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Adobe Open Sources Flex SDK Under MPL

Posted by kdawson on Thu Apr 26, 2007 09:36 AM
from the for-real dept.
Software
andy_from_nc writes "Adobe announced that they are open sourcing their Flex SDK under the Mozilla Public License incrementally by December. This move comes on the heels of Microsoft's announcement of their Silverlight and Adobe's CEO's criticism of it. Adobe's action will likely please other open source developers who use Flex, like me, and offers hope that we'll see a full open source version of Flash one day. You can read Adobe's FAQ on the move as well."
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[+] Microsoft To Open Source Some of Silverlight 204 comments
Kurtz writes with word that Microsoft is about to follow in Adobe's footsteps by releasing the source code to part of its Silverlight technology. The news comes less than a week after Adobe announced plans to open source the Flex SDK. Microsoft is hungry to build the developer base for its rich Internet app tools, if it can.
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  • Game UI (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Aladrin (926209) on Thursday April 26 2007, @09:40AM (#18884533)
    I've seen some talk lately about using Flash to create GUIs for games and other 3D apps. I would think that open-sourcing Flex would get those same people to think about using it instead. I think this is probably a pretty solid move for Adobe and will drive adoption of Flex quite a bit faster.

    The ability to improve it yourself definitely doesn't hurt, either.
    • I think it's a solid move, but there are some things here that give me pause. Part of the reason HTML and CSS have worked so well for the internet is because View Source is always available. AS a compiled technology, that's not true here. XAML extends the basic principles of HTML, with spiffy graphic tools, but keeps the same basic markup structure and semantics as HTML/CSS.

      Now, since Microsoft isn't about to open XAML, that's a quandary, but I would love to see Flex integrated directly into Firefox/XUL to
  • Does Flex have db access? If so this might make a fun alternative to using JAVA w/ Swing for creating portable applications for viewing datasets.
    • OpenLaszlo [openlaszlo.org], a opensource toolkit that takes declaritive XML and compiles it to SWF. What it can do for datasets and backend interactivity is just awesome. Recommended cause it's neat plus it's way saner then HTML (imho), as long you're doing applications and not semantic stuff, this is where it's at. mmm. replication managers.

      • Re:Do you mean OpenLaszlo (Score:5, Interesting)

        by yossie (93792) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:55AM (#18885899)
        Openlaszlo does all this, of course, and much like Flex, OpenLaszlo can output a Web2.0 app as a flash file requiring a flash plugin to run BUT it can ALSO output a dhtml file (which will run in all modern browsers) requiring NO plugin. There is a commitment to output Java ME as well, in the near future. You really have to see OpenLaszlo apps in dhtml to understand how powerful dhtml can be - Google apps are boring and dull in comparison (though astonishingly functional, to be sure..) The fact that the same source will be able to compile into any of these (and more, there is even a proof-of-concept SVG output generator..) is not only unique but opens up choices that none of the other players in this field can.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by joshv (13017)
      This is exactly what my company does. We write custom front ends in flex to visualize data. Flex has extensive support for accessing server side data via various remoting APIs.

  • Not impressed (Score:3, Informative)

    by WindBourne (631190) on Thursday April 26 2007, @09:43AM (#18884577) Journal
    Adobe is putting small pieces on Linux (and other OSS), just when they feel attacked by MS. If they really wanted to keep doing well, they would move ALL of their work to Linux. Once they do that, they are no longer compete ting directly against MS IN MS's BACKYARD. That is a battle that adobe will lose if they try to take on MS directly.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by visualight (468005)
      I think that if they supported their CS suite (even if all they did was a winelib conversion) on Linux, Microsoft would be dead in three years.

      I would cheerfully pay Adobe for their userland apps that are supported on Linux, opensource or not.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by stunt_penguin (906223)
        If Adobe's software was on Linux I'd definitely get Ubuntu on here and start using it. I'd still have to dual-boot to get to use 3DS MAX (which doesn't run well in Wine when pushed) but I could quite happily do 99% of my multimedia work.
      • This will happen as soon as Apple makes it possible to compile Linux-native applications from XCode. The persistent rumor is that this functionality has been there all along, just as being able to run on Intel chips was there all along. The code name for this ability back in NextStep days was "yellowbox." It would be ironic if Apple made yellowbox available for *nix and not Windows!

        • This will happen as soon as Apple makes it possible to compile Linux-native applications from XCode.

          In order to be able to run apps written for OSX on Linux you'd have to have several proprietary Apple APIs ported there. Not going to happen, and even if it did they'd be closed source.

      • if (they do X on Linux) { Microsoft would be dead in three years;}
        I say with no malice that this is the most naive statement I have read all week, and I follow President Bush's press announcements.
        • The weakest link here is my implied assertion that Adobe porting it's flagship product to Linux would be a catalytic event. And I don't think that's such a naive assertion, and, if it were to happen in the near future it would coincide with Microsoft being at what is arguably a weak point in its history.

          Also, 3 years is multiple development cycles for many major applications.
    • Do you mean move as in 'mv' or move as in 'cp'?

      If they no longer had MS products, they would lose a lot of market share.

      But adding Linux could gain some market share. Going open source could gain a lot more.

      In my oppinion the situation is just like it was with Mozilla/Netscape. The product before Open Source was ok, but bloated and buggy enough that I never felt compelled to use it over the alternatives. Within a year of going open source, they had the best product on the market.

      I look at Adobe products - I

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kripkenstein (913150)

      Adobe is putting small pieces on Linux (and other OSS), just when they feel attacked by MS.

      Reality isn't headlines on Slashdot (there goes my karma). Yes, we recently had a story about Microsoft's new supposed "Adobe-killer" technology. But it is extremely doubtful that this is related to Adobe's actions as mentioned in the current story. For one, actions such as this are planned far in advance. Also, ActionScript was already in the process of being open-sourced; Adobe simply see OSS as part of their over

      • And MS's actions are recent? I do not think so. They have been developing it for over a year. Adobe is simply reacting to MS. The fact that they have ported very little to any none (apple|windows) platforms says it all.
  • The FAQ is actually here [adobe.com].

  • You fell for it, huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) on Thursday April 26 2007, @09:48AM (#18884663)

    Adobe's action will likely please other open source developers who use Flex, like me, and offers hope that we'll see a full open source version of Flash one day.


    There's a sucker born every minute, isn't there.

    What Adobe has done by throwing an "open source" SDK bone is made it appear like they're leaning toward open-source Flash without actually giving away any of the crown jewels. Adobe's move is very much like the gigabyes of "open source" code samples Microsoft makes available in its extensive MSDN library: you can use and modify them for free, but you still need Microsoft's core (and proprietary) software to make them work.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by uss_valiant (760602)
      I think you underestimate the significance of this announcement. True, Adobe isn't open-sourcing Flash. But open-sourcing the Flex (MXML) compiler and SDK is still very important.

      MXML compiles into .swf (which runs in the normal Flash runtime). You won't get open-source Flash runtimes, but the compiled .swf files will be 100% open-source whereas right now, .swf files compiled from MXML still contain statically linked, non-FLOSS components in the same binary as your own (FLOSS) code.

      Also, you'll be abl

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by AKAImBatman (238306) *
      This *is* slightly better than you make it sound, as Adobe is effectively giving away a free development environment. However, this mostly just replaces the open source stuff like MTASC, so it's like it's earth shattering. But it is a step in the right direction. Especially since having a free SDK could save experienced developers thousands of dollars on purchasing Adobe's cruddy IDEs.
      • Maybe you should enlighten us as you seem to be the only one who thinks this is important.

      • Re:You fell for it, huh? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by EricTheGreen (223110) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:19AM (#18885167) Homepage
        Well, actually the GP has a point...Adobe isn't open-sourcing any of the server/data access/interop components. So while you might be able to freely assemble a great-looking webpage-embeddable UI, what use will it be without the ability to access/manipulate data stores and services? And if you can't do that...what's the point of using Flex in the first place? Wasn't it targeted at corp developer types? If all you want are pretty apps, wouldn't you be using the web designed-focused Flash tools in the first place?

        Sure it's great the SDK code will be freely available and inspectable; I'm all for transparency in software and its licensing. But Adobe has still locked up the middleware and will continue to charge an astronomical amount of money for it. And the tool won't be terribly useful without it, unless you're one of the wildman-types who rolls his own data access remoting. So the GP isn't that far off, at least in my opinion.

        What would be helpful for the dev community would be an FOSS interop gateway/platform where the remoting headaches have already been solved. Maybe it exists somewhere; if so, now would be a great publicity opportunity for it.

        (And yes, I've done Flex development before, so spare me the snarkiness...)

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by uss_valiant (760602)

          Adobe isn't open-sourcing any of the server/data access/interop components.
          HTTPService is included in the SDK. It's primitive and slower compared to Flash remoting using RemoteObject but it gets you started. That having said, it would be really nice if RemoteObject was included in the SDK since there are already some FLOSS components for the server-side part of the remoting.
          • Good to know and actually this isn't bad, since it would make REST and XML-RPC-style interactions do-able at least....but you're absolutely right; where is the love for RemoteObject? SOAP service calls are screwed as well w/out the gateway.
          • As I said, if you're one of those people who doesn't mind rolling a service call/result parser/object creator by hand, sure, call whatever you want on the backend. I don't think that's a real attractive option for bigger shops trying to search/update/manipulate large data sets thought.

            Another reply to my post mentioned that HTTPService apparently is available as part of the SDK, so that might work fine for shops with a REST-ful or XML-RPC-focused interop approach.

            Regarding data services...if you're talking
      • Sure, this is great for Flex developers. But there are many more users than developers, and this announcement doesn't help them.

  • Why do Adobe even care about Silverlight? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stunt_penguin (906223) on Thursday April 26 2007, @09:53AM (#18884729)
    Microsoft's only market for Silverlight is some universities and eLearning facilities that are too short sighted to use Flash for multimedia delivery; the only way MS could possibly even put a dent in Flash's ubiquity is if they traveled back in time and made sure that Silverlight something that was installed on every windows machine from Windows 98 onwards.

    Adobe have a massive user base for the Flash plugin (perhaps one of the highest user bases for any software in the world? (barring MS paint).. interesting question) and the application itself, and I don't see Microsoft making a dent in it in any meaningful way- why should Adobe even bother looking over their shoulder when you can ask most users what Flash is and they'll say 'oh it's that thing you need on the interwebs that does ______'.

    Anyway, I've been wanting to make the move to Flex (from hand-coding my XML requests etc) and this is a great chance to do so. Spry integration into Dreamweaver CS3, then open-sourcing Flex? Some moves in the right direction, Adobe :)

    Now, about that XML into After Effects idea I had :p

    *runs off to buy master suite*

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by btSeaPig (701895)
      the only way MS could possibly even put a dent in Flash's ubiquity is if they traveled back in time and made sure that Silverlight something that was installed on every windows machine from Windows 98 onwards

      - or release it as a critical update

    • Re:Why do Adobe even care about Silverlight? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by blueZhift (652272) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:16AM (#18885115) Homepage Journal
      I think Adobe cares about Silverlight in part because Flash development is still perceived to have a high barrier to entry because of the cost of Flash MX. I myself only became aware of the possibility of using the free Flex SDK to develop Flash apps recently. So in light of Microsoft's announcement, I think Adobe doesn't want those who might be swayed to forget about Flex. Open sourcing Flex is definitely a good move. It should result in some good free tools for Flash development which should help fend off the threat presented by Silverlight. I'm still planning to take a look at Silverlight, but I'll definitely be giving Flex a look too. And I'm sure that Adobe remembers that Netscape thought they had an insurmountable lead back in the day too, and look where they are now... Never underestimate the power of the dark side!
    • Adobe have a massive user base for the Flash plugin (perhaps one of the highest user bases for any software in the world? (barring MS paint).. interesting question)

      Umm, my linux boxes don't have MSPaint installed but they all have a Flash Plugin, So I guess the edge goes to Flash Plugin.

  • Free development in Flash has been around for a while. I particularly like working in Haxe [haxe.org].

    To me, I had never been interested in Flash development because the dev environments I saw always seemed semi-hostile to something other than timeline-based animation. With haxe, it's just you and your text editor - the way programming should be.

  • An unexpected smart move - Adobe deserves credit (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Qbertino (265505) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:17AM (#18885147)
    This is a suprising move indeed, and changes the game for RIAs big time. As of now Flex is right up there with Laszlo and Co. when technical decision-makers talk about RIA generators and compilers. This dimishes the corporate media hype about Silverthingie from MS to a minor sidenote.

    Kudos also to the Laszlo guys and the Motion Twin ActionScript Compiler and all the other projects listed at osflash.org for putting the presure on Adobemedia for the last few years. And Kudos to Sun for leading the way in open sourcing key technologies - I suspect that played a major role in this decision. And thanks to Adobe for scaring the living wee-wee out of Microsoft's Web Division. I can just imagine the look on their faces. Hehe.

    Oh, and last but not least, to all the idiots here on slashdot allready ranting about Flash, Flex, Laszlo, RIAs and whatnot: Shut the f*ck up, you don't know squat what you're talking about.
  • http://flex.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

    Adobe should concentrate on opening sourcing something of worth instead of reinventing the wheel. ;)
  • I checked the website, and Flex seems to be a bundle of different packages. The retail is over $700. Is that what they are open sourcing or just the SDK? Bottom line, can you use it without the 700 package? Kinda like how you can download the .Net framework and write apps without needing Visual Studio

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by colanut (541823)
      Yes, you can hand write the ActionScrpt/Flex in a text editor and use the free SDK to command line compile the .swf file to be included in your web page. As long as you know the language and syntax.

      The $700 package is a ide that has the compiler, debugger and a graphical design window to help you out.
  • Right now their new product is not taking off fast enough and they are trying to head Microsoft off. They've got a more profitable product in Flash and it's their product as opposed to this project they inherited from Macromedia.

    This is the last step before they abandon it. Which they won't do right away. First some exec that came over from Macromedia and forcing the project through will resign. Then a couple of months later the updates will stop.

    As someone who has witnessed their business people in act

  • The last mile of software (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rodentia (102779) on Thursday April 26 2007, @11:55AM (#18886943)

    There are eight ways to Sunday for solving the last mile problem for software (the presentation tier) in a robust fashion. For all but the most trivial of applications, this solution is more trouble than it's worth. Unlike the last mile of the network, the target is not a fixed location.

    The shrewd architect knows that there is always a rewrite. A dependency like this at the presentation layer is a liability. Whether interpreter is proprietary or not has little impact on these costs.

  • It's no good alone (Score:3, Funny)

    by jdavidb (449077) * on Thursday April 26 2007, @01:29PM (#18888493) Homepage Journal

    The only way to really utilize open source flex is if we could get an open source bison.

    • Flex Builder 2 *DOES* run under Linux (Score:4, Informative)

      by WarwickRyan (780794) on Thursday April 26 2007, @09:56AM (#18884769)
      Flex Builder 2 is provided as an Eclipse plugin, so it's platform independant.

      Quick google for "flex under linux" returns a blog detailing support: http://blog.davr.org/2007/04/22/flex-builder-201-u nder-linux/ [davr.org].

      Adobe really impress me with Flex..
      • ..and you can always use your own editor and compile with the free compiler.

        If you want to complain, then complain about the fact that they've not opened Flash Player 9.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by bcrowell (177657)
          ..and you can always use your own editor and compile with the free compiler.
          1. MTASC doesn't support actionscript 3.
          2. Haxe does support actoinscript 3, but it's a different language, so it isn't source code compatible with Adobe's compilers.
          3. MP3 is the only audio codec that's supported by flash, and the mpegla licensing terms make it illegal to distribute MP3 decoders in large numbers for free, without paying royalties. (I believe ubuntu, for example, pays royalties for the privilege of distributing it fo

      • Re:Flex Builder 2 *DOES* run under Linux (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Beau6183 (899597) on Thursday April 26 2007, @10:20AM (#18885203) Homepage
        Clarification: You can HACK FB2 to run under Linux, but it does not have any native support (no installer, no technical support). We recently had a meeting with the Flex team at my company and their view is that Linux does not represent the majority of their market, and at the time they were here they expressed no immediate interest in moving toward a Linux-supported product. I really wish they'd extend the open-source movement to FB2 as well because quite honestly -- it sucks. It's a severe memory hog, it is lacking several key bits of functionality like automatic code formatting for ActionScript and MXML, no built-in support for refactoring, and is a pain to get working with relatively-pathed library projects.
        • True, they've a lot of work to do with it. The code-suggest feature really need to tell you method return types / property types.
    • release Linux-native versions of their development environments for Flex development, including a free or community version like Microsoft's "Express" developer products for dotNET.

      FTA:
      Developers can use the Flex SDK to freely develop and deploy Flex applications using either Adobe Flex Builder or an IDE of their choice.
      dot.net Express runs on linux natively, I had no MS had come around that far./sarcasm

      What is available are linux native IDEs that support dotNET (MonoDevelop). And so it shall be f

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