Nattfodd writes "Almost two months after the projects, deadline, partial (but fairly complete) results of Google Summer of Code are here. The completion rate of projects (and thus payment of the students) was approximately 90%, which would certainly qualify for a 'huge success' of the operation. Summer of Code paid more than 400 students of 49 countries to spend their summer helping open-source projects, 4500$ on completion. Now we just have to wait for the T-shirts..."
by Anonymous Coward
on Tuesday October 25 2005, @04:23PM (#13875579)
Its a nice thing for Google to try to do, but who were they really targeting at that pay range? A decent summer internship in CS pays 2-4 times that much.
Students who like deciding their own work hours Students who want to get a full time job with Google Students who are interested in the type of projects that Google has available
I'm doing a 6 month internship right now. I'll net $17,000. If it was only a summer thing, I'd be getting around $9,800. This is in addition to full benefits, and up to 7% of my pay matched when I purchase stock. Honestly, this isn't even with a tech company; they just pay IT interns really well.
How are these programmers immortalized? I mean, beyond placing that on a resume. Does Google use this as a sort of co-op system for hiring future talent?
Well, obviously Google will now be paying teachers to have future generations of school children memorize and recite by heart the complete list of contributing programmers!
We cannot allow the names of these brave souls who laboured so hard for several months to be lost in the sands of time. Their memory shall be passed on from generation to generation for time immortal.
You should have done like the winners did - use google to cheat.
VB means you must have cheated using MSN Search, not Google Search! You might as well have told them you're going dressed up as Steve Balmer for Hallowe'en (don't forget the chair:-)
... depends on what part of the world you're in...
Also, when is the last time you SAID "dollars forty-five hundred"? Of course, if you're going around as Yoda on Hallowe'en, "dollars forty-five hundred" might just be the way you'd speak...
I scanned through the list and am intrigued by the demographics. I was surprised that there weren't a few more women. I always knew that programming was dominated by men, but I didn't realize it would be that far skewed. The shop I work in is primarily COBOL and we have a good percentage of women working here. Perhaps that skewed my perception.
Have you ever been involved in a CS or Computer Engineering program at a University? It varies, of course, but when I went to school for Computer Engineering in 1995, there was ONE woman in the entire department. From hanging out in the CS building, it seemed like they were easily 95% men too. There has been a lot of effort recently to try and get more girls interested in math and science in the pre-college years, but there has only been limited success. There remains a tremendous disparity in the number
I'm a senior in computer science at a university that has a total of 17000 students. I'm also the only female student in my graduating class.
Conservatively, I'd say there are maybe 7 other female students in CS who've made it to their junior year. CS loses 99% of female students, and it's half way through the semester, so we may have lost a couple more. For a little perspective... there are over 100 guys in their junior or senior year.
I don't understand it. I mean, who wouldn't want to spend their entire scholastic career surrounded by a collection of the geekiest men the university has to offer?
And with the exception of one job, I've always been the only woman on the programming team. I even had an employer ask me if I was okay with being the only woman. My response: "And this differs from the past 10 years how?"
At college most of the women went into chemical engineering, or varients (geological, biological, and there was one other which I can't remember). I don't know why more women don't care to program, but low stats for women doesn't surprise me a bit.
You just had to complete a project during the summer. It doesn't mean you've worked 40 hours on it. You simply had to meet the deliverable. Some people got paid considerably more than 9.30$/hour, and have a much better experience to put on their CV than "flipped burgers for 4 months".
Math may not lie, but people can misrepresent what's going on.
Google didn't pay these people anything. Rather, it provided grants/scholarships to people interested in working on open source code. People (coders and/or organizations) submitted proposals for ideas they wanted to work on, and Google selected some worthy ones that they would give extra money to, so as to encourage students to spend time doing some open-source coding.
Google was not hiring these people to work on specific projects that get added to the portfolio of Google products. Everyone involved could have turned down the grant money if they had a better offer. But for these students, who would have likely worked on these (or other) open-source projects over the summer anyway (to bolster their CV and/or because it's fun), the grant was probably a welcome bonus.
Everyone benefits from the open-source software that has been produced by these (partially funded) volunteers. Remember that the people working on these projects were contributing to open-source projects that are, by and large, non-commercial. That is, the summer-of-code people got $4500, whereas everyone else working on the project got $0. They are doing it because they want to. It is not a (traditional) job.
So the average GSoC participant worked on their project 40 hours a week? Can I see where you got these statistics please? Even if you're right...
$9/hr is 75% (thats (9.00-5.15)/5.15*100% ) increase over minimum wage. Maybe to you that is "scant" more than minimum wage. But to someone who's never had a job or has only had minimum wage type jobs, it's not scant at all.
You say mathematics don't lie. However, I fail to see you actaully use any mathematics to prove your point.
Where else can you earn $9.30/hour for contributing to an open source project? And who benefits from it? Why should google pay them more than $9.30 an hour when there are no other offers on the table?
On the off chance that you're not a troll, I'll respond here. The point here is that software programming is more complex than flipping burgers.
No, the point is that flipping burgers for a fast-food chain is in no way comparable to being paid to do something you would already be doing, rather than having to give up that thing you love to go work in a fast-food joint.
It is an insult that they even throw a paltry couple thousand at these guys who are doing real, complex engineering of software.
It's amazing that google gives away 2 million dollars to benefit the open source community and you complain because it wasn't enough.
The Summer of Code wasn't a job. Google did not higher people to write code for them and play them only $9/hour.
Google instead offered students a chance to do some work with real OSS applications and to work with people who have experience developing with the OSS applications. They also gave each person who finished their project $4500 and $500 to the mentor (I think the m
How many McDonald's workers get to work on a project of their chosing, on the hours of their choice, having control of how they do it and not having a high-strung highschool dropout bitching about drive-through time averages being 5s over the target time?
That's 5 times what a farmer makes playing WoW. For someone with the necessary skills outside North America that would be a decent amount of money. Plus, this is something that a person could use to supplement an existing job by working on it in their off hours.
Not everyone needs to make 100k a year for SUV payments and cable.
India GDP per capita $480 Unemployment rate 8.8% Labor force 406 million Population below the poverty line 25% Typical salary for a programmer $8,000 year = $4.16 an hour
Bull. There was no requirement to work all summer long. I did about 3 weeks of full time work.
$4500/120 = $37.50/hour. I'd say I'm happy with that. The trick was to come up with an innovative idea that didn't require too much coding. Of course if your proposal was to write a MS Windows clone in COBOL then you've got other problems.
Ivan Barrera A, Chile: Bandwidth Limiter For Apache - When a user starts downloading something, the data goes through the mod. If there is a bandwidth limit, then the mod will start "splitting" the data into smaller pieces. Then it will start sending each piece with a small delay (less than 1 sec) between each piece, thus, reducing the speed the user downloads. This is useful for small web-hosting servers with limited outbound bandwidth (i.e. ADSLs customers).
I don't even have that limited of bandwidth and I would like to see this mod in production. Very needed code IMHO.
csaba, Hungary - Fuse / BSD / Network mount via SSH
This is what I have been waiting for since the dawn of time. Well, not that long, but I have always wondered when I would be able to mount remote file systems via secure shell.
The list of projects says "Please note that this page contains a sampling and not a complete listing of the projects done as part of the Summer of Code."
The MozDev (related to Mozilla / Firefox) projects missing from the list are:
*don't feed the trolls, don't feed the trolls*... bah. I'll bite and reply.
If you remember anything about the article from 6 weeks ago that you posted a link to, then you would remember that it was extremely thin as far as details went. Did you look at many of the projects when it was "officially over"? If you had, you would remember that a quite a number of them hadn't turned in their final versions yet, nor had they turned in their final reports (and if they had finished/turned in the report, then it wasn't available yet for public access, it had only been turned into their project supervisors).
If you went to college, then maybe you remember that college students have a "habit" of turning stuff in at or after the deadline? The SOC was no different. That's why you don't get your grade results until a week or two *after* it's over. It takes time to figure out what-the-heck-happened during the flurry that was the deadline.
You would have preferred this in a slashback then? Perhaps -- I for one was glad to see this, and I look forward to more updates as this list is completed. It will be good to see some more information about the results of the SOC, and what can be changed to improve it in the future.
There was plenty of new information in this new article, after having read both of them, I frankly don't see what you're griping about.
Next time, complain about a legitimate dupe. If things are as bad as you say they are, then you should have no trouble finding a real one.
Nice idea, poor pay (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Nice idea, poor pay (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Nice idea, poor pay (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Nice idea, poor pay (Score:4, Insightful)
--Barry
Parent
Re:Nice idea, poor pay (Score:2)
Students who want to get a full time job with Google
Students who are interested in the type of projects that Google has available
Re:Nice idea, poor pay (Score:3, Funny)
our brethren in banglore?
Re:Nice idea, poor pay (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nice idea, poor pay (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm doing a 6 month internship right now. I'll net $17,000. If it was only a summer thing, I'd be getting around $9,800. This is in addition to full benefits, and up to 7% of my pay matched when I purchase stock. Honestly, this isn't even with a tech company; they just pay IT interns really well.
So yes, 9k to 18k for a summer internship.
Recognition (Score:2)
Re:Recognition (Score:2)
Well, obviously Google will now be paying teachers to have future generations of school children memorize and recite by heart the complete list of contributing programmers!
We cannot allow the names of these brave souls who laboured so hard for several months to be lost in the sands of time. Their memory shall be passed on from generation to generation for time immortal.
No VB? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No VB? (Score:2)
You should have done like the winners did - use google to cheat.
VB means you must have cheated using MSN Search, not Google Search! You might as well have told them you're going dressed up as Steve Balmer for Hallowe'en (don't forget the chair :-)
How about a winter of code? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:How about a winter of code? (Score:2)
Re:How about a winter of code? (Score:2)
"Winter of" can only be followed by obviously bad things:
Discontent
Darkness
Slack (we had one of those when our advisor went on sabbatical. It wasn't bad then but since I still haven't graduated I regret it now)
etc
Sir! Sir! (Score:2, Funny)
dollars (Score:3, Funny)
Good idea! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm suspecting the future is going to smell like AJAX...
Also, while barely literate, I'm pretty sure that dollar sign goes before the ammount...
Re:Good idea! (Score:2)
Also, when is the last time you SAID "dollars forty-five hundred"? Of course, if you're going around as Yoda on Hallowe'en, "dollars forty-five hundred" might just be the way you'd speak ...
So much publicity and all you win is... (Score:4, Funny)
Other Results: (Score:5, Funny)
Interesting Demographics (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Interesting Demographics (Score:2)
There has been a lot of effort recently to try and get more girls interested in math and science in the pre-college years, but there has only been limited success. There remains a tremendous disparity in the number
Re:Interesting Demographics (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Interesting Demographics (Score:3, Funny)
I'm a woman in CS (Score:3, Informative)
At college most of the women went into chemical engineering, or varients (geological, biological, and there was one other which I can't remember). I don't know why more women don't care to program, but low stats for women doesn't surprise me a bit.
Re:Interesting Demographics (Score:2)
Man look at the names (Score:4, Funny)
Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:3, Interesting)
Summer = 12 weeks
1 work week = 40 hours
Total = 480 hours per summer
BEFORE taxes, this is $9.30 / hour.
I can make more at McDonald's especially considering meals are discounted 75%.
Re:Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Some got paid considerably LESS than $9.30/hour (Score:5, Insightful)
Google didn't pay these people anything. Rather, it provided grants/scholarships to people interested in working on open source code. People (coders and/or organizations) submitted proposals for ideas they wanted to work on, and Google selected some worthy ones that they would give extra money to, so as to encourage students to spend time doing some open-source coding.
Google was not hiring these people to work on specific projects that get added to the portfolio of Google products. Everyone involved could have turned down the grant money if they had a better offer. But for these students, who would have likely worked on these (or other) open-source projects over the summer anyway (to bolster their CV and/or because it's fun), the grant was probably a welcome bonus.
Everyone benefits from the open-source software that has been produced by these (partially funded) volunteers. Remember that the people working on these projects were contributing to open-source projects that are, by and large, non-commercial. That is, the summer-of-code people got $4500, whereas everyone else working on the project got $0. They are doing it because they want to. It is not a (traditional) job.
Parent
Re:Some got paid considerably LESS than $9.30/hour (Score:3, Interesting)
Even if you're right...
$9/hr is 75% (thats (9.00-5.15)/5.15*100% ) increase over minimum wage. Maybe to you that is "scant" more than minimum wage. But to someone who's never had a job or has only had minimum wage type jobs, it's not scant at all.
You say mathematics don't lie. However, I fail to see you actaully use any mathematics to prove your point.
Also it seems you left out a few
Re:Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:2)
Where else can you earn $9.30/hour for contributing to an open source project? And who benefits from it? Why should google pay them more than $9.30 an hour when there are no other offers on the table?
Re:Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:5, Funny)
Wow, McDonalds is hiring coders?
especially considering meals are discounted 75%.
Yeah, but the downside is that it's McDonalds "food".
Parent
Your analogy is horrible (Score:2)
The point here is that software programming is more complex than flipping burgers.
No, the point is that flipping burgers for a fast-food chain is in no way comparable to being paid to do something you would already be doing, rather than having to give up that thing you love to go work in a fast-food joint.
It is an insult that they even throw a paltry couple thousand at these guys who are doing real, complex engineering of software.
So, rather than
Re:Your logic is horrendous (Score:3, Insightful)
The Summer of Code wasn't a job. Google did not higher people to write code for them and play them only $9/hour.
Google instead offered students a chance to do some work with real OSS applications and to work with people who have experience developing with the OSS applications. They also gave each person who finished their project $4500 and $500 to the mentor (I think the m
Re:Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:2)
For someone with the necessary skills outside North America that would be a decent amount of money. Plus, this is something that a person could use to supplement an existing job by working on it in their off hours.
Not everyone needs to make 100k a year for SUV payments and cable.
Re:Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:4, Insightful)
India
GDP per capita $480
Unemployment rate 8.8%
Labor force 406 million
Population below the poverty line 25%
Typical salary for a programmer $8,000 year = $4.16 an hour
source http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.02/india_pr
If I lived and was a programmer in India Google would be a good choice considering only two months of work!!!!
Parent
Re:Google pays MCDONALD'S wages (Score:3, Informative)
$4500/120 = $37.50/hour. I'd say I'm happy with that. The trick was to come up with an innovative idea that didn't require too much coding. Of course if your proposal was to write a MS Windows clone in COBOL then you've got other problems.
Hmmm, interesting projects (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't even have that limited of bandwidth and I would like to see this mod in production. Very needed code IMHO.
This is what I have been waiting for since the dawn of time. Well, not that long, but I have always wondered when I would be able to mount remote file systems via secure shell.
Re:Hmmm, interesting projects (Score:5, Informative)
the project is here: http://shfs.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
enjoy...
harryk
Parent
Re:Hmmm, interesting projects (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm, interesting projects (Score:3, Informative)
http://cband.linux.pl/ [linux.pl]
http://www.steve.org.uk/Software/mod_curb/ [steve.org.uk]
http://www.snert.com/Software/mod_throttle/ [snert.com] This one might be best, I've looked at it before.
http://www.topology.org/src/bwshare/README.html [topology.org]
Or you could just dupe an ask.slashdot.org by asking something like:
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/18/02 31229&tid=4&tid=2 [slashdot.org]
I'm really surprised this is not part of Apache by
Other MozDev projects: (Score:5, Informative)
The MozDev (related to Mozilla / Firefox) projects missing from the list are:
- Cockatoo: SIP phone extension for Mozilla Thunderbird
http://cockatoo.mozdev.org/ [mozdev.org]
- Firepuddle: BitTorrent P2P for Mozilla
http://firepuddle.mozdev.org/ [mozdev.org]
- Event Loger (An advanced macro and testcase creation tool for Firefox)
http://eventlogger.mozdev.org/ [mozdev.org]
- Muzzled: graphical theme builder for mozilla
http://muzzled.mozdev.org/ [mozdev.org]
- Vietnamese translation of Firefox
http://vi.mozdev.org/ [mozdev.org]
T-Shirts? (Score:5, Funny)
"I coded open-source software all summer, and all I got was $4500 and this lousy T-shirt" ??
mod_smtpd (?) (Score:3, Funny)
Is there some corollary to the well known quote like "Every daemon attempts to expand until it can schlep mail" that I'm not aware of?
New: Results Posted (Score:2)
But, the first posting was about the end of the "Summer of Code". This posting was a link to Google and the results of the program.
Re:This was posted 6 WEEKS AGO! (Score:4, Insightful)
If you remember anything about the article from 6 weeks ago that you posted a link to, then you would remember that it was extremely thin as far as details went. Did you look at many of the projects when it was "officially over"? If you had, you would remember that a quite a number of them hadn't turned in their final versions yet, nor had they turned in their final reports (and if they had finished/turned in the report, then it wasn't available yet for public access, it had only been turned into their project supervisors).
If you went to college, then maybe you remember that college students have a "habit" of turning stuff in at or after the deadline? The SOC was no different. That's why you don't get your grade results until a week or two *after* it's over. It takes time to figure out what-the-heck-happened during the flurry that was the deadline.
You would have preferred this in a slashback then? Perhaps -- I for one was glad to see this, and I look forward to more updates as this list is completed. It will be good to see some more information about the results of the SOC, and what can be changed to improve it in the future.
There was plenty of new information in this new article, after having read both of them, I frankly don't see what you're griping about.
Next time, complain about a legitimate dupe. If things are as bad as you say they are, then you should have no trouble finding a real one.
Parent