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100% Open Source Helix Player 'Alpha' Available 283
kforeman (Kevin Foreman, Helix GM at RealNetworks) writes "Helix Player 1.0 and RealPlayer 10 Alpha are now available. The Helix Player is 100% open source, and includes support for Ogg Vorbis and Theora, as well as SMIL 2.0 so that you can combine Theora videos with JPEG, GIF, or PNG images and RealText. The RealPlayer 10 alpha is a superset of the Helix Player alpha, and adds support for RealAudio, RealVideo, MP3, and Flash. See the release notes to find out about the rest of the enhancements and give the players a whirl. We love your feedback and comments as always, so use any avenue you are comfortable with (forums, email, bugzilla) and let us know what you think! The team has tried hard to get all the bad bugs out, but remember that it's alpha and constantly improving with your feedback and help. Enjoy the player!"
Now all that (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Now all that (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Now all that (Score:2, Interesting)
Even if I could comprehend other people's source code, it's pretty dry readi
Re:Now all that (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Now all that-To code with a view. (Score:2)
warning, (Score:5, Informative)
Re:warning, (Score:5, Informative)
Hrm, I just DLed the source file and it didn't do that.
Anyways, you should always use:
To prevent from this sorta thing
Sunny Dubey
Re:warning, (Score:2)
Both bz2 files extract to the working dir..
[,,,]
You should always use:
tar xvjf foobar.tar.bz -C $extraction_dir
To prevent from this sorta thing
Useful only if you know IN ADVANCE that it dumps to cwd. Unless you do it as sop, which will give you a possibly confusing directory structure.
Re:warning, (Score:2)
A couple things: The community developed RealPlayer for Linux and the OSS Helix player don't contain all the crap that the RealOnePlayer on Windows does. I've only used the Realplayer for linux and it does what's needed* and little more.
* What needed?
Not a player for Ogg, mpg, avi, mov, etc, but a player for Real's closed source video streams. As much as I dislike
What's the point? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What's the point? (Score:5, Informative)
Jeroen
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point? (Score:3, Informative)
This FAQ [helixcommunity.org] talks about this differentiation in detail.
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
The downside of this set is that a lot of calculations are not allowed with infinity since it would be dependant what x was.
Its a sort of one way system...
An easier way to handle this kind of things is limits. x/y where y reaches zero from above will have an result that reaches infinity. (Not sure I said the last thing right in english)
Jeroen
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point? (Score:3, Informative)
Jeroen
Re:What's the point? (Score:5, Informative)
1. Native ffmpeg or mplayer-only (I seem to recall it being libavcodec based (in other words: ffmpeg) but ffmpeg's online docs don't show realvideo just realaudio.) realvideo support. It has drawbacks: doesn't always play things correctly, and only is rv10 and rv20 (real video 1 & 2, and not 3 & 4)
2. Native Linux real codec. It uses the files that install with realplayer to play realaudio/realvideo. It is the native decoder made by real, so it works nearly as well as real ever works.
3. Windows dll codecs. Similar to the Linux codecs, but it uses the windows codec via a loader that branched from wine years ago. Same advantages as #2, but drawback of having to have windows dlls, and the even thornier legal questions.
Please note that #3 is available only on x86, while #2 is available on alpha & x86 (might be more if realplayer ran on other versions of linux) and that #1 was at one time (and still may be) limited to x86 due to problems with the code, though it should work on other archs. (That last I looked DID affect ffmpeg's sorensen video codecs, they are/were x86 only.)
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point? (Score:2, Informative)
it does however use a real plugin (for linux).
Doesn't seem native to me.
mplayer as alternative RealMedia front-end? (Score:3, Insightful)
If mplayer did this on non-i386-compatible platforms, and if it did this with a program for which there was complete corresponding source code available under a free software [gnu.org] license, I'd say you have made an excellent point. However, I believe that the only reason mplayer plays RealMedia is because mplayer calls the same library Real's player does. Which makes mplayer little more than an alternative RealMedia front-end; the library which does the actual decoding work is no more trustworthy because it bei
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
Neither for rtsp support. (You do need the live.com library for it though)
Jeroen
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
Jeroen
Re:What's the point? (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe to take advantage of unique promotional offers, special "member" content deals, opportunity to buy the deluxe version, discounts on merchandise, and news about regular updates.
What more could you want???
Re:What's the point? (Score:2, Interesting)
You question is almost like asking "Why install mplayer w/o any w32 codecs when there is xine (or whatever player you'd like) that does the same?".
I'm pretty sure that Real would've gotten alot more attention from the community if they've been doing this a few years earlier. Back then, when
Re:What's the point? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What's the point? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What's the point? (Score:4, Insightful)
They've started an open source project that further strengthens their commitment to linux, though I would like to see more, but how can you fault them? Here's a market that regularly uses questionable codecs constantly, yet Real is trying to make itself available legally in our market. Do you see Windows Media player for Linux? iTunes for linux? If you do, tell me because I don't know about them.
Also, this is a company who has been snubbed out of a market by MS's desktop domination... I mean
And on another note, most of my friends in the AV industry have said that the Real codec is, if not the best, in the top two ( next to MPEG-4 ) in quality/compression. ( of the formats in relatively common use today ).
Now.. on the NEGATIVE side, this is VERY very alpha type stuff (Helix) from what I've seen and I'm not aware of a Real Mozilla plugin, but then again I've not googled for it.
Standalone players ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Standalone players ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Standalone players ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Mix streams using SMIL (Score:4, Informative)
Moreover, the Helix DNA Producer [helixcommunity.org] (also open source) has the sort of pipelining functionality you are talking about.
Rob Lanphier
Developer Support Manager [realnetworks.com]
RealNetworks
So... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So... (Score:2)
I get annoyed that the BBC, which I pay for, only uses Real formats for their distribution (Dirac, I know, I know). What this means for all of my windows friends/relatives is they all run RealPlayer, and all hate the pop-ups, nags, etc. On principle the BBC should not be making their funders use a commercial format, when there are dozens of viable open formats.
Re:So... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:5, Informative)
Using mplayer, record the .rm file to disk as it is being streamed:
mplayer -dumpstream -dumpfile xxx.rm rtsp://where/the/stream/is
Then, using Linux, wait for 5 minutes and start playing the file from disk in a separate console:
mplayer xxx.rm
This way, you have 5 minutes worth of cached stream, and you'll never see the "buffering" message or other pauses ever again.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:So... (Score:2)
It's always been a terrible player, though.
Re:So... (Score:2)
I run Linux on my router, Xbox and TiVo, and no-where else. My powerbook runs a better multics simulator as standard and my x86 runs WinXP (only ever over RDP from the powerbook though - bit faster and more useful than a virtual PC).
Re: So when can I watch a .rm without filling my s (Score:2, Funny)
Just do rm -rf /.
Re: So when can I watch a .rm without filling my s (Score:2)
Once a-f*cking-gain: (Score:5, Insightful)
Lots of Ads at startup? And a crappy website for years on end? Ok, I'll give you that. But anything else is just plain baseless FUD!
I must say that I am gratefull for Real actually offering a Linux Player for their stuff long befor any other company had the amount of braincells to grasp the concept of alternative OSes.
It works, doesn't look to crappy, even on Motiv-only systems (which is quite an achievement, admit it) and SMIL is actually a very nice thing and was an official, fully XML compliant open standard long before SVG even crossed the mind of any one at Adobe and Macromedia still was f*cking around with a crappy Flash 4 that couldn't even get it's own IDE sorted out. Not that they have been able to do that up to date.
That this OSS Helix Player is bound to be the first one to support SMIL 2 is an impressive thing and could actually use some moral support. Real back in the dot-boom days was the only thing you actually could do dynamic rich media media with. I was doing SMIL with an EDITOR back then. Try that with any other 'open' standard even today.
As soon as this works I'm outta Flash 2k4 Pro again in an instant. Unless Macromedia gets a grip and sorts out their serious IDE problems. They actually should do that before they semi-port stuff for Linux with Wine, imho.
Bottom Line: Quit the Spyware Legend and support a working streaming media standard that isn't half as nazi about DRM than Mickeysoft.
Re:Once a-f*cking-gain: (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe we just have differing definitions.
Re:Once a-f*cking-gain: (Score:4, Insightful)
1) the last player for linux was realplayer 8... are you saying rp8 has an smtp engine and spyware? It runs without asking and you can't stop it? then you obviously have never used realplayer8 on linux and dont know how to use your linux system. I've never had rp8 add a run level 3 start script.
2) I just tried realplayer for linux and I had none of the issues you speak of above.
Do people not realize that this is a good thing? I for one am happy we have the beginnings of another player on linux that's open source to boot.
Re:So... (Score:2)
I dislike having to install all of the above to watch something I paid for [bbc.co.uk] in the first place (10.56 per month last I checked).
Re:So... (Score:2)
Then vote with your wallet, and don't buy it. You can complain all you want, but as long as they're collecting your monthly fee they have no incentive to change anything.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:3, Interesting)
Admittedly, there are still some damnable apps that will reinsert their startup program into your registry. If they don't have an option to disable their run-on-startup crap (note that even Realplayer and Quicktime do) I would suggest uninstalling that app unless it's absolutely essential to y
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:You already can (Score:2)
No windows port... (Score:4, Interesting)
Why do some many open source developers limit their program to just the linux world? On my main workstation (XP box - don't work, I have linux servers just about everywhere), I have Mozilla, Firefox, Thunderbird, FileZilla, Nvu, OpenOffice, VideoLAN, GAIM, Dev C++, and many more.
Re:No windows port... (Score:5, Informative)
Most programs are more limited to the posix world than to the linux world and will run (maybe with some minor tweaking) on anything that resembles unix.
For a lot of open source developpers its a hobby... Why should I care about windows? It is such a pain it is just no fun....
I am not a big corporation wanting as many customers as possible, I don't car about windows users.... I like programming and if someone finds my stuff usefull than great, but it wasn't the reason for writting it.
But the source is available, if someone wants a windows version its possible (just don't wait for me doing it for you).
Jeroen
Re:No windows port... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No windows port... (Score:3, Insightful)
You can join and start to maintain Windows port on any of those Open Source softwares !
The original developers probably use open source systems (Linux/...BSD) and they develop the system starting their own needs. Yet they give anyone opportunity to port the software to other systems if someone is willing todo it.
Codename HXPlayer? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Codename HXPlayer? (Score:4, Interesting)
Like Mac OS X is an open source layer with stuff on it. You can install Darwin if you want, but it's more interesting as the open source base for other things. In this case, hxplayer (the eight character abbreviation) as a media framework.
Helix Player doesn't compile (Score:4, Informative)
Guys, if you are reading this, please try to compile your player with a newer GTK+.
And another one, there is no "make install" facility, how do you install that thing (if it compiles?)
Re:Helix Player doesn't compile (Score:2, Informative)
http://lists.helixcommunity.org/pipermail/p l ayer-d ev/2004-May/000439.html
The Real/Helix engineers should have TESTED with gtk 2.4.x before releasing the 1.0alpha version. I mean, they didn't even bother downloading a GTK+ version released 2 months ago already before they unleash their cr@p on us and having the compilation fail consistently!
And btw, why there's no "make install"? How do you install that thing indeed?
Re:Helix Player doesn't compile (Score:3, Informative)
We appreciate you pointing out the fix to the problem. However, contrary to popular belief, just because we're a "big" company, we don't have infinite army of developers to apply to this, and one of the things that drives us crazy about Linux right now is the practically infinite combination of compilers, libraries, and so on that all tend to break backwards compatibility on a frequent basis. With respect to company size, I say "big" because in the grand scheme
thanks for nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
seeing as the player is useless without the closed source binary only codec why should i download this player ?
there are plenty of open source players that do what this player does, we all know no-one is interested in the player and everyone wants to see the codec source and Real isnt going to do that so the offer of "100% open source" is worthless
of course this isnt really about the player but the codec and the server, we all know that if JoeSchmoe needs to play realAudio (because your server is serving it up (hopes Real)) he will download the spyware infested nagware RealOne not the helix player
Real must think us developers are stupid if they think we cant see through their helixcommunity as a fake "wannabe" project staffed by employees, Real are no more interested in Open source as Microsoft is
Re:thanks for nothing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:thanks for nothing (Score:5, Interesting)
Extended disclaimer, for the paranoid: Pentium assembly language isn't a secret, reverse engineering for the purpose of creating interoperable products is explicitly permitted, and it's never illegal to decrypt something if you can prove you are the intended recipient.
Re:thanks for nothing (Score:2)
never illegal to decrypt something if you can prov (Score:2, Informative)
Re:thanks for nothing (Score:2)
Re:thanks for nothing (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:thanks for nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
"of course this isnt really about the player but the codec and the server"
Isn't it actually the reverse of that? The problem with putting Real Player on your computer (historically) is that you get a bunch of other crap in the bargain. You go to watch some Real video and then Badness 10,000 happens and you cry yourself to sleep.
Well, that's the player right? The player has all sorts of spyware. The codec is just encode and decode. I'm sure there are AV flavored geeks out there who would love to look at the codec code, but I guess I figure most people aren't that interested.
I've read here (what?! trusting what you read in
"I don't like the spyware in real player!"
"OK, so run helix w/ the closed source real codec - helix is open source and all the crap can be / has been removed."
Is this not the case?
Re:thanks for nothing (Score:2)
Name one reasonably successful open source media player that does not rely on closed source standards for at least a little of its success. Good luck.
Great! (Score:5, Informative)
The first one is free says the shadowy man... (Score:5, Funny)
Login with this ID:
Username: raspberry
Password: wedontneednostinkinpasswords
enjoy.
Debian packages ? (Score:3, Insightful)
If Helix is 100 % free it should find its way to the official Debian servers soon.
License is here (Score:3, Informative)
https://helixcommunity.org/content/rpsl [helixcommunity.org]
Open source or free software? An evaluation would be nice.
Install the RPM (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd prefer a codec (Score:3, Interesting)
I use OS X, and I'd love to be able to drop a Real decoder into my QuickTime directory and have full access to Real files in any QT-capable app (which is most of them). They've released an encoder, but no decoder yet.
Re:I'd prefer a codec (Score:2)
Install on non RPM based distros (Score:4, Informative)
Cool! A Symbian version! :) (Score:4, Interesting)
That phone already contains an older version of Realplayer, but according to the site, you can simply install this version on top.
People, stop bitching about Real and remember the fact that they are still the only one of the big three media player providers (Mediaplayer, Quicktime, Realplayer) who have ever taken the Linux platform seriously.
Even with opening a major part of the source (though not the GPL), they went a lot further in openness than the others ever did.
Also, A recent remark from someone working at Real (in response to Apple's Itunes patent) pleased me: "In the ten years that we've been developing and offering Realplayer, we never patented any part of our GUI".
Of course, that doesn't mean they never patented anything else in their software, but at least they've thrown their full weight behind open patent free codecs such as Vorbis and Theora in addition to their own technology!
Real, you are hereby forgiven for all your previous adware/nagware crimes!
Download this player and help to maintain Real's (still considerable) market share to keep Microsoft at bay! Real has seriously reached out to our community and we need all the allies we can get. We would be fools not to accept them on our side.
3gpp support (Score:2)
Yes, mplayer can be made to play back the video in that format, but as far as I know, it still doesn't support the format's sound stream codec yet. I'm sure Real's new player does.
Very nice.
Quit bitching. (Score:5, Insightful)
RealPlayer 10 (alpha) was an easy install
Real needs our support, not our scorn. If you have a problem with their business model, or the 'extras' that are installed on the Windows platform, it would behoove you to politely tell them what your problems are. You are, after all, a customer. But please, for the sake of all of us, shut off the Slashbot hive mind for a couple of minutes and consider that Real is one of the VERY FEW things standing between Microsoft and a total WMA/WMV monopoly.
Re:Quit bitching. (Score:2)
They are still evil.
Re:Quit bitching. (Score:5, Informative)
Any company which develops software that spies on its users and interferes with the operation of their computer deserves our scorn.
RealPlayer (on Windows):
- Runs on login
- Displays ads in the "messege center" (even when you are not running RealPlayer)
- Sends the URLs of the websites and clips you view back to Real
- Sends a unique ID so Real can track your habits
- Takes over file exensions
- Resets the auto-run-at-login registry key if you delete it
- Displays advertisements all over the interface
- Misleads individuals into purchasing subscriptions
- Attempts to conceal the fact that they offer a free player
- Displays advertisments in the player after 30 seconds of inactivity
- Requires personal information and an internet connection to "activate" it
Why would a company which produces such crapware deserve anything *but* our scorn.
Real has been doing this crap for *years*. Their software was the first major product to contain spyware, and it set a benchmark for scum matched only recently by Gator and friends.
Being polite isn't going to get anything done. Real's product is crap and their policies are crap.
My problem with their business model is that they are a bunch of con-artists. I had to spend TWO HOURS on the phone with them after my grandmother accidentally signed herself up for a subscription to their "SuperPass". Real lured her in with a big sign that said "free" and small text that described what she was really doing (signing up for a 14-day "free trial" which auto-bills after 14 days and can only be canceled by calling Real).
Not to mention the advertisements for "full screen high quality video". Yeah, that will work great over my Grandmom's 56K modem. Yet the disclamer ("Broadband required") was in 6 point type at the bottom of the page.
Oh, and the advertisement she got to upgrade to the "Free!" RealOne player (actually just a free trial that auto-billed) was in her older version of RealPlayer - integrated into the plugin, so it looked like a part of the NPR page.
I WILL NEVER USE ANOTHER REAL PRODUCT EVER AGAIN. OPEN SOURCE, CLOSED SOURCE, FREE OR PAID, EVEN IF THEY CORRECT ALL OF THE ISSUES IN THEIR SOFTWARE, I CANNOT AND WILL NOT USE PRODUCTS FROM A COMPANY WHICH ENGAGES IN SUCH MORALLY REPREHENSABLE PRACTICES.
Re:Quit bitching. (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, as a publicly traded company, we've gotta make money, so you are essentially correct. Our revenue comes mainly from subscriptions these days, with really great growth around our RealRhapsody [real.com] service.
Helix Player not supporting Real formats? (Score:3, Interesting)
Right, what does this mean?
Does this mean that Helix does not support RealAudio and RealVideo? I downloaded a development release a while back, and it's not a bad player. I used it to listen to a streaming radio station. If I can't do that with the new Helix Player, what's the point? I'd need to download the bulky RealOne (easier, yes, since they stopped HIDING it on their site, but not open source). Why wouldn't they add this basic codec support to it?
Can someone clarify this? I was kind of excited about this project, but now I'm starting to wonder ...
Helix Player is RealPlayer (Score:3, Interesting)
The source code + binary add-ons for the RealPlayer 10 alpha for Linux are available from our CVS repository [helixcommunity.org], and will be available soon as a tarball [helixcommunity.org].
Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager [realnetworks.com]
RealNetworks
Please cooperate with Gstreamer (Score:4, Interesting)
Gstreamer's plugin system is ideal for making a proprietary codec such as Real available to open source players, without having to open source or give up control of your codec. The benefit to you is that all of the codecs supported by the current Gstreamer plugins would be available to Helix player, without any additional work by your developers.
Gstreamer developers have approached the Helix developers and offered to cooperate [gnome.org] in the past, but received only an absurd response about "splintering" [gnome.org].
Cooperation between Helix and other media frameworks would be mutually beneficial. Lack of cooperation only ensures that Real's codec will marginalized on Linux and eventually obsoleted.
Re:hmmm... (Score:3, Interesting)
One is full open source (Helix Player, no support for Real codecs...)
One is not (Supports Real Codecs...) Real does not open up their own codecs for obvious reasons.
Re:hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Helix player is retarded (Score:3, Informative)
Also, I thought you ALWAYS had to have permission to simply drop a patch in. If you don't like the way it's going, grab Helix Alpha 1, and throw your own crap on, and call it Protein Media Player 0.1 or something.
Re:screenies? (Score:5, Informative)
They don't [helixcommunity.org].
Re:screenies? (Score:2)
I sincerely hope not. :-D
I believe what you're looking for can be found here [gentoo.org]. ;-)
short answer no (Score:2)
Re:short answer no (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm trying to think of a way to do tivo-style recording and time-shifting with an Australian radio station (Triple J) which is broadcast via both RealAudio and WMA, I want to set up a system that'll record the breakfast show from Australia at Australia times, and play it back at breakfast time here (etc.). It'd only have to record the latest 9-11 hours of data, which wouldn't take up that much room if it were ogg-vorbis-encoded.
I'll take a look at that Streambox VCR program, but if anyone
Re:short answer no (Score:4, Insightful)
Ummm, mplayer? Seriously! You have to install the Real codecs, but it does fine with them, provided the website hasn't totally obfuscated the link (I can view the source on 90% of pages and get a link MPLayer can hit).
Mplayer will stream to hard disk, and iirc will also just output to stdout, and you can pipe that directly into oggenc, if you'd like.
Re:short answer no (Score:2)
Re:Record from realmedia stream? (Score:5, Informative)
No, the good ones are just ... (Score:2)
-5, Not Informative (Score:5, Insightful)
The Helix / Real Player being talked about is for Linux / Solaris or Symbian OSes. So why compare it to WinAmp, when WinAmp doesn't run on any of these OSes, nor is the source code available ?