Interview with David Faure of Mandrake & KDE 195
JigSaw writes: "OSNews features an interesting interview with David Faure, the french KDE developer who works for Mandrake Software. His code can be found on Konqueror, KFM, KWord and he is also the main bug hunter for KDE. David talks about KDE 3's enhancements and speed improvements, the future of KWord, the debugging tools under Linux, and even Gnome2, .NET, MacOSX and Mozilla."
I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:3, Insightful)
(Hmm..."stagnate further"...is that an oxymoron?)
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:1)
I don't even use both. I'm a KDE man...
Telling a new Linux user to use both is just asking for trouble. I should know, I'm still a noob. I think I will be for a long time. Linux is tough, but it is a good pain.
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:1)
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:2)
I think it says a good deal about the 'usability problems' between the two desktops when users don't even realize they're using pieces from both.
This isn't a flame or anything -- I think it's the way things *should* work. Users shouldn't have to care whether their app is QT or GTK... as long as QT apps work under GNOME and GTK apps work under KDE, everybody's happy.
(Hooray for X, etc. etc.)
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:3, Insightful)
Meanwhile, I find that I use very few KDE apps on my desktop, but when I do, I'm not bothered by the different look compared to the rest of my apps. Far more important would be to get a consensus on keybindings...
/Janne
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:2)
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:3, Interesting)
While I agree competition is good I find it important, that competition, once it has produced enough "critical mass" gets joined into both environments as a base, a standard.
However, I am a little sad to see the way things seem to work:
I hope this won't get interpretated as a troll. It is just a listing of negative impressions I have and feel they sting me.
On the one side we have many "conservative" developers (which I have sometimes the feeling is especially valid for KDE folks(who do not want to change too much, instead stay with the old and enhance it, read interview, and now I am going on thin ice, since KDE has some nice innovation built inI am really into Eye-Candy myself but it is not what makes my work being done. I see there are many MANY more issues both teams should address in a joint-venture:
I want a common base !(earth shakes ;-))
Now, I, as a user and developer, do that movement, that the ballet-dancers do (and which I lack the english expression for), that moment when they have their legs completely spread apart while touching the ground. I got some training in this myself, I touch the "Desk's Top" but it hurts me often, still.
I know this ain't easy. There have been huge flame-wars, not so long ago between both teams, software-fidelity is some sort of spiritual believe...(Emacs vs. Vi, KDE vs, Gnome, Windows vs. RestOfTheWorld, etc.). A slight hope on the horizon could be the Linux Standard Base LSB [linuxbase.org]. In any case some head must be found both sides trust and we could have M$ struggle also on the desktop within four to five years. I tell you !!! :-D
Also, I am pretty sure, this all will happen sooner or later. But I find it disturbing to see not much sophisticated movement below the surface (which, in addition, would be quite easy to implement) and users wanting theme-engines and "the-looks congiguration" mainly.
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:3, Informative)
Inter Process Communication on application-scripting level.
That's what DCOP is. You can even script via shell scripts... or tie in with just about any language (C, C++, Python, etc). It uses X to communicate, and the C bindings are being rewritten (right now, although they don't require any sort of GUI, they require you to link to Qt... this dependancy is being removed).
I found no place yet neither in Gnome nor KDE to identify files by a match against certain rules...
Right click on a file, and choose "Edit File Type...". Or, if you don't have an example file, do into the Control Center, and choose "File Manager, File Associations". Or go to Settings in Konqueror, "Configure Konqueror", and you can pull up the same "File Associations" panel that is in the Control Center.
I am in need for global keyboard shortcuts.
Well, if you mean global in the environment, you can go to the Control Center/Look and Feel/Key Bindings. There are settings for Global Shortcuts (like launching an app, changing desktops, etc), Sequences (a la emacs - these are being improved for KDE3), and Application Shortcuts (Copy, Paste, Print, Save, etc.). The Application Shortcuts obviously don't apply to Gnome apps, but the rest do (including the really nice "Alt-F2 to run a command"), even when the Gnome app has focus.
I want applications to start implementing their functionality as exportable (to the scripting host) commands
That's how KDE is fundimentally built... that's what KParts is. Konqueror is not an application - it's just a KPart container... there's almost no code other than things like saving window position, etc. As different KParts are loaded (possibly in different frames) the UI (like menus and toolbars) changes. Load a video into an app, and the video play controls appear, even though the app itself knows nothing about playing a video. KOffice is an app that looks like Outlook - icons down the side for KWord, KSpread, etc. It embeds the app inside the main window.
In addition, you can even use DCOP to alter the UI in some apps like Konqueror (use bash to change your menus).
How many contact lists do you have ? I have one in KMail (is up quicker than Evo and KDE's default)
Interesting that you say that - KDE only has one contact list. All apps access it. You can even, in KMail, choose which interface you want to use for it... there are several little apps that are front ends for this universal contact list, and you can choose which one you want to use on a per app basis.
I'd imagine that Gnome has similar features - but they are different. Just as Windows and Mac have different formats for communication, scripting and binaries. The key to remember is that these two projects are building more than just an interface - they are building structured, logical tools to build applications. With KDE3, nice things like data-aware widgets and database-agnostic connections are introduced... stuff that is *hardly* "eye-candy" or "useless themeing". That's what the rush is for - to make the best platform for quick and easy development of powerful and flexable applications - because, in the end, that's all that people use.
--
Evan
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:2)
And I must return the sentiment, unfortunatly. You missed my point. Here's my summary and your response:
That's what the rush is for - to make the best platform for quick and easy development of powerful and flexable applications - because, in the end, that's all that people use.
No, quick and easy development happens on the programming level. If Linux wants to make it to the coorporate and home desktop, apart from geekism, we need all these things KDE and Gnome has, plus many of the things me and others want on the user level.
Maybe I didn't make my final point clear - applications. APPLICATIONS. That's what people use. That's the end point, and that's what I'm saying is paramount. KDE offers all the things you were talking about - it sets standards, and provides tools that very strongly encourage developers to make applications that fit those standards (by making the "right" way the easiest way).
So, the KDE project isn't about making a window manager, or a toolset - it's about making a desktop environment, complete with all the applications necessary. Cooperation is a nice word, but let me ask you this - would you rather have all the developers working forward stop and try for compatability with Windows apps, providing a united configuration for all of them (and all the different standards there), Macintosh Classic and OSX (and all the different standards there), Apple ][ (more apps than Gnome has right now), Amiga (again, more apps, and more impressive games than all of Linux has)...
Open standards is *not* an open pit you throw everything into and try to make it all "standard" by invoking some sort of diety. Open Standards are about defining with precision what you are doing, publishing it for anyone who wants to use it, and then doing it. Both KDE and Gnome have defined their standards, and are now moving forward. Sure, you can run both together, but you can run a Mac and Windows emulator on your desktop as well.
But, in the end, applications are what the users use. I have what I need for KDE, and so I use KDE. Gnome, no doubt satisfies the needs of many. Windows also seems to do the job quite nicely (with a few little nasty philosophical, moral and financial issues that drive some people away, but hey, that "one button mouse" keeps CmdrTaco from using a Mac). Mac does the job as well.
People buy computers to do things... and those things are the applications: office tools, games, communication programs. KDE provides those, and all the applications work under a very coherent set of standards. Sure, so does Gnome, but so does OSX and Windows. Why should they work together? More choice and flexability? How would homoginization of platforms provide choice and flexibility?
In the end, it's about applications. Can you do what you want? If not, at least your vision of cooperation hasn't happened, and you have a choice... and if what you want doesn't exist, you have the freedom to define a new standard that provides what you need.
But of course, then it wouldn't be the "universal standard".
--
Evan
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:1)
I use High-Performance Liquid with KDE myself. On the Gnome I found a GTK+ theme, that makes the buttons look very similare, sort of plastic buttons. I am not exactly sure what is its name (and I am in KDE now, so I can not easily test) but if you browse them all you will find it. I guess it is part of the standard distribution for Gnome (or whatever). I think it is "BlueIce".
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:1)
anyone else who find this irritating?
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:3, Interesting)
Second: I have both KDE and Gnome installed on the computers that I manage, and I allow the users to choose which to use, they always choose one based on their first 10 minutes of impression, or even based on which one I show them first. "Yeah, that's fine." They do not want to learn the workings of two window managers, one is hard enough for the "average user".
The choice that is afforded by having both Gnome and KDE is great--Depending on the work habits of the individual they'll find one of the two more comfortable and gravitate towards it. Applications work under both, so that's not really a deciding factor.
-Sara
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:1)
This year, they replaced all the HP/CDE boxen in the lab at school with Dell's running RH/Gnome. I don't do a lot of work over there, but when I do, most of the time I catch myself just opening an termenal and doing everything on the command line.
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:2)
If this is the case, why do we need any more integration?
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:5, Informative)
I expect the average Windows user would take it pretty well. Your average Windows user is used to dealing with software that has private theming/skinning support (WinAmp, Windows Media Player) and software that ignores the global theme settings and does its own thing (most CD burning software, Cable modem branded Internet Explorer, RealPlayer, QuickTime). Your average Windows user is used to Microsoft changing interface styles leaving a glaring difference between new and old apps (addition of gradient title bars (originally on MS Office only), the new XP widgets).
Many software developers feel the need to be arty and throw the standard Windows interface out the window. It's unfortunate, (It hurts usability and accessability), but it's the current situation. Windows is no better than Unix with X-Windows. The only way to get highly consistent theming in Windows is to use Microsoft applications exclusively. To get highly consistent theming under Unix, pick either Gnome or KDE and stick with it.
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:1)
I understand I will be modded down because I am not supporting the /. party line, but Windows's consistency is no better than Unix's?!? Now, come on, I hate Windows as much as the next guy, but I think someone's been spending too much time perfecting his Linus Torvalds impression here. There are two aspects of theming - visual and functional. You can change how an app looks while retaining the way it works completely. (E.g. I have three titlebar buttons, and rather than change what they do, I'll just change their color.) This is what most themeable Windows apps do.
Now, I agree that Windows is butt-ugly, but one thing it's not, as long as you stay away from buggy-as-hell out-of-date shareware pieces of arse, is inconsistent.
You stated that "to get highly consistent theming under Unix, pick either Gnome or KDE and stick with it." That's a pretty darned big limitation, isn't it? I suppose I could go write two apps that work and look the same, call them "consistent," and say I've just trumped MS. (Sorry. "M$.") Yippee me.
Alex
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:2)
And if they're complaining that not every application has the same theme, they've obviously not used Windows much. Think Quicktime and WinAmp which cannot have the Windows "theme", and Media Player and Netscape, which allow themes not available for other applications. Until Windows users start complaining to Apple for the inconsistant theme of Quicktime, I'll ignore their spurious complaints.
And talk about shallow! Not even the Sahara Ocean is that shallow!
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:2)
TheReverand is one of those kind souls whose self-appointed task is to troll for the sake of humanity. Rather than attempting to help fix Qt's semi-broken GTK-pixmap-engine-compatible style, this person would rather troll, complain, whine, all with tounge firmly in cheek. Or between cheeks. Ew.
Remember, if you want to improve the problem in the Free and Open Source world, the best thing to do is to either implement a solution, or try to help come up with a solution. Complaining (or trolling on the subject) incessantly only causes hard feelings, and dammit, I don't want hard feelings, as I find Windows to be a mostly-unusable sack of crap. Ditto for MacOS, especially OSX. And folks, I work with MacOS 9.2.2 at least 8 hours, 5 or 6 days a week.
I'd like to see interest in improving X apps' visual consistency, say, rathe than people shrugging and going back to cursing at Windows. Oh, and that whole spyware issue is just icky.
Re:I actually enjoy the competition... (Score:1)
Yes, but they already have competition: Windows and the Mac. The good thing about having more than one version of a product is that they may pursue different approaches, and in the end demonstrate that one of those approaches is superior. The bad thing is that you have a lot of essentially duplicate work. Given Miguel's desire to follow
Bad situation (Score:2)
oxymoron... (Score:1)
will be trapped in stasis?
will keeps on sucking?
TO support the work of David and others (Score:2)
Subscribe to the mandrake club.
Alot of people claim to support open source but only a few thousand seem to be putting their money where their mouth is. Theres mandrake club, theres transgaming, and plenty of other ways to fund development of open source.
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:2, Informative)
Try ROX [sourceforge.net] and something like icewm or sawfish.
and programs like abiword and gnumeric are very speedy (without having to do the M$ trick of loading it into memory when your system starts).
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:1)
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:2)
If you have an older machine, Gnome and/or KDE may be slower than Windows - but you can always use something like IceWM or Sawfish (without Gnome). Both are very fast and require little memory.
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:2)
There *is* a speed boost in KDE3 that delays loading the bookmarks until after the app is launched. For people like me (with 4000+ bookmarks), that might shave a bit of time off launch, but I don't really notice a problem.
BTW - one of the primary advances in KDE 3 and 3.1 is speeding everything up. That's about 20 days or so away.
--
Evan
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:2)
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:2)
I get very snappy performace, and I use a stock SuSE 7.3 install. The only time I've ever gotten a sudden horrific degrade in performance was when I upped my resolution to 1280x1024 with three monitors. Dropping back down to 1024x768 or turning off one of the monitors (configuration-wise, not the button on the front) fixed it. I figured that it was an ATI-Matrox thing.
Other than that, I've gotten great "feel" and response on several different machines, mostly using SuSE of late.
--
Evan
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:2)
False. I'm on a P233 with 128Megs. Windowmaker.
I always use galeon and it's fine (except for rendering huge pages). Your "mistake" is creating new windows: Galeon has tabs, which work MUCH better than windows (faster, don't clutter the desktop as much). Opening new windows stresses a lot more stuff than necessary....
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:2)
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:2)
Re:linux on the desktop is too slow (Score:1)
he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:4, Interesting)
Anytime I have to sit here and seriously think about what I have to install just is not right.
An additional complaint is that my HP960c still prints color like all-hell. I have to print over the network from my Win98 laptop if I really want to print some sort of color page if I want it to look at all like it should.
printtool worked wonders for my HP400 but not for this printer. Old printers aren't around anymore. We need some real support for some real printers
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
using debian the setup is extreamly simple too
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:3, Interesting)
print to the printer in color using Windows, then print again using Linux. Tell me what you see.
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
what driver are you using?
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:2)
Info HP Deskjet 960c
Location
DeviceURI parallel:/dev/lp0
State Idle
Accepting Yes
JobSheets none none
QuotaPeriod 0
PageLimit 0
KLimit 0
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
You should frequent hpinkjet.sourceforge.net to get the latest drivers supplied by HP. These usually are not provided by distros because of licensing issues.
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
just use CUPS, cupsomatic from linux-print and the hpijs driver from on sourceforge (from HP) my HP 960c prints very, very, very well. using debian the setup is extreamly simple too
I've tried using the same setup tools you describe but I can't get my deskjet 932C to print! I suspect that it has something to do with it being a usb printer. I agree that this is definitely an area of linux that needs improvement for newbies like me.Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
You did not mention the version of Linux you are using. The latter did not help me with RedHat 7.1 kept saying there was a setup error. So instead we threw on a quick installation over the former's partitions using Mandrake 8.1 and the same settings worked.
While KWord was quite nice even had a color Header for my company's name the print out was useless. Switched to StarOffice 5.2 for very nice output albeit in b&w.
Should tell you too that this set of experiences were with an Epson 880, which may make my suggestions useless. HP seems to be moving towards more openness to Linux and I would expect an increased level of support for those developing printer drivers.
Do not be too put off by some of the jerks that respond to honest pleas for information. Some are just conceded
You cannot believe how far Linux has progressed in a very short period of time; if necessary use both Windows and Linux until you can leave the former behind.
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:3, Interesting)
Just about every Epson is supported very well with the gimp-print CUPS drivers. This is because Epson printers are not stupid win-printers, like many of the new HP's, and because the Epson printer language is quite well documented and understood.
So, real printers are supported. Terrible printers aren't.
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1, Interesting)
We need some real support for some real printers.
This statement is true, since the only real printers to me, are the ones that I own. HP, not Epson.
So, real printers are supported. Terrible printers aren't.
Calling HP Printers terrible is plain stupid, elitist, and damaging to the progress of Open Source. People like you are the reason that Linux advocates are seen as belligerant pompous assholes. The claim that the print support in Linux sucks is true until HP printers are supported. I don't care if the HP print language is obfuscated assembler. I care that Linux can't print.
Andrew
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree. Calling bad hardware "terrible" is neither stupid, elitist, or particularly damanging to Open Source (though this is more of a linux issue than a general Open Source issue). Here's why: supporting every single piece of hardware takes time. Most of this time is given freely by volunteers although some is supported by commercial distributions. Every piece of hardware someone chooses to support results in other hardware they don't support. If the hardware in question is poorly designed, has a bad interface, poor documentation, or some completely braindead feature like being a WinPrinter, then that hardware is going to probably take more time than it deserves.
This is hardly elitest or stupid or damaing to Open Source - this is reality. We don't have infinite resources. If you want to help with printers in particular, donate your time, or buy a distribution that is working on the problem.
This is of course a selfish and wrong way of looking at linux (see above). Hardware companies that can't be bothered to make it easy on people voluntarily writing device drivers for linux will suffer by having their hardware poorly supported. People who buy said hardware are better off buying hardware know to be supported by linux or using another operating system (unless they want to help). Also, for every operating system out there, there is some hardware not supported. Therefore, by your argument, all operating systems suck.
QED.
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:2, Interesting)
Then it is an unfortunate one. One that will keep linux off of the desktop.
My anger stems from the fact that the grand parent of my original post stated that 'we need better support for hardware' a truism. He was flamed by jonathan_ingram who said (paraphrasing here) "your printer is terrible, buy a new printer, no one cares about your stupid HP printer, not linux, not me, not open source." (Okay, so that was a fairly liberal paraphrasing, but you get my point). The subtext of his statement (which I more or less fleshed out) IS elitist, stupid, and damaging.
This is of course a selfish and wrong way of looking at linux.
My statement may have been selfish, but it is was not wrong. For the user with the HP printer, Linux does indeed suck. My argument was not that "an operating system that does not support all hardware sucks," it was that the community that supports linux can be an arrogant one, and that the post I was replying to was not helping anyone and in fact, reflected poorly on the perceived attitudes of the Linux userbase. If Linux is unable to live up to the expectations of the average user (such as something simple like PRINTING) then to that user, Linux Sucks. Linux is unable to live up to the expectations of the user with the HP printer, therefore Linux Sucks (for that user). Windows works. It's a bitter pill.
Andrew
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:2)
FWIW, My HP DeskJet 895cse (both of 'em - I own two) print beautifully with KDE/CUPS. I've had no problem getting them to work, nor an HPLJ4. Just pick from a menu and print.
Incidently, Microsoft has an even *worse* problem with printing to HP printers. I don't think they've ever made a driver for any HP printer for Windows. Luckily, HP provides drivers for them, and MS thoughtfully places them on the Windows disc. Now, if only HP would do the same for Linux.
Just how many drivers *does* Microsoft actually write?
--
Evan
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
All I can say is:
Linux is ready for the desktop! Linux is ready for the desktop!
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
gs -sDEVICE=laserjet
works just fine for my Laserjet 6L, although I have to play with the margins a bit to get it just right.
Perhaps this discussion is about the ink jet printers?
semi off-topic question (Score:2)
I recently set up a epson stylus c60 for my g/f. It works great, but... She is on redhat 7.2, and I used printtool with the latest packages from the redhat site to configure everything.
It looks like when I print plaintext, the printer does a great job, printing using the black cartridge and doing it very fast.
For ANYTHING postscript (ie, web pages from mozilla, or text from abiword), the printer makes black by mixing color, even if there is NO COLOR on the page (hell, even if there is, if the text is black, print it with black ink, dammit!!! (it did this with the redhat postscript test page too). Is there a way around this stupid behavior short of creating a 'black-only' print queue?? Never mind that solution too, since many times I want color, but I want anything black to print using BLACK!
I am using the stp driver for the Stylus 760, since there wasn't a C60 specific driver listed. Would switching over to cups solve my problem? Is there a way to get this working with the current LPRng supplied with redhat?
Re:semi off-topic question (Score:1)
Use the RedHat printconfig to set up two printers lp_bnw and lp_color, but both point to the same physical printer and both use the same driver.
However, set the driver settings so that one always uses black and white and the other always uses color.
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
This is why Linux is never, ever going to reach the level of popularity it deserves. As long as the Linux community and its developers continue to shrug and say, "Hey.. it's not the kind of [hardware goes here] that I like, so it deserves to not be supported" it's never going to get anywhere. How is Linux supposed to advance when the attitude is "Well, it was designed for Windows so we give up"? Newsflash: If you want to get anywhere with the Windows crowd you need to support their hardware, whether it's bad or not. If people wanted to go out and buy a whole new computer so they could use a different operating system they might as well buy an (egh) Mac.
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
The printing for the HP 600 series on is so bad I switch to my gaming Windows partition to print. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for printer support.
Max
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
I've poured hours upon hours into trying to make KDE/OpenOffice print to our Solaris-Samba printserver, which supports BOTH lpd and samba queues, and it hasn't worked since I installed Mandrake 8.1. Period. The GUI tool is nice, makes nice test pages, but no printing.
CUPS is a great idea, and is coming along well, but it needs a lot more work before anyone can say that *nix has proper printing. This straw will break the camel's back if it stays there.
Sigh, time to reboot into Windows to print...
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:2)
I'd rather not have to use my browser to configure it, or have it opening ports without saying so explicitly during the "make install", but I've had absolutely no problem with it. It's got no Brother driver, I just print it to a raw queue, and the Solaris print server farms the job out to the printer. As Plug'n'play as plug'n'play can be.
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
Printing from WordPerfect Office 2000 and Mozilla, on the other hand, works without a hitch, is very fast, and looks great.
Anyone else have experience with this kind of print problem and KDE? It's my one major complaint about KDE2... in every other way, it's great!
Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS (Score:1)
Just nit picking but Lincon didn't say that. Samuel Johnson did.
how come (Score:1, Interesting)
KDE 3: The Windows Killer
Re:how come (Score:1)
other interviews (Score:3, Informative)
New Features (Score:1)
Heheh, screw functionality and "the greatly improved Javascript and DHTML support in Konqueror". What users REALLY want is translucent window backgrounds [kde.org].
Seriously though, it does look might sweet.
Re:New Features (Score:2)
They already have it. You're screen shot shows a transparent konsole. That's been around since 2.0.
Re:New Features (Score:1)
Is that true alpha-blended, updates-as-you-solid-drag-it-around transparency? Just a question. If it is, good job - if it's not, OS X has you beat.
Alex
Re:New Features (Score:2)
Re:New Features (Score:2)
Re:New Features (Score:2)
Re:New Features (Score:2)
I never said you couldn't like the features of OSX. It's a great system with a lot of nice features. However, you are still bound and gagged by Apple. Want to run Aqua on non-Apple hardware? Not a chance in hell, as useful as this would be. Want to learn about how their features are coded so that you can gain understanding from them in an academic sense? No chance. Want to help speed up OSX (yes, the speed problems are in aqua) just to show all those naysayers on slashdot how fast it really can be? No chance.
And as for cookies, you can enjoy them the same way you can enjoy OSX, but if you wanted to actually do something with the cookies, you probably couldn't without the recipe. You could certaintly get another cookie recipe, which makes your example rather stupid, but for the sake of argument I'll assume that Nieman-Marcus is the only one that makes this particular kind of cookie... hell, we can even call it an AquaCookie if you'd like. Now, what do you do when Nieman-Marcus decides to stop making aqua cookies with Chocolate chips, which are your favorite kind? How about if start using peanut oil to make them, and you're allergic? You can't do much of anything without the recipe. Now, since this is the real world with a billion cookie-suppliers, you could simply go somewhere else. But this is the computer world that you're trying to make a point about, and in this world you simply don't have that kind of freedom. You have Apple, Microsoft, and UNIX. That's it.
So you can throw your sad little references to arguments I never made, and you can come up with your pithy little analogies, but the sad fact is that you, as an OSX user, are completely under Apple's thumb if you choose to stick with their OS. I am not. I am free to do as I choose, while you are a slave. A well treated slave, with plush couches and wonderful music... but a slave nevertheless. I hope you enjoy it, but I'm not running back to Apple no matter how slick their cage may be. It's not about information wanting to be free at all. It's about me wanting to be free, which is something you may never understand.
Re:New Features (Score:1)
My bad.
this is true (Score:3, Insightful)
This is very true. People talk about Linux 'taking over the desktop' which is good, but there is much more immediate niches to fill in other areas. They are good spot for Linux because the people doing that need a complete system, but don't need it to work with every other computer out there, and aren't worried about being able to buy the latest games etc. Printing is another one which he didn't mention but someone here did. Linux needs a better print system, and whoever is in a position to do it could probably even take a look at MacOS X for some very good ideas. 3D is getting the royal treatment and is a very good place for linux right now with XFS, ReiserFS, PRman, BMRT, Mental Ray, Maya, Shake, Softimage XSI 2.0, Houdini, and all sorts of high end graphics stuff, no 3D production studio is locked into windows or SGI anymore. Video and audio on the other hand, really need work. The video toaster ran on an Amiga for fucks sake, that should be proof that ultimate compatibility isn't needed and a self reliant system can do the job well. This is where I really see Linux taking off, is with distributions specifically made for different niches. They could come with all the libraries needed for the different programs you might run, and of course have all the free ones already installed. It will take a few startups to do something like this, however, and startups aren't in a good position right now.
Re:this is true (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a good point; the appeal of Linux is ultimately the ease by which it can be tailored to different audiences. This is not to say that the audience should do the tailoring, but that an interested party *could* do it. For example, I'm still looking for a distribution tailored to the needs of a student. I.e., one containing a bunch of necessary mathematics and beginning programming applications, good mp3 and DVD support, ability to talk with Macs and Windows with equal ease, good word processing tools with automatic formatting of documents for English 101, etc.. All these packages already exist, but no one actually puts them together as an integrated solution. As a result you have students trying out Linux, but having to boot back into Winders to do their research paper in a pirated copy of Word.
Get a Mac (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:this is true (Score:2)
Re:this is true (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:this is true (Score:2, Informative)
Mr. Faure seems to ignore the competition a bit. (Score:3, Interesting)
From what I've seen - I admit I haven't looked very much into the API though
About GNOME 2 and GTK+ 2:
I am sorry to say that I haven't had a look at either of those.
IMHO this is not necessarily a bad thing. Designing software from a "fresh" perspective allows for innovation and truly creative ideas. However, I think the time has come for KDE and GNOME to cooperate. It was a brilliant idea having two competing desktops, but unfortunately today we are stuck with two desktops (if you don't count the other windowmanagers and wannabes) where half of the apps work on one and their counterparts are broken on the other.
A common ground would go a heck of a long way into solidifying the toehold Linux has in the desktop market. Actually, if Gnome and KDE merges somehow (where the best of each survives) we might not get stuck in a world where equivalent apps have complementary bugs.
Yes, yes, I know that KDE apps run in Gnome and vice versa, but the best browser for Linux (Mozilla, all the way!) is based on a different model entirely.
I hope the next hackers set upon Gnome and/or KDE are given the task of interoperability in stead of writing another "equivalent" app.
Urg. Tired of ranting. must go sleep now.
Re:Mr. Faure seems to ignore the competition a bit (Score:2)
The first part would be the hardest, because these people (for the most part) are doing this for fun, and will not listen to someone who tells them to go work on another project or change the way they work.
All these arguments are trying to prevent people from doing thing themselves, and they just target KDE and GNOME because they are the largest projects. I think what you are saying is that there should only be one popular desktop environment, which sounds bad enough when you aren't trying to change how people give away their work.
If you want interoperability, how is this failing right now? I (with Mandrake 8.1) can run KDE apps in GNOME and GNOME apps in KDE - where is the lack of interoperability here? Of course, GTK/Sawfish themes will always look different than Mosfet's Liquid style, but there's nothing to prevent me from running what I want where I want. This actually reduces the choice for programmers: they can choose the KDE objects of the GTK api based on what they like, and it will run fine.
The problem with having two toolkits (Score:2)
They rather write a html administration tool, and this is not allways the best option.
If the kde is going to keep breaking ground, they should start thinking about writing kde/qt configuration tools for XFree, samba, cups, networking, fstab, nfs, maybe apache, sendmail, etc. Basically all the tools that come now from the distros but are different for each of them.
Something like a linuxconf front end. This toguether with LSB, could give us an easy to administer system.
Also, They could write a xml DTD for configuration files, where the configuration gui is generated automatically from the configuration file. This would unify the mess we are in with all different configuration file formats.
More info on Faure... (Score:2, Informative)
Thanks for the work! (Score:5, Insightful)
To be frank, I'm not really a "visionary". I have recently realized that all the major changes in KDE which I took part in, were all initiated by someone else, I simply joined in and offered my help, usually doing quite an important share of the work.
Thank you! We don't need more visionaries. Anyone can be visionary. I'm a visionary, and I have a lot of ideas. We don't really need more though. We need someone with the dedication to get the work done. Once the current vision is achived we need the next one. (actually we need some overlap there)
Remember, anyone can have an idea. good ideas are rare. Someone willing to do the work to make an idea reality is not common. So for those who get the work done: Thank you.
-1 Tongue in the Ass (Score:2, Funny)
Artists and KParts (Score:2, Interesting)
Development Tools (Score:2, Interesting)
For my main job, I development mostly Windows applications. In this environment, I have a number of high-quality tools at my disposal for development/debugging/testing.
For development, Visual Studio is a very nice environment. In fact, Kdevelop (which is also a very nice program) emulates VS's IDE quite clearly.
For debugging, there are also great tools. For low-level (ring 0) applications, there is SoftICE. For user-mode applications, there is BoundsChecker (which, among other things, can validate API parameters at runtime, detect and locate memory leaks, warn about buffer overflows, etc).
For testing, there are also a number of good tools. AutomatedQA mixed with a few tailor-made programs can provide a complete and quick testing environment.
In the interview, he mentions the "printf" and "cout" method of debugging. While this is useful to some degree, there is nothing more satisfying than clicking a "memory-leak detected" indicator, and having a program jump you to the exact line that created the leak.
It has been some time since I have done any development in Linux, and maybe I just haven't had the fortune of seeing development tools that match those created for the M$ OSes, but it seems to me that this is one area that could still use a little work before more programmers jump onto the Linux bandwagon.
Re:Development Tools (Score:2)
The "cout" method of debugging is close to worthless, IMO. I find gdb to be much more useful. Linux does have tools that deal with bounds errors and memory leaks. For example, electric fence is a popular bounds checker. There are also commercial tools available, like Purify.
Re: memory leak detection, there are numerous ways to do this in C++. One can use audit trails, and/or overload operator new. I've used both of these techniques, and I've never run into trouble with memory leaks.
Cheers,
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:3, Informative)
if you can, PLEASE edit OUT the copy/paste you did on Slashdot of the OSNews article. The bandwidth problems we have is mostly when we have MANY and BIG images on our articles, NOT on articles like this. Please edit out our article from the Slashdot forum. It is a violation of our copyright. You should have asked us first...
Thank you,
Eugenia
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:1)
Kind of funny that you have an account here but didn't know that.
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:1)
It's funny. Laugh.
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:2)
I'm sorry, but there's just a fine line here. If half the people out there can't read the article because it's Slashdotted, how can you benefit? Would you rather Slashdot not link you at all?
I don't know how many times I've had to read an article from a post because the site gets railed. Frankly, I'm glad there are people like Mr. Quick out there - otherwise I'd miss half the articles on this site.
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:3, Interesting)
Indeed.
>If half the people out there can't read the article because it's Slashdotted.
This is the fine line. OSNews is *NOT* Slashdotted. Slashdot has linked us over *25 times* the last few months, and we were never down because of it. We are always prepared for Slashdot. We have the bandwidth needed for Slashdot's links and we delivered accordingly.
Each time I put a bigger article online, I calculate what we can handle and what not. If our bandwidth can't handle something, I just do not put it online, or I use one of our 4 mirrors (OSNews uses some mirrors for some of its images).
So, your excuse does not hold. At least in this case.
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:3, Interesting)
This is the fine line. OSNews is *NOT* Slashdotted.
I used the link. It worked. I read the article on your site. I wouldn't even know OSNews.com existed if it weren't for Slashdot.
If a site is down, I *immediately* check the posts to see if there's a copy there, which I then read. This is probably what most people do.
If a site *IS* Slashdotted, only a few thousand people have it in their cache to post before its gone for 10-12 hours or more. He thought you wouldn't have the capacity, so he posted it WITH FULL CREDIT. Unlike most rubes who are probably just karma whoring, he actually had a reasonable reason - even though he was wrong.
I'm defending him because I often use posted articles - because I don't have some "Slashdot was just updated with an article!" indicator. I can't beat those people - by the time I check out a site sometimes, it's down. But I only check the posted version of an article if the original is down. If the site doesn't go down, the post is usually modded down and disappears.
The truth of the matter is that Slashdot is a forum where anything goes for as long as Slashdot exists. The DeCSS code is here, along with other copyrighted materials. If you don't want to be linked on Slashdot (and most likely have your article copied by anyone, even though it is illegal), then tell the maintainers and I'm sure they won't link you
There's always going to be someone that will post your story to Slashdot. People can post anything to Slashdot. It's a crime and it sucks, but it's the truth - and it's permanent.
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:2)
And the moral thing to do is to respect the wishes of the author. End of story. There is no "technical out", "legal arguement" or "that's life" to it.
If you want to behave in an immoral fashion, go ahead - you'll likely get away with it throughout your life. But don't try to justify... a quick "fuck you" to the author is more polite by simply being more concise, and states your position to all those around you.
--
Evan
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:2)
I think you misread my post - go read it again. It was less of a "fuck you" and more like a "that's life on the Internet".
If you don't like the game, don't play it. I love the people and businesses that start using an open medium and then try to close it up and wonder why people won't accept it. *I'm* going to accept an author's wishes, but a heck of a lot of other people aren't simply because the Internet does not enforce such behaviour. I am not justifying their behaviour, I'm explaining WHY it exists.
OSNews.com could format their news in a dead-tree magazine and probably not have to worry as much about people stealing, because it's more time-consuming than just making a digital copy and it reaches less people, so it's not worth it. Web sites have to understand that while they have a legal right to their content, the morals of Internet users (and the rules of the sites people read, like Slashdot) aren't forced to coincide with legal rules. If they did, the Internet (and the sites it contains) would likely be less popular.
People like the Internet as a free medium. Don't be surprised when there's a backlash against anything that tries to take away that freedom.
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:2)
In the end, we're all free to do whatever we want - we just pay the penalties. That runs the gamut from murder to posting an article on Slashdot (yes, I said "runs the gamut", I'm not making a comparison). In things like ignoring authors wishes, it's unlikely that anybody will ever suffer legal action except in the rarest of cases. But the penalty is that if and when you author something, you've contributed to a culture that dosen't give a damn about your wishes.
Respect is lacking on the internet now. Has been for a little over a decade (interestingly, about the same time that Spam and commercial intrests have been in here).
People like the Internet as a free medium. Don't be surprised when there's a backlash against anything that tries to take away that freedom.
A freedom does not have to be used in all cases. Freedom of speech is an utterly vital concept, but the simple act of being polite and the property of respect seems to be getting lost in the rabid defense of "Information must be free".
--
Evan
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:2)
I don't think it's any co-incidence that commercial interest in the Internet sparked lack of respect. Like I said before, content makers were trying to make an insecure system secure, and only ended up alienating an audience that liked the "free exchange of information on the the Internet" idea.
So people disrespected companies who were new guys coming along and saying "ok, this is how the game is going to be played on the Internet now because we want to make money". No wonder people don't respect them - the companies haven't earned it if they act like that.
As the Internet flooded with more people, we (humanity) lost focus as to the purpose of the 'Net: an information source, not a commercial venue where you can buy ideal real estate in a domain name and sell books at close to cost price.
Of course, we have to justify the expense of all of this architecture. Governments and companies would not invest so heavily in the Internet if it was merely a free-for-all and had no commercial value. And we too take the good for the bad here: improvement in the network in exchange for pop-up, pop-under and pop-to-the-side ads and sites that require registration, more strict enforcement of copyrights (like, I can't copy you even if I do give credit).
But it would be nice if all of these commercial guys kept that in perspective when they use the Net to make money (or even to break even). There were always be a small population that will resist - if only because they can - to subtly spread freedom about the land. Robin Hoods of the Net, if you will.
I will not participate, but I agree with many of their points - and only wished there was a more constructive way to "fight back" against the commercialization of the Internet.
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:2)
It's like celebrities bitching about being famous and not having any privacy. You take the good attention with the bad attention.
I'm not justifying the copying, I'm saying that when attention comes, not everything is good and merry. Sometimes people take your article because they want to read it - especially those in the "everything on the 'Net is free" mindset. This happens to the big boys too and you hardly see them posting to Slashdot, discouraged.
Most people use the site link. I did. Big deal if the article is posted, who the heck browses at 0?? Am I the only one here who actually trusts moderators to do a good job?
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:1)
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:2)
read this...
Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... (Score:1)
i did give credit though...
Well obviously the KDE developers don't think so (Score:1)
Re:Bad use of the word hack (Score:1)