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SAP Admits to 'Inappropriate' Downloading of Oracle Code

Posted by Zonk on Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:22 PM
from the think-then-do-think-then-do dept.
Businesses Databases Oracle Programming Software The Internet Security IT
netbuzz writes "SAP's CEO Henning Kagermann uses the undoubtedly lawyered term 'inappropriate download' to describe the company's questionable actions. Henning blames a rogue business unit, but there can be no mistaking the fact that Oracle caught SAP with its hand in the IP jar on this one. The legal proceedings that will follow should prove interesting. 'The admission hurts SAP's reputation in the battle with Larry Ellison's Oracle in the $56 billion market for software that manages tasks such as payroll. The rivalry between SAP and Oracle escalated when Oracle filed its March 22 lawsuit claiming SAP workers hacked into a Web site and stole software codes on a grand scale.'"
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SAP Admits to 'Inappropriate' Downloading of Oracle Code 25 Comments More /

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  • Sound familiar? (Score:5, Funny)

    by EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:26PM (#19732047)
    I did not have inappropriate downloads with that source code!

  • Codes plural? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Random BedHead Ed (602081) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:28PM (#19732071) Homepage Journal

    and stole software codes on a grand scale

    They stoles codes? Oh noes!

    • ...software codes...
      <blink> <blink>
      (checks again)
      developers.slashdot.org
      (pounds head on desk)

      • Re:Codes plural? (Score:4, Informative)

        by IWannaBeAnAC (653701) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @04:43PM (#19735479)

        It depends on the subculture. In scientific computing and high-performance computing, it is common to refer to programs as 'codes'. This language originates from one of the original supercomputer applications, hydrocodes [afrlhorizons.com].

        If you went to the system administrator of a large computing cluster and asked "what codes are you running now?", he would immediately grok that you know what you're talking about. I wouldn't be at all surprised if big iron Oracle people used the same terminology.

  • Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shark72 (702619) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:30PM (#19732109)

    I believe that the Slashdot zeitgeist is that the word "stole" is used incorrectly here -- many Slashdotters believe that the term "to steal" should only be applied to an instance where a physical item is moved from one place to another, and should not be applied to instances of copyright infringement or unauthorized duplication -- although I presume that exceptions can be made for "theft of service," "identity theft," "you stole my thunder," "stolen kisses" and the like.

    So -- was the code really stolen?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by johnw (3725)
      It's not a question of belief - the term "theft" has a very precise definition, and it doesn't include making unauthorised copies of someone else's software or films, despite what F.A.C.T. and F.A.S.T. would want you to believe.

      That doesn't mean that copyright infringement isn't wrong or illegal - it just isn't theft.

    • Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:5, Informative)

      by bobcat7677 (561727) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:52PM (#19732403) Homepage
      Oh for pete's sake! The article writer obviously had no clue what they were talking about. No "Code" or "codes" were "stolen" or otherwise questionably acquired by SAP. Some guys in a support center used logins that weren't theirs (but they were given permission to use) to gain access to software patches and support documents that Oracle was too stingy to give them access to in the first place. They were just trying to do their job and help out customers. At worst it could be considered trespassing...but "stealing code"??? Thats really stretching the definitions of both the term "code" and the term "stealing".

      • Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Red Flayer (890720) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @01:25PM (#19732831) Journal
        SAP & Oracle both provide support for Oracle systems. So, it goes a little deeper than you would suggest, since the patches etc were then further distributed. Furthermore, the code in question went beyond the scope of the support being provided to the client.

        The issue here is that SAP used underhanded (and illegal, likely) tactics to derive an advantage over a direct competitor in the support space -- they "stole" trade secrets.

        Sure, it doesn't seem like a big deal, but remember that Oracle paid developers to write and test that code -- and SAP got an easy hand up in building similar patches / support mechanisms for what they address.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kebes (861706)
      Yes, you're quite right. This is not "theft" in any useful sense. Certainly in regards to the law, "theft" has a specific meaning. The present actions, if true, are probably illegal, but are not theft.

      Similarly, the other examples you gave: "theft of service," "identity theft," "you stole my thunder," "stolen kisses". None of those are "theft" in the legal sense (in fact half are not even illegal). Moreover, if you were trying to have a refined argument about any one of those topics, I believe most rational

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by abigor (540274)
        So what you're saying is, if I break into your house and write down the combination for your safe, I haven't stolen the combination? I think the popular use of the word "theft" would cover such a case. I've stolen the secrecy, which is the value in a secret combination.

        • Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:5, Funny)

          by kevin_conaway (585204) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @01:19PM (#19732765) Homepage

          So what you're saying is, if I break into your house and write down the combination for your safe, I haven't stolen the combination? I think the popular use of the word "theft" would cover such a case. I've stolen the secrecy, which is the value in a secret combination.

          I don't follow you. Can you try again with a car analogy?

  • Honeypot? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CastrTroy (595695) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:30PM (#19732111) Homepage
    How likely is it that Oracle left a honeypot for SAP, MS, MySQL, or any other competitor to walk into, so that they could get rid of that competitor, or at least ruin their reputation and get some money? The fact that their was code on a website accessible to the outside world seems a little suspicious to me. Who leaves code on a publicly accessible server? I think that Oracle would at least be security savvy enough not to let their code be stolen. Anyway, not to start any conspiracy theories or anything, but I just find it a little odd.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Vancorps (746090)
      This is pretty common practice with Oracle, this is why people pay good money for Metalink access. It's a very valuable tool if you have to work with Oracle products. We used it extensively to get our in-house application working flawlessly with Oracle 10g. There is tons of sample code up there. I doubt they found any actual DBMS code.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by OG (15008)
      From a quick perusal of news stories, that doesn't seem be the case. It looks like some TomorrowNow employees used credentials from their clients to access information from Oracle's website that they would not otherwise have access to. As to what the did with it...the only concrete thing I've seen so far is republishing Oracle info for some fix with the TomorrowNow logo and representing it as their own work.

  • Confused (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Reason58 (775044) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:35PM (#19732175)

    SAP workers hacked into a Web site and stole software codes
    Am I the only one confused as to why Oracle would be keeping source code on a production web server?

  • Most inappropriate use of the word "inappropriate" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Trails (629752) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:35PM (#19732183)
    Inappropriate? Inappropriate is when my boss caught me photoshopping my buddy's head onto a screen cap of the Pamela and Tommy video (It was for his bachelor party, I swear it).

    This is illegal and perhaps fradulent (ie they claimed they were customers seeking service). But what gets me the most about this is how blisteringly stupid it is. "There's no way they could know it's us! Well, there's no way, apart from the webserver logs, that they could know it's us!".

    From the article:

    Oracle said TomorrowNet used identities of Oracle customers and phony users to gain access to its systems. Customers for whom SAP allegedly conducted illegal downloads include Merck & Co. and Bear Stearns & Co., according to the March 22 lawsuit.
    So not only are they picking a legal fight with Oracle, pissing of the DOJ, and destroying their reputation, but they've basically shown they're not above pretending to be their customers. I bet the SAP CEO is turfed before the end of the next quarter.
    • None of that matters in the long run.

      FTA (emphasis mine):

      ``Although many will see the legal teams as the cavalry in this battle, the troops that really matter are the PR special forces contingent,'' Ovum Plc analyst David Mitchell said. ``PR is where this battle will be won or lost.''

      That is most certainly the case.

      And now for the snark. Wtf? PR special forces? What kind of training does that require? Going seven days without using buzzspeak or powerpoint? Writing press releases and giving presentatio

    • It's not terribly clear to me why that should be inappropriate at all. It seems their services company (TomorrowNet) would download patches from Oracle servers for Oracle customers. So if I understand this correctly, the customer (e.g. Merck) would call TomorrowNet (who they have a support contract with) and ask them to help them with some problem on their Oracle installation (which they bought and have the right to receive patches for). So now the TomorrowNet employee using Merck's login downloads the patc

  • Not Source Code (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:52PM (#19732393)
    There was no source code on the website!
    It was Technical Support documents and patches that SAP was downloading. The only "theft" here is that SAP did not have support contracts to download the patches and documents.

  • Heh (Score:4, Funny)

    by glwtta (532858) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @12:54PM (#19732431) Homepage
    "Unbreakable", my ass.

  • Summary is slanted - no "hacking" involved... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Marcika (1003625) on Tuesday July 03 2007, @01:29PM (#19732909)
    The article summary by "netbuzz" is plain flamebait. As TFA says, SAP was authorized to download materials from Oracle's Web site on behalf of customers. The SAP support people made "inappropriate downloads" of fixes and support documents without direct customer need, but they don't state anywhere that there was any hacking or any "stolen" code or "intellectual property" beyond what Oracle specifically made available for support purposes!

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