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Dirac: BBC Open Source Video Codec

Posted by michael on Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:50 PM
from the knowing-is-half-the-battle dept.
NickFitz writes "Need To Know this week has a piece about Dirac, a BBC R&D project to produce a video codec, which has been released as an Open Source project. From BBCi: 'Dirac is a general-purpose video codec aimed at resolutions from QCIF (180x144) to HDTV (1920x1080) progressive or interlaced... Our algorithm seems to give a two-fold reduction in bit rate over MPEG-2 for high definition video (e.g. 1920x1080 pixels), its original target application. It has been further developed to optimise it for internet streaming resolutions.'"
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  • Ahh codecs. (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30 2004, @12:52PM (#9020667)
    The great thing about them is that there are so many to choose from and support.
  • Finally!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by WwWonka (545303) on Friday April 30 2004, @12:52PM (#9020678)
    BBC Open Source Video Codec

    Finally a codec to convert all the dry witty intelligent British TV humor over to bland cliche' stale American TV humor!
  • Duplicating work? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bobbis.u (703273) on Friday April 30 2004, @12:52PM (#9020680)
    Seems like a bit of a waste of license payers money when there already a several open source video codecs (eg. Ogg Theora, 3ivx). What does this offer that those don't?
  • It's about time. (Score:1)

    by BoomerSooner (308737) on Friday April 30 2004, @12:53PM (#9020687)
    (http://www.soonersports.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday March 13 2003, @03:39PM)
    Bravo, BBC. I knew there was a reason I liked them!
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by the_2nd_coming (444906) on Friday April 30 2004, @12:54PM (#9020694)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    right now I have good quality with 3vix but it is 1 gig.

    if this can get me to 700 MBs at the same quality (about 85 in the 3vix) that would rock!!!
  • WOOO... NO MORE REAL PLAYER!! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by koniosis (657156) <koniosis@ h o tmail.com> on Friday April 30 2004, @12:54PM (#9020706)
    Hopefully the BBC will use this instead of RAM, silly real player!
  • BBC Archive (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30 2004, @12:55PM (#9020713)
    Could this be related to the archive of video content they are purported to be setting up? Seems like a very unnessecary step to accomplish that, unless they have some sort of conflict with the legalaties of other codecs out there...
  • The successor will be named... (Score:1, Redundant)

    by JessLeah (625838) * on Friday April 30 2004, @12:55PM (#9020714)
    Dalec. (The Dr. Who production team will use it.)
  • by Fallen Kell (165468) on Friday April 30 2004, @12:56PM (#9020724)
    Well, I'll have to test it out first, but its a pain encoding in Divix, so I will have to see if this is a little less CPU intensive (or really IDE bus intensive). Capturing and converting live streaming video at 800x600 is intensive...

    Anyway it can't hurt especially if it saves me some space (you would be surprised how fast you can fill up 1/2 a terrabyte with video capturing).

  • Here's hoping it leads to more videos (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Lord_Dweomer (648696) on Friday April 30 2004, @12:57PM (#9020739)
    (http://haltingpoint.blogspot.com/)
    I really hope this leads to more free educational videos online. The BBC has been doing a great job of making that material available for free, and any thing that helps improve the quality of that content is a good thing.

    Their documentaries are so interesting that I often choose to watch them over other movies or shows I may have on my computer. Bravo BBC.

  • A bit wary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bsd4me (759597) on Friday April 30 2004, @12:59PM (#9020771)

    I would be a bit wary of a codec that claims to be all things to all people, ie supporting broadcast-quality HDTV and internet-quality video

    Video codecs typically have ``sweet-spots'' for resolution and bitrate. The MPEG specs work well for higher bitrate video, and we have several codecs that work well for lower bitrate video.

    Also, MPEG video quality can vary from encoder to encoder. The specs only define the bitstream, and the encoder can do what it wants. This is why there is a huge difference between the quality that Media Cleaner produces versus a multi-chip hardware encoder found in a cable plant.

    • Re:A bit wary (Score:4, Informative)

      by ca1v1n (135902) <[moc.cinortonaug] [ta] [koons]> on Friday April 30 2004, @02:02PM (#9021483)
      That's because many codecs have performance tuning parameters built into the encoding standard, like with MPEG. Wavelet-based methods don't need to do this, so their performance tends to scale quite smoothly. More traditional compression techniques may still beat them out at their "sweet spots", but the wavelet methods are very general.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:A bit wary by benwaggoner (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @02:06PM
    • Re:A bit wary (Score:5, Informative)

      by hak1du (761835) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:07PM (#9021522)
      (Last Journal: Monday April 12 2004, @04:18AM)
      Video codecs typically have ``sweet-spots'' for resolution and bitrate.

      Well, if your video compressor has notions of "8x8 blocks" and "16x16 blocks" hardwired into it, that is not exactly surprising. That's the kind of technology that current codecs use.

      If they use wavelets and motion compensation correctly, there is no reason why it shouldn't scale well across a large range of resolutions.
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Weird results.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30 2004, @01:00PM (#9020775)
    Looks good, but why are all the male American comedy leads now in drag???
  • MPEG4? (Score:5, Insightful)

    Why would they compare it to MPEG2? In order to impress me, you'll have to compare quality and bitrates with MPEG4.

    • Re:MPEG4? by Jameth (Score:3) Friday April 30 2004, @01:08PM
      • Re:MPEG4? (Score:4, Informative)

        by neurojab (15737) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:22PM (#9021018)
        >MPEG4 is not that special at very high bitrates. MPEG4 is for low bitrates almost exclusively. This makes for small files which look good enough, but not files which look perfect.

        I've heard that before too, but if you compare an equal-bitrate Mpeg2 with Mpeg4, I think you'll find that Mpeg4 wins. The optimizations were designed for low bitrates, but help at high bitrates as well.

        [ Parent ]
        • Seek granularity / CPU load by DarkMan (Score:3) Friday April 30 2004, @07:04PM
          • Re:Seek granularity / CPU load by Wesley Felter (Score:2) Saturday May 01 2004, @12:01AM
          • MPEG2 keyframes (Score:4, Informative)

            by achurch (201270) on Saturday May 01 2004, @07:16AM (#9026911)
            (http://achurch.org/index-e.html)

            The typcial keyframe rate in MPEG4 stuff is around 8-10 seconds. In MPEG2 it tends to be around 2-5 ms

            Seeing as how one frame is 1/25 (0.04) or 1.001/30 (0.03) seconds depending on which part of the world you live in, 0.005 is just plain impossible. At least as far as DVDs go, MPEG2 keyframe intervals are usually 12-18 frames, which works out to 0.4-0.6 seconds for NTSC--still a lot less than MPEG4.

            [ Parent ]
      • Re:MPEG4? by evilviper (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @01:23PM
      • There's two kinds... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Kjella (173770) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:42PM (#9021252)
        (http://slashdot.org/)
        Let's say you compare

        a) 640x360 vid at 1x bandwidth
        b) 640x360 vid at 9x bandwidth
        c) 1920x1080 vid at 9x bandwidth

        a) and c), MPEG4 will win. b) will be much much closer. What you define as "low" bitrates really depends on resolution. The dual-layer DVDs coming now should be able to do full HDTV resolution with somewhat better quality than a 1CD DVDrip. Since 2CD rips typically use 3-400mb on AC3 track, actually not that far away from 2CD rip. But something like 8-10Mbit (aren't they usually 1Mbit today?) is hardly a low-bitrate stream in my opinion...

        Kjella
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:MPEG4? by benwaggoner (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @02:02PM
    • Re:MPEG4? (Score:5, Informative)

      by happyfrogcow (708359) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:11PM (#9020895)
      Isn't MPEG2 the standard for TV broadcasts?
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:MPEG4? by yellena (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @01:58PM
      • Re:MPEG4? by jo_ham (Score:3) Friday April 30 2004, @03:24PM
    • No, they should compare to MPEG2. by Jerk City Troll (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @03:28PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Fantastic News (Score:2, Insightful)

    by stephenry (648792) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:06PM (#9020831)
    This is absolutely brillant news!

    Ever since I heard that the BBC plans to put their achive on the internet it was clear that they would be far better served developing their own video codec. As a British Citizen, I am glad that those who have paid television licenses do not have to pay an additional toll in the form of Real Player.
  • Patent free (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Telex4 (265980) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:09PM (#9020869)
    (http://tom.acrewoods.net/)
    Even more impressive than the codec itself, in my opinion, is that they managed to develop a new video codec without infringing any patents! And given that it's the BBC, I assume they could go to court to defend themselves in prior art.

    Very cool. But then all the engineers in their R&D dept. are apparently very anti software patents, and have been doing their bit writing letters to that effect :-)
    • Re:Patent free by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @01:36PM
    • Re:Patent free (Score:4, Informative)

      by doc modulo (568776) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:30PM (#9021748)
      Neither the article nor the /. summary said anything about patents.

      The BBC doesn't NEED to worry about patents because software patents don't exist in Europe. Although we're in danger of getting them because of the US and US companies influencing the European commission

      That weird shit only happens in the USA at the moment. Something as good as the BBC is doing would almost certainly be impossible in the US because of patents. When the BBC puts it's public knowledge on the net (wonderful documentaries), it will be illegal to watch/hear that info in the US as soon as a company comes out with a patent infringement claim.

      The only reason the rest of the world worries about software patents is because we want the people in the US to be able to use the software we're making. This might not last, as in the case of the BBC codec.

      I suggest US men-of-action types fix this situation, start with voting good guys/girls into office.
      [ Parent ]
  • Wavelet Theory (Score:5, Informative)

    by Cocodude (693069) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:10PM (#9020882)
    (http://www.alpha-programming.co.uk/)

    I went to a day at the Research and Development facility with the BBC, and saw a demonstration of Dirac.

    It does look quite impressive, and for those who are interested, I believe it works on wavelet theory. Lots of information on this is provided at http://www.wavelet.org/ but I believe its scalable frequency analysis enables significantly better compression than other codecs (typically DCT based?) out there.

    I think.

  • by Mildog (27114) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:10PM (#9020889)
    (http://www.mattandrhya.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday July 15 2004, @03:36PM)
    what is the bitrate for HDTV? I don't know how many bits per pixel it takes.

    Thanks in advance,

    Mildog
  • by Jameth (664111) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:13PM (#9020918)
    The team working on Ogg Theora has done pretty good work, and I wouldn't want them to drop their project, but collaboration would be great. As the two codecs seem to have largely different aims (Ogg Theora is low bitrate, anything compared to MPEG2 is high bitrate) they aren't even directly competing. I'm certain they both run into the same issues all the time, however, and some code sharing would help everyone out immensely.
  • BBC Archive (Score:5, Interesting)

    by enditallnow (177040) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:14PM (#9020926)

    Did you ever consider that they intend to use this for their plans to put their archives online? [bbc.co.uk]

    The poster stated that "It has been further developed to optimise it for internet streaming resolutions" which is one way for such a thing to be distributed. Have a look here. [theregister.co.uk] The register states that "The BBC's new media director, Ashley Highfield, said that a P2P network will allow the BBC to handle the volume of traffic it expects when the Internet Media Player (IMP) goes live. The IMP will enable users to download or stream content to their PC, laptop or palmtop computer."

    If this is the case then Aunty Beeb is well underway to providing the tools we will need for accessing their archives.

    -- Enditallnow

    • Re:BBC Archive by TwistedSpring (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @05:12PM
  • My question is... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LilMikey (615759) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:16PM (#9020952)
    (http://www.lilmikey.com/)
    How are they going to convince set-top manufacturers to support their codec or conglomerates to broadcast it? It's already been proven a hundred times over the superior and/or open rarely win out to their more profitable brethren. All the article states is there's a 'hint of a chance' of it being adopted by big media...
  • Great news (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ajs318 (655362) <sd_resp2@earthsh ... o.uk minus punct> on Friday April 30 2004, @01:20PM (#9021003)
    This is really wonderful news. The BBC is sharing its work with the Open Source community - and most of the British Open Source community are BBC TV licence payers.

    I am glad that the BBC has recognised the need for this codec to be Open Source. It means that everyone, not just those beholden to private corporations, will get the chance to experience BBC content. The BBC is also a highly influential body; I would be surprised if other European content providers did not display an interest in this. PAL was a joint development between the BBC and its German counterpart; SUSE is German.

    This is going to be one to watch.
    • Re:Great news by Nimrangul (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @02:26PM
      • Re:Great news by ajs318 (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @03:19PM
        • Re:Great news by Nimrangul (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @03:27PM
    • Re:Great news by TwistedSpring (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @05:14PM
  • Here's the True Reason. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by osewa77 (603622) <naijasms.gmail@com> on Friday April 30 2004, @01:25PM (#9021049)
    (http://www.nairaland.com/)
    What do companies do when they have products which, though not being best of breed, require huge and increasingly unjustifiable Research and Development funds? They go Open Source! (no, I am not naming names... sap db netscape interbase ...
  • How do they do it all for free? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tetranz (446973) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:33PM (#9021141)
    I mean all the BBC's services in general. I think I know the answer in assuming that the British people pay for it in tax and TV license fees. That's something I'm grateful for as a New Zealander living in the US. The BBC is a refreshing change to the somewhat mind numbing American news sources.

    My real question to Brits here is: How well is this burden accepted by the British people? Are the BBC TV and radio stations in the UK really non-commercial? I know the US government gives money to PBS and NPR but I don't know how it compares (especially per capita) to what the British government must spend on the BBC. It must cost a fortune and they are effectively supplying (IMHO) a good quality product for free to the rest of the world via internet and shortwave. I imagine some of the international motivation of the BBC stems back to the days of the old empire. It almost seems too good to be true.

    I assume that NPR and others like it around the world pay to carry the program. Maybe that earns a lot.

    This question came up in my mind the other day when the wi-fi radio was mentoned here on /. I definitely want on of those beside my bed when it becomes available. It seems like its the ideal thing for BBC listeners. I wonder if its availbility will significantly increase the load on their servers, all costing real money of course.

    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by Bloater (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @02:05PM
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by s7uar7 (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @02:06PM
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? (Score:4, Informative)

      by hbr (556774) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:12PM (#9021580)
      We pay about 120 UK pounds ($210 dollars at the current rather extreme exchange rate) per household for the priviledge. This is 10 pounds per month, but it is compulsory for all owners of television equipment (even if they could somehow fix their tuners to disable all BBC channels - on that note, does anyone know how I can fix my tuner to disable ITV2?). A comparison with this cost is the cost of satellite or cable "premium" channels which cost about 30 pounds per month (which makes it seem quite cheap really).

      I presume that the BBC sells its stuff abroad - it also has a number of commercial outlets (videos, etc). Despite not being able to advertise, it relentlessly promotes its own material (which can get quite tiresome and repetitive sometimes).

      Well, speaking as one British person, I'm quite happy to pay the license fee given the alternative. Radio 4 alone has got to be worth it. Of course, there are plenty of people who disagree with me here.

      What I can't understand is that they have the manpower to fund this project, but not to keep the ogg vorbis streams online... (http://support.bbc.co.uk/ogg/ [bbc.co.uk])

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by jilbert (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @02:26PM
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by BovineSpirit (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @03:43PM
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by Simon Brooke (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @04:15PM
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by tetranz (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @04:32PM
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by ollyg (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @05:18PM
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by akb (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @05:38PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by pubjames (Score:1) Saturday May 01 2004, @08:22AM
    • Re:UK government subsidizes BBC by adamsan (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @02:08PM
      • Re:Yes - UK government subsidizes BBC by adamsan (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @02:26PM
      • Re:Yes - UK government subsidizes BBC (Score:5, Informative)

        by mpk (10222) <mpk@uffish.net> on Friday April 30 2004, @02:28PM (#9021717)
        (http://uffish.net/)
        The BBC is not a part of the government, nor is it owned by or controlled by the government. While the BBC World Service is funded by an annual grant-in-aid from the Foreign Office, they have no editorial control (and the World Service is financially seperate from the rest of the corporation). The BBC has no shareholders.

        The BBC is legally a corporation established by Royal Charter and operates under strict rules of editorial independence and public service, which means that almost uniquely among broadcasters its job is to deliver programmes to audiences, rather than audience eyeballs to advertisers.

        In order to receive television broadcasts in the UK it's necessary to have a television licence (see the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 for details - in the old days you needed a licence for a radio as well, but no more). This isn't a tax, and the BBC isn't funded out of general taxation - it's a simple deal that if you want to watch television, you need a TV licence. The money from the TV licence goes to the BBC. In addition, the BBC makes a lot of money from the sale of programmes overseas and from various other commercial enterprises (magazines, DVDs, whatever). This money goes back into the BBC - there aren't any shareholders to be paid, just more programmes to be made.

        If you ask me, just under a tenner a month is a bargain for what it means - some of the best quality television in the world, a bunch of excellent radio stations and value-added stuff like news.bbc.co.uk. And what the TV licence means most of all is that all this stuff goes out without commercials and without commercial or political considerations. The BBC's editorial independence regularly lands it in hot water with governments who don't like it broadcasting certain things ("Maggie's Militant Tendency", the whole Hutton business). There's a lot of stuff which would never have appeared anywhere else as the BBC can actually take risks rather than just always following the path of maximum guaranteed commercial gain.

        Having recently taken a trip to the USA and tried watching television there, I really started to appreciate just how important the BBC is. Bite-size chunks of advertiser-friendly blandovision split up into five minute segments interspersed with huge amounts of commercials don't seem to educate, entertain and inform very much.

        Ultimately, nobody is forcing you to pay the television licence fee unless you have a television. If you don't want to have to get a licence, the choice to not own a television is available to you!
        [ Parent ]
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    • Re:How do they do it all for free? by leoxx (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @02:09PM
    • 7 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • by curious.corn (167387) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:40PM (#9021223)
    ... on which I refuse to argue, just mention. This is fantastic news folks! A publicly owned company, devoted to the production of Common Goods contributed to worldwide society an open, free (perhaps even performant) platform for the storage and distribution of the Commons' Intellectual Property. Socialist? Yeah, you betcha! (I'm sorry, I can't resist) Come on, quit whining and splitting hairs; you can't appreciate this stuff because it simply flies in the face of "american individualism":there's no Project Lead success icon to identify with, no blessed marketplace competition for the consumer's best interest, no visionary research successfully spinned off; just a bland, subsidized (sin!) government agency chewing on a political choice and actually delivering something concrete... oh, the horror! I expect to be modded into Flamebait oblivion but heck, aren't we always yapping about choice, information freedom and accessibility? If you don't like all this and rather shill for WMP or QT you only have to swipe your credit card at the cashier... grrr... if you feel for your pet open source codec, don't... this one is another tool in the fight agains the information mongers, how can that bother you is beyond me...
  • Gotta love Auntie (Score:4, Interesting)

    by psyconaut (228947) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:40PM (#9021226)
    I know that the BBC is somewhat of an enigma in broadcasting compared to what we're used to in North America (although some would argue networks like PBS and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation are somewhat similar)....but I can't help think how utterly cool it is the BBC does this sort of thing. Progressive (no pun intended) stuff like putting their achives online is also really damn cool...not to mention the fact they have *gobs* of content that a traditional broadcaster wouldn't have (I've been taking Welsh language lessons courtesy of the BBC!).

    -psy
  • Let's be clear. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by margal (696859) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:47PM (#9021299)
    I was fortunate enough to speak to a BBC employee about the codec at the Linux User & Developer Expo in London.

    For one, MXF and AFF are two wrappers for convential video codecs, which add invaluable meta data to the file.

    Dirac stands out as being a unique codec as it concentrates wavlets, motion compensation and arithmetic coding. This is not your standard codec.
  • The BBC patented the codec (Score:5, Interesting)

    by geeklawyer (85727) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:01PM (#9021472)
    (http://www.geeklawyer.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday December 04 2003, @04:17AM)
    I spoke to one of the BBC team demonstrating the codec at the London Linuxexpo. They said that the BBC had patented their codec although I was told that they have no real interest in patents. It was said to be a defensive patent whch they implied to me that they would not enforce, however the person I spoke to didnt know the details of the patent or its licencing scheme so it's a little unclear to me how this is going to work.

    They also said that while they had no objection to paying licensing fee's per se, and that they did pay MS and Real, these were so inflexible in their licencing that scaling up operations was problematic. Their expressed hope was that with such a codec widely adopted they could massively scale up operations such as streaming without being crippled with licencing costs, or having the administrative burden of unwieldy licensing schemes.

  • Background (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ChaoticCoyote (195677) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:13PM (#9021589)
    (http://www.coyotegulch.com/)

    A matter of disclaimer: I've done some work on Dirac, for BBC, over the last several months. Here's a bit of background on Dirac:

    By nature, Dirac has many similarities to existing algorithms such and MPEG-2 and H.264/AVC -- however, Dirac is an original invention that uses wavelet transforms, arithmetic encoding, rate-distortion optimization, variable block-size motion compensation, and hierarchical motion estimation in some new and unique ways. Again, this is a research project, so there's much experimentation to be done!

    As a research project, Dirac continues to be analyzed, optimized, and documented. What you're seeing now is very preliminary code; I suspect it will improve and evolve dramatically in the coming months, both in terms of clarity and functionality. The goal is to produce a universal codec, which is one reason behind the open source move.

    The codec source code is licensed under dual MPL/GPL licenses.

    Dirac is modular, and thus well-suited to implementation with an object-oriented programming language. The reference engine is written in ISO Standard C++, and has been tested under various forms of 32- and 64-bit Linux, as well as under Windows 2000/XP.

    I'll try to answer questions here, to the best of my ability.

    • Re:Background by zpok (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @02:19PM
      • Re:Background (Score:4, Informative)

        by ChaoticCoyote (195677) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:32PM (#9021765)
        (http://www.coyotegulch.com/)

        Will Dirac run under OS X?

        It should, but not having tested it on an OS X system leaves me hesitant to make an absolute promises. I don't know of anything in the codec that precludes it's working on OS X.

        The code compiles with GCC, and the current encoder and decoder are command-line applications. As time goes on, I suspect Dirac will gain user interfaces and connections to most popular operating systems and video applications -- including OS X.

        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Background by ChaoticCoyote (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @03:15PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Background by swb (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @02:32PM
      • Re:Background by ChaoticCoyote (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @02:35PM
    • Re:Background by TheSync (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @02:36PM
      • Re:Background by ChaoticCoyote (Score:3) Friday April 30 2004, @02:39PM
        • Re:Background by TheSync (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @03:23PM
    • Re:Background by jesup (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @02:46PM
      • Re:Background (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ChaoticCoyote (195677) on Friday April 30 2004, @03:07PM (#9022132)
        (http://www.coyotegulch.com/)

        Real-time encoding is one goal, but probably not our first target. I believe it will be possible, especially with parallelisation for multi-processor workstations.

        As for patents: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on Slashdot. I do not speak for BBC in any way; I'm just answering questions because everyone in Britain is home eating dinner at the moment.

        It's a very tricky world out there right now. Arithmetic coding can be implemented without hitting patents, I believe -- and the modular design of Dirac should allow a different coding scheme -- say, Huffman -- to be implemented if patents become an issue.

        [ Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Some questions by benwaggoner (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @03:10PM
    • Re:Background by Saeger (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @03:22PM
    • Re:Background by jdgeorge (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @04:02PM
      • Re:Background by ChaoticCoyote (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @04:06PM
    • OGG container by MenTaLguY (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @05:20PM
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  • Is this named after the same Dirac? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by DrewBeavis (686624) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:17PM (#9021609)
    http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathemati cians/Dirac.html [st-and.ac.uk]

    We have a library named after him here at Florida State University. Is this the same guy?

  • source code quality (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hak1du (761835) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:18PM (#9021622)
    (Last Journal: Monday April 12 2004, @04:18AM)
    Perhaps even more impressive than the improved bit rates is that the source code actually looks competently written and is small. It also seems to use C++ in a reasonable way: to achieve just around the right amount of abstraction, without building a useless, general framework.
    • Re:source code quality (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ChaoticCoyote (195677) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:27PM (#9021697)
      (http://www.coyotegulch.com/)

      The framework is changing as we profile and analyze the code.

      Speaking for myself (independent of Dirac), the best C++ code is the simplest code. Just because a feature exists doesn't mean it must be used -- and conversely, just because a feature can be used poorly doesn't mean it should never be used. The goal is to use the right C++ features for the job, and avoid become lost in a nest of complex classes and templates.

      There's nothing about Dirac, BTW, that requires C++, or even object-oriented programming.

      [ Parent ]
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  • The BBC's digital service is massive (Score:5, Informative)

    by tinla (120858) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:24PM (#9021674)
    (http://www.0daymeme.com/ | Last Journal: Friday August 24 2001, @10:54AM)


    Many people, esp our american friends, many not be familar with the sheer scale of the BBC's operation. There is a lot of dressing applied to their funding but in essence almost every UK home pays a BBC tax, giving them vast cash funds and allowing them to take a 'long term' view to development.

    This is very unpopular with their competition. People like Sky (NewsCorp) and ITV ('free' UK advert funded network tv) have no means of building the digital services the BBC have. Lets face it - both buy in a lot of programming from the US and that doesn't work well online.

    At a recent LINX meeting (a meeting of all the major UK ISPs and many of the major european ISPs) where the BBC gave a presentation about their 'Summer of sports' coverage. They are predicting up to 12Gbps (yes Gigabits) leaving their network during the olympics. This is a huge undertaking and requires them to put Gbps direct connections into the major UK ISPs such as BT. Without private peering of this type the BBC couldn't cope, LINX couldn't cope, the target ISP couldn't cope, it'd be meltdown all round. Their presentation was aimed at heading off a potential doom of them DOSing a major ISP into the ground.

    They're using Real at the moment. If they eventually move to an open codec the it will become a MAJOR player overnight. A national broadcaster using a codec to pump out Gigabits per second of content is the only case study/endorsement needed.

    I've not spoken to the techs pushing this within the BBC but the feeling I have from whitepapers, presentations and rumour are:

    - they need to be pragmatic. Its public money they're spending and the solution has to work. Currently the only solutions that work are propeirtary codecs.

    - They are under attack from the competition, who want to cut off their r&d funding which they see as unfair.

    - The intend to share their technology and want to grow the stability and performance through sharing things with their peers.

    For BBC network info (and a boatload of mrtg goodness) visit the ever popular support pages [bbc.co.uk]
  • mplayer support? (Score:2)

    by 42forty-two42 (532340) <bdonlan&gmail,com> on Friday April 30 2004, @03:53PM (#9022641)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday July 24, @05:09PM)
    Is there a patch to mplayer/mencoder to add support for this yet?
  • by oolon (43347) on Friday April 30 2004, @05:36PM (#9023604)
    Water looked alot better, still had some problems with key frames ghosting arround sharp edges the picture improved after a few deltas. It was pretty neat however sound is still a problem ogg is not high fi enough so they are going to license something.

    James
  • by kforeman (596891) * on Friday April 30 2004, @06:01PM (#9023841)
    Guys, as you may know we are busy building the world best 100% open source media player, called the Helix Player (https://player.helixcommunity.org). We welcome all open source codecs and formats, including Dirac.

    Secondly, this summer we will be releasing the RealPlayer 10 for Linux, which is built on top the Helix Player and includes the non-open source components of MP3, MPEG4, Flash, and RealAudio and RealVideo.

    Both the Helix Player and RealPlayer 10 have a Mozilla plug-in and are going to be a major no cost update for your current RealPlayer 8.

  • by Dr.Knackerator (755466) on Friday April 30 2004, @06:02PM (#9023855)
    (Last Journal: Monday June 14 2004, @01:58PM)
    Although there is nothing inherantly wrong with making a new codec and replacing that RealPlayer crap that requires me to terminate a process and remove it from my startup every fecking time - as writing a codec mainly requires hiring some good mathemeticians.

    I am worried that that we are funding this - in order to fund an immense data pipe so the rest of the world can take the programmes we have already paid for, whilst the current TV output from the BBC continues to suck as it doesnt have the money to experiment.

    The BBC is supposed to be a public service broadcaster. To me this means filling in the gaps that commercial services don't provide. The amount of money that gets poured into the internet services at the moment (BBCi) is outrageous, the commercial services can't compete.

    The Beeb is chasing ratings like it never has before. This means that if they strike on a successful formula they beat it to death. Or failing that they commision anything with a 'name' attached.

    They pay lots of money out to Camelot (our lottery provider) for the prestige of broadcasting the national lottery. Even though the interest in the show falls as does the revenues from the lottery.

    We get charged the same amount for BBC videos or DVDs as for other programmes even though we have bloody paid to make them and all they are doing is repackaging the stuff.

    The *only* public service stuff left is Radio 4, some of Radio 3 and some of BBC 2.

    We pay for a national network of local radio, which basically involves a bunch of gobshite 'DJs' around the country playing the same crap in highly expensive dedicated studios. This should be arranged like local TV, i.e. a main national programme running 85% of the time with local news and programmes added for the rest of the time. Why we need so many big studios around the UK is beyond me.

    The BBC is also running a number of digital TV stations, BBC3 which is 'youf' oriented and BBC4 which is supposed to be intelligent. ok lets look at these.

    BBC3 lacks viewers, because mainly it is total crap. Its shows generally suck. It contains feeble comedies which have been comissioned only because previously successfull artists are connected with the project. The transfer over to BBC2 at some point because they have no bloody money to make their own programmes because its being swallowed by this travesty of a channel. It also contains '60 second news' every hour. which is perhaps 30 seconds of news and 30 seconds of total waste of time 'celeb' news. Annoyingly they even do this in the middle of films (yes I want my viewing of Red October interrupted by a news report on posh/becks NOT). The films are only there to attact an audience that the home grown shows don't get.

    BBC4 markets itself as an intelligent channel, kind of like Radio4. Yeah they wish. generally a bunch of self indulgent documentaries, weak films, and 'high art' concerts (which are more suited to bloody radio FFS).

    Even BBC2 has gone down the drain. It doesn't take chances (the same chances that made some of the best TV shows in the last 20 years). Its flagship science programme 'Horizon' has abandoned being about explaining science and spends its 40 mins with great cinematography and a discussion of the personalities involved. The more 'public access' aspects have dissappeared.

    even the news output is going downhill. the online news is looking more like a tabloid newspaper every day.

    i could go on, but im a bit drunk (sorry for grammar/spelling). safe to say that i think its getting bad value for money.
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  • by Ricin (236107) on Friday April 30 2004, @06:15PM (#9023988)
    but why didn't they pick up and join/enhance theora?

    I mean if scaling in terms of licensing and perhaps also tech/performance was a problem with MS and with Real and that was one of the motivating factors, why not hook up with an existing emerging solution.

    With the patents and all, first I read its fortunately non patentable mathematics, then I read it's patent pending. Confusing.

  • by xquark (649804) on Friday April 30 2004, @07:57PM (#9024726)
    (http://www.partow.net/)
    Call me stupid but i can't find one article or document on their site
    that talks about the specifics of their encoder, are they using
    wavelets, or standard DCTs, are they using motion anticipation methods
    etc...

    does anyone know whats happening in the codec? I'm not about to d/l
    the source code and rummage through it ! I'm just too LAZY!

    Arash Partow
    __________________________________________ ________
    http://www.partow.net

  • High-def codecs (Score:2)

    by DaCool42 (525559) on Friday April 30 2004, @08:16PM (#9024857)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Anyone know how well Theora does/will work with high-def content? It would be interesting to see a comparisson of these 2 codecs at various bitrates.
  • public archive (Score:1)

    by rishistar (662278) on Saturday May 01 2004, @03:50AM (#9026495)
    (http://www.karmadillo.org/)

    So is this going to relate to last years story about releasing the BBC back catalog as a public archive? [millimeter.com] If they are planning to use P2P to distribute their stuff it would make sense to use their own video codec - and by using and Open Standard they can't be accused of backing a private company and limiting distribution of their material. eg TV, radio they broadcast is recievable on standard equipment in the UK - it would fulfil their public mandate to do the same when tey release that.

    Once again I am glad we do have the beeb over here;-)

  • by TapeCutter (624760) on Saturday May 01 2004, @09:04AM (#9027278)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday February 13 2007, @05:31PM)
    Thier expertise and considerable muscle will help standardise archive access over the internet and provide it as a public service. I think we are seeing the birth of a "public domain archive library". The open source community should congratulate them.
  • Re:Another one? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dubiousdave (618128) <dubiousdave@gmail.com> on Friday April 30 2004, @12:53PM (#9020683)
    (Last Journal: Friday December 01 2006, @04:14PM)
    Our algorithm seems to give a two-fold reduction in bit rate over MPEG-2 for high definition video (e.g. 1920x1080 pixels)

    That seems to answer your question, even without reading the article.

    [ Parent ]
  • it's open source! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by g00bd0g (255836) on Friday April 30 2004, @12:53PM (#9020684)
    (http://www.easyracers.com/)
    Because it's open source and being developed/supported by one of the bigger distibuters of video content on the web!
    [ Parent ]
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  • Re:Another one? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Phisbut (761268) <fmercille@h o t m a i l . c om> on Friday April 30 2004, @12:54PM (#9020703)
    True... just give me one free and powerful codec and I'll be happy... Can't we just have a standard here?
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Another one? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @01:36PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Another one? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30 2004, @12:57PM (#9020741)
    Yes, why would anyone need a new, free high quality codec that is backed by a huge media company? Why not use one of the patented, commercial codecs that Microsoft or Real.com want us to use?
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Another one? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Daltorak (122403) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:28PM (#9021090)
      Well, I suppose we could use Microsoft's Windows MediGeneral Protection Fault: Access Violation 0xc0000005 in WMPLAYER.EXE, Rebooting Now ...

      Bah, stupid Windows, let's try Real Player inst[BUFFERING......]ead, I hear it's mu[BUFFERING.........]ch better than it used to b[BUFFERING.........]e!

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Another one? by josh3736 (Score:1) Friday April 30 2004, @02:54PM
      • Sarcsam. by Thinkit4 (Score:2) Friday April 30 2004, @03:03PM
  • Re:Another one? (Score:3, Informative)

    by HBPiper (472715) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:07PM (#9020848)
    Because this CODEC uses WAVELETS and Wavelet theory is probably one of the most useful tools for working with time varying signals that has been developed. It is especially useful in high quality compression algorithms. Here is a decent background article on Wavelets [beyonddiscovery.org].
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Xvid? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30 2004, @01:08PM (#9020857)

    Who modded this pile of crap as informative?

    From the Xvid FAQ [xvid.org]

    What is XviD? XviD is an ISO MPEG-4 compliant video codec. It's no product, it's an open source project which is developed and maintained by lots of people from all over the world.

    And don't get me started on all the other crap, audio? FFS, it's a video codec! You have to include audio an either mp3/ogg/wav/whathaveyou into the stream.

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Xvid? (Score:2, Redundant)

    What the hell are you talking about? Clearly not the same XviD [xvid.org] that everyone else knows.

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Xvid? (Score:3, Troll)

    by Jameth (664111) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:10PM (#9020888)
    This is total crap. Xvid can be interleaved with audio just fine and is enormously better than just a series of JPEGs.

    The parent is completely full of crap.
    [ Parent ]
  • by imsabbel (611519) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:12PM (#9020907)
    Parent post is either Troll or REALLY sarcastic....
    NONE of his facts are true. NONE.

    But in response to the greatparents post:
    Xvid isnt free. Its opensource, but it violates MANY patents if you actually use it.
    [ Parent ]
  • Patents (Score:5, Informative)

    by Kjella (173770) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:15PM (#9020945)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    The source is licence-free, but it is not patent free. Pay MPEG LA or it's illegal. For you and every other individual out there that might not matter, but the BBC couldn't use it without paying.

    Kjella
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:BBC = british government (Score:5, Informative)

    by Cocodude (693069) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:18PM (#9020975)
    (http://www.alpha-programming.co.uk/)

    Er, BBC != british government

    It's on sourceforge, and is entirely open. Its licenses, as stated by sourceforge are: GNU General Public License (GPL), GNU Library or Lesser General Public License (LGPL), Mozilla Public License 1.1 (MPL 1.1), so you could hardly say it's 'owned' by the BBC, let alone the british government.

    Cocodude

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Xvid? (Score:2, Funny)

    by smu johnson (309071) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:21PM (#9021009)
    hey man

    we were commissioned to be in charge of video archiving for our university and couldn't decide which codec to use to archive the student films and such for our school, let alone what software to use.

    I heard some stuff about xvid, divx, etc, and based on a bit of word of mouth, thought about giving xvid a try. I read your post. I honestly can't believe I was actually about to use xvid for the job. thank god i came across this page. The part that influenced the decision mostly was the +1 informative moderation backing up your facts.

    later man
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Another one? (Score:1)

    by the chao goes mu (700713) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:27PM (#9021084)
    Because now we can have a whole new set of flame-wars over which codec is the best/fastest/most free (as in speech, or beer, or mumia, or bird...)
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:seems they were ahead of me (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Cocodude (693069) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:33PM (#9021147)
    (http://www.alpha-programming.co.uk/)
    That's interesting. When I visited the R and D centre, they said that WMP streaming had a royalty model which they didn't like. They prefered Real's and gave no hint that they'll be doing WMP soon, but rather concentrate on Dirac. This is of course in an informal demonstration/chat, not official information.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:BBC = british government (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Neophytus (642863) * on Friday April 30 2004, @01:34PM (#9021161)
    Since the BBC is the media-organ branch of the British government, this means government-owned codecs. Is this a good thing?

    Unlike some of the stateside media organisations the BBC is actually one of the world's most impartial media organisations. I'm not saying they are perfect but some US news bulletins I cann't watch without laughing.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:seems they were ahead of me (Score:2, Informative)

    by polyp2000 (444682) on Friday April 30 2004, @01:36PM (#9021183)
    (http://www.polyprecords.com/ | Last Journal: Friday October 03 2003, @02:20PM)
    I think that was a really good letter, and raised the important issues at hand. Again to re-iterate, the BBC is a public funded organisation (although some might question this) it is important that it isnt seen to be hindering accessibility for everyone. Anyone who owns a TV in the UK is forced to pay for a TV license which is intended to pay for the BBC services. This is in addition to any monthly fees paid for choice cable or satellite channels.

    I wrote a similar complaint to the BBC a while back regarding a video stream that I simply couldnt play without hacking the URL out of the source HTML (under linux). The BBC have a duty to ensure that everyone is able to view its content.

    Nick ...
    [ Parent ]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30 2004, @01:37PM (#9021201)
    None of those are codecs. XVideo is a video conferencing program, you're thinking of the XviD codec. MKV is the Matroska video container, and OGM is the Ogg Media container.

    And quit your bitching.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Xvid? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30 2004, @01:43PM (#9021263)
    Xvid is based off the MPEG-4 specification by the MPEG Consortium. There are separate fees paid to the consortium for using MPEG-4 encoding and decoding ALGORITHMS. The fees are specifically for having an encoder, a decoder, and for encoded content per copy.

    Xvid releases only source because if they released binaries they would be required to pay the fees for MPEG-4 encoders and decoders each time someone downloaded a binary.

    While I'm not sure exactly what the fees are, there is about a $20 royalty for MPEG-2 decompression for a hardware or software DVD player. This is why Microsoft disabled DVD playback on the Xbox unless you pay $30 for the remote kit ($20 for the fee, $10 for the plastic remote).

    This is also why Chinese DVD player manufacturers wanted to make their own DVD playback standard back when because when you're making a $20 DVD player you have just as much cost in licensing as you do the player. They obviously want to eliminate that.
    [ Parent ]
  • by AtariAmarok (451306) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:12PM (#9021573)
    "Many languish in jail who cannot afford to pay this 'license fee'."

    Do you have any information about how many Britons are languishing in prisons for not paying the license fee? I did not know it was that serious. As Amnesty International written a report on this?

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:licence fee (Score:2)

    by Nexus Seven (112882) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:12PM (#9021577)
    Many languish in jail who cannot afford to pay this 'license fee'.

    Hmmm - care to back this up?
    [ Parent ]
  • by AtariAmarok (451306) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:17PM (#9021611)
    "How come CNN didn't report the fiasco about Sinclair Broadcast Group"

    They did [cnn.com]. You can't watch a few minutes of something and then say "Oh! They never reported story X!"

    Unless you meant another story....

    [ Parent ]
  • Re:great now when I download a fansub (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 30 2004, @02:20PM (#9021645)
    You sir, have betrayed your ignorance and stupidity with your comment. Extensions do not a codec indicate. A .avi can use DivX, Xvid, Indeo, or any of another number of codecs. each of those codecs can also be used in a .ogm or a .mkv (and Xvid is NOT short for Xvideo, that's a completely different bit of technology related to X11) A .avi merely shows the format the audio/video is stored in. (eg: it's a container) A .ogm stores them a different way than a .avi (and .ogm/.mkv can handle more types of media than a .avi, multiple subtitles and audio streams that can be switched through during playback, depending on your media player) A Matroska (.mkv) file can even have DVD-style menus(although I'm not certain that the tools have been released for that yet, but the format is extendable and does support it)...
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:WTF? (Score:2)

    by Performer Guy (69820) on Friday April 30 2004, @02:46PM (#9021920)
    They probably read as far as "it blows", it's extremely bad moderation.
    [ Parent ]
  • Are you sure? (Score:1)

    by fdobbie (226067) on Friday April 30 2004, @03:11PM (#9022167)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    If you can't afford to pay, don't have a TV (which you presumably can't afford to buy, either). This way you do not break the law.

    However, I find it hard to believe you can't afford to pay a television license fee, as if you look at the council flats around here (people who "can't afford" to pay for their own housing) they're covered in satellite dishes dotted all over the walls and roofs.
    [ Parent ]
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  • Re:licence fee (Score:1)

    by Saiai Hakutyoutani (599875) on Friday April 30 2004, @05:05PM (#9023336)
    I also disagree with using a flat tax to finance state broadcasting, as we tend to do in northern Europe for some reason.

    However, I think we should leave that for now and try to ensure that they don't start applying a flat tax to the Internet. I'm prett sure state broadcasting is gonna want to get into that.
    [ Parent ]
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  • Re:Xvid? (Score:1)

    Thanks for giving me a true laugh. Its a pity no-one else noticed your sarcasm.
    [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • It is named as a tribute to a great British phycisit/mathematician. Hope it lives up to its namesake.
    [ Parent ]
  • 19 replies beneath your current threshold.