Sun Opens JDesktop Integration Components

Jahf writes "Sun has released the JDIC / JDesktop Integration Components API via the LGPL. The idea is to create a Java API that allows Java applications to better integrate with a modern desktop. It allows apps to embed a web browser component, access/launch desktop applications and associate filetypes. Documentation and demos are available and there is an incubator project (SaverBeans Screensaver) under way. Sun has been a proponent of developing desktop apps in Java, including a number of open source Java apps in the Java Desktop System and developing new ones for it as well (Java System Updater), and this appears to be a step towards making that goal a bit easier. I'm sure that every release of Java Desktop System (disclaimer: yes, I work on it) will continue to get the 'it has nothing to do with Java!' trolling since Sun is using GNOME as a desktop foundation (imagine what people would say if Sun created a 3rd environment in Java!) But those willing to step back and look at all facets (JDIC, Java Desktop System, Looking Glass previews, etc), hopefully others will see that Sun is getting more serious about making Java a platform for desktop developers."

Re:Trolling? JDS = GNOME = Mono = .NET on Linux

[I confirm I'm not a]

That's right I say:
JDS = GNOME = Mono = .NET on Linux

Almost:
(JDS = GNOME) != (Mono = .net on multiple platforms)

GNOME is written in C (C++?), Mono is an open implementation of .net that runs on multiple platforms (including GNOME, KDE, Solaris, Windows, etc, etc) One's a language, the other's a technology (virtual machine, languageS, etc)

...and, to be honest, JDS is like most distros: it's not just the Window Manager. But hey! Why let "facts" get in the way of a good troll!

Sun's Take

[Agret]

Is this Sun's take on WHATWG and XAML? I never really liked Java beacuse it runs so slow in the current virtual machines, with the annoucement that it may go open-source, and if it does, we may see better virtual machines and this technology they are developing now could be very good.

Re:Sun actually GPL'ing something?!!?

[theguywhosaid]

OpenOffice.org [openoffice.org]
deep down, Sun loves us

Misinformed

[vlad_petric]

Classpath itself is "already there". Classpath is slowly being merged into libgcj.

OTOH GCJ is far from replacing Sun's java (at least in terms of speed). To compile java properly you have to do some funky runtime optimizations (which sometimes even require un-optimizations!), something that the gcc infrastructure doesn't really allow. That's why you get considerably better running speeds with Sun's or IBM's JITs (although you do get better startup speeds with gcj)

Your wish shall be granted. :-)

[lokedhs]

Java's memory footprint is currently too large to allow numerous java programs of a moderate complexity (and size) to be running simultaneously on the desktop. Until Sun gets VM sharing going, we will not see Java attain a strong desktop presence.

I presume you mean something like this [sun.com]?

Re:My impressions

[Anonymous Coward]

Java Desktop is gnome with a new theme.

No, it's not. JDS is a Linux distro. It has a number of EMS tools, the J2RE, various non-free plugins (eg, media players), several desktop utilities written in Java, etc.

People who think JDS is just "GNOME" or "SuSe" haven't used it. It's a unique distro. Definitely has that "we are serious about this in corporate environments" feel.

Re:Always The Outcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Native widgets? I dunno, I wanna write a weird word processor and the Swing text system is the only thing I've found with the flexibility I need. Every little piece is out in the open, I can swap out the core storage model which has a minimal interface, and all the rest works on top of it. Swapping all that for the Windows Richtextbox just ain't gonna cut it.

Re: Buitiful desktop Java apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Java is getting much better on the desktop (FINALLY), but it is most definitely at its best on the server.

Why? Am using Java on the desktop every day, it's fine. Check out some Java apps screenshots [javalobby.org].

Not just Linux

[_damnit_]

Because it will not always be Linux underneath. Running the JDS just means you have a common set of apps, ui, libraries and java. It could soon be Solaris x86 underneath or a sparc version running on Sunrays (which I still think are cool).

Re:Still an abusive friend

[minniger]

Take a few min and read

man java

and

man jar

if you have the main-class set correctly in the manifest you can do:

java -jar yourjar.jar

if not then just do

java -cp yourjar.jar org.my.Main

where org.my.Main is the main class of your app.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that any non-trivial platform you want to use is going to take some time to learn. The JSDK has a TON of docs that come with it. Put some effort into it and read them. Esply the part on the jar tool.

wx4j: Native widgets via wxWidgets

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get native widgets in Java via wx4j [wx4j.org].

Heck, you can even compile the whole thing natively [wx4j.org].

Re:Still an abusive friend

[WinterSolstice]

Sounds like some fairly basic issues. Not hard to do a google search on. Of course, it should just be pinned on Java, right?

Java is about as intuitive to learn as MSVC... while the core language is simple, making a nifty little GUI work is not. It's easy to make a "hello world" jar that runs from the command line, but making an actual graphical applet that runs that way is quite a bit different.

-WS

Re:Always The Outcast

[Decaff]

Had Java used native widgets, it might fit in better.

Java can use native widgets easily: IBM's SWT toolkit does just that.

Had Java used widgets that didn't look like a throwback to Motif it might have been slightly better.

Then don't use these widgets. Use any of hundreds of Swing look and feels, or use versions of SWT that use GTK, or Windows, or Aqua.

Instead Java UIs tend to be a usability nightmare.

There is nothing intrinsic about a Java UI that is a usability problem. With any Java GUI you can design your own buttons, add your own accelerators, menus, colours, tooltips. I think you are confusing the bad design of some particular applications with what is potentially possible using a GUI toolkit. Its like saying that GTK is bad in general because you have seen some badly designed GTK apps.

Even Eclipse, which is far and away the best app I've seen in Java has nowhere near the visual polish as its GNOME, KDE, Aqua, or Win32 equivalents.

This does not make sense: Eclipse uses GTK, aqua and Win32. It uses those native widgets! Eclipse is a native GUI program.

Re:Good step forward, but...

[EndlessNameless]

[/obligatory Java GUI speed rant]

I could see (and agree with) the point about noticeablely slow app response times in 1998.

But now Joe Schmoe can get a 2.0+ GHz CPU with 256-512 MB of RAM with nearly 3 GB/s of usable memory bandwidth. Unless there are some really serious performance problems with a particular runtime environment, there is no reason for a Java app to run noticeably slower than an precompiled machine binary app in the language of your choice (barring serious number crunchers, of course... we're talking desktop apps here).

Processing capabilities have increased so much since the early 1990s that the overhead incurred by Java is negligible for newer systems. I think the biggest problem stemming from this initiative if it actually goes anywhere will be making sure that average users have a sufficiently up to date JRE.

Hell, my machine is slower than the latest and greatest speed demons, and I have no trouble with Java apps running slowly or consuming enough RAM/CPU/IO to make anything run slowly (except maybe when Azureus eats all of my bandwidth :) download cap implemented in 2.1.0.0 though).

Re:Java worms soon to come.

[Decaff]

How long before we start seeing Java worms? It's only a matter of time. How will we blame Microsoft for them? They'll be cross platform worms.

Nonsensical FUD.

Java has security manager features that have been tested and refined over a decade. Java was designed from the core to protect against such problems - every memory access and every class loaded is validated.

The only redeeming feature is that with the performance that Java provides, propogation of such worms will likely be a bit slower than the usual Windows type.

More FUD based on no evidence. Java has not been slow for years.

Re:Startup time

[khuber]

The client VM in JDK 1.5 shares system classes. There's a file that is just a memory dump of the internal class data structures, classes.jsa. All client VMs mmap that file.

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/vm/class -data-sharing.html [sun.com]

Re:Good step forward, but...

[Xaria]

Java is not necessarily slow. Badly coded Java can be, but Java itself tends to be quite fast. I know companies that are writing essential services with 5 9s reliability in Java because it's fast enough and a lot easier to maintain.

Benchmarks here:
http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCb enchmar k.html

Re:process model

[Will Sargent]

"process model for a long time"

It's called isolates, and it's supposed to be in Java 1.6: http://www.bitser.net/isolate-interest/

There's a proof of concept in KaffeOS.

Re:Startup time

[raduf]

I'm using Java 1.5 for several months now, and besides the new language feature goodies it also has shared [sun.com] memory between applications.

Now I can't say how much better swing has gotten since 1.4 because a dont' remember how good it used to be ;) but in 1.5 it's pretty good. No reason why I'd hesitate to do any UI in java anymore. It's way better than in 1.2 or 1.3, that's for sure.