Survey Says GPLv3 Is Shunned 382
willdavid writes in to note a survey of open source developers conducted by Evans Data that indicates a real rift in the community over GPLv3. The survey was based on in-depth interviews with 380 open source developers and no estimated margin of error was given. "Just 6 percent of developers working with open-source software have adopted the new GNU General Public License version 3... Also, two-thirds say they will not adopt GPLv3 anytime in the next year, and 43 percent say they will never implement the new license. Almost twice as many would be less likely to join a project that uses GPLv3 than would be likely to join... [Evans Data's CEO said] 'Developers are confused and divided about [the restrictions GPLv3 imposes], with fairly equal numbers agreeing with the restrictions, disagreeing with them, or thinking they will be unenforceable.'"
Slow adoption is to be expected (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Slow adoption is to be expected (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Slow adoption is to be expected (Score:4, Insightful)
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My point was that all these projects can be counted as GPLv3 projects, or is it that important that I formally fork such a project to be counted in the numbers?
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-uso.
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Re:Slow adoption is to be expected (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, yes, if it is not currently licensed with the restrictions in the GPLv3 (but merely allows other people to relicense their own redistribution that way), it is inaccurate to describe it as a GPLv3 project. I mean, by your argument, every project under a GPLv3-compatible license (or, presumably, in the public domain like SQLite) should be counted as a GPLv3 project because someone could conceivably redistribute a derivative of it under the GPLv3 at some point in the future.
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Not necessarily. GPL version 3 only provisions do not apply to it, unless it is changed to be licensed under GPL 3 (only, or "or later").
One key clarification here: You can't change the license on a piece of code unless the license gives you permission to sub-license. Otherwise, only the copyright owner can change the license on a file from, say, GPLv2+ to GPLv3+. Someone else can come along and add some GPLv3+ code to the GPLv2+ file, and the result will only be distributable under GPLv3+ but this doesn't mean the original GPLv2+ code has been relicensed. If the GPLv3+ code is removed, then the result will again be distributable under
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Unless, of course, all the commits were "GPLv2 or later", in which case the project was effectively already under the GPLv3 from the moment it was released.
Re:Slow adoption is to be expected (Score:4, Informative)
If I'm the user of the code e.g. Tivo and I don't decide that I want to comply with gpl v3 I don't have to in that case. For you to force me to comply with v3 you have to relicense it as v3 (or later) it's not a retroactive license which probably wouldn't be legally enforceable anyway.
Not exactly (Score:4, Informative)
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I know that. I meant the code is released under the GPLv3 in addition to whatever other licenses apply (like the GPLv2). Of course it's still available under the GPLv2 terms, at least until someone accepts a non-GPLv2 patch (GPLv3-only / GPLv3-or-later). For that matter the historical versions will remain under (at least) the GPLv2 no matter what patches are later accepted.
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No, Section 9 says you have the option of following either version. You would have to change the license in order to have it count as GPLv3. Otherwise there would be nothing stopping me from ignoring your GPLv3 restrictions and just using the GPLv2. The GPLv2 says that derivative works much use that license (GPLv2). It also says no further restrictions so I'm not sure if you can even us
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Is there a clause in the GPLv3 that makes the "or later" mandatory? If that's the case, might as well sign it all over to the FSF or better yet just put "This software is released in whatever manner RMS decides at any time now or in the future".
Still, I wonder about the legality of enforcing a license that doesn't exist or didn't exist when you first got the source. "This software is released under a future license which we will
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Got to keep protecting the 5th freedom, which is to not give a damn.
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Re:Slow adoption is to be expected (Score:4, Informative)
Wrong. The "or later" does not mean that whatever the most recent version of the GPL has been published is the one that applies. It means someone wanting to copy / distribute / whatever the software is free to do so under the terms of the GPLv2, or any later version that they might prefer the terms of. If the GPLv4 came out next week and said "to distribute software under this license, you have to send RMS a case of beer", you could distribute "GPLv2 or later" software by either providing its source (the GPLv2/v3 option) or by sending RMS a case of beer. New versions of the GPL give you more choices in licensing "or later" code, they don't retroactively change the terms of the deal like some shady EULA.
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I know that. I meant the code is released under the GPLv3 in addition to whatever other licenses apply (like the GPLv2). Of course it's still available under the GPLv2 terms as well, at least until someone accepts a non-GPLv2 patch (GPLv3-only / GPLv3-or-later).
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I remember reading some of that somewhere.
Not quite (Score:2)
Now, this means that if you fork LedgerSMB, you can decide to use the GPL v3 for your license if you can meet the terms of that license (which by my reading would require removing any dependency on BSD-licensed code since the additional permissions cannot be meaningfully removed in accordance with section 7 of the GPL v3). This probably means a major port from PostgreSQL, or at least the stored procedures, etc.
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An important point, but if you re-read my original comment you'll notice that it does not apply to such cases, since not all the commits were GPLv2-or-later.
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However, the GPL v3 requires that certain dependencies are under the a license which allows for "relicensing" under the terms of the GPL v3 (see section 7). It is in the dependency area that you would run into trouble.
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The basic issue has to do with whether or not the BSD code can be "relicensed" (in RMS and Eben Moglen's words) as GPL code without making any changes. While it is clear that copyright-worthy changes can be under any license, the question is whether the original code licensed under the BSD license can be. IMHO (IANAL) this talk of "relicensing" seems like legal mumbo-jumbo devoid of any accepted meaning.
The problem is that the GPL 3 is only compatible with
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Not so fast. In some countries it is not possible for an artist/author to transfer or give away his copyright ownership. That may be allowed in some countries but it is not an universal thing. Free software, on the other hand, is and therefore every project must take in consideration the laws which each developer is bounded to.
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Confused... (Score:3)
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"... and you can see here a survey that proves that GPL v.3 is a bad thing, with our expertise on the subject we can provide similar quality studies on GPL 2, and even GPL 4 if you so desire"
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That one didn't seem to cost a lot. But also didn't get very usefull results.
The number of interviwed developers is a joke (at least for supporting that conclusion). There is no information about how those developers were selected (or anything else, in fact there is no usefull information at TFA).
Re:Confused... M$? (or not) (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.evansdata.com/company/clients.php [evansdata.com]
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740 Front Street, Suite 240
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
Fork (Score:2)
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Does Simon still work there?
Remember! (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't understand that perfectly.
And I'm sure I'll get modded down, but before you do that, read through my first paragraph carefully and tell me what I've said differently than the GNU people.
Re:Remember! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Remember! (Score:4, Informative)
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There may only be a few developers in the very large pool that jump right on to this license, but if those few developers put together a comprehensive tool set that is released under this license, it could attract a large number of
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Freedom can never relate to an inanimate object, such as code.
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GPL protects the freedom of the code, not the freedom of the developer. Big difference! If you want developer freedom, use the BSD license or some such. Different tools for different problems :)
Because abstract concepts deserve "freedom" but humans don't?
No, there's no such thing as "freedom" of an inanimate, incorporeal object. The only relevant factor is the freedom of the developer, which is indisputably reduced by the GPL.
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Considering that the people who choose the license are developers, and so are the people that might sign up to help the project, is it any wonder that these developers prefer to preserve their freedom?
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> GPL protects the freedom of the code, not the freedom of the developer.
Considering that the people who choose the license are developers, and so are the people that might sign up to help the project, is it any wonder that these developers prefer to preserve their freedom?
How? By overwhelmingly choosing the GPL as their license of choice? You are aware that GPL (v2) is the single most popular software license right now, aren't you?
The GP is wrong, and you're wrong, too. I won't attempt to speculate about what motivates developers to choose a particular software license, but one thing is clear: the majority of the development community doesn't prefer the BSD license, no matter what benefits it may hold for them.
Medieval Code: "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" (Score:2)
I think this "freedom of the code" idea is nonsense. Both the GPL and the BSD allow the original work to be freely available. The primary difference between the licenses is how they treat changes or additions made to the original code. BSD doesn't require new work to be licensed under it and the GPL does. No anthropomorphism is required to understand the difference, although the creation of a non-existent "moral" issue might have some propaganda value.
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You can if you want to, but you don't have to. That's freedom.
Freedom requires equality; any relationship in which one party will not allow others to do what they do, is not free.
That's what the GPL is doing. The author of the GPL code can do whatever they want with it, such as make it proprietary, but t
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Could be. Can you think of a better wording for a license that will protect the four freedoms in all situations?
all the best,
drew
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The government takes the freedoms of killing, torturing and in general harming people away (the cynical might say to monopolize them for itself, but that's another subject), but few could argue that we are less free because of that.
The whole BSD vs. GPL issue stems from different viewpoints. The BSD/total freedom camp approaches freedom from the individual viewpoint, while GPL approaches it from the side of the c
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You better hope they allow fair use as an affirmative defense then, and do not outlaw tools that enable such fair use. Because most probably "the government" will not be there when you get harmed, tortured or killed - they will only investigate after the fact.
In the same way, ign
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Your beef is with the legal system, specifically legalese. It is the way to enter into official, legally binding agreements. Without the GPL using legalese, it would be worthless for it's goals. If you want to know what the GPL is about, be sure to read the documents on FSF'
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Re:Remember! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but if you are, then please be aware that taking freedoms away to protect other freedoms is the basis of all law. You aren't free to hit me because you've had that freedom taken away from you.
Unless you are an anarchist, you really have no basis for criticising the GPL in this regard, because you agree with this logic applied to different areas.
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Unless you are an anarchist, you really have no basis for criticising the GPL in this regard, because you agree with this logic applied to different areas.
Argument by analogy is always stupid, and this is no exception. Just because you can substitute all the variables in an argument with other variables to produce a situation which is ridiculous, does not mean that the original argument with its original variables is ridiculous. You can argue against ANYTHING that way.
Re:Remember! (Score:4, Funny)
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read through my first paragraph carefully and tell me what I've said differently than the GNU people.
Nothing. You got it right. But you apparently don't understand it yourself.
Your 'first' paragraph is EXACTLY the reason, and indeed the ONLY reason murder is illegal
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Surely we can all understand the reasoning why your freedom to murder is curtailed.
The freedoms restricted by the GPL are done in precisely the same spirit - because if you exercise those freedoms the freedoms of others would be lessened.
It is precisely the same reasoning.
Re:Remember! (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Remember! (Score:5, Informative)
Oh dear! (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh dear! Another rift in the community, etc. Really, how many articles of this type have been posted to Slashdot in the last few weeks?
And the statement "Just 6 percent of developers working with open-source software have adopted the new GNU General Public License version 3" is obviously false, since the vast majority of GPL-licensed software have copyright notices that say that the software is available "under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version" - which includes GPL version 3.
What is this "Evans Data Corporation"? It would be interesting to see any other press releases they have written.
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Ooh, and here's one [softpedia.com] where they say Linux is gaining ground over Windows in certain areas...
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The whole point of Gplv3 is that the FSF and several assorted righteous nutjobs thought they would "get one over" on Microsoft. They didn't, but Groklaw and oth
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The "or later" clause only makes sense if the "or later" version is _less_ restrictive, in which case a distributor can point to that clause and the newer, less restrictive version of the GPL as a defense if accused of copyright infringement.
No, the "or later" is important regardless of whether later versions are more or less restrictive. If a piece of code is distributed under "GPL version 2 or, at your option, any later version", you can use parts of it in your own program that you distribute under GPL version 3 or later. You could not do this if the code you wanted to use was licensed under GPL version 2 only.
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"Or later" nullifies restrictions (Score:2)
I'm confused... (Score:2)
Maybe for Now... (Score:2)
By the way, anyone have more information about just who exactly the Evans Data Corporation is, and whether they are a respectable source of research? (I noticed this is a press release and not an independent article...)
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I changed my project to gpl3 on the day it came out, my software was gpl2.0 or later anyhow, and I wanted to make the cha
No Margin of Error (Score:3, Insightful)
No doubt because it wasn't a random sample in the first place, so a "margin of error", which reflects the sampling error, would be meaningless.
Fud-mongering (Score:5, Funny)
Interesting to compare this "shunning" with Vista [slashdot.org] :
Summary : GPLv3 is more popular than Vista
Vista? (Score:5, Funny)
End of the GPL monopoly? (Score:2)
GNU and Samba (Score:2)
Gee duh. (Score:2, Insightful)
Pale-faced android... and TPS reports. (Score:2)
"Yeah.... I'm going to have to ask you to stay on duty an extra shift... Oh, and if you could Make It So, that'd be great. Yeah...."
So, RMS may have found the limit (Score:2)
But does this actually mean anything? (Score:2)
43% will never use GPLv3. How does this compare to the number who will never use GPLv2 either (ie, the BSD folks)?
23% might use GPLv3, but not this year. Because there's really no reason to rush and/or the "improvement" might just not be worth the hassle of relicensing.
Using GPLv3 scares away twice as many people as it attracts. Using it instead of what? If this wasn't specified then people are probably comparing it to their "normal" license, in which case BSD people will be scared away and GPL people
SourceForge says yes (Score:2)
We might get some numbers from SourceForge:
There are currently 105950 [sourceforge.net] projects registered.
Of those, 68143 are using the GPL and 11979 are using the LGPL, for a total of 80122 projects.
The remaining 25828 use different licenses, which I am too bored to break down.
43% of 105950 projects is 45558.
If we assume that only people who currently use the GPL (and not LGPL) will consider GPLv3, then o
Soup and Gravy (Score:2)
Countersurvey (Score:2, Funny)
They are from Santa Cruz! (Score:2)
Just wait (Score:3, Funny)
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It's now the Vista of Open Source Licensing.
Re:Maybe I want my code to be used Commercially! (Score:5, Informative)
It's about preserving users' freedoms. If a commercial entity uses GPL code and distributes that to end users (even paying ones), they're obligated to give them access to the source code. It's that simple. GPLv3 just adds some extra clauses to prevent companies from weaseling around the spirit of these simple terms by using any software patents or the like.
If you don't care about commercial entities taking your code, making changes, distributing it to users, and then refusing to give those users (which may include you) access to their modified code, then release your code under the BSD license, or into the public domain. It's your choice. Stop complaining about other peoples' choices.
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Still, SAMBA!
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I wouldn't be so sure of that. A patent-holder adding patent-protected code to a GPL project just to destroy it sounds exactly like something Microsoft would do. They've done worse things in their history.
Wouldn't it be nice if every business could be run ethically? Unfortunately, not only is that impossible, but our very largest and
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It's about preserving users' freedoms.
It is not. The open-source nature of the codebase is only helpful if the user has (or is) a developer to do the required work for him. A non-programmer who has source code has no advantage at all over a closed-source product.
It is only developers who can extract the so-called "value" from open source.
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If you're small-to-medium business GrishnakhCo, and you buy software product XYZ from JunkSoft, and then proceed to use it for many business-critical tasks, like storing all your designs in it, then the company goes out of business, you're screwed. However, if you access to that source code, you can hire programmers to fix problems in the software or modify it to fit your needs.
You don't have to be a programmer, though it obviously helps. All you have to do is hire a programmer.
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You're misinterpreting the words "preventing commercial use".
What you really mean is "steal someone else's code, make a few modifications, and sell it as your own." That's basically stealing, because you've added no real value.
What I mean by "commercial use" is "a company is allowed to use GPL code and incorporate it into their own product, as long as they release the changes
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They mostly seem to be Apache zealots, judging by who won the OSS popularity contest that was part of the same survey.
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After all, how many projects still use GPL version 1?
GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 1, February 1989
GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 2, June 1991
GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 3, 29 June 2007
Mind to venture a guess how many non-FSF/GNU projects were created in the 28 months that the GPLv1 was the current license versus how many projects were created in the 16 years that the GPLv2 was the current license? Predicting the dominance of the GPLv3 based on the current usage of GPLv1 is a little disingenuous.
As for the GPLv3 being the dominate license in a few years, I've read that RMS already wants to get a GPLv4 out soon. If it's within the next 3 years, the GPLv3 will barely have time to
There's a difference (Score:3, Informative)
The thing that's new about GPL3, is that it tries to not only keep the code itself open and free, which I believe is a valid goal of a software license, but it tries to control *other* behaviors of an organization that are more marginally related to the code itself, such as patent cross-licensing agreements, etc. If a piece of software does not violate any kn
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No. (Score:3, Informative)
The one able to violate such license is the one who receives the code already under such license.