motorola's implementation in this

      • Re:Verizon is developer-unfriendly (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ElGuapoGolf ( 600734 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:35PM (#10142287) Homepage

        Verizon's *main* reason for disabling the OBEX functionality on this phoen is simple... they do not want you to be able to take pictures from your phone and send them to others via bluetooth. If the disabling of BT was simply for security, you'd be able to transfer pictures using that nice 40 dollar data cable they'll happily sell you. But you can't with that either.

        I bought my bluetooth phone from Cingular for 2 reasons. I can sync my calendar, and use the handsfree in my car. The phone itself was 100. With Verizon I would pay 200 for the phone (yeah, I know you can get it for 179 from joe's phone shack, but whatever) and I'd pay another 40 for the data cable to sync with my calendar.

        What's the point of Verizon even offering this....?

      • not all do it, or can.

        for example, if the operator in practice can't sell you a phone any operator influence on the phones features is practically straight out the window. this is not far fetched, it's possible and in action in a country with one of the highest mobile phone penetration rates on earth. add free number portability and *CUSTOMER IS KING*, any bullshit from operator and you can switch just like that.

        if they were really just worried about something like that, then send the phones with obex tur
      • I'd have preferred a little more rebuttal than "whatever." That is -- could Verizon be telling the truth here? Are there security holes in bluetooth's serial port and file-transfer functions? What about in motorola's implementation in this particular phone? If not, then OK -- this is a shameless money grab and nothing more, hiding under a false veneer of "maintaining user privacy."

        Right, but as I understand from TFA, it seems that they will in fact sell you these features. So their security argument fal

      • I'm not a moto employee, nor would I consider myself a "bluetooth expert" however I am very knowledgeable about bluetooth technology, and this v710 situation in general.

        I have a Motorola V600, and have had it for months. It's a GSM phone, and I use it through Cingular, but there are versions of the v600 from At&T Wireless and T-Mobile. It's a great phone, and bluetooth works flawlessly in every profile, it's not crippled at all. My buddy from work, after seeing my phone badly wanted a bluetooth pho

    • Verison is *user* unfriendly, too. I've been with Verizon for almost two years now and can't think of anything positive to say about them except that their coverage is pretty decent. Their customer service is an abomination. Their phones are among the most feature-poor phones in the industry. When I switched to Verizon, their phones were cutting-edge and it was other carriers (AT&T) that were lagging behind. Now, things have totally switched. I've been waiting for a bluetooth phone from Verizon to
      • so you don't like verison because they use phones that make calls and have a large service area? if i wanted "features" i'd get a laptop or PDA, Phones are for mking calls and storing basic contact info.
      • I would switch also, if it weren't for one thing--GSM sucks where I live. I can't get a signal in my own apartment. My Verizon phone works fine with a a couple of dropped calls. But my Cingular phone gets absolutely no signal and my AT&T Blackberry only rarely has a signal.

        That's Verizon's whole schtick--no, they don't have the phones that the other manufacturers have, but they have the best coverage.

      • Their customer service is an abomination.

        Really? That's interesting... the one thing I've always been surprised about Verizon Wireless is how good their customer service reps have been when I called them. I've had a couple of billing mistakes creep in over the years, and whenever I called them it was fixed in 5 minutes, no questions asked. (This of course is in stark contrast to their landline counterpart whose customer service is... well, I like your word... an abomination. :)

    • I'd be the last person to defend *any* mobile phone company, but bottomline is they are all out there to make money, and our legislators are only too happy to look the other way.

      For instance: 'Get-it-now' on Verizon phones ... shameful waste of a button right up front serving only one purpose: buy cheesy ringtones, screensavers(!) & other 'features' for your phone! Other carriers have similar services, but most are not nearly as in-your-face as Verizon's.

      As for the developers ... well, what percentage

      • It's amazing. The mobile phone companies can sell you games, ringtones, wallpaper and text messages, but they can't^H^H^H^H^H *WON'T* tell you instantly how many minutes you've used this billing cycle. Hell, my Cingular phone doesn't even work in my living room - I have to go outside where I get at least three bars worth of signal. [inside - SEARCHING..., outside - THREE BARS].

        All you sixteen year old spoiled teeny-boppers with the disposable income to afford mobile phones are wrecking my universe by d

  • Actually sounds OK to me (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) * <seebert42@gmail.com> on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:02PM (#10141924) Homepage Journal
    My main wishes in a bluetooth phone are dial up networking and cord-free headsets. For those of us who carry PDAs anyway with a SD card slot, there's an easy workaround for picture transfering- just use your PDA whenever your phone gets full, and at the end of the day before you sync your PDA.

    • wrong (Score:2, Interesting)

      by putch ( 469506 )
      with the 710 you cannot transfer files via BT or via USB. i have one. you can only do it via messaging (only 25 picture messages/month). or by using a transflash card (a micro sd card) that is nearly impossible to remove (you need to power off the phone and use tweezers). there are people that are working on developing usb hack to do this (as of now they can read and overwrite files on the phone via usb. but this is difficult to do and not officially supported)

      furthermore, as of now, you can't even synch
      • I didn't realize the transflash was so difficult to remove- or to use in an SD player. Without that, the camera becomes worthless to me, making this the most expensive cellular modem ever for my main purpose (as a companion to my other bluetooth devices- the PDA and the GPS- in my Scott E Vest). Perhaps when this doesn't sell, they'll have one without the camera...

  • I am OUTRAGED (Score:3, Funny)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:03PM (#10141944) Journal
    How DARE they refuse to offer me a feature I don't want!

    GREEDY BASTARDS!

    Is bluetooth not "Beta" to 802.11s "VHS" anyways?
    • *Is bluetooth not "Beta" to 802.11s "VHS" anyways?*

      the answer is: no.

      different tech different uses.

  • crappy photos to (Score:5, Informative)

    by oneishy ( 669590 ) <jczebota&oneishy,com> on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:05PM (#10141960) Homepage

    It's not only the bluetooth support that is lacking. The colors in the camera [jehiah.com] are really bad to!

    oh... and you can use iSync with the usb cable [google.com], just not over bluetooth

  • Business model? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zorilla ( 791636 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:06PM (#10141969)
    What I don't see is how their business model suffers when a phone's feature exists by default and an extra effort is needed to reduce functionality. They're the ones setting the price, anyway. (since the firmware is being crippled by Verizon, not the OEM, right?)

    It's not like it's a customer service issue. They use flashcards for that anyway.
    • well if one revenue stream for you is picture messaging.. or retrieving the pictures from the phone.. then it pretty much deletes that revenue from your (stupid) business model if the customer can easily copy the files off the phone without paying you.

      so they have gone through extra effort to make it harder to get the pictures out of 'their' system without paying them.
      • Because of the Transflash card slot, you can trivially copy the pictures & ringtones anyway.

        Any way you look at it, it has the look and feel of a PHB decision. Its illogical, it doesn't protect any revenue stream, and causes the phone to be less useful for no good reason.

  • As an owner of this phone... (Score:5, Informative)

    by DaHat ( 247651 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:06PM (#10141973)
    I've been quite happy with this phone since my purchase of it a month ago, I wish it had full Bluetooth support and I was told only yesterday by customer service that an update will be out in 3-4 weeks to enable full Bluetooth support.

    Syncing of phonebook here I come!

  • NYNEX Still SUX (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:07PM (#10141980) Homepage Journal
    Verizon's business model is to force people to place all communications through *them*, regardless of the sensibility of that network model. They're protecting their wireless empire as hamfistedly as they protected their dialup model, charging people 10x for "data lines" for modems over 9600bps, seeking Congressional protection from "always on" ISPs, crushing DSL competition. Too bad the WiFi genie's already out of the bottle. In the future, circuit-switched landlines and CDMA radios might only serve as backups, when our fibers and WiFi associations fail. With luck, the DSL conquest won't be repeated by Verizon Wireless, since colocation infrastructure isn't as necessary.

  • Maybe they should have dubbed... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:09PM (#10141997)
    ...their crippled version BlueBalls. All that promise of sexy features, getting everyone excited, then not delivering the goods.

  • Nothing New from Verizon (Score:5, Informative)

    by retsaMedoC ( 107951 ) <retsamedoc@digit ... LIONrg minus cat> on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:10PM (#10142008)
    This isn't the first time Verizon Wireless has crippled a phone. Motorola's T720 phone was also the victim of a nasty hack. The T720 was designed to use Java and Verizon uses Qualcomm's Brew for their Get It Now service. Java was stripped from the phone, not to mention other features like being able to recieve pictures via SMS Messages or the builtin web browser.

  • ringtones (Score:5, Interesting)

    by linuxpng ( 314861 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:11PM (#10142019)
    I was pretty disappointed to find out they strip midi files from incoming emails. Making it impossible to send yourself free ringtones.. It's even worse that certain polyphonic phones can't receive SMS messages with midi files either. I had to resort to a motorola phone programmer and USB cable. It's unfortunate, alot of people would never go that route to get a dollar ringtone into their phone.

    • Re:ringtones (Score:4, Informative)

      by liquidsin ( 398151 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:21PM (#10142125) Homepage
      I use Telus (Canadian provider) and they did the same to me with an Ericsson T206. They don't actually tell you that they've fucked up the phone - you have to find that out for yourself. They decided it was more profitable to remove the ringtone composer that Sony put on the phone, as well as the ability to send ringtones via SMS, leaving only one option for getting new ringtones - buy them on the Telus website for $1.50 each. Rat bastards.

    • Re:ringtones (Score:3, Interesting)

      by CodeBuster ( 516420 )
      It's unfortunate, alot of people would never go that route to get a dollar ringtone into their phone.

      The telcos and their investors are COUNTING on that. You are the rare and statistically insignificant slashdotter who actually figures out how the technology works. 99.9% of the people out their will simply pay the $1. The whole cell phone business is based upon hassling people so that they make a small payment in exchange for not being hassled. Since all providers are nearly equally bad you are not as l

  • Greedy bastards? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Since when is it such a crime to not implement unprofitable features? If you don't like it, buy a different phone.

    • Re:Greedy bastards? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Skye16 ( 685048 )
      Or, you could always use your first amendment rights to complain that the only viable wireless carrier in your area has hamstrung the only bluetooth phone that it offers.
    • What if Verizon is the only carrier in the area?

      For that matter, why do you need to buy your phone from the company so it will work? Why can't you buy *any* phone, insert your SIM, and use *any* service provider?

      I think it's time to let the government do what it's good at (creating and maintaining infrastructure) and let corporations do what they're good at (providing services based on the infrastructure).

      I mean, it's not like FedEx built the roads or anything.

  • I blame that evil bastard, the feature Creep.

  • Confucius say (Score:5, Funny)

    by Julian Morrison ( 5575 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:14PM (#10142053)
    ..."if honorable business model depends on building a toll-gate where there are open roads to left and right, soon will have new business model involving burgers and fries"
  • I'm on a streak today... what's another "Damn the man" post?

    Verizon's one of the most stuffy and non-innovative telecom companies out there. Everyone I've ever dealt with in their service/sales departments has always had the "I know what's best for you" attitude, and really didn't want to take the time to figure out what I was actually asking for and if/how they could make it happen.

  • vote with your wallet (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:14PM (#10142064) Homepage Journal
    buy unhindered phones.

    or well, if you really like the walled garden aproach then why not, sure, give them away dollars for doing some simple stuff like moving data few feet. if their services are otherwise very cheap then as a customer it could make sense to cave into feature reductions like this, but i doubt it.

    this is also why on some phones it's a bitch to get the pictures out even if the manufacturer could have very very cheapily added usb or whatever connectivity. it's left out intentionally so the networks that want walled gardens can feel good about them.

    and if you claim that things like this are needed to make running a network profitable/possible.. that's just pure bullshit. you don't even need locked phones for fast adaptation, hell, i'd argue that locked phones being illegal make for a faster adaption.. much easier to compare a) handset prices b) network prices (=less bullshit hidden costs pricing).

    oh and if you start with the "i'd only buy a linux based phone", the 'linux' phones coming are locked up tight - tighter than smartphones available now.
    • And provider... like in the current marketplace?

      My iDEN phone is pretty cool but Nextel seems to also be really wanting end-users to use their GPRS network at outrageous rates for everything, and disabling any quasi-useful wired connectivity.
      IE, if I want to send a MIDI as a ringtone without using it's web connectivity I have to use a hacked developer tool to trick it.
      Or their two-tiered internet access, where the first tier is just their wap-only intranet. And the second tier is still really restricted.

      A

    • ...they'd be glad to charge you the regular rate and not give you a phone.

      Maybe the trick is to keep getting the most expensive new phone and changing providers every single time your lock-in period expires?

    • This is why I love Finland. Bundling phones with subscriptions is not allowed here. So that means that I can buy whatever phone I wish, and I can use it with any operator I wish. None of that "If you want to use our service, you have to use this phone"-crap. If I were to change my operator tomorrow, they would only provide me with a new SIM-card. I replace the old SIM with the new SIM and presto: I'm now using the new operators services!

      And yes, the phone-calls are cheap here. And the phones aren't THAT ex

  • Verizon does not develop firmware (Score:3, Informative)

    by mrm677 ( 456727 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:15PM (#10142071)
    Verizon does not develop firmware for Motorola phones. However Motorola provides lots of internal software configuration options to allow service providers to customize features to suit their business model.

  • v710 hacker reward (Score:5, Interesting)

    by venicebeach ( 702856 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:15PM (#10142074) Homepage Journal
    If you didn't catch this from the nuclear elephant article, he's got a reward pot [nuclearelephant.com] going for anyone who can provide a hack to enable OBEX on the phone. I think this is a great idea... I would love to see Verizon lose control of this thing. I almost bought one of these things just to be able to sync my address book with bluetooth, and at the last minute my intuition (or experience with Verizon/Moto) saved me.

  • Golden handcuffs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JUSTONEMORELATTE ( 584508 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:17PM (#10142093) Homepage
    I first got cellular from U S WEST Cellular, which was sold to AirTouch, which was sold to Verizon.
    I'm still on a calling plan from the original U S WEST contracts, so I have three phones, sharing 600 minutes for around US$60 per month after taxes.
    Right now, I've got a Nokia from Verizon with a firmware mod to prevent any ringtones or BREW apps from running, except through the Verizon BUY IT NOW! downloader. I'd dump 'em in a heartbeat if I could get service from anyone else for a comparable price, but as it is I just use 'em for phone service and I miss out on the fancy phone features fun.

  • Small computers (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zorilla ( 791636 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:18PM (#10142105)
    What phone companies need to realize is that phone are becoming more and more like small personal computers. They have their own set of multimedia capabilities. Take sound for example. First it was a piezoelectric 1 bit speaker, then FM polyphonic sound, now PCM audio. Hell, in Japan, I've seen quite a few phones that have TV tuners. Point being that they now have capabilities similar to desktop computers and need the same freedoms to operatate like them. That includes unrestricted data transfer, creation (ringtones, backgrounds, java games). Imagine being able to store files on your phone in a format not initially supported by it, but then having somebody write software to handle it. (Obvious /. examples being PNG backgrounds and Ogg Vorbis ringtones)

    I hope Verizon either adapts or dies in regards to this.
    • *Imagine being able to store files on your phone in a format not initially supported by it, but then having somebody write software to handle it.*

      I don't have to imagine - just reach for it.

      (thank god 'locked' phones and the bullshit with 'operator' branded phones is practically illeagal in
      Finland)
  • My Treo 600 reportedly has everything to support Bluetooth, including traces to blank spots on its mainboard. But I'll have to upgrade to a 650 sometime later this year to get it integrated. I thought Bluetooth economies of scale were scheduled to cost $5:device by now. Maybe the Verizon "business model" screwed the 600/Bluetooth, but then Verizon took so long to deploy it that Palm targeted Sprint, which doesn't seem to have a business model beyond customer abuse^Wservice thrift.
  • Does anyone know of an opcode to enable these features? The linked-to articles confirm that the phone supports the functionality, but Verizon has merely chosen to disable it.

    Anyone have a workaround other than a USB cable?

    • The BT profiles do not exist on the phone. That's why it doesn't work. If you could write the profiles, add it to the firmware, then flash the phone, you'd be set.

  • wait... don't get mad yet. (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Wait a minute... don't get mad yet. They are just a major corporation that has implemented a highly sought after buzzword in a highly profitable market while ignoring open standards so they can make more money.

    What's wrong with that?!
  • is it really crippled by not having obex? correct me if i'm wrong, but obex isn't part of the bluetooth standard is it?

    isn't that like saying hp was planning on shipping a crippled computer because it didn't have a mail reader installed?

    • It's more like shipping a computer on which you can't install a mail reader. And oh by the way, you have to use our ISP as well. Oh, and you have to use our printer if you want those pictures too.

  • I go way back to the Airtouch days. I've been a loyal customer for close to 12 years. More recently, I've anxiously been awaiting Verizon to stock one of the upcoming Motorola Linux PDA phones. But if this is a sign of Verizon's "business model", perhaps its time to change... once my contract expires, that is.
    • So many people are griping about VZW on these threads. In my experience they have the best, most reliable coverage and the largest footprint. I know now that AT&T Wireless and Cingular have joined forces their network might be more encompassing. But CDMA coverage far surpasses GSM in terms of transmission strength and range. Look at T-Mobile as an example. Go inside any most buildings and try using their service. Drop city. GSM at its finest.

      Sprint uses CDMA and has a decent footprint. But their towers
    • I must concur. The reason I've been with Airtouch (and now Verizon) for so long has been the coverage. I have a wireless data card for my notebook too and it rocks (way better upload than my DSL). Verizon's problem isn't their coverage. Anytime my friends on other networks have no reception of dropped calls, I have perfect reception. But, being a techie geek, I want all the new toys too... and I definitely don't want a cell phone feature crippled. I'll wait and see. Supposedly all the newer Motorola Linux P

  • I have the phone, here's my comments (Score:3, Informative)

    by tkrotchko ( 124118 ) * on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:35PM (#10142290) Homepage
    The real practical limitation of the lack of OBEX is that the phone can't exchange its internal phonebook over BT, so if you have a BT implementation in your car, you have to re-enter your phone book in the car.

    As to the limitation its really dumb for one simple reason: The phone support data exchange via a memory card, so you can move ringtones, pictures, and even MP3's to the phone to be used as an MP3 player.

    If Verizon is intentially crippling this phone, its only crippled for people who can't be bothered to copy the stuff via either USB or the memory card. I suppose that means impatient teens.

    For the rest of us who want to take advantage of the advanced features, its stupid and insulting, since it doesn't do what they think it does, and it really limits the BT flexibility.

    Its still a nice phone though.
  • I just ordered one of these after reading a post somewhere about an upgrade coming on or around Sept. 4th. It is said the update will include many of these missing features.

    I will be very upset if this phone stays crippled.

    -Pete

  • From the horse's mouth (Score:4, Interesting)

    by davmoo ( 63521 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:40PM (#10142344)
    If Verizon is indeed purposely crippling bluetooth, and has no plans to "fix" it, then they need to be looked at for false advertising. From their own website I quote:

    "And with Bluetooth wireless technology, you can make hands-free, eyes-free calls, and connect to your PC or PDA whenever and wherever you want."
  • Not to troll, but honestly. Isn't it perhaps just a rung on the ladder above IR transmission? I mean the range, security, etc. isn't anything to do handsprings about. The only people I typically hear ranting and raving about Bluetooth are PHB and other execs who like cashing in on buzzwords so they sound savvy.

    I personally would hope for eventual adoption of the 802.11i standard so that wifi has added security. Once that happens why not add that feature onto phones? After all most of the dataflow PHB's and
    • Bluetooth and WIFI aren't competing technologies, per se. Bluetooth is meant to be a short range cable replacement technology. Hence the new breeds of cordless mice/keyboards, cordless headsets, cordless synching and small file transfers. I rely on bluetooth for synching my p900 with my SUSE 9.1 laptop. It works flawlessly and without fuss. WIFI is poor for cordless type connections, because then every device requires an IP to be programmed. I doubt you'll see any WIFI mice or keyboards anytime soon. (make
    • OBEX is really useful for transferring phone numbers to a friend's phone. While you can do this fine with IR, the non-hassle of not having to aim up the slightly illogical parts of the phones where the IR ports have been hidden suddenly makes this a useful feature. Bluetooth headsets and so on are also useful.
  • I would rather have my verizon phone get a strong signal at my friends house, then have it turn into a mini computer. Ringtones, and vCards, and blue tooth are all nice, but its completely pointless when I can't get a call. Verizon should spend more money on coverage and making sure that their system works than implementing options, that way maybe I won't randomly get voicemail messages that were sent two days before.

  • How to get out of your Verizon contract early... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ElGuapoGolf ( 600734 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @03:58PM (#10142522) Homepage

    This works, swear to god.

    About 3 years ago, one of their account people noticed that my contract had expired and I was a month to month customer. He called me, pushing a new 2 year contract. I didn't really want it, but he swore new bluetooth phones were coming that fall. Since I wanted bluetooth, and none of the other carriers had good coverage in my area, I figured why not... the new plan was cheaper and all. Seemed good.

    Cut to 2 years later, with 6 months left on my contract. I have a Bluetooth PDA, laptop, and the car I was expecting delivery of (Prius) had the Bluetooth Handsfree in it. There were rumors of a Motorola with bluetooth coming soon on the Verizon network, but I couldn't risk it. I had to get out. Here's what I did...

    I emailed customer support. Sounds simple, right? But the beauty of this is, a real live person emails you back. Sure, it's a form letter at first, but if you keep emailing back, and keep bringing up your original points (bluetooth, customer rep lied to me, etc), they'll go off script.

    And clearly they underestimated my resolve to keep hammering at them. It cost me nothing to email them. They had customer service reps spending time trying to figure out how to respond. The time they spent with me couldn't be used for other customers... And, honestly, it was funny as hell for me.

    After nearly 2 dozen back and forth emails, they agreed to let me out of the contract early. I switched to Cingular, and now have an uncrippled and fully functional bluetooth phone. And a signal. Life is good.
  • Shame, I was going to get a new phone and a new provider (just moved states), I was heavily leaning towards Verizon until reading about this situation.

    What a shame. Why is the telco industry so darned screwed up, it seems uniquely stuffed up.

  • This is bogus and untrue OBEX will be enabled. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GhengisCohen ( 778368 ) on Thursday September 02, 2004 @04:23PM (#10142732)
    Verizon is releasing thing phone with some features disabled, they will be enabled in November for full compliance including OBEX come November. Will someone fact check before this is posted. They released that information last monday. -GReg

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