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The Golden Age of Cup Manufacturing
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Aug 07, 2002 03:50 PM
from the you-can't-make-this-stuff-up dept.
from the you-can't-make-this-stuff-up dept.
jonerik writes "The Washington Post has this article today on the disappearance of traditional 'small' (8 oz.) cups of coffee in favor of a larger concept of 'small' (12 oz.). In the case of Starbucks, for example, a truly small 8 oz. cup of coffee is still available, but it's called a 'short' and isn't listed on the menu. Why not? 'We still have it,' says Starbucks spokeswoman Lara Wyss, 'but we don't advertise it because of the size of the menu board, the physical constraints.' Yeah, sure. Disposable cup manufacturers have taken notice of the popularity/compulsory nature of larger cup sizes. The Sweetheart Cup Co. started manufacturing a successful 24-ounce hot-beverage cup about two years ago, and Kathy Deignan, the company's national vice president of marketing and account sales says 'The eight- and 10-ounce cups are pretty much gone.' Sweetheart also manufactures 7-Eleven's 44-ounce Super Big Gulp cups, and Deignan says the company is considering producing an 80-ounce cold drink cup - that's 5 pints, folks. Christ, how much do these companies think people need to drink, anyway?"
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The Golden Age of Cup Manufacturing
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Quick reply (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Quick reply (Score:4, Informative)
As for where your body finds the room for it, that is also simple physics, when you drank the cola in the first place, you expanded your mass and volume, starting in the stomache and then moving on to the blood stream, and finally ending up in your bladder, and when you relieve it, your mass/volume is restored to where it was before, since the volume being talkeed about is under 2% you'd never notice such a miniscule change or variation unless you habitually measured your weight or diameter 10-20 times a day.
Also keep in mind that the flow rate of urine is affected by the gravitational and muscular forces on the urine inside the body, so the only accurate mesurement is to measure the actual volume of urine, and ignoring the time elapsed, since that is such a highly volitatle variable.
A slight disclaimer, I'm not an expert, but it's pretty clear that bladders follow basic physics the same as anything else.
Not just drinks... (Score:3, Informative)
Well, at least here in Canada... Don't know about the US franchise...
Re:Not just drinks... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not just drinks... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not just drinks... (Score:5, Funny)
To which I reply, "I'd like small, but you're not going to play along, are you?".
Blank stare, followed by "Medium, then, sir?"
"If that's the smallest you have, then yes."
Honestly, how stupid do you have to be to then ask me if I'd like to supersize that? Apparently, approximately as stupid as a significant proportion of American high-schoolers, who really make me want to say, "see, now, that's why you're wearing that silly hat".
Anyway, I digress. And, apart from that, I'm getting off the subject.
It's marketing, I'm sure, pure and simple. And the most depressing thing is it evidently works. Well it must, or they wouldn't keep doing it, now, would they? Yes, we really are stupid enough that we accept them calling the smallest size on the menu "medium", in blatant contradiction of all that is sensible and logical in the world, and buy drink sizes that ought to have a health warning from the surgeon general about over working your bladder and other sundry bits of internal plumbing.
Re:Not just drinks... (Score:5, Interesting)
So I go away to school. They have delivery, I have no car (stupid rule if ever there was one. Talk about encouraging alcoholism) so order a pizza. Well, dumb me knows that a large is too much, so order a medium. And what arrives, but a small.
Now Pizza Hut advertises "The Big New Yorker". A full 16" pizza.
Yeah. Like the ones you used to sell, before decided that a 14" pizza was a large. BTW, thank you ever so much for not dropping the price when you dropped the sizes.
No, you sir (madam, celestial body, whatever) are not alone in your observation. As a matter of fact, my parents have an official Pizza Hut large pizza pan from the early-mid 80's. One of my father's patients has a couple dozen. For whatever reason, he gave my father a pizza pan. Guess what? It was an old large. The new large pizzas don't fill the pan.
Re:Not just drinks... (Score:4, Funny)
And I think Pizza Hut should change their sizes to large, extra-large, and GALACTUS, DEVOURER OF WORLDS.
the human bladder and other useless facts (Score:5, Informative)
some juicy bits:
The average Human bladder can hold 13 ounces of liquid
You loose enough dead skin cells in your lifetime to fill eight five pound flour bags
your skin weighs twice as much as your brain
When you sneeze, all bodily functions stop--even you heart!
have fun. remember kids, use knowledge responsibly.
Re:the human bladder and other useless facts (Score:5, Funny)
A sneeze is nothing more than a spontaneous brain abortion.
Re:2 observations (Score:4, Informative)
hint: the human body has about 6 quarts of blood.
for a quick refresh on pints and quarts [athens.edu] hit that link.
hint: there are 2 pints in a quart.
so 5 pints is 2.5 quarts, which is less than half of the amount of blood in the human body.
water intoxication (Score:5, Informative)
A first hand report about hyponatremia (Score:5, Informative)
The following is a first hand account of someone who experienced hyponatremia, pretty scary.
----------------
Hi everyone,
I'm writing this to "the big list", the PA Buzzards, Virginia Happy Trails
Running Club, the Montgomery County Road Running Club (in Maryland) and a
few others to say THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH for the Get Well Wishes, Cards,
Flowers, and overall concern and support. Wow! I have a lot of wonderful
friends!
I am writing to so many people for a few reasons - first, I have received
many inquires about how I am doing after the Vermont 100 miler. Also, many
people heard about what happened (which I'll explain below) but only got
parts of the story. So you'll get the story here - as best I know it, from
me, Michele Burr - the person who got a severe case of hyponatremia at
VT100. The people who do know about my getting hyponatremia have urged me
to post something so that people are aware of this very serious problem.
I must admit, I don't remember much because I had a seizure and went into a
coma but I have pieced together many things from people who saw me at the
end of the race and from talking with my husband, who thank God, was there
at the finish line and with me during my 5 day stay at two hospitals in
Vermont and then New Hampshire.
WHAT IS HYPONATREMIA? This is a condition in which there is a very low
concentration of sodium in your blood. It is also seen in conjunction with
WEIGHT GAIN (not weight loss) and most often occurs during endurance
exercise lasting more than 5 to 7 hours. (From:
http://www.halcyon.com/gasman/water.htm) More specifically, hyponatremia
develops as sodium and free water are lost and replaced by fluids, such as
plain tap water, half-normal saline, or dextrose in water. Basically, this
condition occurs when a person takes in too much water and not enough salt.
So you are probably wondering...was I taking Suceed! caps? Was I drinking
electrolyte fluids? Yes to both of these questions but obviously I was not
taking enough of either one of these things and yes, I was also eating
potato chips, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, fig newtons, and potatoes
-but again, it wasn't enough salt and I was taking in too much water. My
weight was up 5 pounds at the last weigh-in. To give you an understanding of
where my sodium level was compared to a normal person....most people have
about 140-145 mEq/L - this is some sort of measure of the amount of salt in
your blood. I had 113 mEq/L. This is extremely low. So, why is this a
problem? Because you need sodium in your blood for your brain to function.
WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS? The answer to this question is the scary part and why
this is such a medical emergency when it occurs.
****Many of the symptoms are NEUROLOGICAL in origin.**** Level of alertness
can range from agitation to a coma state. Variable degrees of cognitive
impairment (eg, difficulty with short-term recall; loss of orientation to
person, place, or time; frank confusion or depression). Other symptoms
include seizure activity and irrational behavior. In patients with acute
severe hyponatremia, signs of brainstem herniation, including coma; fixed,
unilateral, dilated pupil; decorticate or decerebrate posturing; and
respiratory arrest. Coma and seizures usually occur only with acute
reduction of the serum sodium concentration to less than 120 mEq/L.
(Remember my sodium level was at 113 mEq/L.)
I didn't recognize where I was or who my friends were or who my husband was
at the end of the race. I walked the last 5 to 10 miles which is very
unusual for me and people said I didn't know who they were and it appeared
as though I didn't even know I was in a race. Shortly after I crossed the
finish line on Saturday night I started to vomit uncontrollably then I had a
seizure then I went into a coma. I remained in a coma for 3 days. At some
point before I woke up out of the coma I began the "irrational behavior"
mentioned above. I pulled out all my IVs and ripped off my EKG patches and
tried to kick and hit the nursing and neurosurgeon staff. I was very
combative whenever someone tried to touch me and was eventually given
antipsychotic medication.
When I woke up I didn't know where I was, what
had happened, what month, or year it was. Upon being forced to give a guess
for the month I told the neurosurgeons, "I think it's Vermont" for the
month. I couldn't read and I couldn't add numbers. On Tuesday after the
race I started to feel much, much, better. I could read again and I had
watched a car commercial to figure out what year it was. I also got a lot
of the story about what happened from my husband. It was on this day (or
maybe Monday?) I learned I had been in another hospital earlier. Why was I
first in a small local hospital (Ascutney in Windsor, VT) and then
transferred by ambulance to Dartmouth-Hitchcock? That has to do with the
scariness about how to treat this medical emergency. It you don't do it
right, it will lead to further and permanent brain damage.
HOW IS HYPONATREMIA TREATED? From http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/heat.html: It
says that the condition is frequently mis-diagnosed as dehydration and that
the consumption of water makes matters worse because it dilutes the blood
sodium concentration even further than it already is.
From http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic275.htm
"The principal causes of morbidity and death are when chronic hyponatremia
reaches levels of 110 mEq/L or less and cerebral pontine myelinolysis (an
unusual demyelination syndrome that occurs when HYPONATREMIA IS CORRECTED
TOO QUICKLY).
Much has been written about treatment of hyponatremia and the potential
adverse outcome of central pontine myelinolysis. This condition is
demyelination of the pons, which can lead to mutism, dysphasia, spastic
quadriparesis, pseudobulbar palsy, delirium, coma, and even death.
Raising the serum sodium concentration more than 25 mEq/L or to a normal or
above-normal level in the first 48 hours increases the likelihood of central
pontine myelinolysis.
The main controversy in the literature surrounds treatment of chronic
symptomatic hyponatremia because, as mentioned, central pontine myelinolysis
may result if the condition is corrected too rapidly. Therefore, although
treatment in these patients is similar to that just described, the rate of
correction should be slower (0.5 to 1 mEq/L per hour). Aggressive therapy
should be discontinued when the serum sodium concentration is raised 10% or
symptoms abate."
Upon being admitted at the first hospital in Vermont my soium level was 113
mEq/L but then quickly went to 116 and the next reading was at 126. The
hospital felt uncomfortable and kept telling my husband it was possible I'd
get "PONDS" - which is central pontine myelinolysis (permanent brain
damage). They also told him to think about long term care for me and that
"things could turn out a number of ways". They also asked him if I remained
in a vegetative state, would I want my organs donated and did I have a
living will prepared. At this point, an ambulance took me to New Hampshire
to Dartmouth-Hitchcock. Needless to say, I think I aged my husband about 10
years during these 5 days.
WHAT ARE THE LONG TERM EFFECTS? Well, so far I feel I am about 95% back to
where I was neurologically before the race. (Physically, I lost 10 pounds.)
I couldn't remember my password when I got to my office so I couldn't log
into my computer and I forgot a combination lock number I often used. I
also forgot a few people's names. I had a little bit of trouble typing and
signing my name but that seems to be gone now. The last clear things I
remember from the race are at the mile 18 aid station. I am also a bit
spacey (it's a bit difficult for me to concentrate) but I can drive. I am a
research scientist so it's important that I be able to generate and
interpret statistics. I haven't tried that yet but I'm optimistic. Here are
a few more links (in case you just can't get enough about hyponatremia):
http://www.spinalhealth.net/hypon
http://www.fred.net/ultrunr/hyponatr
Finally, the way to avoid this in the future (for me) is to drink less water
and eat more salt. I will also push for a blood test from my doctor before
I run another 100 (this was my 5th one) to make sure I am not starting out
at a deficit - which is what the doctors were suggesting at
Dartmouth-Hitchcock Hospital. They said that my low sodium diet, combined
with a high volume of running (sometimes as much as 100 miles/week) and
sweating in the heat and humidity here in the Washington DC area were the
problem combined with the low volume of electrolyte fluids (relative to the
amount of water I was taking in).
This was scary. I hope some people will be educated by reading this and for
the many people who emailed and asked me what happened, I hope this answered
their questions.
Thank you so very much again everyone for your concern. My friends,
co-workers, relatives, and the ultrarunning community have been great!
Michele Burr
Not just Starbucks (Score:3, Funny)
The logic behind this move was because they felt people would think they were getting a bad deal just buying "small" fries (this was around the same time that McDonalds changed their format to "Medium, Large, and Supersize."
Imagine our customer's confusion when they would order a large fries, and have the order called back as "regular", and then see "regular" on their receipt. They were convinced we were ripping them off!
Need? What about want? (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought need has no place in a free market. Arn't companies supposed to give you what you think you want, not need? Are people really surprised that people in a market want stuff thats bad for them in the same way that people want bad stuff for them? (Except in a free market, you're much more likely to have that want fulfilled if you have the cash?)
Re:Dixie cups (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny, I just re-use dishes to keep the sink from over-flowing.
Supersize is in. (Score:4, Insightful)
Supersizing doesn't matter... (Score:5, Interesting)
Working for a major pop company, I can tell you right now that premix pop is downright cheap (premix is the syrup that's mixed with water and CO2 to get the pop that comes from the fountain). Since the pop companies don't have to worry about mixing it, packaging it, and labeling it in the bottling plant, they don't have to charge much for it.
Believe it or not, advertisements for "80oz. Fountain Drinks for $.99!!!" actually lure customers there. And they can do it because they don't lose money. So, when the fast food / convenience stores get cheap pop, they get more customers, they don't lose money, and the customer walks away happy.
The stores don't care about sugar levels or diabetes, and most customers don't understand that what they think is a "great deal" isn't doing much good for them, while it works great for the company.
Poor Sweatheart Cup Co syadmin... (Score:5, Funny)
Supersize Asses (Score:5, Funny)
There will be trickle down from larger pants to larger chairs to larger coffins.
Re:Supersize Asses (Score:4, Funny)
Being a breast man, (Score:5, Funny)
Is this just America? (Score:5, Interesting)
Can anyone from another country or who's traveled abroad comment on this trend? Is oversized drinks just an American thing?
Re:Is this just America? (Score:5, Funny)
For example, in my one experience in a Munich beergarden, I found that Coke came only in small glasses.
Beer, on the other hand, could be ordered in a few sizes, including "large", "very large", and "2 litre, two-hands-required-to-lift the 20-pounds-of-glass-and beer" size.
That was a good size.
Excellent! (Score:3, Funny)
This is excellent. Finally I can have an entire night of drinking in one convenient container.
44 oz? Try the DoubleGulp! (Score:3, Informative)
The best thing about it is that it even comes in a paper carton-like "cup" that very closely resembles a half gallon carton of milk, but with a hole in the top for a straw.
'Course, the second coolest thing is the fact that you get anywhere from 700 to 900 calories from one, depending on what soda you put in it (assuming that, like most teenageers, you are not a big fan of diet sodas). Mmmmm half my daily calories in carbonated liquid form....
Re:44 oz? Try the DoubleGulp! (Score:5, Funny)
My rant. (Score:5, Insightful)
Up until recently, when people got thirsty, they went to the kitchen and got a drink. They finished their drink in the kitchen and went about their business. People also drank at the table while eating. But now, people seem to be incapable of going ANYWHERE without a drink constantly in hand.
It doesn't seem to matter what the drink is or if they are even thirsty, just so long as they always have a drink. Regardless of whether it is a ridiculous 44oz Big Gulp or a 12oz bottle of water, they must have a drink in hand.
It appears to me that people have developed some form of security blanket complex where they are out of sorts unless they have a drink in their hand. You notice this with the constant sipping. They are obviously not thirsty but every couple of minutes they are compelled to sip a half ounce or so. They seem addicted to the act of drinking, rather like smokers are to the act of smoking.
What's up with that?
Re:My rant. (Score:4, Insightful)
I've been running that experiment for years. it just cracks me up.
Re:My rant. (Score:5, Funny)
At one typical "yay for us" session where the publisher/CEO was trying to drum up support for an initiative the editorial staff opposed, I was obliged to clap with the majority. It would have been inappropriate not to. I noticed that one of the editors was not clapping, and I asked him how he could get away with that.
"I don't want to spill my coffee," he said, pointing out several other editorial staff members who were not clapping and holding coffee cups. "Next time, bring a cup."
So the next time I grabbed an empty coffee cup on my way to the meeting and just stood there holding it when everyone clapped. It was a good lesson in civil disobedience. When I left the company over a year later, and my boss was giving a BS speech about how much I meant to the company, I brought a coffee cup.
Someone was bored (Score:3, Funny)
The reason they don't put it on the menu board? It costs ten cents more for the 'small', but only has about 1 cent more cost involved. They 'lose money' (in the same way that pirates cause MPAA and RIAA companies to 'lose' money) by selling this size. That's why they push the barrel basket of popcorn at the movie theatre for 'only 25 cents more': because it only costs them 5 cents more, so they make an additional 20 cents.
"Do you want to supersize that?"
"No, moron. If I wanted to supersize it, I would have said 'Number 3, supersize', not 'Number 3, medium'" But I usually don't, as it is the owner/manager who will fire the drone if they forget to pimp supersize fries.
(BTW, call me in to testify against that fat bastard suing the fast food companies. Listen lard-ass, just order a medium! I'm fat, so fuck you, I'll call you lard ass if I want. I'm fat because *I* shovelled garbage down my gullet, not Mayor McCheese.)
Oh, and to those who say "the market will prevail": bullshit. McDonald's used to have an "All-American meal". Cheesburger (not 1/4 lb), fries (modern medium, traditional large), and a coke (modern medium, traditional large). It's exactly what I wanted. Doesn't exist anymore. Yes, the items are available separately, but have you ever ordered separate items at McDonald's? What a joke. Definately a roll of the dice as to whether those people get anything right. (I do this frequently. I'll get a medium two cheeseburger meal with an extra drink, sometimes extra fries for my wife and I to split. Then throw in a hamburger for junior.)
Blah. Gimme a gun, a knife, and an open fire. I'll get your supersized meal as soon as a buffalo comes walking by.
(Not even 30, and I'm becoming a 'bitter old man', ranting about 'the good old days')
geek unfriendly story (Score:3, Interesting)
sure, the sugar spike of modern soft drinks is completely unnatural for a human body evolved to deal with the slow rise and fall of digesting complex carbohydrates, but so what? and no, i won't become a diabetic because i run every day too. calories in, calories out. and yes, as i admitted, it's a drug-like crutch, but in the larger scheme of things, i can forgive myself my dependence upon sugar to get me through the day. surely there are greater addictions and crimes out there we can all worry about, no? (yes, i am aware the micromanaging moralizers amongst us have something to say here, but we don't care, k?)
programming may not be as calorie-intensive a process as say, the iron man competition, but the brain still eats calories. and is there a single programmer out there who doesn't appreciate the idea of getting into a mental zone and getting their most productive efforts out of that zone? do most of us prop up that zone with comfort-producing stimuli? music, furniture, toys, lighting, etc... but sweets and stimulants top the list. just go visit thinkgeek [thinkgeek.com] if you don't believe me and see what kind of stuff they hawk over there. if you've ever drank coca cola while at the keyboard, you have to admit the bonus it produces. what greater comfort-producing aid can there be than something that gives the brain what it naturally craves?
keep the brain sutffed with oxygen and glucose and it will reward you with good code! don't let the guilt-mongers get at you, fellow programmers, enjoy your code red big gulp, and have one every day. (just make sure you exercise too... don't become another stupid fat american.
This really is a weight problem concern (Score:3, Insightful)
High level languages (Score:3, Funny)
Diabetes (Score:5, Interesting)
An 80 oz. cup of Coca-Cola with perhaps 25 oz. of ice has about 900 Calories. 900 Calories from sugar and no discernable nutrients.
Soft-drink companies who try to pass this stuff off as harmless are no better than the cigarette companies who lied about lung cancer.
Companies who sell 10% fruit juice (the rest being corn syrup and water) are just as bad, too. Worse, considering that ignorant mothers feed this stuff to children thinking it is healthy.
I hope that refined sugar-based soft drinks and fruit drinks will be reclassified as "candy" just so we can have some truth in advertising, and basic maternal psychology will then stop children from consuming such obscene amounts of them.
I'm just too damn tired of seeing beach ball shaped children most places I go, who will have a miserable time growing up and, later, a very hard time growing old.
Won't fit in the cup holder (Score:5, Funny)
Another Example Amoral Economics (Score:3)
This is just another example of economics being applied in an amoral fashion. For quite some time I've been lamenting the demise of the 12-oz can in convenience stores, which has been replaced with 20-oz plastic bottles. All too often I find myself falling prey to the "you've gotta finish it" mentality. No doubt this comes from being told as a kid to "clean your plate because people are starving overseas".
Of course, I could just pour out the extra soda or plan ahead by purchasing smaller units at the grocery store. However, if I were inclined to do that I wouldn't be at the convenience store to begin with. Planning ahead simply isn't... well... convenient.
So... what can we do with all that flat soda? I hate the idea of just dumping it, so here's my proposal: Flat soda collection centers.
It's not as crazy as you think. Since all non-diet sodas are essentially sugar-water with an acid pH, all we have to do is dump them in a vat, rebalance the pH, add yeast, and let them ferment. Then we can distill the product into ethanol and use it to power stuff.
Of course this will never work. Most people drink the whole 20-oz, or just dump the flat soda. If I were the tinfoil-hat type, I'd say there was a conspiracy to make America fat, but it's really just amoral economics.
The companies get a better margin on bigger bottles. They can afford to please the gluttons at the expense of the rest of us because the gluttons are their best customers. There are only 2 major soda companies. Any vendor that tries to carry the smaller sizes faces the same margins. They may also face pressure from the soda companies. Pepsico does a lot of its business because it owns restaurants. They should be forced to divest all their restaurant holdings, as this is very much against the public interst. Alternatively, their corporate charter could be revoked thus relieving them of both the benefits and obligations of being a corporation. Of course charter revokation is a futile proposal since the public service nature of corporations is all but dead and burried.
Both soda companies are guilty of using heavy-handed contracts on independant operators. All corporations (not just soda companies) should be barred from making deals that prevent customers from dealing in competing products. Such a law, were it in force, would solve much of the Microsoft problem too.
At any rate, the application of "economies of scale" to serving people drinks is just one of many examples of economics being applied without thought. These aren't refineries we're fueling here, THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS. They require something other than maximum volume at minimum cost.
Don't worry too much though. Misguided economics works in the other direction too. Free Trade wags are actually seriously proposing the elimination of subsidies and tarrifs on agricultural products worldwide. As everybody who took basic economics knows, agricultural subsidies help ensure greater than "market" output. Market output could lead to food shortages in drought years. Tarrifs encourage local production. Take away the tarrifs, and US agriculture might flee to a lower cost producer. Yes folks... all of this means that Americans, yes AMERICANS. May someday be taking grain from UN workers throwing it out the back of trucks. And the Blue Helmet guys probably won't offer you the option of "super sizing" that sack of wheat.
Re:Drinking is good for you. (Score:3, Informative)