Ars Technica Looks At GNOME 2.6 [updated]

The Original Yama writes "Ars Technica takes a look inside the GNOME 2.6 Desktop & Developer Platform, due for release any minute now. It builds upon an earlier review of the GNOME 2.5 development series and their own examination of GNOME 2.4." darthcamaro writes "internetnews.com is running a story about the release of GNOME 2.6 today. They actually got a hold of Miguel de Icaza who had some real interesting stuff to say about it and the Linux Desktop in general. 'de Icaza told internetnews.com that a simpler interface has been the goal of GNOME since at least version 2.0.'" Update: 03/31 21:59 GMT by T : sn0wman3030 was one of many submitters to link to the GNOME 2.6 start page, including links to screenshots, documentation, and source downloads.

Re:USB

[altp]

USB support is done via the drivers and kernel not Gnome, GTK, KDE, QT or any other Desktop environment ortoolkit .

Re:Someone explain this to me, please.

[Rick Zeman]

Doing a search for technica reveals that slashdot links to that site frequently, yet in terms of content they deliver the same kind of news

Slashdot doesn't create content, but just links to articles. Slashdot is a portal; its only content are the user comments. Ars does great work and their articles are their content. Their stuff is definitely "News For Nerds. Stuff That Matters."

What about

[big_groo]

Dropline [dropline.net]?

Does anyone have any news on this?

Re:Someone explain this to me, please.

[dealsites]

Yes, your statement is true. While I could go to all the different sites to find my daily news, I try to save time by going to Slashdot. They link to different news articles that II may interested in. They've recently linked to techjapan, ars technia, and toms hardware. I'm sure those site publish great articles that Slashdot doesn't always pick up on, but Slashdot does provide a general overview.

On a similar note, I used to visit all the deal websites each day to make sure I don't miss out on a hot sale. To save time, I started this page [dealsites.net] to collect them all in real time. Anyone can use it and search deals from multiple websites. Clicking a link takes you to the orginating web page. So I guess I'm running a portal like Slashdot by merely linking to other sites.

spatial metaphor?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "spatial metaphor" sounds pretty lame.

Looks like someone was trying too hard to do something "revolutionary".

Wow, it remembers the last folder you where in! So does the file browser on freaking xmms.

Everytime you click a folder it opens a new window? That sucks! Ya it can be avoided with a middle click but why do that in the first place, since everyone is obviously just going to use middle click. I wouldn't say that's a bug but it certainly isn't a "feature" either.

Re:I Like Gnome

[bsharitt]

I've always found tthe Gnome UI(in the 2.x series) to be quite clean and professional, and it happens that I'm a Mac user too. KDE just seems to be trying to be Windows way too much, although it is improving too.

(btw- why is the parent a troll? He's just complementing to DE the article is about)

Speed of 2.6???

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish he would have commented on the speed of 2.6, rather than just talked about what looked pretty or not.

Re:I Like Gnome

[the_2nd_coming]

to me...KDE while having a lot of features and tweeakables...is way to messy. Gnome on the other hand has decided to go down the road of OS X with an HIG and simpler is better and integration is paramount(and by integration I mean the tools as part of the Desktop environment, not necessarily a modular design like Kparts)

"simpler interface" but at what cost ?

[phoxix]

I could to totally wrong on this, but from what I've seen great features are being removed from really cool apps in this absurd strive for a "simpler interface"

Case in point:

Xchat used to have this GUI option called "Old Nick Completion" (Its like zsh's tab completion, but for IRC) But now it doesn't. The code for the function is still there, but the GUI option is not. No offense to the xchat guys, but this easily robs people of a great IRC great experience.

For proof of what I'm talking about:

a) look at this patch: Xchat Old Nick Completion Patch [opencurve.org]

B) the Mandrake Xchat package ships with the above patch

C) download the Xchat source code, and take a gander. Then notice how your own Xchat installation is missing this great feature

Lets not dumb down GREAT SOFTWARE like Xchat!

Sunny Dubey

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[drivers]

Double-middle-click (or double-right-click, I'm not sure) on a directory closes the current window and pops the new one. This de-annoyifies Nautilus quite a bit. :)

I was disgusted when I read that in the article. That is rediculous. Expecting users to get used to using an alternate button just for their app... and if you happen to be thinking about the task at hand instead of the UI you'll end up making mode mistakes. Who let this through? Aren't there UI standards in projects like these?

Re:Someone explain this to me, please.

[use_compress]

The difference between ./ and Technica is that slashdot can bring down Technica whenever it wants.

Re:Gnome needs an install program

[StoneTable]

or Debian, and apt-get update. Whatever your distribution of choice is, there is likely an easy way to upgrade. emerge, apt-get, yum, up2date, red-carpet, etc, etc, etc.

Nautilus

[iantri]

Excellent.. I firmly believe that the Mac OS 9 Finder is the best file manager in existance.. nothing else even comes close. The speed and ease with which you can organize files is amazing.

Nice to see this interface ("spatial whatever") being put to proper use outside of the Mac.

I love GNOME's timed releases

[Anonymous Coward]

Having a new version of GNOME every 6 months strikes me a perfect compromise between adding new features and improving exisitng architecture. The bottom line is that these last few releases of GNOME have felt consistently polished.

So far, I love using the latest 2.6 (ok, strictly speaking: 2.5) version. Even sweeter, the 2.8 version is already promising to be a significant improvement with new applications and better infrastructure!

Thanks and great job GNOME developers and testers!

Re:"simpler interface" but at what cost ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to second this in relation to spacial navigation.

There may well be principles that dictate that spacial navigation is "better". But is it really faster? Maybe for a granpa that can't grasp the concept of folders properly... but no disrespect but people like that are going to be dead in 10 yrs. EVERYONE understands folders now, and EVERYONE understands "browsers" with back and forward. I have yet to see a person who doesn't like tabs.

It's insane to be going the route of tabs for browsers, and then be dumbing down the file managers. The two concepts should converge (I don't particularly like konqueror, but they have the convergance bit right).

The rational for ignoring popular opinion and the popular skill-base (windows and osx and now both browsing files, the finder is genius)... let alone ignoring easy of use.

I seriously doubt a person with spacial mode could outpace a person with a window or two in browser mode (there is no dictate saying browser mode has to only have one window) a line on buttons below the title bar is a little larger... but having 5 fewer windows because of it is a massive improvement.

The only way I could imagine using the new nautilus is to have a expose style window management feature and maybe a seperate desktop for all your "file"needs .... and if you are going to have a seperate desktop... why not just have the browser.

Nautilus is looking very Mac-like.

[s3nns]

Since switching to OS X, the spatial Finder is the only thing I've found myself missing from the Classic OS. Although OS X's Finder is sucking less and less with each revision, I still don't think it comes anywhere near the usability of the old Finder. (YMMV, of course. Old habits die hard.)

Nautilus seems to get it incredibly right, though. Although I've yet to use it for myself, Nautilus seems to immitate all the right things from the spatial Finder of old. (I haven't actually used Gnome since version 1.4, but I'm tempted to take another look.)

Kudos to the Gnome team, it's looking better and better with each release.

What's with the spatial desktop???

[Mjlner]

Seriously though... It's been tried on both the Mac and Windows and the conclusion has been almost unanimous: sure, it's nice for newbies to copy ten, twenty, maybe even fifty or so files, but it doesn't scale. It simply isn't practical for large amounts of files, which Apple noticed in time for OSX. Besides, had the Gnome team read "About face", they would know that UI design isn't all about catering for newbies.

I just don't get the Gnome devs somtimes

[bogie]

First off for a minor update it seems totally nuts to jump to a completely different paradigm for file management. Its just wrong throwing this out to users who are used to the other way of handling files for years. This should have been done at 3.0, not at 2.6. Second, the old behavior should STILL be default. The spatial setting should be secondary but let the user know he/she can try it. You don't just switch the way things have been in such a major way with no transition period. That's the thing about Gnome they seem to just make major changes to the way you interact with your PC between releases without any notice.

Another example that comes to mind is the way they up and switched the "Yes" "No" "Cancel" dialog out of the blue. Right now the way Gnome does it is just bass ackwards to the way 95% of the world is used to. Sure I'm used to it now, but any Windows or KDE user who tries out Gnome will find themselves clicking on the wrong button because Gnome has it backwards. That's what happened to me after getting used to the old Gnome way.

The people in charge at Gnome just don't seem to want to ever settle down and let people get comfortable with the way they interact with the OS. Next release the File Selector will probably be further modified and you'll have to relearn they yet again. It just seems that there is all of this talk about Gnome and their superior HIG methods yet the things that shouldn't be changing get changed with every release. Pick a file selector, pick a file manager setup, pick a file confirmation dialog and stick with it, Forever. Stop changing the basic ways in which we interact with the OS with every release.

Re:What's with the spatial desktop???

[DrWhizBang]

It's been tried on both the Mac and Windows and the conclusion has been almost unanimous

Whose conclusion has been almost unanimous? You never asked me.
Please don't call the MS's lame-asses attempt at copying the Mac interface aka Windows 95 "spatial". It is not. In fact, I had trouble swtiching from Win 3.1 to Win95 because MS screwed things up by taking a crufty filesystem, tacking on a couple of layers of recursive abstraction, and then removing the File Manager and replacing it with explorer, which couldn't do either spatial or browser correctly.

The Mac always did this correctly, making the spatial metaphor work because it was consistent (until OS X).

Browser based file navigation is OK as long as it is consistent, but spatial has the advantage of making the filesystem easier to understand. You complain about scalability, but did you use Mac OS 9, where you could "dock" windows as tabs to the bottom of the screen, and navigate using "spring-loaded" folders? I miss that every time I need to use a computer. I was never more efficient at managing my files than I was in those days :-(

The challenge that the gnomers face is using a spatial view on a much more complex filesystem. Hopefully, they pull this off - I can't wait to try the new nautilus to see if they have.

As good as MAC OS X?

[Garg]

"GNOME is turning into something that is really pleasant to use," he [de Icaza] said. "I can happily say that GNOME 2.6 is up to the level of MAC OS X usability."

Suuuuuuurrre it is. And I've got a bridge to sell you cheap.

Don't get me wrong; I hope he's correct. If so, Linux will really start to make some serious inroads on the desktop. But unless 2.6 is really a quantum leap, I don't think it's true.

Mac's are still the all-time usability champs. You can take people who are deathly afraid of computers and they can use a Mac after a short while. So I'll believe it when I see it.

Garg

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Slashdotters just can't understand Gnome

[ericdfields]

The majority of the posts I'm seeing that are 'anti-gnome' stem from the sheer fact that all of you out there are more than just computer users; you are programmers, devleopers, engineers, students, enthusiests, etc. Gnome is not directly targeted toward you.

The Gnome Desktop is very forward looking, as what it does is based on the assumption that Linux On The Desktop will be truely realized one day, and it is preparing to meet the needs of those future (read: not yet existing) Linux users. That isn't to say that Gnome can't be used by any contemporary Linux user with an advanced computer knowledge, it's just not made tailored to you guys. Play around with it. Get to know it a bit more. Then customize to you're liking. Gnome can work however you want it to. That's one of the more beautiful aspects of it.

As for the so-called lack of intuitiveness, this is just plain false. Gnome is as intuitive as a never-used-a-computer computer user can experience (without violating any patents!). Beacuse realistically, the _user_ needs only their home directory with a few sub directories (Documents, Pictures, Music, Movies, etc.). You don't need more than a window or two to manage them. That aforementioned Linux _user_ of the future will appreciate how easy it is to drag and drop between these folders in multiple windows. For the rest of you, it's your duty to discover that parent folder widget as well as the "Browse Folder" option in the right-click menu (i think that's where it is).

In reality, the future linux user (and really all users) will only need to access files as items in a niche program like Rhythmbox or OpenOffice/AbiWord which specifically deal with a particular document type.

I agree that maybe nautilus-cd-burner doesn't jive well anymore. Something along the lines of Mac OS X's 'Burn to CD' radioactive icon is needed somewhere, or something. Thse sorts of things are minor, however, since the Gnome desktop is still not in its future where Linux is mainstream, they still have time to figure out how to manage this issue. In the meantime, chill out, or invest time in compiling k3b.

Slashdot seems to be full of impulsive radicals who vehemently stick to their OS/DE/Apps of choice, and are quick to insult anyone or anything else that's not their favorite. It's a strange sort of application bigotry. Of course, ignorance plays no part in bigotry...

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[Waffle Iron]

I'm in the camp that says this kind of stuff is bad. IMO, the whole reason computers exist is because so many real objects suck. If physical folders and files had the properties we needed, then we wouldn't need to take so much effort to implement them in computers.

Invariably, my physical desk gets stacked deep with huge piles of papers and other miscellaneous stuff. This sucks because I can't find what I need amongst all of the clutter. My opinion is that this "spatial navigation", or popping up dozens of windows or whatever, is just emulating this undesirable clutter on the computer.

The computer is able to manage navigation very neatly with features such as the back-arrow dropdown list in file managers and browsers. If such a feature were available in the real world, my physical desktop would always be neat and I'd save gobs of time. (Hmm, maybe I should try installing a cafeteria dish stack holder in my desk...)

I don't agree that always trying to emulate the limitations of the real world is a good thing just because the limitations of the real world are more "intuitive".

Re:Oh yea.

[LMCBoy]

"Everybody" did not say that choice is bad. Some people prefer simplicity over choice, others prefer the opposite. Amazing, I know.

Hear, Hear!

[Senjutsu]

I think this is great news, as I'll finally have a file management program that works the way *I* want it to work. I'm really surprised at the amount of hate this is getting; you can just turn the option off if you don't like it, people.

Prior to this it too often seemed like all the serious file managment options boiled down to: "You can have a file manager that works however you want, as long as it's some minor variation on Windows' browser metaphor".

Choice is a good thing.

GnomeMac, KDEWin

[mst76]

Although it isn't completely clear cut, it seems that KDE takes a lot of inspiration from Windows Explorer (yes I know it does a lot more), while Gnome seems more like MacOS Finder (but isn't as good yet). I guess the majority of computer users (including the /. crowd) comes from a Windows background, which may explain why they feel more at home in KDE than Gnome.

Re:Oh god...

[jjhlk]

What's wrong with Gnome's "regedit"? Would you prefer a text file with pretty much the same layout (one option per line) but where options are missing and you have to read the documentation to find out if they even exist? It is Ok to me.

Re:Oh yea.

[MostlyHarmless]

Apparently, sometimes choice is good, and sometimes choice is bad. Imagine that. (I like having the choice of ketchup or mustard, but I would prefer the former to be red and the latter to be green.)

In other news, the Slashdot Borg Entity has dissolved itself after two members expressed different opinions on an issue.

Re:+1, informative

[Brandybuck]

Another view mode would have been more intuitive, but what the heck.

While another view mode would have been more intuitive, it would not have followed the Gnome philosophy of a more intuitive interface. Now isn't that intuitive?

Seriously, when a desktop starts making things harder to use in an effort to make them easier, there's a serious disconnect.

GnomeVFS sounds awesome

[the_truk_stop]

I'm really looking forward to this GnomeVFS abstraction layer while saving and opening. What I've read (without having yet compiled it for Gentoo) has already gotten me into some fun conversations with my Linux-using friends:

Allan: "Whoa, whoa, Gnome's getting _really_ smart!"
Me: "No, it's getting really STUPID. It only understands opening and saving.

Gnome: "FTP? Yeah, I'm not sure what that is, but I'd sure like to save this document right now to this location.
GnomeVFS: "Sure thing." *** 1337 under-cover action ***
Gnome: "Oh, you can do that for me? Cool!"

- Kurt