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Open Source vs. the Database Vendors
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:29 PM
from the the-battle-is-joined dept.
from the the-battle-is-joined dept.
bhmit1 writes "BusinessWeek has another spread on open source this week. Among them is an article about open source vs. the database vendors which focused on how businesses are looking to save money with open source (rather than using the source to innovate). From the article: "The databases work fine, but as data volume grows, so do the checks to Oracle, IBM, or Microsoft. Many users aren't clamoring for more features, and some don't even use the bells and whistles they already paid for. They would happily trade some to get their hands on the source code and a better deal." Disclaimer: that quote came from Sony."
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Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Duh. Isn't that the #1 draw for the majority of OSS users out there? Sure there are some that are in it for the politics and others who actually try to contribute, but let's face it, the majority of people use it because it's free (as in beer).
Re:Obvious (Score:5, Interesting)
Until now, the free databases lacked accessibility for "drive by" business users. You don't have time to explore every option, even if it might lead to a better decision. Install Unix to check this thing out? Not today thank you.
MySQL as it now stands is probably the simplest real RDBMS for the casual shopper. It's just as easy as MS SQL server, and MS is the only vendor who understands the importance of the casual shopper. Postgres is not far behind.
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Re:Obvious (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Obvious (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a really good argument for letting developers decide the technology rather than managers. Personally I would generally choose Postgres because I like the way it works and I have a good knowledge of it. MySQL would be up there on my list as well. I've used SQL Server (and just about all the other commercial offerings) and found it to be good but over complex for a lot of applications. Any developer that is writting detabase driven apps should be at least familiar with most commercial databases and Po
Re:Obvious (Score:3)
$0 is nice but I bought my first copy of Slackware [slackware.com] long before I could download it, I even had to copy it to (I think 22) floppies from cdrom so I could install it.
And even after I have downloaded them, I've paid for FreeBSD [freebsd.org], plan9 [bell-labs.com] and Inferno [vitanuova.com].
Free as in Freedom is more important than you give it credit for.
Just one business case is that one can mitigate risk by having multiple OS vendors to choose from. I know that if my chosen OS goes kaput or gets litigated out of existence then I won't go with it. A
depends (Score:5, Insightful)
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Large Wallets + Small understanding = nothing new. (Score:5, Interesting)
In addition, many database users don't have a realistic understanding of what constitutes a lot of data. I've met quite a few people that think a 10k row database is huge, and anything in the 1 million record range is absolutely gargantuan! To me, anything less than 1 million records is downright tiny. Seriously, many of these users don't need an "enterprise" RDBMS for scalability reasons, which is what leads many customers to open their wallets. Something like Postgres or MySQL would be more than adequate for their needs.
That is not to say there are not users who need the enterprise features, but it amazes me the amount of money that is dumped into features that most small to medium size deployments don't even use.
It is very educational to see how Oracle for example is used in real world deployments. Open source aside, I have seen many where the user may have been better served by just using a properly setup MS Access or FileMaker database!
-Pete
Re:Large Wallets + Small understanding = nothing n (Score:3, Insightful)
Has anybody else encountered projects for database-driven websites where the script monkeys want to use the database like text file system accessed with SQL, and do all of the logic in script on the web server? I suspect that people understand procedural code most readily, and despise thinking in the set-theoretical terms of SQL. I used to be that way, until I started realizing
It's the data... (Score:5, Insightful)
And if you've paid for Oracle/DB2 and you're training your staff on and using Oracle/DB2 anyway then it doesn't make a load of sense to introduce different RDBMS systems that your DBAs and administrators are completely unfamiliar with, especially when you've got that Oracle box sitting there underutilised.
Ultimately you're right, 95% of apps could be served perfectly well by mysql, postgresql, msaccess, filemaker etc. Corporate IT depts should really create two categories of RDBMS systems, vital and casual. The vital ones being the core business operations and casual being everything else.
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I've been fighting to get this done. (Score:4, Interesting)
It is not IT's job. IT just gives everyone the pricing based upon how many 9's of availablility you want and the database/server licenses.
If the user balks at that, the database can be put on the far less expensive PostgreSQL/mySQL server.
The downside is that the database people need to become familiar with TWO different databases (or more depending upon the other apps).
The upside is that the company saves a LOT of money in licenses and such.
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Re:Large Wallets + Small understanding = nothing n (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree 100%. I have worked on plenty of development jobs where management wanted to use SQL Server (normally) or another big name database because they thought they had a lot of data. Typically we were storing a few hundred products and maybe 10000 orders. I voiced the opinion that that wasn't much data and an OSS database such as Postgres or MySQL would easily handle it. I've never recieved such dirty looks. I think the managers want the prestiege of using a "real" database.
Not everyone cares about Coding... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not everyone cares about Coding... (Score:4, Informative)
The Slashdot hive mind may not like the idea of being tied to a particular database or vendor but in the Real World businesses choose their databases carefully and stick with them for a long time, often forever. With this in mind you exploit every single option available when programming and stored procedures along with proper filesystem layout, column indexing and schema design are key to a high performance database.
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Can't hear you... la-la-la (Score:5, Interesting)
A company such as SAP (SAP) could be pivotal. The German software giant is locked in an applications war with Oracle, but the bulk of companies running SAP applications run them on Oracle databases. So even when SAP wins an application deal, it's often making money for its archrival. That doesn't sit well with ultracompetitive SAP, which already has a burgeoning partnership with MySQL. Closer ties there could mean more SAP applications on MySQL databases. Elsewhere, Red Hat (RHAT) has endorsed both MySQL and Postgres, as did Sun Microsystems (SUNW) last November.
So Oracle has now become Microsoft, pretty much resting on its laurels and claiming that its users are more than happy with them, while all-the-while, their users are shopping for cheaper and better solutions. If SAP were to out-and-out declare they like MySQL better and shift most of their DB usage there, Oracle would have a very large amount of egg on their face.
Let's face it: when you become the dominant leader of your industry, you tend to forget what got you there and you take it for granted you will always be there. I've used Oracle, MySQL, and Sybase, and I find the latter two to be a lot easier to work with than Oracle. Oracle is trading solid dependability for tricks and gimmicks, and in the end, no one wants to pay that kind of money for things they don't need or won't use.
Open Source + the Database Vendors (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Open Source + the Database Vendors (Score:5, Informative)
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Hands on source code (Score:5, Insightful)
How many are there who would actually look at the source code of a database, work on it rather than develop new applications based on it? If database A works, then they are going to stick with database A until conditions change drastically. It hasn't happened now and doesn't seem like it will happen in the near future.
Re:Hands on source code (Score:4, Interesting)
How many are there who would actually look at the source code of a database, work on it rather than develop new applications based on it?
Let me rephrase the excerpt from the article:
"Some users would happy forego certain features present in commercial databases if (1) it means reduced cost and (2) you access to the source code."
Why stick with expensive Oracle or DB2 if PostgreSQL does the job reliably enough and it's free? That's a no brainer.
I think you're asking, "why even look at the code if it's working?". Absolutely right. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
But, if there's a feature missing that you require, then for certain businesses -- not all -- it may well make sense to add code yourself. A tech company may underutilised coders on the payroll: it may be cheaper to get them to code and support that feature than it is to sack them.
A large corporation (Sony, 3M, etc.) might need to deploy that feature in hundreds of places. Paying someone to code it gives them a lot of bang for the buck.
If database A works, then they are going to stick with database A until conditions change drastically. It hasn't happened now and doesn't seem like it will happen in the near future.
Successful businesses always look to reduce costs. If database A works, database B is $10,000 per year cheaper to license and support, the migration will cost $20,000 and you expect to continue using the system for over 2 years, then (cashflow allowing) it's a no-brainer to move. The only thing stopping you would be lack of business agility.
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Short Term Gain Is KING! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a surprise? Maybe "back in the day" innovation was a significant part of the average business plan in the United States, but those days are long gone in today's business world where short-term financial gain is the only objective. Realistically, the only innovation going on today it that which is related to military use. Sad, really.
MySQL at $40 million per year. And that's fine. (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, this is a problem for Oracle. Building Larry Ellison's house cost far more than MySQL generates in profit. I drive by the place all the time. Under construction, it looked like a mall. Oracle stock dropped from $50 to $12 while the house project was underway.
Support (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted some non-widely used software will only offer forums, chat, and lists as support options. But most major open source packages (including MySQL) does have professional level support available. Some open source companies (like MySQL and RedHat) offer commercial support themselves directly to the customer. Other packages have vibrant support communities that have sprung up around them and even companies that are quite successful offering commercial level support for several open source packages.
Saying that the reason people don't switch to open source software is because there is no support available is simply not true. It might have been true two or three years ago but not anymore. Take some time and investigate your options and you'll find there's a lot more available out there than you might think.
Re:I like my 3 CD DB downloads from oracle (Score:5, Interesting)
Hell is having a product you have to explain to the customer.
Customers don't understand databases, so they're not likely to understand the difference between MySQL and Oracle. And, ironically, that might mean MySQL is where they ought to be. This isn't to disparage MySQL at all, but I'm just saying you can't explain the difference between MySQL and Oracle, you shouldn't pay the difference.
You may or may not pay for your lack of knowledge later.
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Re:I like my 3 CD DB downloads from oracle (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Well (Score:3, Insightful)
But MySQL is a vendor DBMS if you want it to be. You can buy the product and support from MySQL.com [mysql.com].
However, even if we invent a hypothetical Open Source product where paid support isn't available, there are circumstances where I get really fed up of the "we can't use that, what if it
Sure it is (Score:5, Insightful)
Whoever you paid for your commercial MySQL [mysql.com] or PostgreSQL [postgresql.org] support contract, of course.
There are many Oracle, SQL Server and DB2 specialists on the market.
So your contention is that a high rate of turnover in the support of those applications is good?
As an early adopter of software you take on the risk while others (including competitors) learn from your mistakes.
MySQL and PostgreSQL were publically released 11 and 17 years ago, respectively. If that's your idea of "early adopter", then may I also suggest other hip new technologies you might wish to investigate, such as TCP/IP, VGA graphics, and transistor-based memory?
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