Open Source vs. the Database Vendors 183
bhmit1 writes "BusinessWeek has another spread on open source this week. Among them is an article about open source vs. the database vendors which focused on how businesses are looking to save money with open source (rather than using the source to innovate). From the article: "The databases work fine, but as data volume grows, so do the checks to Oracle, IBM, or Microsoft. Many users aren't clamoring for more features, and some don't even use the bells and whistles they already paid for. They would happily trade some to get their hands on the source code and a better deal." Disclaimer: that quote came from Sony."
Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Duh. Isn't that the #1 draw for the majority of OSS users out there? Sure there are some that are in it for the politics and others who actually try to contribute, but let's face it, the majority of people use it because it's free (as in beer).
Not everyone cares about Coding... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Large Wallets + Small understanding = nothing n (Score:3, Insightful)
Then there was that one Java project, where the database schema mapped directly to the inheritance hierarchy of the object model. Booting the application server took longer than booting the operating system. While no raging Java fan, I can't help but think that particular issue was coder ignorance writ large. Wrote the test plan, got out of that swamp ASAP.
Hands on source code (Score:5, Insightful)
How many are there who would actually look at the source code of a database, work on it rather than develop new applications based on it? If database A works, then they are going to stick with database A until conditions change drastically. It hasn't happened now and doesn't seem like it will happen in the near future.
It's the data... (Score:5, Insightful)
And if you've paid for Oracle/DB2 and you're training your staff on and using Oracle/DB2 anyway then it doesn't make a load of sense to introduce different RDBMS systems that your DBAs and administrators are completely unfamiliar with, especially when you've got that Oracle box sitting there underutilised.
Ultimately you're right, 95% of apps could be served perfectly well by mysql, postgresql, msaccess, filemaker etc. Corporate IT depts should really create two categories of RDBMS systems, vital and casual. The vital ones being the core business operations and casual being everything else.
Well (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd be more comfortable running a system running a vendor dbms rather than an Open Source implementation - just because when shit hits the fan (which it invariably does), at least there's ultimately someone responsible for it.
Don't get me wrong; we run mySql for all small-midsize operations, but the bigger systems run Oracle purely because of this reason.
depends (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not everyone cares about Coding... (Score:1, Insightful)
Stored procedures are BAD BAD BAD, I'm glad you have a hard time promoting those. Why?
- You can't easily migrate to another database-vendor. Maybe you want to switch. Maybe you have to because of technical reasons. Maybe you have to because your company is being bought by another, which uses a different system and wants to maintain only one platform. Whatever the reason, your stored procedure is going to really, really hurt.
- Usually, there is only one database but several application servers. You want to take load off the database because it scales not as well as the application servers, of which you can always add another rack full of. So maybe it takes twice as long on the application servers to do what your stored procedure do - but you have a dozend application servers running and only one database. You really, really want to avoid the bottleneck on the database.
Re:Can't hear you... la-la-la (Score:2, Insightful)
Short Term Gain Is KING! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a surprise? Maybe "back in the day" innovation was a significant part of the average business plan in the United States, but those days are long gone in today's business world where short-term financial gain is the only objective. Realistically, the only innovation going on today it that which is related to military use. Sad, really.
Re:Well (Score:3, Insightful)
But MySQL is a vendor DBMS if you want it to be. You can buy the product and support from MySQL.com [mysql.com].
However, even if we invent a hypothetical Open Source product where paid support isn't available, there are circumstances where I get really fed up of the "we can't use that, what if it breaks" attitude.
I've just moved from horrifically risk averse backwater within a Fortune 500 corporation, to an environment where maybe just once in a while you can say "No, you don't need paid support for that piece of Open Source software: if it breaks we have the expertise and resource to fix it within 24 hours".
Sometimes that's not enough -- sometimes you're risking tens of thousands of dollars and you want insurance against that. Sometimes, though, it *is* enough, and it's right to stop and make that decision.
Re:Can't hear you... la-la-la (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly. If you don't *need* Oracle, don't use it. On the other hand; If your database is the life blood of your business and downtime can cost your business it's life. You would be a fool not to use it.
Oracle is what it is and you pay for what it is. I use a mix of many different databases, but our most critical and complexed applications run Oracle. Why? Because the only way you will lose data in a Oracle database is if you shouldn't be managing an Oracle database.
Re:Obvious (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Obvious (Score:2, Insightful)
I have tried Oracle, and I was not happy with the installation. Debian is not supported, so you have to fool the install script to go ahead anyway. I needed a hard disk update because I was running out of disk space (several GB necessary). The installation went fine, but it doesn't tell you what its doing.
So now I have several java application web servers, some of which seem to be essential for "user friendly" maintenance. I have a listener, and a database. And guess what? None of these parts start up automatically after a reboot. Figuring out how to restart it took ages. And I am still having problems with my connection definitions.
MySQL on the other hand couldn't be simpler. mysqld and libmysql.so, that's it. Hostname:port, user+password specifies your database connection. Lots of nifty tools around, in just about any language.
If you believe in KISS, MySQL beats Oracle any day.
Re:Not everyone cares about Coding... (Score:1, Insightful)
Combine this with a decent object relational technology like Hibernate and you can swap database vendors by changing a single configuration file.
I work with Big Blue Chip "Real World Business" everyday and they swap databases for many reasons including the following :
- Mergers and Aquisitions lead to two database vendors of choice, overtime the merged entity wants to move to a single vendor
- Vendor price negotiations: if the vendor knows they can swap dbs at the drop of a hat they tend to price accordingly
- They want to switch to a free open source database (we are seeing this more and more in govt).
I guess you are a DBA... better start looking for another job because nobody needs dbas anymore. Systems Administrators yes, DBAs no.
Re:Hands on source code (Score:3, Insightful)
We used Oracle extensively at my first
We spent months trying to get an answer from Oracle as to what was causing this error. In the meantime, any time someone encountered it, we had to randomly start changing queries until it worked again. If I remember correctly, Oracle never did tell us what caused the error, they just quietly released an update some months later that made the problem go away (which then took several more weeks to make it up to our production servers).
If we had been using an Open Source database at the time, even if we never modified the source ourselves, I suspect that there's a pretty good chance that somebody would have been able to find out what was causing that error in far less time than we had to wait for Oracle to address the issue. And even if we couldn't fix the problem ourselves, we could have at least known how to avoid it until an official fix was available.
Being able to modify the source yourself isn't the only advantage to using an Open Source product.
Re:I like my 3 CD DB downloads from oracle (Score:3, Insightful)
They were resistant until I started with software costs. Linux distro - free. MySQL - free. MS Windows Server 2003 75 cal - $15,500, MS SQL 2005 75 user was close to $20,000.
Add my $7,000 development fee to that and they'd have paid $42,500 vs just the $7,000. Big difference as all they're paying for here is IP and I hand off all source and notes when the project is over. Yes, I own it and they can't share it. But they have every right to the fruits of my labor since they are paying for it. But I retain rights to the software as delivered. They are free to modify in any way they like.
Support (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted some non-widely used software will only offer forums, chat, and lists as support options. But most major open source packages (including MySQL) does have professional level support available. Some open source companies (like MySQL and RedHat) offer commercial support themselves directly to the customer. Other packages have vibrant support communities that have sprung up around them and even companies that are quite successful offering commercial level support for several open source packages.
Saying that the reason people don't switch to open source software is because there is no support available is simply not true. It might have been true two or three years ago but not anymore. Take some time and investigate your options and you'll find there's a lot more available out there than you might think.
Re:Open Source + the Database Vendors (Score:3, Insightful)
Oracle about as complete as they come. In speed tests its pretty comparable to most other databases which are acid compliant doing the same things. There are good memory based databases which crush it but if you want to compare apples to apples I don't see any evidence for your claim.
If by effeciency you mean code size then I would agree with you the open source world has some very small databases which do a limited number of things very quickly and very well.
Sure it is (Score:5, Insightful)
Whoever you paid for your commercial MySQL [mysql.com] or PostgreSQL [postgresql.org] support contract, of course.
There are many Oracle, SQL Server and DB2 specialists on the market.
So your contention is that a high rate of turnover in the support of those applications is good?
As an early adopter of software you take on the risk while others (including competitors) learn from your mistakes.
MySQL and PostgreSQL were publically released 11 and 17 years ago, respectively. If that's your idea of "early adopter", then may I also suggest other hip new technologies you might wish to investigate, such as TCP/IP, VGA graphics, and transistor-based memory?
Re:But who will my boss shout at? (Score:3, Insightful)