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PHP Programming

Zend Taking PHP In the Wrong Direction? 155

Posted by Zonk from the php-it's-dynamite dept.
dvanatta writes "Is Zend taking PHP in the wrong direction? Ian Felton asks 'Why is PHP become more like Java, when the PHP developer community seems to want anything but that to happen? What is Zend thinking?'" From the article: "Data from a Zend survey completed in June 2003 (when PHP5 was still in major development) showed that the characteristics of the PHP community didn't necessarily match up with what was developed in PHP5. For example, with the ability to list three primary programming languages, only 18% of respondents named Java."
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Zend Taking PHP In the Wrong Direction? More

Zend Taking PHP In the Wrong Direction?

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  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @12:45PM (#11689601)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Informative)

      by drdink ( 77 ) *
      I believe the article is talking about the zoo of new OO features in PHP5. Unless you have or would like to have OO code, you really don't notice it other than some of the PHP internal functions being moved into classes. Take a look at the object oriented parts of the PHP Manual [php.net].

      • Re:I don't get it (Score:4, Interesting)

        by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @01:24PM (#11690072) Homepage Journal
        Unless you have or would like to have OO code, you really don't notice it other than some of the PHP internal functions being moved into classes.

        Yes, this article struck me as a relgious rant. For example:

        Zend has maneuvered PHP so that other companies who are in the enterprise software business consider it a legitimate language...

        Surely, this is a good thing for PHP users, at least for their employment prospects. In any case, it sounds to me like they're following the "make simple things simple, make complicated things possible" philosophy.

        WRT to Java, I'm not sure at all what the author's dislike of Java has to do with anything at all. It seems to me that having PHP as a presentation layer choice for hypertext processing in a Java system would also be a good thing.

    • Re:I don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ERJ ( 600451 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @02:16PM (#11690750)
      without stopping any browser for 15 seconds (java) while it does its thing.

      Just to clear up what seems to be a more common misconception then it should.

      The author of the article is not referring to client side java (applets) but instead to server side java (jsp, servlets, j2ee). Server side java returns html just like php, perl, asp it just uses java as the processing language.

    • Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Insightful)

      by eyeye ( 653962 )

      I use PHP across a whole bunch of websites, including version 5 - how is it anything like java? Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but all the 'old' scripts I have still work pretty good - without stopping any browser for 15 seconds (java) while it does its thing.


      Java is not only something that runs as an applet in your browser - its a programming language that can run server side too, ever heard of JSPs or tomcat?
      • What is your point? JSP is insanely slow compared to anything other than ColdFusion.
        • Bull. I've done a lot of PHP, and am currently doing a lot of Java (JSP, Servlets). Once the JSP is compiled for the first time, the response time is not noticably different than using PHP or Perl or anything else.

    • Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Insightful)

      by caseih ( 160668 )
      No you don't get it. When people say "java" they mean programming the web sites in java on the server, not using java in the browser. You probably have used many java-driven web sites without knowing it, since the java runs entirely on the server and simply serves up web pages. The arguement is over whether php's feature set is becoming too much like java and thus pushing us into java-style techniques and frameworks for app design.

    • Re:I don't get it (Score:2, Insightful)

      by CoolCat ( 594452 )
      How the hell does serverside java make your browser load for 15 seconds??
    • I don't get it either ....
      Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but all the 'old' scripts I have still work pretty good - without stopping any browser for 15 seconds (java) while it does its thing.

      How can a browser be stopped for 15 seconds when you use Java on the server, like PHP?

      Ah, you probably mean Java as Applet on a client?

      But .... Java on the client and PHP on the server? Thats not the same league, granted .... but IMHO its not even the same game.

      angel'o'sphere

    • Re:I don't get it (Score:2, Insightful)

      by chaves ( 824310 )
      how is it anything like java? Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but all the 'old' scripts I have still work pretty good - without stopping any browser for 15 seconds (java) while it does its thing

      Are you talking about Java applets (and the time the VM takes to be loaded by the browser)? Java applets play a *very* minor role in today's Java picture. Java is used much more often on the server side, running in the web server (generating web pages as PHP does), or in application servers (implementing business l

  • Bad writing (Score:5, Informative)

    by musselm ( 209468 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @12:47PM (#11689617)
    Come on..
    FTFLOTFA (From the first line of the ...):
    "Why is PHP become more like Java..."

    Give me a break. When this site links to articles as badly written as this one, it makes lots of people feel bad. Why can't devshed and other sites (including this one) do any damn proofreading or editing?

    Thanks!
    Andrew
    • The worst part was the What would Linus do? section. Apparently everybody now has to model their life and business model after Linus Torvalds.

    • Re:Bad writing (Score:3, Insightful)

      by drakethegreat ( 832715 )
      Exactly. For a good example, take spreadfirefox.com for instance. Currently there is an article about cnet's take on IE 7 and Firefox and Asa asks people to state their opinions for the media or others who might be reading this to get an idea about what the Mozilla Community is like. Well I was reading most the comments and every single one had a HUGE grammatical mistake. Now in most situations I don't proof read my comments such as a case like this but when someone tells me my comments will be read by a gr

    • Re:Bad writing (Score:3, Insightful)

      by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 ( 812236 )
      Because content is far more important than grammar.

      In any case, for those mistakes that have been corrected, you wouldn't know about them. It's only the mistakes that stand out, which skews the viewpoint.

      Humans are imperfect. Even Clippy can't help sometimes.
      • Because content is far more important than grammar.
        But good content with excellent grammar is far superior to so-so content with lame writing.

        In any case, for those mistakes that have been corrected, you wouldn't know about them. It's only the mistakes that stand out, which skews the viewpoint.
        But when mistakes stand out so boldly, it would stand to reason that more proofing/editing could have helped.

        Humans are imperfect. Even Clippy can't help sometimes.
        Aha! That explains it: Clippy is an e
        • But when mistakes stand out so boldly, it would stand to reason that more proofing/editing could have helped.
          I suppose it has to do with getting the stories out asap.

          Clippy is an editor for Devshed and Slashdot!
          If that were true, all news articles would be in the form of letters.
          • Clippy is an editor for Devshed and Slashdot!
            If that were true, all news articles would be in the form of letters.

            "It looks like you're trying to bitch about grammar on slashdot again! Do you want some help?"

            :)
      • Bad grammar interferes with content. When I read a malformed sentence like the one mentioned by the grandparent it's jarring. Having to stop and try to recreate the author's meaning completely disrupts the flow of the content. If it happens repeatedly I usually end up not even finishing the piece.

  • Popular direction != right direction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sfjoe ( 470510 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @12:47PM (#11689623)
    In the Zend survey, 93% of respondents listed PHP as a primary language and 69% listed HTML.

    People who think HTML is a programming language really have no business setting the direction of PHP.
    • My guess is that a lot of them are people who got into PHP because they ran a simple static site so they went to PHP to make it dynamic and they don't know what programming is. Thats my take but I wouldn't expect the php community (at least not the development part of it) to know what true programming is like. Well at least not a majority of it for sure.

      • Thats my take but I wouldn't expect the php community (at least not the development part of it) to know what true programming is like. Well at least not a majority of it for sure.

        I don't think categorizing a group of people's knowledge of programming based on a language they use is fair or in any way accurate. I know a lot of people who use a lot of different languages, including PHP. Just because someone uses PHP to create a dynamic webpage does not imply that they are not capable of writing incredibl


        • I don't think categorizing a group of people's knowledge of programming based on a language they use is fair or in any way accurate.
          Yo are right, but I dont think the post you refer to wanted that to imply. (The rest of your comment is quite fine as well)

          IMHO the poster ment: typical first step programmers (some guy with a computer and basic HTML knowledge) probably chooses PHP because he has heared it is dead simple.

          So, now consider one is writing a software to sell tickets for a collage sports stadiu

          • Are you trying to sell PHP? I'd label the first program "Ticketseller basic". If you want "Ticketseller Advanced" you'll have to pay me a lot more money. And with the experence I've gotten from writing the first program, the second one should be a snap.

            So, it looks like PHP is the gateway to riches, using your example.
          • IMHO the poster ment: typical first step programmers (some guy with a computer and basic HTML knowledge) probably chooses PHP because he has heared it is dead simple.

            Was that a mistake or an insult?


            • Was that a mistake or an insult?
              Neither nor.

              Should I read up the thread to see wether you allready said something and I probably missinterpreted you?

              Or is you question a more general one?

              Or do you think I insulted the imaginary guy who has chosen PHP?

              Or did you want to say *I* made a mistake? If so which?

              I don't get you I think :D

              angel'o'sphere
      • I used PHP for my dynamic site because Perl is a pain in the ass unless you're a perl programmer. JAVA? I had no interest in picking up a book because all the people I taking JAVA classes were saying "I just can't get my program to work!"

        I picked up a book on PHP and had functional website in 3 days. Took me a year to make it look good though...
    • Well, it's writing code to invoke a responce. So, in a way it's programming. But, yeah . . . .
    • I don't understand. PHP turns web pages into little programs. If you're not happy with that idea (I admit I'm not), why do you use PHP at all?
    • "In the Zend survey, 93% of respondents listed PHP as a primary language and 69% listed HTML."

      People who think HTML is a programming language really have no business setting the direction of PHP.

      The article says 93% listed it as a "primary language." Not, as a "primary programming language." You do know what the L in HTML stands for, don't you?
      • The article says 93% listed it as a "primary language." Not, as a "primary programming language."

        The article is addmittedly poorly written, however, they do use the phrase, "primary programming language". From the 4th paragraph:

        "For example, with the ability to list three primary programming languages, only 18% of respondents named Java. It was named a primary programming language, on average, 18 times out of 300 possible chances. "

        No, I don't know what the 'L' stands for. Please tell me.
      • IMHO there is a big difference between "language" and "programming language". And there is a reason its not HTPL instead of HTML, right?
      • I wonder why they didn't list XML or SGML? They have an 'L' in the end so they pass your programming language test unlike PHP, Java, C and several other so-called programming languages

  • I *like* the OO. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by drdink ( 77 ) * <smkelly+slashdot@zombie.org> on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @12:47PM (#11689627) Homepage
    This article was a bit vague on the survey used to justify the entire article. Who were the people surveyed? Are they just people throwing up private websites, or are they people designing applications and featureful sites in PHP? I have written and currently maintain a fairly large project that uses PHP5's OO features quite extensively. The object oriented features are what makes PHP5 so great. It is easy to design and reuse code. I look forward to it being extended and expanded, assuming it maintains compatibility.
    • Exactly... and just as importantly it's easy to not use them if you don't want to. PHP used to have a pretty clunky object model. They improved it. So?

    • Re:I *like* the OO. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by kawika ( 87069 )
      PHP is seductive because it does let relatively inexperienced users generate dynamic content without too much of a learning curve. But from the description you give I think you are part of a very small minority of PHP developers at the other end of the spectrum.

      My own PHP experience is more like this [ukuug.org]. Perhaps that's because I had come from Perl, and as this comparison [tnx.nl] makes clear the two certainly don't have the same ideas about how builtin functions should be designed.

      As it evolves, PHP isn't solving the

      • If you want to separate business logic from presentation, which is almost manditory on a large site, you will want some sort of templating package.

        Not really. It's perfectly acceptable to put business logic in included classes and simply use simple PHP embedded in the page to do nothing more than output the results of that business logic.

        You will have to write your own.

        You're kidding, right? That is flat-out wrong. There are loads of template engines freely available to everybody. Nobody h

      • One of the reasons PHP doesn't integrate their own logic for building templates is very simple; it's a programming language, not a content designer.

        PHP has done everything within their power to make it easy for anyone to build their own templating engine; They've made it so prints can be inlined, they've made it so it has great database access including support for a core database (SQLite), they've made it so error reporting can be customized and everything can be sugar coated as deeply as you want.

        Th

      • For example, PHP makes it trivially easy to insert dynamic content here and there into a page. If you want to separate business logic from presentation, which is almost manditory on a large site, you will want some sort of templating package. You will have to write your own. This is a common need, why shouldn't the core language address it? Because they are too busy reinventing object oriented programming?

        Because PHP is a templating package. You just have to have the discipline to use it as such instead o

      • I've never read the "PHP in Contrast to Perl" document before. Holy cow, I knew I hated PHP, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Thank you for this.

    • I have felt some of the extensions and expansions they have added do not improve the language at all. For example, to put the contents of a directory into an array in PHP5, I can do this:

      $files = scandir("/tmp");

      However, scandir() is only in PHP5, so in older versions I must do this:

      $dir = opendir("/tmp");
      while (false !== ($filename = readdir($dir))) $files[] = $filename;
      sort($files);

      And to ensure backwards-compatibility I would have to check if scandir is a function and use the right method. Or I could

      • So? You will get this with any language, product, or service that evolves over time and adds features. You either say "My app only works with PHP5 and newer" or you support older PHP through compatibility tests. This is what programming is all about.

    • They survey was open to public a few months ago. There were no requirements to participate. I guess anyone seeking around the PHP world at that time could have participated. Are the results representative? Maybe.

      With a better object model, PHP 5 does not only bring the capacity to do OOP, but also to have better interactions with other OO libraries and languages. Interoperability really is the keyword to remember for PHP's future and Zend is putting a lot of efforts that way. Other than the object model

  • Zend wants to make money? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ieshan ( 409693 ) <ieshan@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @01:05PM (#11689825) Homepage Journal
    I'm always puzzled by technology "insiders" writing about groups that are "destroying products" that "mainstream developers" want to use.

    Reality check: "Mainstream developers" are people who a) pay nothing to use the software and b) have no product alliegiance whatsoever.

    People are using PHP because it's useful and it's free. But being free doesn't help Zend in any way. They're changing the direction of the product slowly so that they'll eventually make some profit off of either PHP itself or PHP-addons using their server language / server engine.

    My Philosophy: Unless you're paying for a product, or actively developing for the product, don't bitch when the people who *do* need money because they're the ones making the product decide they want to change it.

    By the way, I use PHP quite a bit, and haven't really noticed that much of a difference from PHP4 to PHP5. Some small things, but nothing earth shattering.

  • Some points... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cmad_x ( 723313 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @01:09PM (#11689872)
    In the Zend survey, 93% of respondents listed PHP as a primary language and
    69% listed HTML.

    Since when is HTML a programming language?

    why would they put so much effort into making PHP a
    complex, object-modeled language

    I haven't written anything in PHP5 yet, but from what I've seen, I wouldn't call it "complex". If they find it "complex", they should just stick to HTML.

    As a matter of fact, 85% of PHP users were running Windows
    as their desktop operating system.

    Yeah, they may run Windows as their desktop OS, but that doesn't stand for anything. Sure, they might usually check out their newest scripts in their desktop, but they all pretty much end up in their server, which is probably running some *NIX.

    A hypertext preprocessor doesn't require an object model as complex as Java, especially when hardly any members of the community use Java

    So? As long as the engine doesn't become slow or very resource hungry, more features are always welcome; the new OO model might help someone write better (e.g. cleaner) PHP code. If you don't like the new OO model, then just don't use it.

    What would Linus do?

    What does Linus have to do with PHP? Why would be care what Linus would do, seriously? Also, about that section mentioning all Zend people driving fancy cars and stuff, and the company trying to profit. Of course it's trying to profit; it's a company! I don't know of any companies that don't have profit in mind. They make a good engine, so PHP is based on it. Are you telling me that that shouldn't have happened because Zend is a company? Think again..

    My $0.02

    • Re:Some points... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by T-Ranger ( 10520 ) <jeffw@cheMENCKENbucto.ns.ca minus author> on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @05:07PM (#11692820) Homepage
      HTML == Hypertext Markup Language
      The question diddnt ask for "primary programming language" it asked for "primary language". There are (apparently, from the survey) pleanty of web designers whose primary langage is HTML who use PHP. Or, there are pleanty of PHP users whose primary system is HTML. The point is that a large chunk of the userbase of PHP are not "programmers", but web developers. Making PHP more like Java makes PHP easier to pick up and use for Java developers. Which is great, if you a Java developer, but most of the PHP users are first HTML hackers.
    • Since when is HTML a programming language?

      Actually, it is a non-touring complete declarative language [liv.ac.uk]. Not all languages need imperative style execution of the code from start to finish.

  • What's with the hate.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sporty ( 27564 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @01:14PM (#11689927) Homepage
    People hate java 'cause it's overly verbose, but complain that languages like perl look like line noise.


    People hate OOP, but complain about organization of code.


    People hate writing the same things over an dover again themselves, but java has APIs for lots of things, so you don't have to do so.


    So php is being pushed into an OOP direction, not a clean implementation, the APIs are being provided, ugly as they may be, and things were never unverbose/cryptic... so what's the problem again?

    • I nice choice is python. Really easy to learn, really powerfull, runs on jvm (jython), has extremely powerfull web development tools (zope & plone, that's what I'm using, but there are more), is a general purpose language, meaning you won't get stuck to just webdevelopment, and is "mainstream" enough to have bindings to any major library.

      I love it, so I fully recommend it. Actually, I was programming PHP for my websites until I've realized that my knowledge and experience of PHP will not be usefull in
      • While I appreciate the value of Python, I would hate having to use it. I'm not fond of indent based block languages. Space-to-tab conversions would drive me nuts. :) But hey, if you like it, more power to you.


        osCommerce has some ugly code if you are hunting.


        Ruby all the way. Or perl. Or java. ;)

    • So php is being pushed into an OOP direction

      That's just it - it isn't. PHP has made significant improvements to their object model in the 4.x and 5.x versions for those people that choose to use it. Everybody who doesn't like object-oriented programming can simply carry on using their own style and it doesn't affect them at all.

  • PHP programmers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by InsaneCreator ( 209742 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @01:15PM (#11689956)
    Why is PHP become more like Java, when the PHP developer community seems to want anything but that to happen?

    That's because most of the PHP programmers are uneducated writers of throw-away code. They are people who use PHP because they can make dynamic pages without needing to really learn anything; people who mix HTML and SQL; people who never bother to check for errors; people who think register_globals was a great idea, because they didn't have to type "complicated statements" like echo $_POST['somevar']; and the list goes on and on.

    The most common argument I hear against PHP becoming more like Java is that now there are so many new things you need to learn. But this is not due to changes in the language making it harder to write crappy code - that's just as easy as it was before. The main reason for needing to learn new stuff seems to be the increasing number of competent programers in the PHP community who put pressure on the incompetent ones, who in turn pound their little fists on the table and cry that PHP is acquiring too many features from other languages. I'm sorry, but knowing the difference between "if" and "for" statements does not make you a programmer.

    Ripping off Java is probbably the only real chance for PHP to be taken more seriously in the business world. After all, it worked for C#. ;-)

  • Zend broke latest version of PHP (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @01:31PM (#11690162)
    When we upgraded to the latest version of PHP, which also required a Zend upgrade, several of our applications wouldn't work. I have reason to believe there's a serious bug [php.net] in the Zend engine which has crippled some functionality of PHP. We're still waiting for a fix so we can upgrade to a more secure version of PHP.
    • That looks like a minor bug to me, and one that could be worked around by writing your own replacement for extract(), at least until the bug is fixed. What is insecure about PHP 4.3.10?
      • I'm using extract to make all global variables accessible from within a function in PHP. If you know a way of doing this without using extract() (and not having to keep track of what globals are defined), I'm all ears!

        I have an application that requires a function to access globals as if it were not local. I wish there was some easy way to do that, but I have not found any.

  • Something to consider (Score:5, Funny)

    by Laxitive ( 10360 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @01:53PM (#11690484) Journal

    If a piece of shit flies west at 60 miles per hour, is it going in the wrong direction?

    -Laxitive

  • The Driving Force (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ridgelift ( 228977 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @02:12PM (#11690716)
    If such a small number of PHP users were involved with Java, what was the motivation to mimic Java's object model and move toward making PHP coupled to Java?

    The Answer: MONEY.

    PHP has become popular because it's easy to get started. Just cut and paste some scrap code in your HTML and you're in business. However, that same approach to building the language has led to a rat's nest of functions, without a whole lot of consistency. Although PHP's got one of the best documentations free on the web, in the long run if you scale your applications up you're going to need to put in a lot more elbow grease to make changes and maintain your code. Zend will be creating a market where maturing web applications will need the performance gains of their products.

    So what's the alternative? I've been learning Ruby and the webframe work Ruby on Rails after reading a recent /. article [slashdot.org]. I'd be lying if I said it's been easy to learn. It hasn't. I'm not used to object oriented programming, and Ruby is pure OO. But even I can see at this stage of the game that Rails apps will be far easier to develop, maintain and make changes than similar code in Java or PHP. Rails still has performance hurdles to get over, but it's developing so fast that I'm sure it will match Java & PHP's speed (the framework's only been around for less than a year). Because Rails takes full advantage of the Ruby language, it's not something that will be ported to PHP or Java.

    "Give 'em the razor, then sell 'em the blades" That's PHP and Java. Magically remove facial hair so you never have to shave again, that's Ruby and Ruby on Rails.
    • Is there really that much of a chance that Zend will offend enough PHP'ers that this could be a big boost for Ruby on Rails or any other open source alternative to PHP?

      Also, would it be accurate to presume that ASP.NET on MONO is not something of interest to PHP developers, but more of an alternative to J2EE folks?
    • "Give 'em the razor, then sell 'em the blades" That's PHP and Java. Magically remove facial hair so you never have to shave again, that's Ruby and Ruby on Rails.

      I for one do not want to program in a language that feels like having my beard waxed ;-)

      (I am about to take a look at ROR myself, but your analogy made me cringe and cover my face with my hands.)
      • [quote] (I am about to take a look at ROR myself, but your analogy made me cringe and cover my face with my hands.) [/quote]

        Quite the contrary with me! I was like "Thought so, now I know I'm switching". And I believe you missed the point. It is not about a waxing procedure (that would be nothing but an advanced PHP solution).

        Ruby is a genetherapy, that makes sure, you will never have to shave again, by removing the folicals from the facial area. The best, you can even choose, if you want to keep the h
    • PHP has become popular because it's easy to get started. Just cut and paste some scrap code in your HTML and you're in business.

      You could not be closer to the truth.

      Recently, our proffesionally paid VB programmer turned PHP wannabe copied and pasted the XML parser samples from php.net into our supposedly proffesional product. Needless to say, it got past QA, clients started using it. When they added additional XML entities not tested by QA, the Web Server crashed (this is an embedded Linux Box).

      When I
    • "Give 'em the razor, then sell 'em the blades" That's PHP and Java.

      Except there are free [php.net] alterantives [eaccelerator.net] to Zend's products.

      Of course Zend is trying to make money. They're a company. Companies exist to create products and make money. Do you get on MySQL AB's case for selling commercial licenses?
  • i used to be big into php4, i used it as my primary programming language for over 4 years. i don't like where zend is taking the language and have never used nor am i interested in 5. instead of making the language better they're just adding more junk onto it.

  • FUD (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gabe ( 6734 ) on Wednesday February 16, 2005 @05:31PM (#11693096) Homepage Journal
    This article is FUD, pure and simple.

    Everything added in PHP 5 has no effect at all on the casual or professional PHP programmer. They can go about writing their code exactly as they did with PHP 4, and PHP 3. That's because the PHP Group (the folks that develop the PHP product, not Zend) work very diligently (to some peoples' dismay) on ensuring as much backwards compatibility as possible.

    All of the (very useful) OOP technology added in PHP 5 will help to push PHP into the enterprise market and allow business to build large apps using PHP. It's certainly not everything the enterprise will need, but it's a start. NONE of these additions make it any more complex for a PHP 4 user. ALL of the additions help make it possible to create well-designed web applications, though.

    I used to have some respect for devshed.com because they always had interesting articles. The articles were a useful resource and quite helpful. I just don't understand why they're posting whining rants like this which do not help anyone in any way. Let this guy post it on his blog and be ignored like he should be.

    Sadly, this is not the first time [devshed.com] Mr. Felton has written an article like this.

    • Re:FUD (Score:2)

      by Xenna ( 37238 )
      Diligently?

      Explain how adding a 'replace' parameter to the header() function from one version to another and making it default TRUE (when it used to be implicitly FALSE) is *not* going to break scripts that depend on consistent behaviour?

      Well, hopefully they learned since then, but for me each PHP upgrade remains a little scary...

      It's also not really pleasant to have your scripts dependent on the correct settings of php.ini.
  • I write PHP for a living, and started out as a basically 100% incompetent scripter who just knew HTML. I took a couple of programming classes at a community college (including a Java class) and then leveraged my minimal programming training to use PHP to do useful things with my weblog.

    I went from being able to hardly even be able to put together a minimal Java program, to being able to do a huge amount in PHP. It was great, I got to write little referrer aggregators and blog quizzes, I even used registe

  • The one thing that I think PHP needs is optional typing and type checking (like Visual Basic on Objective C) and a consistent exception model (right now only PHP5 classes throw exceptions (the rest just make errors or return false), and there is no way to automatically turn all of the old PHP error situations into handlable exceptions (heck, even a single PHPException type would work!).

    PHP is at a crossroads, and the best way to go is to an optional strict typing and exception handling approach such as the
  • I have to say it: This guy makes some valid points. There, I feel better now. Seriously, while I don't agree entirely with his article (not by a long shot), I also don't agree with any of the posts so far either (which could all be summed up as "he disagrees with us, don't listen to him!").

    He makes very valid points about PHP's current weak points, which no one actually responded to in their comments, especially his mention of Unicode support. Proper date support is another biggie. A unified DB abstrac

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