Hackers: Under The Hood 280
jyre writes "ZDNet Australia has a special report that profiles and interviews five hackers over the next five days. Day 1: Raven Alder's page is up now (inludes photos). Day 2 will be Attrion.org creator, Jericho. Day 3: Adrian Lamo. Day 4: Kevin Mitnick and Day 5: L0phtCrack creator, Mudge."
Ah, Attrion. (Score:5, Funny)
Mods don't hurt me
Re:Ah, Attrion. (Score:1)
ahh.. the joys of getting to your misspelled urls before the squatters do.
stdcallsign
Uhhh... (Score:1)
Re:Ah, Attrion. (Score:3, Insightful)
It would be nice if they could spell... (Score:5, Informative)
Everyone should know that it is ATTRITION.org [attrition.org], anyhow (and, at least, the link is correct).
Re:It would be nice if they could spell... (Score:3, Funny)
<voice impersonate="southpark:wendy"> Ewww, gross! </voice>
Re:It would be nice if they could spell... (Score:2)
Who? (Score:3, Funny)
0.
I agree. They aren't interesting. (Score:5, Interesting)
A few years ago a major New Zealand ISP was "hacked" -- or so the media said. The biggest talkshow host of the time interviewed the alleged "h4x0r" live, and proclaimed him to be a "computer genius". We were all in deadly and imminent danger of being hacked by guys like him he said.
The "hacker" in question was a 13 year old whose friend's older brother worked for the ISP. The older brother had stupidly given his staff login and password to his kid brother, who had, naturally, shared it with his friend, the "genius hacker". This friend then logged in and deleted a bunch of hosted websites. Pretty frikken 1337, huh?
Take the little assholes out and beat them with wet towels, then make them parade naked through the streets. A fit punishment for such computer Uber-Gurus.
Re:Who? (Score:2)
Interview Mel Kaye! Then you'll care! (-: (Score:2)
Prominent (and "notorious") hackers (Score:5, Insightful)
This is to be expected from a mainstream publication that intends to present "hacking" in a mainstream light. I say, read at your own risk.
Re:Prominent (and "notorious") hackers (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Prominent (and "notorious") hackers (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe even a few people in the general public will become enlighted to some of the issues involving computer security: Microsoft's lip service to security, public bashing of Linux, the dangers of a monoculture and the magnitude of un-patched end user's systems to name just a few.
We can only hope.
The simple fact that it is from ZDnet.com.au speaks volumes as to the bias here in Amer
Re:Prominent (and "notorious") hackers (Score:3, Insightful)
Or maybe presenting some never-weres, as "reformed" anythings, when they are only media whores, will just confuse the public into thinking that all hackers are idiots, and thus harmless.
Re:Prominent (and "notorious") hackers (Score:2)
Definition (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Definition (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had this argument with journalists before; it's one of the reasons that I tend to avoid being interviewed.
"Tell me about your secret blackhat teenage years!"
"Uh, I never had a secret blackhat teenage phase."
"Oh, come on, you can tell me."
"No, really, I didn't."
Repeat ad nauseum.
Re:Definition (Score:2)
(oh and tell me about your secret blackhat teenage years!
OT: broken resume link (Score:2)
Perhaps we'll see (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Perhaps we'll see (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps we'll see (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps we'll see (Score:4, Funny)
L0pht crack (Score:5, Funny)
Re:L0pht crack (Score:2)
Re:Whacked Mac - Was: Re:L0pht crack (Score:2)
I thought the site was fast back then, but that was just because you didn't have bloody pictures everywhere, and those too forever to load. That little 68030 really wasn't meant to go online, but it was a lot of fun (-:
This topic is making me nostalgic because I remember reading through all these people's sites back before spam and pop-up ads. I wish I would have emailed some of them when the net was smaller. (and had kept my origional
Re:L0pht crack (Score:2)
It's the stories that are always masked by stigma. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm actually surprised there have not been more television biographies on hackers. It seems A&E Biographies, Discovery Channel, Learning Channel etc. would want to tell these stories.
www.reeddavid.com [reeddavid.com]
These stories kind of annoy me. (Score:3, Insightful)
If I was a loser I could burgle houses if I chose to. It's not exactly difficult. Even the rich neighborhoods would be easy pickings. I'm sure I could break into many places before I got caught. But I'd still be a loser.
So why are the computerland equivalent of dirty little sneak thieves constantly being feted as heroes and geniuses all the damn time?
I hate movies like 'Hackers' which give zit-faced teenage virgins the idea that they'll get to screw Angelina Jolie if only they could be 1337...
Re:These stories kind of annoy me. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:These stories kind of annoy me. (Score:2)
A friend of mine was busted by detectives for tricking some guy on IRC into accepting an EXE and running it. He then got his ISP login and that to various porn sites the guy was a member to. He was eventually busted sponging off the guy's net account.
When it made the newspaper (small story) he was clearly portrayed as basically a smart kid looking for a challenge. Nothing overly
Raven definitely knows her shit. (Score:5, Insightful)
The kind of stuff she does is far above and beyond the sort of "easy pickings" you're imagining.
Don't project your own script-kiddyness onto people actually have skills.
Re:These stories kind of annoy me. (Score:2)
Perfect Ad (Score:5, Funny)
That's about the most perfect example of what she's talking about anybody could have come up with...
Re:Perfect Ad (Score:5, Interesting)
Attrition!? (Score:5, Insightful)
The other guys have either shown skill, or created something. And lets shut up about "cracker v.s hacker" BS. Hacking is a SKILL SET, you can define black hat, grey hat, white hat from there if you want. Just because someone breaks the law doesn't mean they aren't a good "hacker" and are suddenly a "cracker".
Also remember not all intruders are "dumb kiddies" there takes skill in a real intrusion even if you are using pre-canned exploits. There is a hacking mindset to getting into places. Its the same mindset used in writing unique code, among other things. Its not all dotslash. Thats like saying U.S Special Forces are 'kiddies' since all they do is a pull a trigger. Wrong.
So tired of these people ranting and raving about 'cracking'. Get your head out of your asses and get off the bandwagon.
Re:Attrition!? (Score:4, Informative)
Script kiddies are called that for a reason. Often young and not terribly bright, they take programs written by others, programs they don't understand and can barely use, and launch attacks against the systems of others with them. Script kiddies, by definition, couldn't successfully modify or improve the code of the programs they employ if their lives depended on it.
From my own experience I'd guess that perhaps only one in twenty so-called 'hackers' has the first damned clue what they're doing. Of this subset perhaps one in twenty could actually write an intrusion program of minimal value. And of this subset, perhaps one in twenty is actually skilled enough to call themselves 'hackers' and be recognized as such by expert coders.
The actual number of hackers, or folks I'd deign to give the title, is minimal. The number of script kiddies is legion. This is actually a good thing, as you'd rather your average petty criminal was a fucking idiot than a genius any day of the week. It's easy to defend yourself against an moron who can't respond to a change in defensive strategy because they're incapable of modifying the code of their tools or coming up with a creative way to launch an attack; it's much more difficult to match yourself against someone with real talent who's spent years honing their skills in intrusion.
Max
Re:Attrition!? (Score:4, Insightful)
Looks like someone's fragile little ego got stepped on. "What have they done since then" and "there takes skill in a real intrusion" are the tipoffs that we're probably dealing with a 16-year-old who think computing began with him - yeah, almost inevitably him, sorry but that's the way it is in that community and I had to pick a pronoun. Here's a clue for you, kid. Cracking might not take zero skill, but it's still absolutely nothing compared to the difficulty of actually creating the systems you crack, or the tools you use on either side of the security fence. Reality puts up a lot more obstacles than any number of white hats, black hats, or any other color hats. Raven - who can obviously take care of herself and doesn't need my help defending her or other female hackers - offers some excellent advice that I can only second:
Re:Attrition!? (Score:2)
If you were really that bright, you wouldn't be asking. What I do is right on my website, which is linked from here. You, on the other hand, hide behind the cloak of anonymous cowardice, from which any idiot can claim any credentials (and often does) without fear of contradiction. Not only have I worked on enterprise networks, but I'm currently active in defining and implementing new functionality for storage networks
Not that 1337 (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not that 1337 (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe that might apply to Mitnick. But Mudge/L0pht, Lamo, and Jericho/Attrition.org all publicized their own works. The L0pht folks said, "Hey, world, here's some software." Should they still be secret after that? Attrition.org was a public web site, fercrissake.
And Raven Alder is 100-percent pure white-hat. She's interested in finding and publicizing vulns (and other security problems), rather than secretly exploiting them. Why in the world is that something that nobody should "have ever heard of"?
When
An open letter to the anti-trolls. (Score:5, Insightful)
Reading this thread so far has led me to dismay. What thread dominates? Something that's so crude that it ought to be beneath our dignity to respond, even to condemn it. A few people have jumped on the trolls, modding them down into oblivion or responding to them.
Here's a question: why? All it's doing is giving the trolls publicity. All it's doing is making people think that gender is an issue, because if it wasn't an issue, why would such a firestorm exist? If it wasn't an issue, why wouldn't the trolls just get modded into oblivion and go ignored, like the GNAA trolls?
If you want to make a statement, if you want to condemn the immature and third-grade behavior of the trolls, if you want to say "look, I for one welcome competent people and I don't give a damn what plumbing they've got", the best response is not to jump on the troll bandwagon and respond to them.
Mod them into oblivion, and let them be forgotten.
They are nothing. For nothing, let there be nothing.
If you want to make a statement, if you want to make a stand, if you want to say "look, I have no clue who this woman is, but frankly I'm appalled by some of the behavior here"... well, hey. Respond to this thread. Mod up responses in this thread. Let's take the publicity away from the trolls and put it to productive use. Let's see if we can't get a few dozen Slashdotters to make a positive stand instead of going around and giving the trolls what they want--furor.
Re:An open letter to the anti-trolls. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:An open letter to the anti-trolls. (Score:2)
Plus, now that I've responded, I can't mod.
Catch-22.
Re:An open letter to the anti-trolls. (Score:2)
Here's a question: why? All it's doing is giving the trolls publicity. All it's doing is making people think that gender is an issue, because if it wasn't an issue, why would such a firestorm exist? If it wasn't an issue, why wouldn't the trolls just get modded into oblivion and go ignored, like the GNAA trolls?
Are you complaining because you think gender isn't an issue, or because you really wish it wasn't? Obviously it is an issue for some people, otherwise people would do exactly what you're saying.
Re:An open letter to the anti-trolls. (Score:3, Insightful)
Better yet, try working with those IT departments when you have a woman partner. When the geeks aren't hitting on her they spend their time muttering about what a 'frigid bitch' she is because she won't hop
Re:Or... (Score:2)
Its too bad too, it only hurts everyone, anyone sees a woman bing promoted and its always assumed its only because shes a woman or she earned it on her back, and on the other hand it gives fuel to the argument that all men are pigs.
It would
Re:An open letter to the anti-trolls. (Score:3, Interesting)
When people make hurtful personal remarks, sure, that's immature, and shouldn't enter into a discussion on what is basically a profile of a person as a hacker. I'm equally offended when people make fun of RMSs beard or Tron dude's camel toe..
I find girls more attractive than guys. I don't think she's a better hacker (well..maybe a better social-engineer:o) just b
Re:Is it really about "skillz"? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Is it really about "skillz"? (Score:5, Interesting)
Reading the article, I found absolutely nothing to indicate Raven's past is anything less than aboveboard. She has pretty much the same skillset I do (albeit she's better than me in a few areas). I came by my skillset via purely ethical means, so until and unless I get evidence otherwise, I'm going to assume the same holds true for how she got her skills.
Re:Is it really about "skillz"? (Score:3, Interesting)
I highly doubt that.
Perhaps you only know one person who admits to doing enough that you would call them a cracker, but I bet you know of a few more people that have at least done something akin to cracking, and probably a whole bunch more who've decided it would be better to never mention anything like that i
Re:Is it really about "skillz"? (Score:3, Insightful)
I didn't say I didn't know any people in the industry who have cracker backgrounds. I said I had yet to meet one single reputable ex-cracker.
Part of the problem is how the term "cracker" gets defined. Do I know people who've cracked systems? Yep. Do I know people who've cracked systems they didn't own and didn't have permission to crack? Yep. Did these people always have solid ethical reasons for it? Yep.
Re:Is it really about "skillz"? (Score:2)
Hackers
Re:Is it really about "skillz"? (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand you have your dumb car thief. In the actual film someone pulls a gun on the big black guy (character name escapes me) who is driving with the window open. He sums it up with the words 'Anyone can pull a gun on somebody' (after he takes out the wannabe carjacker).
Stealing cars is legally and morally wrong, in both of the situations above. It's just that at least Nick Cage put in the time and effort to steal something because it meant something to him. Transfer this analogy to the computer world - script kiddies versus 'skilled hackers'.
I wouldn't want someone to break into my house, but if i had the choice between coming home to find a window smashed, glass all over the floor,graffiti on the wall and all my stuff gone compared to finding the Chubb bolt has been surgically removed from the door and a note saying 'Thanks for the Ming Vase', there'd be at least a slither of admiration for the 'skilled criminal', even though I'd want him arrested and that at the end of the day he's still a thief. People who are good at what they do, whether it's for good or for evil, will always be more respected than the crude, lazy fuckers who try and copy them. A lot of people think of Hitler as a good leader (come on, he was), even though he committed such atrocities.
Note that I'm not actually disagreeing with you, in a perfect world we'd not have to choose the lesser of two evils
Re:Is it really about "skillz"? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What really disgusts me (Score:2)
She's a butch, man-hating dyke.
Then you didn't read it very carefully.
First, I'll confess that the only reason I decided to read the Slashdot comments (which, frankly, are an incredible waste of time) was the entertainment value in reading all of the stupid/clueless "Dude, she's a babe!" / "Nah, she's not a babe, but she's do-able" nonsense. I don't know why I get such a kick out of that. Maybe because stupidity really, truly IS funny. I think it's even funnier that she is serving you guys for lunch.
Second profile is already up (Score:5, Informative)
Question for Raven, since I noticed you're reading (Score:4, Interesting)
I tried studying CS at my university and found it didn't interest me as much as it did when I studied it on my own (hence my becoming a sociology major
Do you have any suggestions for studying on my own? Would it be best to learn one programming language very well and then apply it to others, or is there a better approach? (One of the things I found frustrating in classes was learning a new language in every class I took, when I don't know any language well at all.) What advice can you give someone who would like to learn more, but doesn't do as well in a traditional CS/EECS/etc academic environment - books, good websites, anything? You also said that you were studying "an unrelated field," so I was curious as to how you went about learning more..
(Personally, I know little bits of C, C++, Python, Perl, and Java, but not enough to do anything significant in any of those.. I also have written a few little shell scripts that don't do much. Otherwise, I'm pretty clueless - but I'd really like to increase my knowledge.)
Thank you in advance to Raven and/or anyone else who gives me some advice.
Re:Question for Raven, since I noticed you're read (Score:5, Insightful)
In short, find something that you are interested in and take it apart. [grin] You don't necessarily have to follow a structured academic program to become proficient in a field, whether your intent is to make it your hobby or to make it your profession. My academic background is entirely not in CS, and though I have many friends in CS academia, what they do can be very different indeed from what I do day to day. I learned mostly by experimentation and research on things that I was interested in.
So, find something that you like. Look at the source code, if it's available. Try to figure out what does what. Change things around, and see if you can make it better. One of the best ways to learn for many people is by doing. If you don't know what needs doing, volunteer for a project that is already established and is looking for people. Open Source is so helpful this way -- it feeds your resume *and* helps the community.
My first programming language was Perl. I was told by many geeks that this was a bad choice -- it would give me bad habits if I ever wanted to move to a language with a more rigorous structure. They were right, but it was both a good and bad thing. When I started doing C, and in particular when I started poking at kernel code, I had a lot of extra learning to do. But Perl was still a good way for me to start, because when I started programming I wanted to do quick scripting, not kernel hacking, and the flexibility of Perl was great for me.
Re:Question for Raven, since I noticed you're read (Score:2)
Now, I have a question that is partly in jest and partly in which I would really like to know the answer. If you started programming in Perl, how on earth did you ever stay interested in programming? I'm a "learn by example" when it comes to new languages, but unless I'm sitting next to an O'Reilly book, there isn't an example in the world that makes sense to me.
Did you ever find the "new" slogan for perl - "The
Re:Question for Raven, since I noticed you're read (Score:2)
First, know what is a bit, byte, word, doubleword. What is big-endian and little-endian. What is a stack. How does a processor work in general.
Then, buy "TCP/IP Illustrated, Volume 2". Read it through once.
Write a simple pcap based IDS to detect normal half-open portscan (syn-scan).
Now, write improve on your IDS to give no false positives on a server with undefined amount of undefined services.
Ok this bizzarre (Score:2)
Non-issues (Score:4, Funny)
From the article: Gender is a non-issue... If there's one thing [Raven] hates, it's being type-cast as a "chick hacker".
What a fantastic way to start off an interview: with something the interviewee doesn't consider in any way important! Do these people actually objectively read what they write?
Obligatory Python reference: "And did you write this music in the sheds [uibk.ac.at]?"
Re:Non-issues (Score:2)
The problem is that this has become the reverse of a non-issue. It's an issue because she hates people making it an issue. As for putting it first in the article, sounds fine to me.
Raven, if you ever read this...
I'm going to pretend I'm in your situation. I'm going to pretend, just for a moment, that I'm a man who's into
What a load of crap.. (Score:2)
Wow.. (Score:2)
Programmers: Under The Hood? (Score:3, Insightful)
So when do we get to see some articles on the people that really do matter?
Why is it that programmers get no love? What about the programmers who have changed/influenced culture within the last decade in gaming, corporate, or home use.
*tear* all people want to do is tear our software down and praise the people that do it *tear*
My Attrition story... (Score:5, Interesting)
My wife and I were in Butler, PA about 2-3 years ago to consult a doctor. We arrived early, and decided to wander around a bit and grab a bite to eat.
So, we walked by a storefront with a sign on it that said "Attrition". I glanced in the windows, saw a bunch of hardware, and took a few more steps before I realized "Hey... I *know* who that is!" I went back and poped in with my daughter, just to say hi. Gist of the conversation:
What really registered with me was that here was a fairly well-known web site, being run out of Butler, of all places. No need to live in NY, LA, Chicago, Boston, or any of those other urban sprawls... just find a nice town, get yourself a net connection, and you're in business.
Raven's comments on pre-packaged attacks (Score:4, Interesting)
Last month I had the privelage of watching a small hacking competition as part of a larger defense contractors conference. (Southeastern Software Engineering Conference [ndia-tvc.org]). The had a small network set up to simulate a corporate network and teams attempting to attack it. The team that did the best was a red team from Northropp Grumman (which someone said won the Defcon capture-the-flag competition though I never looked it up).
The thing is, their strategy seemed to be to map the network, then run pre-packaged attacks appropriate for the specific device, then install a backdoor and repeat launching off of the machine they'd taken. Security experts in all their interviews repeatedly state that it is undesirable to do this, (ie, use previously written code for the bulk of their pen testing/attacks). Is there a disconnect between what security experts say and what they actually do?
(I do want to add that the team that won was very impressive, taking about a box an hour through the 6ish hours the contest was run. There was a very small time frame which might have necessitated the canned attacks. But the network was representative with at least 1 dedicated firewall, IDS, and honeypot and computers running windows, linux, and solaris. All with reasonable patching.)
Virginia Tech (Score:2, Funny)
Typo? (Score:2)
Jeriho was at Attrition. Muge was at l0pt.
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:5, Funny)
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:4, Funny)
"Fuck you ".
And yes, she's talking about You [oneeyedcrow.net]
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:5, Funny)
LosT
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:2)
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:3, Interesting)
Through its decision in the Butler vs. Her Majesty case, the Supreme Court of Canada adopted Catherine MacKinnon's definition of obscenity nearly word for word into Canadian law. This 1992 court decision -- which was vigorously championed by most feminists in Canada and the US -- allows Canadian customs to seize what it judges to be pornography at the border as the material is bein
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:3, Insightful)
The semantics arguments are just as tired...
LosT
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:5, Insightful)
For clarity's sake, I am a feminist in the "I believe in equal rights" way, not the "I believe in special treatment" way. I do not believe in or condone banning books. (Indeed, my car has a "Read banned books" sticker on it.) And you can see my take on feminism and porn [oneeyedcrow.net], as relevant to your linked Foucaultian debate, right on my site. [grin] So, I suspect that we largely agree. Thanks for a thoughtful and intelligent comment. It's refreshing.
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:2)
The use of *isms isn't static, it's dynamic- more of a guideline title than a means of defining one's self...I've never met two feminists with even 80% matching world views/belief systems...
LosT
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:2)
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:2)
Yep. I believe in "equal rights" but I would never call myself a feminist.
I think egalitarian is a much better term to use, and much less likely to come back to haunt you.
The term feminist, is irrevocably assosciated with a social movement that has not always displayed the best behavior.
"A woman reading Playboy feels a little like a Jew reading a Nazi manual." -Gloria Stei
'feminist' tag considered harmful (Score:2)
So what does a man who believes in equal rights call himself then? The feminist tag is problematic in itself, as it creates a divide between the genders rather than uniting all people (male, female, transgender) who believe in equal rights regardless of gender.
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:5, Insightful)
It's really nice to know that whatever I can do technically, that it's my cup size that really matters.
You're getting shocked by immature comments on slashdot? Is this your first time here?by raven_alder (772810)
Oh...I guess it is.
P.S. Proud to be unfairly discriminating on the basis of userid, not cup size.
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:3, Informative)
You're getting shocked by immature comments on slashdot? Is this your first time here?
Did you actually read the article [oneeyedcrow.net] that Raven wrote and linked to? It was quite insightful...
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:5, Insightful)
And no, I wasn't shocked by the immature comments, but I gave the trolls one reply. Why? I'm not interested in an extensive flamewar, but a lot of women just shut up and look uncomfortable when stupid sexist bullshit happens. So, that was my token protest. I'm not intending on feeding them any more, and I doubt I changed any of their minds, but I probably made a few lurking women feel better.
I appreciate it (Score:2)
But your boots are unspeakably awesome.
-Carolyn
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:2)
And you've already racked up more karma than I've gotten in 3 years of lurking with the occasional post.
Goodness Me! (Score:3, Insightful)
I sympathise, knowing as I do that women never joke about male bodyparts.
I'm 28.
I'm 38. That doesn't matter either.
I do backbone security, incident response, vulnerability assessment, and pen-testing. I work in varying capacities with Nessus, Snort, and the Open Source Vulnerability Database.
Whoopee. You must be so proud. The rest of us are scratching our heads, and wondering how to open the box
Not now ... (Score:2)
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:2)
I don't get why someone that's intelligent would reply to such a post. The article mentioned you're sensitive on the "chick hacker" topic, but is it such a reflex to respond to trolls and ignorant people when there are things more worth your time?
Since you talk about this on your webpage, I'll write my opinions here. It's greatly unfortunate the chauvinism in computer science/engineering and the world in general. And while I'm sure that has impact on women entering the field, I think that's minor compa
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:2)
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:3, Funny)
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh and also lose the name Raven (assuming that's a nickname). Is there something wrong or disturbing or embarrasing about your *shock* real name?
That's a very good point, Anonymous.
Re:She looks halfway decent at least (Score:2)
Re:THOSE FUCKS ARE NOT HACKERS !!! (Score:2, Redundant)
hacker n. [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rathe
Re:raven asking for stereotype (Score:3, Funny)
Re:crackers != hackers (Score:2)
Re:crackers != hackers (Score:2)
The problem here is that there are in fact two communities using these terms: there are the professional cybergeek types, who actually know something about the field, and there are the unwashed masses of the general public, who are blissfully ignorant. The Geeks distinguish between hacking and cracking; the great unwashed, however, could care less about the subtle-or-not distinction, and use one term fo