Sun Opens Modeling Tools 112
twofish writes "According to the Register, Sun is set to open source a few modeling tools, including their UML modeler, XML infrastructure and visual editing tools, and BPEL tools. The software, part of the planned Java Studio Enterprise 9.0, will made available for download as part of Sun's NetBeans Enterprise Pack." From the article: "By open sourcing its UML tools Sun is continuing its push against the rival Eclipse open source tools framework. The Eclipse Foundation has pushed UML and model-driven architectures for some time via the Eclipse Tools Project. The project encompasses an open source implementation of UML, called UML2, and a modeling framework and code-generation facility to build tools and applications that use a structured data model - called the Eclipse Modeling Framework (EMF)."
EMF? (Score:5, Funny)
Unfair (Score:4, Informative)
Made me laugh anyway - sorry, no mod points today.
Re:Unfair (Score:1)
Re:EMF? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:EMF? (Score:2)
Re:EMF? (Score:2)
Re:EMF? (Score:2)
I thought people would be scared for Sun that MS might sue them or some flame at least.
LOL
What about the XML tools? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What about the XML tools? (Score:1)
Re:What about the XML tools? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What about the XML tools? (Score:2)
Re:What about the XML tools? (Score:2)
Re:What about the XML tools? (Score:2)
I know it's not free, but for the price, it's an excellent tool.
Re:What about the XML tools? (Score:2)
Anyone who's doing XML work should check it out.
Re:What about the XML tools? (Score:2)
Re:What about the XML tools? (Score:2)
Extensibility (Score:2)
As a starving non-pro, my exposure to UML has been the MS Visio implementation.
Visio is a great tool, up until you'd like to do something with the UML that wasn't intended by the authors, like writing a custom report against the model. Then you get that sad "I am baked" feeling.
A robust, open tool would be welcome.
Re:Extensibility (Score:4, Funny)
I never feel sad when I get than feeling.
Re:Extensibility (Score:1)
Re:Extensibility (Score:2)
But then again I have yet to find a really good UML modeler.
Re:Extensibility (Score:1)
Re:Extensibility (Score:1)
Re:Extensibility (Score:2)
I'm interested in exploring the python programmability.
Enterprise Architect (Score:1)
UML2 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:UML2 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:UML2 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:UML2 (Score:2)
Re:Too little momentum (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
Eclipse should not take that long to start up on any reasonably configured modern machine. If it takes more than 20-30 seconds, something is seriously wrong.
But there is another point - IDEs are among the most complex applications - they include plug-in tools, application servers, debuggers and so on. Such tools can be 'dogs' no matter what language they are w
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
The JVM is tiny, and Java typically only loads the individual classes it needs as it needs them. This means you can ignore the size of the class libraries. Java is the language of choice for mobile devices because it can be so small.
As for Jedit... I'd say 5 seconds... and that's for a *fucking* text editor.
On the same machine the Kate KDE text edit
Re:Too little momentum (Score:5, Interesting)
Eclipse is not what you may think it is. Eclipse is the community front-end for the expensive IBM WSAD environment. Most of the places I've worked that use Eclipse do so because they see it as an alternative to the WSAD tools, and they're using WebSphere as the eventual platform; which is truly irrelevant if the software is written corectly.
NetBeans is much more like it looks. Formerly it was the community front-end for Sun's expensive Forte environment, but Sun has since abandoned that for truly the community-driven IDE, backing it with every visit to the JDK download page. And it works just fine with all of the Java application/servlet environments, whether Sun released them or not.
NetBeans is also pure Java, written on Swing, while Eclipse uses its proprietary SWT, which uses native calls to get its GUI work done. You can take the same archive of NetBeans to any J2SE-enabled desktop and it'll work. Not so with Eclipse. Because of this, it's easier to adopt new releases and plug-ins in NetBeans than it is for Eclipse. Many of the third-party add-ons for Eclipse assume or require Windows, and therefore don't work on LINUX, Solaris, Mac, or any of the other envornments. Not so with NetBeans; the plug-ins are also Java, so they work everywhere NetBeans does.
I was a long-time advocate of NetBeans before Eclipse came in to dominate the workplace. Eclipse does win some robustness categories, and its rapid-development bits are a little better (auto-complete/suggest kicks over NetBeans), but both are modular and extendable, and NetBeans has usually come with the tools needed to get the job done before Eclipse has (early GUI editor, and built-in Tomcat, Ant, JUnit...).
And, yes, I do most of my development in Eclipse, but I check out each release of NetBeans, and even try to continue to evangelize it.
Try not to be one who thinks that everyone should just join the "leader" as it often stifles competition, advances, and options. Someday Eclipse will catch up and have a GUI editor, BEPL and UML GUI tools, and some of the other flexibilites that NetBeans 5.5 [netbeans.info] has now.
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
There are many more upgrade paths from the Eclipse IDE than WSAD. But buying the for-pay IDE atop Eclipse isn't actually the point. Look at the technology underneath Eclipse: dynamic extensible plug-ins and OSGi service bundles. It is a platform where one tool can easily extend and integrate with others.
Yes, you can take the same NetBeans jar file and run the installer on Linux and Windows with equal ease. So what? I can download the correct Eclipse SDK for either of those platforms just like you'd ha
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
I find your definition odd. Eclipse is an IDE for Java development. My team and I use it to develop server applications, JBoss services, and SWT - based GUIs. At a previous job, I worked with people who were using it as a C++ development environment. I actually had to google for "WSAD" to even know what you were even talking about.
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
Eclipse is more than an IDE. In fact, I am pretty sure that the IDE is just another plugin that runs inside the framework to allow you to edit java code. Eclipse is an application framework that makes developi
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
What's this "it" that I don't get? I was simply saying that Eclipse is an IDE for Java development. I was responding to someone who seemed to think it was primarily a "gateway drug" to WSAD. None of the developers I've worked with see it this way.
Eclipse is an application framework that makes developing applications (I mean complete end to end applications) much easier.
Indeed. We use the Eclipse framework for our GUI applications. Like you said, not WSAD applications. But wh
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
This is a *good* thing, and one of the main reasons I used Eclipse instead of NetBeans for my last Java product.
First, calling SWT proprietary is disingenuous; it's still open source, no? Or am I just horribly misinformed?
If anything, it's Swing and Java itself that's proprietary.
Anyway, I'm a big fan of native widgets. It's somewhat superficial, but one of the big reasons I
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
So does Swing - this is how the underlying AWT API works.
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
If you how to target WebSphere in an efficient manner without using RAD 6 (successor to WSAD), could you elaborate?
My company has 'standardized' on WebSphere, but my team mates and I would love to use something other than IBM's development tools.
Unfortunately, using another cont
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
It's funny how this stupidity continues to get thrown around by Netbeans fanboys. Because we all know that Java-Swing actually uses no native code *rolls-eyes*. I guess that just continues the "fine" McNealy/Sun tradition of saying that "Java is the platform, and the OS is irrelevant". Oh, and nice how SWT is suddenly "proprietary".
Sun must really be getting nervous about
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
Eclipse has enough quirks and bugs to justify having Netbeans around. Just have the Netbeans lot decide to support other languages better than Eclipse and integrate jEdit and Netbeans is on top again. I'm currently doing PHP stuff with Eclipse and while it's nice for free it certainly isn't the bar for OSS IDEs. There is plenty of room for Netbeans and I don't see the 'momentum' you're talking about taking any effect on real-world usability of eclipse. They even still don't have a devent FTP connectivity
Netbeans the dark horse (Score:1)
Re:Netbeans the dark horse (Score:1)
MyEclipse [myeclipseide.com] which costs money, and Eclipse's own WST [eclipse.org]. So yeah, trying to get plain old Eclipse and Java to work well with J2EE stuff is difficult, but the tools I just mentioned are very well supported.
I can just as easily start working in C++ with Eclipse, because it's not designed for any one language. Th
Vehmently disagree (Score:2)
The fact is that NB has a good chunk of the IDE space and has been trending up recently. It's far from out of the picture.
It's also where innovation has been happening recently - Matisse, the UML and BIPL tools. Eclipse has been positively stagnant by comparison.
Re:Too little momentum (Score:5, Interesting)
The statistics of IDE use disagree with you. Both Eclipse and NetBeans have very strong momentum. NetBeans use has been increasing dramatically recently. The reason? NetBeans has so much included in the base system, such as J2EE development and GUI designers. With NetBeans 4, powerful refactoring facilities were added (at last!), and with NetBeans 5 there is now one of the best GUI designers (Matisse) ever released.
It is important for the future health of Java development that there should be a choice of quality IDEs. If there is just one, then it can have excessive influence. A recent example of this was Eclipse's late support for Java 1.5. Many developers held back on the use of Java 1.5 because Eclipse did not support it.
Eclipse is the most widely used Java IDE, but NetBeans (and others, such as IntelliJ) are very widely used as well.
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
I'm not talking IDE use, I'm talking open source tools platform. While I personally prefer the Eclipse IDE to the NetBeans IDE, having actually coded for each as a platform, I can offer an opinion from experience: the Eclipse programming model makes just makes it easier to get things done. Most vendors seem to agree, which is why, with the exception of Sun, all the major Java vendors are Eclipse Foundation members [eclipse.org] (including my employer--naturally my opinions are my own).
Compare NetBeans [netbeans.org] on this footing
Re:Too little momentum (Score:2)
Compare NetBeans on this footing and
why sun spends so much money on software (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:why sun spends so much money on software (Score:2)
StarOffice/OpenOffice.org are mainly a spear in the side of Microsoft.
Their J2EE is the reference implementation others are measured by.
I'm not sure Sun has much superfluous software, outside of a couple projects here and there I haven't really figured out what they are for.
Re:why sun spends so much money on software (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:why sun spends so much money on software (Score:2)
As for the company, well they got the stuffing beat out of them but I feel that they are knocking the dust off their pants and and getting back into the game (same with HP in the server market, IMNSHO). The new hardware is very nice and back on my short list which it hasn't been for a looooong time and while you
Sun spends so much money on wrong software (Score:2)
Re:Visual Editor (Score:2)
No, it really isn't. NetBeans Matisse GUI editor is recognised as being one of the best ever developed.
Competition: how things should work (Score:5, Insightful)
It is a sad reminder of Microsoft's (criminal) monopoly, and the governments unwillingness to intervene, that for the vast majority of consumers, there has been very little of this "competitive energy" in the Operating System space. Sure, they can buy an Apple, but even there
I'm running a nice 3-d enhanced desktop (Xgl) in Linux, but I see Windows users have another six months, minimum, to see anything comperable.
Imagine what the tech world would be like if the Operating System market was as competitive as NetBeans vs. Eclipse.
Re:Competition: how things should work (Score:2)
Open Open Development Development (Score:5, Interesting)
Where's the adapter code that plugs each development platform's modules into the other's framework? This is the best case for open software discarding arbitrary vendor boundaries I've ever heard.
Great news... (Score:1, Flamebait)
A tool, only in the derogatory sense of the word
Thanks (Score:1)
Modelling Tools? (Score:1)
Re:Modelling Tools? (Score:2)
Good thing! (Score:2, Interesting)
There has always been need for a great open source UML modeling tool, hopefully people will start designing 'more' with tools like this readily available. Other tools experience:
Re:Does anyone really use UML? (Score:2, Insightful)
a) Understood by most systems designers
b) Under by pretty much every developer I work with
c) Specific enough to be able to communicate fairly complex designs with, generic enough that it lends itself well to things (like distributed asynchronous messaging based systems) that it wasn't designed for.
Beats the hell out of re-inve
Re:Does anyone really use UML? (Score:5, Informative)
You mean like source to the jdk, [java.net] j2ee, [sun.com] and [sun.com] various [sun.com] reference [sun.com] implementations? [sun.com]
Re:Does anyone really use UML? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does anyone really use UML? (Score:2)
Yeah, because *nobody* is using Java [sun.com]. Brr!.
Re:Does anyone really use UML? (Score:5, Informative)
You have got to be joking. Apart from the fact that anyone can download the source code for Java, they have open sourced huge amounts. Solaris is very widely used, especially in commercial environments. NetBeans is a very widely used Java IDE, and there is, of course Open Office.
Re:Does anyone really use UML? (Score:1)
Re:Does anyone really use UML? (Score:2)
Re:Just wanna make sure... (Score:4, Interesting)
Why do some people think that companies trying to make money is a dirty little secret? Its the whole point!
Re:Just wanna make sure... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Just wanna make sure... (Score:2)
I'm an outsider here as I don't like Java at all but Sun has forthrightly stated, at least in the software developement publications that I read that this is no way, shape, or form their intent. They (now) openly acknowledge that Eclipse seems to be the framework/IDE of choice of the Java community (at least you people have a by God real community, too!) but they intend to provide t
Re: (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:UML, model-driven architectures? (Score:2, Informative)
Unified Modelling language is used by Analysts, Architects and QA to ensure that an application will support the user or business processes that are required for the organization. It is best if it is used from the Requirements gathering stage onwards.
Use Cases are used to determine Actors (Objects) and Actions (methods) and to identify business rules and requrements which may need to be enforced programmatically. The use cases will result in specifications, which go
Re:UML, model-driven architectures? (Score:2)
Re:UML, model-driven architectures? (Score:2)
Re:UML, model-driven architectures? (Score:2)
Re:Sun software tools... (Score:1)
Sorry, they run only on an abacus. Thankfully, UML is 2-D, because the 3-D acceleration routines cause carpal tunnel syndrome after abour four hours of modeling. In 2-D, well trained abacus operators can run at least 12 hours, covering a good work day.
Re:Sun software tools... (Score:1)
Re:Sun software tools... (Score:2)
Re:Is it Java? (Score:2)