Zimbra Collaboration Suite Launched

commonchaos writes "Recently a company named Zimbra has come out of nowhere and released an open source Exchange replacement. The exciting part is a front end that uses AJAX. There is an impressive flash demo, you can download the source or try out a "live" version of the code yourself." Interestingly, this open source system seems to be very similar to the recent Yahoo announcement covered on Slashdot.

Re:What is the merit of replacing an Exchange serv

[Mustang Matt]

"but I'm wondering what the benefits will be if I move away from Exchange"

For one thing $$$ in future licensing fees.

Requires it's own server for everything

[Leknor]

My beef with Zimbra is it requires you to use their own mail server. Yes it has IMAP/POP interfaces for clients to connect to, but you cannot simply point it at your existing mail server. It's really only suitable for small or new sites.

Stop hammering the site!

[Per Wigren]

I want to check it out also.. :(

Use coral cache instead!
Flash Demo [nyud.net]
Zimbra homepage [nyud.net]

Why, oh why can't Slashdot always link to coral cache instead of keep on killing servers?

Re:What is the merit of replacing an Exchange serv

[Jeffrey Baker]

Don't take this as advice, because I don't know your mail setup. That said if you need a "farm" of computers to run your mail and your company has fewer than 100,000 employees, I think the benefit of moving off Exchange should be obvious: you wouldn't need the farm any more. Exchange's hardware requirements are 10-100x more demanding than an equally-functional setup using, for example, sendmail and dovecot. Even extremely large configuration can be run off a pair of Linux machines, and the second is only needed for redundancy. When provisioned with sufficient storage, your basic x86 Linux computer can handle huge mail loads. Think of the savings in terms of rack space, power, and cooling alone!

If you were moving to a newer Exchange you already know the hidden costs: software for managing Active Directory quirks (from CA or whomever), special backup software that interfaces properly with exchange (possibly licensed per mailbox) and so forth. With the usual Linux setups you would backup mail the same way you backup anything else: with an LVM snapshot.

Re:Requires it's own server for everything

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you are confused. They aren't trying to make a web front end that works with any mailserver. Their ajax app seems to only be 1 piece of the puzzle. It looks like (from their forums) they have a fully functional server AND multiple access mechanism (wireless, outlook, web, etc).

We are deploying this now

[davejenkins]

I was quoted in the eWeek article [eweek.com] for this launch. We have been testing this for a few weeks now, and like what we see so far. There is no way in Hell I am letting MS Exchange in here.

The really cool part we see in Zimbra is the possibilities to program our own magic phrases, so everytime someone puts in an Order#, SKU, Invoice# or some other keyword, Zimbra will pick up on it, and link it directly into our ERP.

Zimbra shows a lot of promise--

OpenGroupware.org is very interesting as well

[linuxguy]

It may not have the fancy Javascripted front-end but it is certainly loaded with useful features for groups of people working together.

Contacts, Calendar, Email, File repository using WebDav (Files are version controlled) and more.

Sadly...

[misleb]

Unfortunately I don't see this taking off. I installed Zimbra and tried it out myself and it is just too slow. The interface looks really good for a web application, but it is dog slow and very unresponsive to user actions. I can't imagine anyone using the web interface as the primary way of using Zimbra. If Zimbra ever takes off, it is going to need smooth Outlook/Entourage/Evolution integration.

Furthermore, I think this is a good as web applications are going to get. Lets face it people, HTML and web browsers are just not made to run desktop style applications. AJAX is really cool, but the simple fact is that HTML lacks the most basic tools to build a good GUI. The document model just doesn't work for sophisticated applications.

-matthew

Re:What is the merit of replacing an Exchange serv

[rduke15]

I can give you the reasons why I moved away from Exchange. Others may have different reasons, and others may have good reasons to stay with Exchange. Anyway, this is my own example.

In a small (but growing) business of a dozen employees, an old NT server SBS edition with Exchange 5.5 needed to be replaced. I decided to go with a Linux server.

On the Exchange side, what I didn't like was:

1. all email is in a proprietary database, in a single (huge!) file. If something goes wrong with that file (as it once did), it's a nightmare to bring it back up, if it works at all. If you can't repair it, you loose anything that came in after the last backup.

2. speaking of backups, Exchange needs special Exchange-aware backup programs. You cannot just copy the files.

3. Lack of flexibility in handling of incoming mail, spam filtering, forwarding, etc.

4. No ssh access for quick and easy remote administration.

5. No simple text-file based configuration, meaning no grep or such to find some setting. You have to move around all the menus if you cannot remember where a setting was.

6. It is hard to move away from proprietary solutions like Exchange because you cannot just copy files and hand them over to another application. That's a good reason to do it rather sooner than later when it may become harder yet. It was not easy to move mailboxes from Exchange to IMAP.

So in the new setup, I used Postfix and Courier IMAP:

1. very easy and very flexible and powerful configuration

2. all configuration through simple text files which can be grep-ed, compared, backed-up, whatever.

3. simple backups through plain file copies or rsync

4. every mail is in it's own plain text file. Can be grep-ed, and if a file goes corrupt (didn't happen yet), it is only that single email.

5. easy administration. For example, I didn't implement quotas, but I'm considering setting up a little script that would check for the size of the maildirs and of single huge files, and send a little email to the users. Like "you are using up 1 GB for emails; please consider removing unnecessary stuff" or "Would you please check if you still need the 50 10 MB files in you mailbox". I can easily add a summary of the huge mails so the user knows which ones they are.

5. easy migration. If I ever decide I would like to replace Postfix or Courier with some other program, it's no problem. I'm not locked in the current programs. Not that I would want to move to other programs. I'm very happy with this setup. But I like to be sure I can if I ever wish to.

This has been running reliably for 6 months now, and I'm a very happy mail admin.

The users have only one complaint: they cannot set up an Out of Office auto-responder like they could on Exchange. I thought that was good, and tried to explain why auto-responders range between useless and evil, but had no success. They want it anyway. So I'm setting up vacation in their .forward files when needed, and looking for a good web interface so they can do it themselves. The Webmin interface I tried didn't work well, so I'm still looking, and may have to work on the Webmin module myself.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

XUL webmail

[blackhaze]

If you like XUL, checkout @mail - http://atmail.com/ [atmail.com] - A native 'Outlook' killer via the Web - XUL/Mozilla based, with another interface for IE/other-clients.

Neat IMHO!

Re:What is the merit of replacing an Exchange serv

[Linker3000]

If Squirrelmail (WebMail) fits into your config then there is an 'out-of-office' module that can be installed to allow users to manage the vacation functionality for themselves.

Re:Requires it's own server for everything

[bernywork]

My experience with Maximizer is that it's not worth the hassles associated with it.

Any other solution, a paper folder on a desk with a bunch of business cards in it is better than maximizer.

We had stability problems, issues getting support and the UI was not very intuitive at all ...

Overall, it was decided that the old system was better and that they would go back after god knows how much money they spent on training and everything else.

Re:What is the merit of replacing an Exchange serv

[tzanger]

Why I moved off of Exchanve Server -- I wanted my data in open formats and out of the "black box" that Exchange Server is. We moved to Exchange4Linux [exchange4linux.com], which stores everything (and I mean everything) in a PostgreSQL database (18G and growing). SMTP is whatever you want, but Postfix is what they recommend. I've tried practically every Exchange replacement out there (SLES/SLOX, OpenExchange, a plethora of web-based crap, Bynari, Steltor (now Oracle's) CorporateTime, Hitachi's solution, etc., etc.) and this one is the (clear) winner in my eyes. The entire thing is written in Python, including the Outlook connector, and everything but the connector is open-source. (Outlook connectors are EUR$50/seat with discounts for volume). We still run Outlook on the desktops since that is the user interface and many here still want it, but as far as the backend is concerned, I couldn't be happier now. There is something just plain cool about being able to run arbitrary SQL queries over all of the company's emails, contacts, todos, journals, you name it... We have it tying in to our Asterisk [asterisk.org] PBX as well so, for example, the service guy who's on call gets the emergency page. The service department just maintains their Pager Calendar and I do a lookup to see who's on duty.

E4L isn't without its warts (the IMAP server is still in early development, no POP or LDAP yet), but being Open Source and also being in active development, these get polished or cut out (as necessary) in time. And I can add/change the system and get my changes contributed back. I don't have to worry about where my data went to or if the system ever crashes how to recover the data. If some weird-ass situation comes up and I need to correlate my data in some unforseen way... well now I can, and I don't need some kind of screwed-up and possibly commercial API to get it done. And most importantly for me, I don't have to worry about the system changing or being eliminated due to some other company's paradigm shift.

Re:What is the merit of replacing an Exchange serv

[Doc Ruby]

I prefer Open-Xchange [open-xchange.org] to the MS product. The OX architecture runs Java servlets against a Postgres RDBMS. Adding features is a matter of installing new servlets. Dropping unnecessary features is a matter of tinkering with the open source. It integrates with my existing "Contacts" servers with LDAP, my existing SMTP/IMAP/POP servers, Apache. I integrated my own services by running other servers, like my streaming server, against the LDAPd for authentication and Postgres for metadata. Every service is scalable, in clusters, even geographically.

Oh, and MS Exchange sucks. Especially its data stores, with its impenetrable schema and flatfile legacy. OX doesn't suck like that, and I (or someone I hire, or someone checking their changes into CVS) can fix anything I don't like. OX doesn't lock me into any other specific SW: every component (server or client) has alternatives. Get rid of MS Exchange, and get behind the OX.

Re:"The leader in open source collaboration"?

[ndixon]

http://www.zimbra.com/flash_demo/zimbra_player_no_ flash.gif [zimbra.com]

a 303KB 900x675 GIF (with no alt tag) to tell me I need to download the Flash plugin.

That'll impress the folks on dial-up.

Server software

[aaronl]

For free software, you have OpenGroupware, Horde, and the just mentioned Zimbra. They will all provide the functionality that Exchange does. I'm sure there are others, too.

For commercial alternative designs, you have Novell GroupWise and Lotus Notes. There are others, but I am familiar with those.

For commercial Exchange compatible, you have OpenXchange and openmail. Again, there are very likely others.

I can't think of any free software Exchange compatible server platforms. Personally, my research was targetted at being able to do email, group calendars, and contact lists. I wanted to do so without touching Outlook, and without requiring Windows Server.

All of the platforms that I've mentioned are less expensive in licensing than Exchange/Outlook are. Some of them require more expertise to set up well, like Notes, and all of them will run without Windows. I can't vouch from experience for the reliability of the open source software, but all of the commercial software is *very* reliable.

Perhaps other people can fill in even more info?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Want something different from exchange

[horza]

I was waiting for someone to mention Hula. And I'm waiting for Hula to support caldav. Hula is a dream to set up and administer. It's been rock solid for me, and soon will have an AJAX webmail interface. As soon as I can use caldav with Sunbird then I can ditch using remote calendars via webdav and rely on Hula completely.

Phillip.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

RTFA - Dig a little deeper before you post!

[Whatchamacallit]

I've been pouring over the site for a while now. Very very interesting stuff, this Zimbra...

If you actually look at the details, it's a Linux based (Red Hat RPM distro at the moment) that appears to be the absolute best web email system I've seen to date. AJAX is only a very small part of what Zimbra does. AJAX simply improves the end user browser experience by making it feel more like a local application and less like a web app. AJAX allows for page updates without reloading the whole page so it can add features like drag and drop, right-clicking context menus, live searches, etc. i.e. faster instant feedback much more like a native app.

The person behind the site is the former CTO of BEA Systems (WebLogic). He wanted a better email system that was available anywhere. Grouping of discussion threads, saved searches (like Mac OS Tiger), etc. What this group has come up with is pretty darn interesting and if it's well designed will only get better.

The geek reading Slashdot ought to go read the Admin Guide available from Downloads_Documentation_Admin Guide (PDF or HTML). There are some real nice technical explanations not found in the marketing flash demo!
Before you continue to bash it, go check out the technical details while keeping in mind that it's new and will be improved as time moves forward. Linux, Apache Tomcat, PostFix, MySQL, OpenLDAP, SMTP, LMTP, SOAP, XML, IMAP, POP, and AJAX. You can connect with IMAP and POP clients! This means you might be able to connect via IMAP with OS X Mail.app which supports much of the threading, sorting and search features not found in Outlook. iCal can use the calendar system. Addressbook can connect to the LDAP directory for GAL entries. Pretty darn slick! Zimbra has certainly gotten my attention. If you have to you could use Outlook, but I would rather use the web interface then use Outlook! Ugh...

Should be interesting if someone decides to do the same thing in Ruby On Rails! Might be easier to build and maintain and thus faster to market with new features. Same technology except substituting Java and Tomcat for Ruby, the Rails API, plus Lighttpd & FCGI. Go take a look at Basecamp, Backpack, and Ta-da List and you can see that http://www.37signals.com/ [37signals.com] could easily build a similar system to Zimbra and make it sing! Or course the 37signals way of things is to host it for you and you subscribe to it. Zimbra is meant to be installed by your geeks with a support contract to Zimbra and consulting available. There also TextDrive's Strongspace Ruby on Rails app http://strongspace.com/ [strongspace.com]. There is going to be an explosion of such applications being refreshed by AJAX powered feedback. AJAX is exciting as it can greatly improve the user experience. But that's all it does, the backend geekness is where the real fun begins. Whether it's Java or RoR things are going to start changing. Get ready for Web 2.0 without the Web 1.0 hype and dotbomb! You must have a viable business model to succeed with Web 2.0!