Oracle and Sun Team Up to Provide .NET Alternative

segphault writes "Ars Technica has an article about the new partnership between Sun and Oracle, designed to provide an alternative to .NET." From the article: "According to Ellison and McNealy, their mutual goal is the production of a complete Java-centric enterprise datacenter architecture that leverages Solaris 10 and Oracle's Fusion middleware. Designed specifically as an alternative to Microsoft's .NET technology stack, the new platform is competitively priced and based on robust frameworks."

hilarity

[BitterAndDrunk]

Since Oracle Applications is still driven by ActiveX controls.

As is their AIM methodology.

In fact, Oracle Apps downloads are unsigned, untrusted. You have to open the browser (and it must be IE) pretty dern wide to use it.

Some odd reason

[hsmith]

I don't see the Oracle solution being cheap... But who knows!

As a sysadmin...

[Anonymous Coward]

As a sysadmin, I work with a plethora of applications, systems, integrators and vendors. We run everything: AS400, PHP, J2EE, linux, windows, perl, oracle, db2, postgres, mysql...I could go on, and on. Windows bashing aside, Java is the only technology that's "advanced" enough to break itself. I can literally run some of my perl scripts over and over until the cows come home...or leave my cisco routers up for 700 days...or reboot linux til I'm blue in the face and it's always predictable. When they fail, there's some reason: Disk space, upgraded software, user error, low memory, gamma rays, etc. Java is not that way - java has a mind of its own doesn't need an excuse to not work 1/1000 times.

My point here is that I feel for the people who will be administering this system - all of those sleepless nights troubleshooting transient failures with no fixes or even causes. Oh well, they made their bed, I suppose.

Re:Pricing...

[Debiant]

I think It's not just about technology, but about user end and development support.

If I compare Java and .NET, I must say I think it's right now much easier to do things with .NET .

I'm not talking about being platform independent, robustness or things directly related to merits of some programming language or enviroment, but more about how many potential people have access .NET technology.

For example, VB programmer may with some training be able to move his old VB code's business logic to .NET server. Same goes to C++ programmers. Even Java developers may find C# much more intresting than Java, because it pretty close but still diffrent(and not with a negative way). In a way .NET is a culmination of many programming languages, and that way looking far ahead of Java where you can only 'plug in' with Java only.

Besides Microsoft with it's traditional method, is trying to support .NET much as it is possible.

So I can understand why Ellison is trying to do what he is. as he sees that .NET has much synergy. More I look .Net, more I've started to wonder why it has been so overlooked.

It's coming fast, where I'm looking at it.

Re:Which version?

[BitterAndDrunk]

Yes, it's all java. I should have been more clear - the JRE 1.1.18 that Oracle Applications will download is triggered by an ActiveX control.

As is the entire AIM (Application Implementation Methodology) suite.
The eCommerce suite (CRM, iStore, iSupplier Portal, et al) avoids this issue entirely, as would an alternate method to download the JRE. But the "standard" implementation of Oracle Apps wil require opening the security settings wide like I said.

Re:Pricing...

[OpenServe]

So I can understand why Ellison is trying to do what he is. as he sees that .NET has much synergy. More I look .Net, more I've started to wonder why it has been so overlooked.

What is truly mind boggling is the apparent conclusion that Java's correct "answer" to .NET is anything but a heavy embrace of open source. (Apache/LGPL style) The only way to match the growing "synergy" of .NET is to work from the grassroots up and not look only at the "big iron" markets. While lucrative, they can not yield sufficient growth for the Java platform. .NET is not just an enterprise datacenter solution -- it's a unified desktop/server/mobile/web platform and as such it is very much "embrace and extend." The areas where Java is weakest are on the client side and this is where .NET has / will have it beat hands down unless drastic changes are made. Java Desktop was a good initiative but it hasn't gone nearly far enough. At this point, I'd have to put my bets on open source Java projects as the true saviors of the language. (even as pioneers of fresh approaches not designed by committee.. think EJB2 -> Spring/Hibernate -> EJB3) This is not to say Sun and Oracle lack a significant market in the high-end, but theirs is also a niche compared to the whole landscape .NET is going after. If they don't expand their horizons and embrace open source in the low/mid-range markets, the high-end niche could shrink as .NET marches forward on both hype and shiny new technologies.

If anyone from Sun happens to be reading this, please don't overlook where .NET is going with UI technology. Swing/SWT/JSF came too late and are inadequate in comparison to upcoming .NET XAML/WPF. Nevertheless, XAML is not perfect and there is still an opportunity to leap-frog ahead of it before it gains too much traction post-Vista-launch. Now would be the perfect time to tear down the popular image that Java is good for the server but awful for client-side.

Re:Predictions

[ClosedSource]

"I have it on my XP desktop right now"

And perhaps you're one of the very few who actually run java applications on your desktop, most people don't.

"and my Cell phone too"

Which has nothing to do with the Windows desktop.

"It's behind many many web sites"

Which also has nothing to do with the Windows desktop.

"Java makes it so easy to port from one platform to another that running Java on Windows is trivial. There are 1000's of Java apps that run on Windows"

The question is not whether one can create Java apps that run on Windows but rather whether developers use Java when their product is specifically required to run on Windows. In most cases, platform-independence is not required. Windows customers would much rather have a responsive product that runs only on Windows than a slower product that could run on a platform they have no intention to use.

"MS was trying to pirate the Java langauge and make it run on NOTHING BUT Windows by adding proprieraty extensions as part of the "Standard"."

My speculation is that once Standard Java was established and was popular on many platforms including Windows, Sun planned to sell proprietary hardware to accelerate Java's performance to native speeds. MS's Windows-specific implementation undermined that plan by making Java faster on Windows without special hardware, so Sun decided to fight them.