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Programmed Sentencing in China
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Sep 14, 2006 01:26 PM
from the enjoy-your-stay-in-the-bighouse-meatbag dept.
from the enjoy-your-stay-in-the-bighouse-meatbag dept.
An anonymous reader writes to mention a unique combination of coding and social justice. A court in China has been using software to mete out sentences in criminal cases. The program has been in use for almost two years, and has passed judgement in some 1,500 cases. From the article: "'The software can avoid abuse of discretionary power of judges as a result of corruption or insufficient training,' the paper quoted Zichuan District Court chief judge, Wang Hongmei, as saying. But some Chinese newspapers criticized the move as a farce that highlighted the 'laziness of the court' and that would not curb judicial corruption as touted."
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Forever Loop? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Forever Loop? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Yay human rights! (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh wait....
Re:Yay human rights! (Score:5, Insightful)
It sounds like this can be a tool to help standardize the application of the law, which varies widely from place to place. That's a step in the right direction. No, it's not going to result in a "perfect" legal system, but it could help improve things.
Parent
Re:Yay human rights! (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Life Imitates Futurama (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Paranoia (Score:2)
Had me worried for a moment (Score:2)
I was thinking, man, when they say no Hungarian notation, they mean it!
Re: (Score:2)
Why does this make me think of (Score:2)
Sentencing Methodology (Score:5, Funny)
Moo (Score:5, Funny)
defendant = defendant.getNext();
defendant.innocent = (defendant.powerful || defendant.powerful);
if (!defendant.innocent) firingSquad.add(defendant);
else firingSquad.add(prosecutor);
}
No Whammies!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
now thats what I call (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Sounds Insane: (Score:5, Insightful)
We live in a world where we are all criminals. Don't think you break any laws? Think again. Everyone who is old enough to read this post has broken many laws in their life, even if they were minor laws.
When you live in a world where everyone is a criminal, the idea of a computer judge is very scary. The computer will not be able to make common sense decisions about what needs to be done to arrive at the judgement that is best for everyone.
In a world with imperfect laws, enforcing the laws perfectly is immoral, unjust, and IMHO, just insane.
'There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with'.
- Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged"
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, don't worry, they know. This is just the first step. The next step is to have the laws written by computer programs, and then both the law and its enforcement will be perfect.
It will be a beautiful utopia...
Oh, hold on, there's an Enforce-o-bot at my door, come to execute me. Seems I'm guilty of excessive sarcasm. Which is true. See, the system works!
Don't worry, this is about software (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see how that applies here.
From my reading of the article, the software does not enforce laws, it enforces standardized sentencing.
My understanding is that the software only plays a role once guilt has already been determined. Its meant to prevent the local judges (who, as the article stated often haven't even been to law school) from imposing arbitrary prison sentences. The details of the crime are submitted and the program returns the sentence according to the established st
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds good for me, all I have to do is arrest all of the opponent's followers. Spitting on the sidewalk? Swearing on Sunday? Hitching your horse to a public post? There are thousands of century old laws on the books in cities, states, and even at the federal level that have no place in modern America, just waiting to be exploited.
This is such a stupid quote. The primary power the government has is TAXES not criminal crackdowns.
If there was no crackdown, who would pay the taxes? Whi
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds good for me, all I have to do is arrest all of the opponent's followers.
And exactly how are you goint to determine that? And exactly how are you going to make that happen without the opposition party making sure it doesn't happen? And exactly why do you think your supporters would be in favor of you arresting everyone who opposes you?
Let's live slightly in reality here.
If there was no crackdown, who would pay the taxes? Which power begets the other?
Most people pay taxes out of social resp
Obligatory... (Score:2)
Defendant: "But I only jaywalked!"
Executioner: "The computer's judgement is final." ::readies blue tarp and axe::
The MS version (Score:5, Funny)
Not necessarily a bad idea... (Score:2)
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/art icles/2006/08/26/unusual_sentence_in_racial_attack / [boston.com]
laziness of the court? (Score:2)
What kind of penalty does the software mete out to Chinese reporters who dare question the wisdom or methods of the courts?
Not perfect, but a step in the right direction (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, the toughest part is creating a fair algorithm. But hey, in theory it has got potential.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Here's a prototype:
perl -e "$s = int(rand(99)); print qq(You are hereby sentenced to $s years of imprisonment\n)"
This code is released under the BSD license, feel free to deploy it as-is or modify to fit your needs.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Using a computer algorithm to determine sentences is ridiculous. No two cases are the same, which means that there are an incredible number of variables. Furthermore, even if we could isolate all the variables, we still would have no idea how to make an algorithm that would take them all into account.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It's a guide and a method to keep tabs on the judicial record. I view it with cautious optimism.
Ah no.... (Score:3, Interesting)
linear?
quadratic?
logarihtmic?
If shoplifting a $20 "X" is a crime, when what about a CEO embezzling 100s of millions?
Firing squad for the whole family? Execution by worms?
Or what about murder? Even accidents involving negligence are punished... How should an army captain be punished? Or a police capatin?
In communist china (Score:4, Funny)
Another reason to check your credit report now (Score:2)
On an aside, one may order a consumer copy of their credit report from each of the three major credit bureaus free of charge per year at http://www.annualcreditreport.com/ [annualcreditreport.com] (one tip is to order a report from a different credit bureau every 4 months)
Ron
AccuVote == AccuPenalty? (Score:2)
We already do this in the U.S.... (Score:5, Interesting)
...but we call it electronic voting [wikipedia.org]. The sentences have much bigger consequences, but are revised every four years.
(tongue firmly planted in cheek!)
OT: A Corruption Story (Score:2)
So, the way accounting set things up was that they figuratively disconnected the accounting and logistics BOM/shipping/receiving systems such that the information provided for physical goods could not be accurate. How is that possible you may wonder? W
It can't happen here. (Score:2)
Anonymous huh? (Score:2)
Anyone else find it interesting that the author of a post about Chinese government policies is Anonymous?
Here's what I want to know..... (Score:2)
Dr Theophilus (Score:2)
I was?
I am so very ashamed.
We already do this in America (Score:2)
A similar system in the Netherlands (Score:5, Interesting)
To help prosecutors in demanding a punishment that fits the crime, and more importantly to have prosecutors demand the same punishment in similar cases, regardless of jurisdiction, there's a piece of software to help them out. Just enter the specifics of the case, and the software will work out the sentence you should ask for based on a) guidelines given out by the national government, and b) comparisons to similar cases from a historical database.
Now, the software just comes up with a suggestion, so the prosecutor can still say "well, in similar cases people have gotten 6 years in jail, but this guy's a real asshole based on characteristics I can't fill in on these forms, so he deserves to raise the average". Or the prosecutor can decide to stay on the lenient side. Whichever way though, if there's a discrepency from guidelines+case law, he'll have to explain it.
Now, ultimately, it's still in the judge's hands. The judge may attach greater weight to certain mitigating circumstances, and less to others, and come up with a different sentence. But the judge is also aware of the guidelines and statistics.
The reason for such a system is to increase the dependability of the judicial system. If two people commit the same crime, in the same manner, for the same reasons, and in the same circumstances, they should get the same punishment; justice, after all, should be blind.
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Cloud, silver lining, and all that.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe if a committe of legal scholars reviewed the cases to make sure the computer was doing what it was programmed, but that's a whole system to administer.
Distance (Score:2)
Human oversight would be better than nothing, bu
Computer as excuse to evade human responsibility (Score:2)