Open Source Linux Phone Goes On Sale 520
An anonymous reader writes "Sean Moss-Pultz has just announced on the OpenMoko mailing list that the Neo1973 is finally available for purchase. OpenMoko.com is now taking orders via credit card. OpenMoko intends to 'free your phone' through a hardware-independent and open source user interface backed by the Linux kernel. This device could very well stand as a competitor to the more expensive Apple iPhone, but at a fraction of the price and with no vendor lock-in. Although the devices in this release cycle (GTA01) are mainly intended for developers, the up-and-coming devices targeted to the consumer market (GTA02) will also feature WiFi capabilities, a 3D acceleration unit, and 256MB of on-board flash. Both units will use the MicroSD card interface for removable storage and have USB client / host capabilities. For a full feature list, check out OpenMoko.com or the OpenMoko Wiki."
Awesome (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Awesome (Score:5, Informative)
yes, thats what an unlocked phone is....
as to your question about blocking phones...
if the imei number is correct and its FCC approved I doubt they would have any reason to block you
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I have no idea how the project in the article intends to do that, or if the telephony side is based on alr
Re:Awesome (Score:5, Informative)
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They don't care so long as you're on contract (Score:3, Insightful)
Just that you pay your bill (and perhaps rack up some overage).
In fact, if you didn't buy the phone from them, they have less to deal with
if you have hardware problems. T-Mobile has no issues with doing that
what so ever.
Re:Awesome (Score:5, Funny)
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Bottom line:
If you're using a GSM phone with a removable SIM card, and you purchased a phone with a) no vendor lock-in, and b) no SIM lock-in, then you can literally use the phone anywhere on the planet just by popping in the SIM card of a different provider. SIM loc
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Short version: $gsm_carrier can provide the settings, but while it usually works, it's not guaranteed to work, and they don't acutally support the phone.
Long version is like this - as long as $gsm_phone is unlocked, then $gsm_carrier can usually get it working without too much effort, and will talk you, the user, through the process - but it comes with no guarantee that it will actually work on the network. Some phones have odd quirks, and don't alwa
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ATT/Cingular and T-Mobile are the only two major GSM carriers in the United States.
The others are usually all CDMA carriers and the phones are completely incompatable on the network technology level.
and re those vzw phones with sim cards, it was either RIMM cards or sim cards for overseas usage of the phone, they serve no use on the continental US side of the pond
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Well, in that case maybe you should look into rPhone [piratepalooza.com]...
It features custom ringtones [piratepalooza.com], satellite connectivity with Killerwave(TM) technology [piratepalooza.com], vibrating action [piratepalooza.com] and steampunk technology [piratepalooza.com].
Arrrrrrrrrr!
Re:Here's an easy prediction: (Score:5, Interesting)
WHY would carriers want this thing on their networks again?
Because WiFi only covers a nanopercent of the area that GSM/3G covers. This means that any service you provide via WiFi, you'll also want to be able to use over EDGE/HDSPA/GPRS/whatever which uses the network and generates revenue. You'll also be using it to make calls.
In general, a carrier will just want you to have something connected to their network that you want to use and which you'll want to use a lot. I, for one, mostly just use my phone for SMS and actual phone conversations, but if I could get the phone to use WiFi for e-mail/messaging (ICQ+MSN) then I would be more likely to accept a few bytes flying over GPRS or something to get those messages when WiFi is not available. A lot more willing than I would be knowing that ALL of that data goes over an expensive network.
The only thing I'm worried about is the potential for hackers to hack the network stacks and trying to get free phone calls/data transfers with this device. If that happens it will be banned faster than you can say iPhone.
Re:Here's an easy prediction: (Score:5, Insightful)
GPRS is the choice because it's generally not restricted. Supposedly it's relatively easy to connect to GPRS without the provider's help, but a lot harder to connect to EDGE. Dunno how true that is, but that was the rationale for using GPRS. It would be nice if the consumer model had support for EDGE.
But the main point is that what this phone is doing is something different. Normal phones you get from your cell provider are disposable, and they have to be, because they generally suck. The hardware is great, don't get me wrong, but the software usually bites, and you can't fix it. My Samsung t809 won't sync with my Prius because of some stupid handshaking glitch. There's never going to be a firmware update for that. If the OpenMoko doesn't sync with my Prius, what to do? Fix it. I don't have to try to get Samsung to fix it. I don't have to listen to Samsung and Toyota blame each other for the problem. I just fix it. You, if you don't want to hack the phone yourself, wait for me to fix it. It's a really good deal from that perspective.
Likewise, my t809, which is a really sweet piece of software, has an alarm tone that genuinely pisses me off. It's an earworm. If I use the alarm on the t809, I'm hearing it in my head the rest of the day. I'd like to use a different alarm tone. But I can't. Because it's a closed-source phone, and they didn't think to let me install a different alarm tone. They weren't trying to screw me - they just didn't think of it. On the Neo, I can just hack the software if it's not configurable.
My t809 doesn't support stereo bluetooth. The fix? Buy a new phone. Two years later, when my old contract expires. Lame. On the Neo? A simple matter of programming. It probably already works - I haven't tried it because I don't have the phone yet. But if it doesn't work, I have the source code, I can fix it.
My Macbook won't work with the modem in my t809. So I have EDGE support, but I can't use it. On the Neo, as long as I can get the Neo to talk to the network, I can just have it do IP over the bluetooth, with NAT, so that my Mac has access to the Net at the same time that my Neo has access to the net. Doesn't work? Use the source, Luke.
So yeah, the Neo is really under-featured, if you're into cell phone cameras. But if you're into flexibility, and not being locked in to a broken phone for two years at a time, I think it's got possibilities.
Sometimes they are trying to screw you... (Score:4, Interesting)
On an open phone, you just rip the CD, then send the file to your phone -- like you would with an iPod, say.
The real reason for DRM -- not that people listen when I point this out -- is to be able to do crap like that. Sell you the same song five times -- once on a CD (which can ONLY be played on CD players, and not even all of them), again for your iPod, again as a ringtone on your phone, again as a soundtrack for your game console, and a fifth time because you'll lose one of the others and can't make backups.
But I don't think developers are going to create an amazing consumer application. If we do, someone will find a way to charge everyone on a "normal" phone to get the same thing. I'd settle for an amazing developer phone, and if we do create something useful, and users buy the phone and download our useful software, more power to them. I just want something I can hack.
Re:Here's an easy prediction: (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. I fully intend to get an OpenMoko device, but I'm likely to wait until a 3G version is available. A slightly bigger screen and a hard keypad would be nice too.
'running Linux' is not a good reason to get a phone
I think it's a very good reason:
1. All the development tools are Free and will work on my workstations (all of which run Linux)
2. I can run OpenMoko in qemu for development purposes
3. I can run many of my normal GUI applications on the phone since it uses Xorg
4. I can easilly hack up shell scripts, python scripts, run cron jobs, etc
5. Hopefully the Free software mindset will allow better Free software - I'm sick of everyone wanting to charge me 30-50ukp for every crappy little utility for my Symbian phone
that came free with my (cheapest possible) contract 18 months ago
I spend around 2ukp a month on my cellphone - I have no intention of going onto another contract with a monthly charge just to get a new phone (especially since all the phones provided by the operators at the moment are shit)
but it has no camera (WTF?).
Why on earth do I want a camera on my phone? Most of them take crappy blurry photos through their crappy tiny plastic lenses. I'll stick to using my old IXUS400 for quick snaps thanks.
Hackers and closed source (Score:3, Insightful)
Closed source or not, once a device is in the hands of malevolent hackers they can attempt to crack it. There are cracks for DVD's that allow them to read all regions, that software is closed source. There are hacks for Windows Genuine Advantage, which is closed source. Mention an electronic device that costs money to use and I bet there's a hack for it, closed source or not.
Even if the software is in protected firmware (which I bet it is) there is the potential for "patching" the firmware or abusing the o
Re:Here's an easy prediction: (Score:5, Insightful)
You buy a phone.
You get a SIM from a carrier.
You put the SIM in the phone.
It works.
What more needs to be done?
Phones and SIMs are always bundled here (Score:3, Informative)
Could you tell me why a carrier needs to "support" a phone?
You buy a phone.
In the United States, phones and SIMs aren't generally sold separately, and phones are sold locked to a network.
You put the SIM in the phone.
Phones for use on Sprint and Verizon networks have no SIM slot because they're CDMA [wikipedia.org]. Only those phones sold by AT&T and T-Mobile have SIM slots, and they're still network-locked out of the box.
What more needs to be done?
More conspicuous advertising of locking and unlocking policies, for one thing.
Re:Phones and SIMs are always bundled here (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Phones and SIMs are always bundled here (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.nokiausa.com/A4411004 [nokiausa.com]
http://www.store.motorola.com/mot/en/US/adirect/m
Rather than buying locked phones and whining about how difficult it is to unlock them why not just buy an unlocked phone?
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The base kit looks like it has everything you would need or want for a user or software developer. The advanced kit is for hardware hackers.
The consumer version is going to be $450 for the base model, though it has wifi and a bunch of other neato hardware added.
The real reason i
Gill Bates (Score:4, Funny)
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Oh, the Slashdot fads (Score:3, Funny)
In: Open Source iPhone Killer.
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Forget the sealed batteries, non upgradable memory - to me perma-locking the phone into AT&T is the biggest crime about the iphone and I think should be grou
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OTOH, what distros will run on this OSSphone? Is there an UbuntuCE yet? Is Linus going to start allowing mobile phone kernel hackers to add their stuff? Near as I can tell, most phones running linux are locked down at the kernel level, but
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"up-and-coming devices" (Score:2, Interesting)
Up-and-coming when? A month from now? No, October. Bummer. I'm sick of my V400 and am buying a new phone this week. Because the iPhone was so underwhelming AND it does not do 3G AND because it won't work with stereo headphones, AND it's totally locked down, I'm going with the Samsung Sync (SGH-A707). Is it a great phone? No, but for my purposes it's a lot better than the iPhone.
I wish the GTA02 were to be available sooner; I would wait on
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You know, you can get a GTA01, whether it's supposed to be "for developers" or not. Sure, you miss out on the WiFi and graphics, but you get an extra battery and stuff. And you can buy it today.
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I tried putting both Familiar and Opie on my iPaq, but I could never the WiFi or bluetooth to work, most of the apps lacked polish, and the keyboard interface was awful.
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no A2DP (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously, A2DP on phones is great. Add a stereo bluetooth car kit to your motor and you can stream your tunes into your car stereo in fairly high quality...
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iPhone killer (Score:2, Funny)
What a deal! (Score:3, Interesting)
Hard to tell from the press release which mass market (GTA02) model (if either) is really close to feature parity with the iPhone, but if you compare the two top end models, the price is the same.
If by fraction you mean 1/1, I guess so.
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Re:What a deal! (Score:4, Informative)
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Nonesense. The Neo Advanced is not a top end model. It's the exact same unit that come in a nicer package and with all kinds of gadgets for the hacker in you. You can't possibly call the inclusion of debugboards and other JTAG cables as making a "top end model". It makes no sense.
If you really wanna compare the
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You seem knowledgable, so I'll ask you: does the OpenMoko include PIM apps? And, just as importantly, does it synchronize with anything (hopefully e.g. KDE PIM at the least, but bonus points for Apple's iSync...)?
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Yes, the OpenMoKo platform includes PIM apps (Based on the EDS-embedded platform from O-hand). It's still in its infancy (They have been focusing on the hardware up to this point), but it's there, and will be rapidly advancing in the next few months. And one of the things they've been working on is a SyncML interface to sync the OpenMoKo PIM apps with anything that can speak SyncML. There will probably have to be an iSync backe
An interface called "Shake"? (Score:5, Interesting)
The real reason: iPhone (Score:3, Interesting)
Others have already mentioned a lot of the creative things that could be done with it beyond that, so I'll mention one -- scrolling. Put simply, if it's accurate
Opnemoko versus iPhone (Score:4, Interesting)
http://aptustech.com/?q=node/9 [aptustech.com]
Can the Openmoko challenge the iPhone ? Does the opensource philosophy can overcome one of the best designed phone ?
iPhone != best designed phone (Score:3, Insightful)
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As for the phone and its OS, never say never. They might be after the niche slashdot-type market at first. If and when it gets a UI with enough polish and ease-of-use it might have a chance in the mass market. And it stands to benefit from Apple blowing the smartphone market wide open. The iPhone is going to make smart phones popular among "regular" people. I think this improves rather th
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2.5G GSM? (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdki t.html [openmoko.com]
The Neo 1973 boasts the following hardware specifications
2.8" VGA TFT color display
Touchscreen, usable with stylus or fingers
266HZ Samsung System on a Chip (SOC)
USB 1.1, switchable between Client and Host (unpowered)
Integrated AGPS
2.5G GSM - quad band, voice, CSD, GPRS
Bluetooth 2.0
Micro SD slot
High Quality audio codec
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For those of you who really think that the difference between 2.5G and 3G is a deal breaker, I'd like to point something out:
Unless you are going to hook the phone up to your computer and use it as a modem, the difference doesn't matter. You've got a 2" screen with a relatively low resolution - even crappy video streaming will run over 2.5G (poorly, but who watches video on their phone anyway?).
If you could do VOIP or something over 3G that might make it matter, but the latency for cellular internet acces
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That said, I want to challenge the idea that EDGE -> UMTS makes no difference on a PDA. It makes a difference, although not much of one for 'mobile web sites'.
If you are on google mobile with stripped down xhtml pages you may not notice the EDGE much. However if you are surfing 'normal' web pages that get resized on the PDA, it makes a big difference. If you are streamin
Everyone vs. iPhone (Score:5, Insightful)
This smacks of the same sort of complaint-response attitude that drives the also-ran category in the music player market. Sure, it's open. Sure, it has features that everyone claims to need. Sure, it has a vaguely iPhone-ish interface. Wake me when it syncs with iTunes and automatically pulls my contacts, music, movies, TV shows, and calendar.
Apple got it wrong (but may still win) (Score:2, Interesting)
Possibly. Or possibly Apple got it wrong with the iPhone. Or possibly Apple got it wrong and they are still going to win through monopolistic practices and marketing. All one can do is try to develop a better product and see whether one can compete.
Wake me when it syncs with iTunes and automatically pulls my contacts, music, movies, TV shows, and calendar.
Why the hell would I want to s
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Re:Apple got it wrong (but may still win) (Score:5, Insightful)
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You may attribute their success to anything you want, but it's just not that simple.
"Call it flashy advertising or a fashion statement if it helps you to feel better about your electronics purchase, but simplicity and interface are key."
Yeah, that's always said yet it's not clear how much more simple Apple's products were to provide that "key" differentiation. Funny how the interface th
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The interface was changed because the iPhone has a touch screen. More importantly, though, the fact that Apple continues to improve upon already-admired interfaces is one of the reasons everyone is talki
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1) It really, truly, and honestly does marketing well. Apple fans will swear up and down that that has nothing to do with it, but they are deluding themselves. Apple does marketing in a way that few other consumer electronics even begin to contemplate. Whoever the hell is running Apple's marketing campaign needs an extra zero or two tacked on to the end of his salary. I am not saying that Apple doesn't make a good product, but Apple isn't the only company to make a
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As for the interface, what matters is public perception.
Ha. Ha. Ha. (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh yea, because, you see, iPhone is selling like crazy because it has a big touch screen!
It's *marketing* people. To reach the masses, you need a clear message, a clear brand and a clean hyped up release.
iPhone, by Apple, at 6PM, in all Apple and AT&T stores. Clear enough, right?
What does it do? iPod, Browser, Phone, Maps, YouTube.
Neo1912324, running OpenMoko, released just for developers for now and later for I don't know who and later maybe for everyone. For sale now in some places, if you can find it. What does it do? It's got advanced features running on Linux and is unlocked.
Normal people will see absolutely nothing in that phone, never mind how we, geeks, are salivating at it, if the marketing and branding effort is so weak. Sorry.
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OpenMoko is trying to compete, and I think they have a good chance. Apple's development speed seems like it's glacial, and the feature set on the iPhone will be fairly easy to replicate on the OpenMoko. It's the hundreds of additional apps that will make the phone attract
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So what on Earth do you think has been going on so far? Windows has 85% market share. Hello!?
OpenMoko is trying to compete, and I think they have a good chance. Apple's development speed seems like it's glacial, and the feature set on the iPhone will be fairly easy to repli
Re:Ha. Ha. Ha. (Score:5, Insightful)
Everybody does. And everybody has different apps that matter to them. That's why having lots of apps matters.
And let me tell you - it's a vicious cycle. If the phone isn't attractive to mainstream, developers won't develop mainstream apps for it, and mainstream won't buy it.
Ah, yes, and Linux will never work because nobody will develop software for it, right? Current phones (including the iPhone) come with so little software that is so limited that the bar is really low. Most of the so-called mainstream developers are fixing bugs and omissions in the base OS, something OpenMoko doesn't need.
OpenMoko costs $450/$600. You can get a Symbian/WinMobile smart phone with open API for less than that.
OpenMoko costs $300 with a 640x480 screen and GPS (the $450 and $600 include development hardware, something that costs thousands of dollars from other vendors). There is no Symbian or WinMobile that comes even close. In fact, the only other 640x480 phone is a brick. $300 will barely get you the lowest end Symbian phone unlocked (the E50). And Symbian is not exactly open or standard and a pain to develop for (I've tried).
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As much as I like the OpenMoko, this statement is somewhat deceptive.
The pricing for the Neo1973 direct from OpenMoko.com is as follows:
Now:
$300 -- base phone with 266MHz ARM processor, 128MB RAM, and no WiFi
$450 -- same phone + hardware development kit
The phone sold now is intended for developers only and is not marketed for mainstream (but yo
great screen, too (Score:5, Insightful)
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Even if it is 640x480?
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VGA smartphones: http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdalist&list=vga [pdadb.net]
even higher res smartphones: http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdalist&list=vgap lus [pdadb.net]
Of course, being open source there's no promise that you'll ever have any decent reader to get locked into.
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OH God! ROTFL (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but can we get just a little reality check here? And I'm someone who thinks the iPhone is 80% hype.
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When I last posted about my Motorola e680i (a low priced phone, for the China market) the only responses I got here were that I was elitist and linux phones weren't for everyone..
pfeh..now all of a sudden its cool.
There are a couple on sale on ebay at the moment from $36 to $195.
#1 Feature not in article summary (Score:2)
/.'ed (Score:3, Funny)
I get the announcement e-mail.
Maybe I'll get one and get in on the dev action.
That's weird, the site's not responding.
I wonder what killed their web server;
I don't think there's that many people on the list.
Oh well, I wonder what's on slashdot...
Symbian vs. Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
Nokia has moved away from reliability long time ago and got on the fancy-wagon. Their new E90 phone (new communicator) is very sexy, especially with the built-in GPS chip, but I guess
code, hell. I want a non-proprietary BATTERY. (Score:2)
Motorola MING A1200 (Score:3, Interesting)
GSM/GPRS module (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm curious as to how similar the GSM module is to a CDMA counterpart; Look specifically at smartphones like the treos; they come in both GSM and CDMA models, and the mainboards on them are pretty much identical. I'm willing to bet that if you took the GSM module out of this thing and slapped in a CDMA module from another phone (that uses the modular technology) that you'd be able to use CDMA networks.
Now the CDMA guys have agreements where they won't activate an ESN from another carrier, but if you've got an old or broken CDMA smartphone from someone like Telus, say, you could in theory have this phone on a CDMA network without too much trouble. There'll be some driver work as the commands aren't identical, but they're pretty damned close.
As a consumer (Score:5, Insightful)
Me: "I have this phone I want to add to my plan"
Sprint: "Did the store activate it?"
Me: "No it's my phone I didn't get it from a Sprint store"
Sprint: "Sir we don't do that"
Me: "blah blah blah blah - - ~~~ you're supposed to blah blah"
Sprint: "Sir let me check can you hold?"
Me: "Yeah sure"
-15 minutes later
Sprint: "Sir? We can do that, the activation fee is $375"
Me: "Huh?"
Sprint: "Sir yes if it's not a phone we sell then that's the activation fee"
Me: "Never mind, thanks anyway"
Sprint: "Thank you for calling Sprint"
Re:As a consumer - AVOID CDMA! (Score:3, Informative)
But you can activate any CDMA phone on "page plus" which is a pre-pay service that uses
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On the other hand, GSM networks are keyed to SIM cards. When you activate a phone, you are giving them the SIM number and they are activating that. If they ask you for your phone model and ESN, it's just for their records in case your phone gets ripped off so they can put it on a "stolen" list. Changing your phone is as simple as popping
SIM toolkit? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Sounds great, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless, every OSS developer with a mobile phone should be switching to this device. It is everything we have been asking for in terms of good corporate citizenship toward the open source community. Everything is open. Hardware specifications, source, direct contact with developers, community sites, everything. Once we all get on board only good things can follow.
Re:Sounds great, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a bloody good start. But it's got a long way to go.
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Also, like you said, I bought one because I want to support this. I'd hate to have wasted the money if this turns out to be a dud, but I want to show these c
Re:Sounds great, but... (Score:4, Informative)
I can think of a few areas where this might be popular:
There are modest fortunes to be made in any of the above. I'm already investigating the business potential of this device for the very unique circumstances that I work in. If the quality and supply of this device are at the right level, I'm almost certain to invest in it.
Geek does not imply Linux fanboy ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Being a geek does not mean you will buy something merely because it is Linux based or FOSS based, that is a bit more like fan boy'ism. You need to realize that for most geeks Linux is not a crusade, many just need a good general purpose *nix environment and don't really give a rats ass about the politics and religion that gets so much attention. For this phone to make an impact in geek circles it has to deliver as a phone, like Linux delivered as a general purpose *nix. If its greatest feature is "its Linux based" then it will be a niche product even among geeks.
This ought to be good. (Score:4, Insightful)
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This is incorrect. AGPS is the same as GPS (and uses the same satellites) except it requires some external assistance. The assistance varies depending on the particular AGPS device - some of them require assistance from the cellphone provider's network (e.g. to provide processing of the signals, etc), but in this case it just requires that the phone has the almanac data available (whic
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Hmmmmmn, if you ask me, making you buy a track you allready own (on CD) - just to use it as a ring tone is pretty fucking ugly.
Beauty isn't just skin deep.
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You're joking, right?
Insert CD, open iTunes, import CD, sync to iPhone.
And the setting to make that your song a ringtone is where? Cingular won't allow apple to set songs as ringtones because it interferes with their business model of squeezing every last penny out of your pocket. The grandparent was commenting on custom ringtones, not making the iphone act as an ipod.
Re:And then Boom! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Open Source? (Score:5, Informative)
Access the GSM telephony any way you like (Score:2, Informative)
Rubbish, your comparison with the Tivo is completely wrong in all respects.
The Tivo doesn't allow you to run your own code in place of theirs, which is one of the key problems that GPLv3 seeks to overcome, ie. tivoization.
In contrast the Neo1973/OpenMoko is totally open-source by design, so you can replace any supplied host code by your own without restriction. The telephony applications are not locked at all, because the ent
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