Mozilla 1.7 Beta Is Faster And Smaller 738
ccady writes "Mozilla 1.7 beta is out. Not too many new features, but "Mozilla 1.7 size and performance have improved dramatically with this release. When compared to Mozilla 1.6, Mozilla 1.7 Beta is 7% faster at startup, is 8% faster at window open time, has 9% faster pageloading times, and is 5% smaller in binary size." I'll be downloading it."
MNG? (Score:1, Interesting)
5%? (Score:1, Interesting)
"Mozilla's binary size has been decreased almost 2% since Mozilla 1.6."
Is the binary size in the summary from a different version?
One thing that I'd like to see mozilla mail do, is have the address book open, like in thunderbird. I don't even use the address book in mozilla since it's such a pain. Am I just missing something?
Re:Mozilla 1.6 (Score:-1, Interesting)
Browser of choice?
MSIE [calcgames.org]
Mozilla [calcgames.org]
Opera [calcgames.org]
Netscape [calcgames.org]
Konqueror [calcgames.org]
Galeon [calcgames.org]
DA [calcgames.org]
curl [calcgames.org]
Mediapartners-Google [calcgames.org]
Avant Browser/contype/NSPlayer [calcgames.org]
Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 9.4).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 9.4).
Help me out (Score:2, Interesting)
No diffirent then the last release (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Mozilla 1.6 (Score:2, Interesting)
A point each way. (Score:5, Interesting)
But the truth is that IE has so much of the market share that revisions don't matter. People tend to use whatever came with their system, even if it is older and came with IE 5. If Microsoft didn't push the patches, quite a few people would be using these older version even now.
BTW, I'm using Firefox.
Re:Mozilla 1.6 (Score:3, Interesting)
All those stats... yet no memory useage counts? (Score:3, Interesting)
On a related note, is it just me, or does Moz get paged out a LOT quicker than many other apps? Is it playing "too" nice somehow?
Re:Mozilla 1.6 (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Thanks Moz Team. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, I have similar issues with epiphany. I like its layout and its Gnomeiness but there are certain options it blocks (even out of regular mozilla) that I would really like to have. Every time I download something and the damn download statusbar comes up I want to put my fist through the screen. You can't dare close it either as that will stop the download. Hopefully tomorrow when 2.6 launches I'll be able to play with Epiphany 1.2.0 and it'll have more options.
Galeon (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Help me out (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Who fucking cares (Score:5, Interesting)
Feeding the troll:
You are right. Mozilla's marketshare isn't large. Most Windows users probably don't even know it exists. This doesn't mean they haven't used Mozilla or that Mozilla would be insignificant.
I've seen Mozilla based browsers used in several public web terminals. You will not be able to go to a fair of almost any kind without seeing mozilla used (I've been to quite a few that had little or nothing to do with computers and seen mozilla or a browser using the gecko engine used).
Mozilla will not gain a 95% marketshare today nor tomorrow, but it will gain marketshare. IE will live long, probably a time counted in decades, but Mozilla isn't going away.
I've been following Mozilla closely since milestone 16 and I started using it as my main browser arund version 0.96. Before that it was basically horrible. It was unstable, ate memory like crazy and was too slow for me to use.
Mozilla today is a different beast from the early days:
The most stable (modern) browser I've used (links is the most stable ever)
Best standards support
Getting faster by every release
Getting less resource hungry by every release
The most extendable browser around.
IE will live long but so will Mozilla. Mozilla's marketshare will grow, IE's will probably not. Mozilla is evolving fast, IE is not. Mozilla will always be free, IE might not be. Mozilla will be developed as long as anyone wants to do it or has the money to fund it, IE will not.
All I can say that I hope that the current version of IE lives long and that Microsoft keeps iproving it at the current pace. That will ensure that Mozilla will gain marketshare as it races past IE.
Long Live (the current version of) IE
Re:Why... (Score:2, Interesting)
Bob
Never understood why people use Mozilla. (Score:1, Interesting)
I don't even know why they still make it. What's the difference other than Firefox/Thunderbird are faster?
OS X Talkback? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yes, it is smaller and better (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Yes, it is smaller and better (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Mozilla Vs Firefox (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Yes, it is smaller and better (Score:5, Interesting)
Essentially, because MSIE butchers the standards, I know from experience that if I develop and test my code using MSIE it often barfs on anything else. If I code on Moz, because it's pretty well standards compliant, 99% of the time it works straight out of the box in IE too.
I'd still develop under Moz if that wasn't true, though. To get a context menu item that'll tell me
* What form fields are around and what values they have
* What images the page contains
* What links the page contains
saves a _lot_ of hassle. Can they please fix the bug, though, that causes a new HTTP request if I want to view the source? Why can't it just use cached HTML?
Debugging code? (Score:2, Interesting)
If so then these performance gains will be even better once the debugging stuff's taken out for production. Will they not?
Re:noticeable? (Score:2, Interesting)
That takes you back to the larger question of why none of the alternative browsers ever gains significant market share. Mouse gestures, tabbed browsing, etc. just doesn't seem to take you very far. Consider Moz's flat-line performance on the Google Zeitgeist [google.com], for example. You have to wonder if Microsoft's decision to integrate a simple web browser into Windows Explorer isn't closer to the mark, something that has value to ordinary users.
Remove Nuke feature (Score:1, Interesting)
Please adjust the context menu when right clicking on a tab, so that "close other tabs" is further away from "close tab".
I got bit in the ass again by this. I don't know if it is the slowness, or whatever it is, but when right clicking on a tab, the tab/window and menu sometimes move a bit as I'm selecting "close tab" (or I just miss), and I end up closing "other tabs" by mistake. It's not so much a problem on windows, I'm guessing, but on Linux, where I run for weeks at a time without a reboot, I tend to have quite a few tabs open at a time. And going back to the sites is not an option, as some of the tabs contain news, which has changed hours or days later even though the url is the same.
Is it possible to include an option in the preferences menu (under tabbed browsing) to add/eliminate/reconfigure the context menus? I tried looking in the
Another request: After going to a web page, if I want to save that page later, the browser goes to the web site to get the page again. This is a problem under two circumstances: If offline, and if the page has changed. I had a news page that I wanted to save, that was sitting on my desktop for a few days and I didn't get a chance for unrelated reasons to save it earlier. When I did save it, it saved the updated page, which carried a different news story at the same url as the old story. While wgetting the page again for saving may have its advantages, there should be an option of saving the page from the temporary file created to view the original page, not getting the page again to save it. Something like "save from cache" (and this needs to work even if cache is set to 0 mb, the file is still temporarily created somewhere if cache is set to 0 mb in the preferences menu) in the same area as "save html only" and "save web page complete" would be the proper place I believe (but still retaining the other choices, not substituting them).
I'm writing this here, instead of submitting it as a feature request or bug because I tried submitting this same feature request and others (and a couple of bugs that someone else fixed anyway) a while back (more than six months), but the submission area is sooo confusing and covers so many areas that I couldn't figure it out, and abandoned the submission the few times I did try. Sorry, but it is too complicated for me.
Thanks for the work on Mozilla to everyone! I use it regularly because Konqueror (my first choice) lacks the "save web page complete" choice, and mangles the tvguide listings (yeah, I'm sure the tvguide page doesn't conform to w3c, but Mozilla works, Konqueror doesn't, on that particular page, so I have no choice), and Konqueror still crashes on me.
Re:Yes, it is smaller and better (Score:2, Interesting)
Besides, it's rarely plugins that are the issue between browsers. In my experience Mozilla runs Java, Javascript, Flash, etc as well or better than IE. The only problems I have with them come from boneheaded websites that check the browser and then refuse to allow any none IE browser to access the site. How clueless is that.
Other than those things I don't know what you mean by rich content. HTML is HTML in any browser.
Re:MNG? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Yes, it is smaller and better (Score:3, Interesting)
What recent releases? WinIE hasn't changed for something like 3 years, and as I understand it Microsoft have said they won't do any more changes to their HTML/DOM/CSS support, ever (even in the IE release that will be in Longhorn). One hopes they are bluffing or will change their mind, but the fact remains that basically, as far as WinIE's rendering engine goes, nothing has changed in years and nothing will have for years to come (no non-security-related changes to be shipped in IE before Longhorn, have said Microsoft officials).
Re:Mozilla 1.6 (Score:3, Interesting)
"Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040308 Firefox/0.7"
to
"Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)"
To deal with browser detection on broken sites. More often than not I forget to change it back afterward.
Re:All those stats... yet no memory useage counts? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you're comparing to IE, then it's not a fair comparison since IE hides some of its memory footprint in explorer and other places and still takes up 12-25 MB for iexplore.exe.
If you're comparing to Konqueror or another KHTML or Gecko browser, then nevermind.
On a related note, is it just me, or does Moz get paged out a LOT quicker than many other apps? Is it playing "too" nice somehow?
I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but if you're using Moz under Windows then the disadvantage is that Moz plays fair. IE, MS Office, Sun Java and Adobe Acrobat Reader I've noticed hang around in RAM a long, long time after you quit using them. I suspect they have settings to stay in memory an extra long time, where I suspect Mozilla plays nice and sets itself to normal and therefore gets squeezed out by the others.
If you're talking about an X / POSIX platform, then nevermind.
Re:This is why I dropped Netscape (Score:5, Interesting)
The slowdown from snappy to slow takes a day or two of use, and requires a restart of the browser to fix.
This happens both in mozilla and fire-fox, so it must be some internal resource leak, I guessing.
Re:Yes, it is smaller and better (Score:2, Interesting)
BTW Greg, the PNH toolbar might be of interest to you? I find it damn handy myself:
http://placenamehere.com/pnhtoolbar/
Re:Yes, it is smaller and better (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:5% to 9% is "dramatic"? (Score:2, Interesting)
We don't expect a 50% cut in speed every few months after all. It all adds up over time though.
Re:Yes, it is smaller and better (Score:4, Interesting)
I ran into one of those yesterday on a sporting goods sales site... wrote them a nastygram quoting their rejection-page back to them, together with my browser identity, then asking whether I should expect the same kind of bullshit from their merchandise that I find in their web site design.
idiot bastards!
Re:MNG? (Score:3, Interesting)
Part of the problem there is that animated GIFs are still considered images, whereas MNG is probably considered video (since its mime type is... video/mng? Or is it video/x-mng?.) Therefore any site which only permits images to be displayed on it (various bulletin board sites are the main culprits, I suspect) might still cripple MNG supporters.
Unless you really can have <img> tags which contain MNGs, in which case I'll STFU.
Re:This is why I dropped Netscape (Score:1, Interesting)
Mozilla Marketshare is Growing (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, IE does have greater "marketshare", but all it took me was a few nudges to get Windows users to switch. Now if I can just get them to change their homepage to
All this from a former MCSE who though Microsoft was the end-all be all and Linux was just a flash in the pan...
Re:In other news... (Score:3, Interesting)
Ironically enough, I'm writing this using Firefox, 'cause my copy of IE is infested with some weird stealth popup engine that neither Ad-Aware nore Spybot can seem to corner. I'm very close to abandoning IE, going back to Mozilla permanently.
But I'm not quite there. Now might seem the right time to abandon IE, with its stupid security holes and lack of standards compliance. But Firefox still takes too long to download graphics and render complicated web pages. And the Mozilla version of the Google toolbar has a really stupid bug (actually more a case of overdesign [mozdev.org]) that makes search term buttons totally useless. I can't live without search term buttons!
Re:MNG? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:All those stats... yet no memory useage counts? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Get an optimized build (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:All those stats... yet no memory useage counts? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not a secret API. It's MSHTML.DLL, which EXPLORER.EXE (since Win95+IE4 or Win98) and IEXPLORE.EXE both use. It probably uses (documented, non-secret) APIs to create shared r/w data pages for an interprocess in-memory cache. (And, to be fair, if you were writing an embeddable shared-object web browser control meant to be part of 20 apps at once, all owned by the same user, why wouldn't you?)
JS difference between Mozilla and MSIE (Score:5, Interesting)
Be careful when using setInterval() and setTimeout(). Mozilla 1.3 cannot use setTimeout() recursively to create the effect of setInterval() without maxing CPU usage. setInterval() works fine. If you want something to happen at regular intervals, use setInterval() to make all browsers happy.
---
One issue where the browsers are different is capturing key events:
MSIE6 requires: Mozilla1.3 works with: [addchar() is a generic function to handle the processing of each key regardless of the browser.]
[Why did Slashcode add a space within the ECODE tags?]
Luckily both sets of code can be on the same page with the KeyPress event being set correctly without testing for the browser names. I prefer the second method because it allows the code to be contained in a
To be on-topic:
Does Mozilla1.7 allow for the awful event model of MSIE? Will this code still work?
my Book of Mozilla entry. (Score:3, Interesting)
And so the beast became agile. The unbelievers fell silent and the followers of
Mammon were left behind. The beast had been improved and awaited the release of
the great FireFox.
from The Book of Mozilla, 1:7b
(Red Letter Edition)
Firefox (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why Thunderbird at all? (Score:3, Interesting)
The disadvantage of splitting the apps is greatly increased memory usage. There is some performance increase and memory usage reduction due to the simplification of the user interfaces, but that's greatly outweighed by each app using it's own copy of the Gecko libraries. (To those who want to complain about Mozilla having an IRC client and the like, that stuff has always been an optional part of the install) The development of Firefox and Thunderbird aren't syncronized at all, so there isn't any chance of that getting changed anytime soon.
Mozilla IS getting faster (Score:2, Interesting)
The GUI is also much snappier.
I see good days ahead for Mozilla. A few days ago, a non-techie friend of mine saw me using Firefox and inquired about it. Once he installed it and saw the tabbing, pop-up blocking, speed, and skinnability, he immediately set it as his default browser. Though IE is the most common right now, people will find about the quality of Mozilla sooner or later. Actually, who cares? Even if they don't, I and all my friends still get to use a superb browser
Mozilla@linux + Macromedia (flash/shockwave) (Score:3, Interesting)
When accessing shockwave/flash pages, Mozilla (and Netscape, and Opera) crashes on me rather frequently. It happens atleast a couple of time every business day. I just copied the plugins from the standard Netscape 7.1 distribution.
Are there any other shockwave/flash plugins that I can use that dont bring my browser down all the time ? Any hints/tricks/tips greatly appreciated! (Apart from trying out Mozilla 1.7
Re:Why Thunderbird at all? (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe 'cos some non-IE people use Browsers other than Mozilla?
It means you can mix-and-match. You can use Opera, or Konqueror or even Internet Explorer, but without being tied to their particular mail-client. And then use a Moz-based e-mail/news client without being tied to the Browser.
Personally I mainly use the Mozilla suite. Although Firefox is fast reaching the point where I'll want to use it at work - where I need a standalone browser. But just 'cos I always use the browser and mail client together doesn't mean I don't know that some people want/use them seperately.
Plus if they do develop Thunderbird seperately, it's still based on the Mozilla codebase IIRC. So if they suddenly find some major optimisations for the mail/news side of things, they can probably be ported across to the full suite.
TiggsRe:Mozilla 1.6 (Score:2, Interesting)
I haven't played with Links yet, but if it avoids this problem I'm all for it.