Eclipse 2.1 Released

insomnia writes "Eclipse 2.1 has been unleashed to the world today. Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE environnement and I highly recommend it; developing under your favorite text editor feels like comparing Eclipse to the dinosaur age - I can't live without refactoring now. You can see what's new in this release here."

GTK plugin

[Salsaman]

Is the GTK plugin any easier to install yet ? Last time I checked, you had to jump through a number of hoops to get it installed.

It would be great if it were included as a default plugin.

Re:Eclipse, Java ...

[Soko]

Seems plausible.

I saw nary a Sun logo on the eclipse.org [eclipse.org] page of consortium members.

With IBM, HP(Compaq) and several other *nix vendors - as well a several application vendors that drive Sun harware sales - in the consortium, you'd figure they'd be in from the get-go.

IMHO, this just goes to show that Sun doesn't truly get what OSS is yet (Open Office [openoffice.org] being the exception to the rule), and what it could do for them. If they would release Java as a true open standard, they'd end up looking like the proverbial cat in the bird cage.

Soko

Re:GTK plugin

[burner]

GTK plugin? I'm confused. I use the GTK2 version of eclipse daily (and have since some time last spring). To what GTK plugin are your referring?

Re:Finally!!!

[Malcontent]

How is it when not doing java?
I use Jedit right now for almost all my writing and programming. It's great for XML/XSL, perl, python, PHP and it even has some odball plug ins like memento which is a small PIM and code2HTML which I use way more then I ever thought I would.

Is Eclipse as good as Jedit? Better? I love jedit but I'll switch if it's better.

Re:Java

[Baki]

The bank where I work (30000 employees) uses only mainframe (PL/1) and Java. Gradually mainframe functions are moved to very large (partitioned) Sun servers running solely Java software and Oracle databases.

All business logic for this large enterprise is being developed (or redeveloped) into Java. This has been going on for 3-4 years, and has already proven itself very much.

For "enterprises" the fact that you need 50% more RAM and 20% more CPU compared to C++ is insignificant. UNIX hardware is very cheap compared to mainframes, and especially compared to people. If you get better code that is easier to develop and maintain, it is by far worth it. Also Java offers lots of rich standard API's (in J2EE) that "everyone" uses, avoiding difficult choices and gambles if you base your software on the 'correct' standards.

Since banks often rely on 3rd party software/components (e.g. that implement some reporting according to international banking standards) and all vendors offer components that fit into the std. Java frameworks, there is hardly another option.

Re:Java

[graveyhead]

Your c++ page certainly shows a certain maturity about you. Bjarne was right on with his response to your email.

I have to agree with this. It seriously must be a troll, but whatever I can't let that stand.

It is unbelievable how rude some people are. I read this guy MillionthMonkey (240664)'s fscking page thinking I might get a well-reasoned report on why, exactly, C++ sucks, possibly similar to the XML sucks article /. posted a few days ago by Tim Bray. Instead what I get is the rantings of a kid barely (if at all) out of college who is complaining more about problems with his school than with the actual limitations of the C++ language. I would have even been willing to put up with "feature X in Java is a great replacement for feature Y in C++ because [insert plausable reasoning here].

It is simply un-fricking-believable that this goddamned script-kiddie can have such disregard for nearly 20 years of computer science, and a language that is virtually ubiquitous. Hey Monkey, if you can't learn C++ (I learned it on my own no teacher required, it's not all THAT hard) I suggest you give up the profession for something a little less stressful. Shoveling shit is nice and doesn't make you do that really hard thing... you know, using that brain.

I cry for the future of my profession :(

Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs!

[nilsjuergens]

> You can have a better IDE [gnu.org.] doing refactoring [xref-tech.com.] as well.

You cant really compare that - Xrefactory isn't even free-as-in-beer.

XEmacs sure is nice, but neither its code completion support (filling in whole method names while you type) nor its support for refactoring come anywhere near Eclipse. And don't let me get started about "Quick Fix".

Actually i would be delighted if anyone could show i'm wrong and tell me how to do it - XEmacs really has a steep learning curve (imho).

Re:Eclipse vs. Idea

[oz_ko]

I haven't used Idea yet though I don't think they will be able to keep up with free and open source.

The new features planned for version 2.2 [eclipse.org]will surely blow them out of the water.

I think IBM have done a fantastic job to date and I hope it keeps up.

Re:Java

[Midnight Thunder]

Another advantage is when your company gets bought out and the hardware politics change. The company I work for develops large scale server solutions for transactions (I won't mention the industry). Up to now we have been running on Sun machines. The new parent companies now insists that all servers be Intel based. They originally mandated the OS should be MS-Windows, but they ended up accepting Linux. Having already had to bang my head in the past porting C/C++ code from one Unix to another, moving the Java code was a godsend in ease.

As I once said to someone else, porting code is hard work and expensive. In relative terms upgrading the hardware to the best out there without caring for your porting issues is very cheap. Not only that but you also minimize downtime.

Use what you want and understand everyone else's reason for using what they want.

Re:Finally!!!

[j3110]

The new version of eclipse (2.1) does a better job than 2.0.*. Or at least the latest stable RC builds are :)

Comparing jEdit to Eclipse is difficult though. jEdit has so many friggen plugins it's almost detrimental :) jEdit takes longer to load because of this. Eclipse has much better ANT integration in this release as well. So you can do XSLT on just the XML that changes with ANT. You'll have to rely on yet more plugins to Eclipse to get any language other than XML, ANT's xml, HTML, and other Java related file formats. I don't think it supports JSP out of the box, but I could be wrong.

CVS support is slightly better in this release as well.

The actual Java editor has reduced my keystrokes for symbols by a factor of 1.8 or so :) When you open anything {,(,",' it will automatically make the closing tag where you would expect as well as try to keep you on the right tabbing. All this is configurable by the default coding style settings under Windows->Preferences.

Eclipse is a wonderful IDE in it's own right, but I wouldn't through away a good editor as well. You may find yourself only using jEdit for things not supported by Eclipse, since Eclipse is the easiest to use between the two.

Basically, my suggestion to people in your class is give Eclipse a good few days of work. Let it manage your classes for a while. Once you have a lot of classes, you absolutely can't live without the refactoring support. You can tell Eclipse to rename a class, and every class it has control of that uses that class will be changed to use the new class name.

Eclipse is by far the best IDE I've seen in a long time. The Netbeans people are working hard to catch up. They are making leaps of progress on their performance issues. I think before long we'll have some competition in the Open Source Java editor market.

For those of you who don't know why SUN isn't working with the Eclipse people, it's because they are working with the NetBeans people. It's an Open Source editor that rivals with Eclipse. Eclipse is part of IBM's WebSphere product as well, so IBM has a very real reason to want their editor to be the best. If SUN helped out the Eclipse project, they would be playing favorites pretty much.

Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs!

[idontgno]

Amen, Brother, preach it!

If I want "a sea in which a gnat may drink and an elephant may bathe," I'll play chess. And a monolithic tool that needs a 2,560-page manual and a 17-week qualification period is no fun. Give me robust but lithe and agile tools that I can string together with a minimum of grunting and get out of my way!.

Years (decades?) ago, I was one of the fringe-warriors in the various editor holy wars [elsewhere.org], but as I grew older and wiser I realized it had less to do with the tool and more to do with the craftsman. Now, I prefer to craft my code myself, not let an IDE do too much for me. (How much is too much? "I can't define it but I know it when I see it" [Quoting Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's comment on obscenity.] As soon as the tool spends less time helping me and more time being in my way, it's out of here.

Re:Eclipse Does Swing!

[Anonymous Coward]

Eclipse imposes nothing on you. [Editor: Insert MS-bashing joke here.]

You may write AWT or Swing or SWT or text. You can use earlier JDKs (maybe down to 1.2?). You can target what you want. You can develop with 1.4 and run as 1.3. You can have multiple workspaces (nice feature). Version control is really easy just awesome (I am continuously amazed at how may professionals do not 'like' version control).

You want another language in the IDE? Go pick it up.

Ok, ok, I was gushing, but it is worth your time to try it out.

Educational Tool

[Troy]

One aspect of development tools in general that hasn't been discussed as much is the education value. In teaching programming, I don't want to become too bogged down in the tools and the equipment I use. Every class period I spend fixing Windows problems or getting the environment to work is a wasted period, because it is one less period I spend teaching the language.

Don't get me wrong, dealing with your "tools" is a part of programming and programmers need to learn these things. However, for an entry level C++ or Java programming course, I would rather spend a week at the end of the semester teaching some interesting language concept than spend a week at the beginning of the semester teaching the environment (which will inevitably change).

Beyond that, I want students to be able to use these tools at home. The automatically makes me prefer an IDE over a string of tools, because that everything I have to do to get the environment to work is what I have to write in a descriptive help file. Beyond that, students (of varying levels of maturity and motivation) have to follow this help file.

The things that I really like about Eclipse (as a teacher) are:

1) The simple setup/install -- Install the JRE and expand the eclipse.zip file and you're basically good to go. When I send burned CDs home, this minimizes the number of students who mess up the install because they missed an instruction. Students who do have problems end up having significant ones that I have to fix via VNC.

2) Focus on the language -- Eclipse does so many things for you that it really allows you to focus on your programming, rather than the host of tangential things related to programming. Granted, sometimes I think Eclipse does a little too much for you....for instance, creating class and method headers in new files prevent students from knowing how to write it .

3) Projects and CVS -- Oh God do I love how Eclipse does projects and CVS. The projects FORCE students to be organized, rather than throwing all of their files into one file. CVS' is so well integrated that students get all of the benefits of using CVS without having to jump through 15 hoops. Once again, there is an educationl benefit to learning how to jump through hoops, but that I have 67 hours a semester with these kids and I would rather focus on the language than the environment.

-Troy