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Sun Offering Optimized AMP Stack On Solaris 135

Posted by kdawson
from the LAMP=~s/L/S/ dept.
tbray writes "This is your friendly local Sun corporate drone reporting that we're going to be building and optimizing and DTrace-ing and shipping and supporting the AMP part of LAMP (details here). I think that basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp."
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Sun Offering Optimized AMP Stack On Solaris

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  • Will Sun also be rolling out energy drinks for server admins?
  • by linuxbaby (124641) * on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @03:28PM (#18002380)
    Great quote from TFA:

    The job isn't finished yet, until all of Apache and MySQL and PostgreSQL and PHP and Python and and Ruby and Rails are in the package, all optimized for Solaris, all stuffed with DTrace probes, and all with developer and production support available. It won't be long.
    • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by Anne Thwacks (531696)
      It won't be long.

      Is that right after Sun support Sun supplied ATI 3D Rage cards on Sun supplied UltraSparc hardware on Sun Solaris 10 then?

      As a Sun Fanboy, I want to know when my kit will actually work?

    • Perl, in the meanwhile, works like a charm, and out of the box on Solaris ;-)
  • We're going to be building and optimizing and DTrace-ing and shipping and supporting the AMP part of LAMP (details here).

    I love lamp.
    • by ryanov (193048)
      Do you really love lamp, or are you just saying it because you saw it [on Slashdot]?
    • by jo42 (227475)
      It's "LAMP" you educated (?) clod.
  • Yeah but... (Score:2, Funny)

    by dasOp (781405)
    How about an optimizied, Dtraced and -l"-froot" free telnetd?
    • A fix for telnetd is now available for free download from sunsolve.sun.com [sun.com] e SPARC patch is 120068-02 or later and X86 patch is 120069-02.

      In any case, it's probably best to disable telnetd with svcadm disable telnet Better yet, next time you install or upgrade use the "reduced networking profile" which has most services disabled (not ssh).

  • by linguae (763922) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @03:37PM (#18002520)

    ...Microsoft is announcing an optimized ISA (IIS Server, SQL Server, ASP.NET) Linked List on Windows Vista(TM). More details to follow.

  • Sun still thinks they're "the whole tech industry". Except Microsoft.
    • Well, Microsoft thinks they're 'the whole tech industry' except for third party extension developers for the Windows platform. And it ain't cute.
  • ... you can use the acronym STAMP.
  • THIS [oseao.com] is an amp stack. /dundee
  • Yawn.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CodeShark (17400) <ellsworthpc@yaGI ... minus herbivore> on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @03:44PM (#18002680) Homepage
    Seriously....since I don't really want to use Sun hardware or Solaris, tell me again, why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack? Especially given the fact that most of the security and bug fixes --at least for Php and MySql -- which pop up are first dealt with in the Linux end of the stack.


    Seems to me that this is not so much News as it is "snooze..."

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by gstoddart (321705)

      Seriously....since I don't really want to use Sun hardware or Solaris, tell me again, why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack?

      The same reason anyone wants to run Sun hardware -- sheer size, (preceived) reliability, as well as a vendor you think you can trust who sells good support packages.

      As much as Linux has been really making inroads into the core UNIX market by using commodity hardware, at some point, that big honking Sun server which they promise to have someone on s

      • Re:Yawn.... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by m0rph3us0 (549631) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @03:59PM (#18002910)
        For us we doubled the performance on our db by switching from RHEL4 to Solaris 10. The support for Solaris 10 is less than for RHEL4
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by nuzak (959558)
          Hell, I more than doubled my performance on my filesystem-heavy loads going from RHEL4 to RHEL3. The syscall overhead went through the roof in EL4, even with SELinux off. I got tired of trying to compile a kernel (hey vendors, would it kill you to ship a config that doesn't panic when I compile using it without changing anything?) so I just retrograded. The next move will most likely be lateral, to another vendor.
    • by Cyberax (705495)
      You can use Solaris on almost any modern hardware. Actually, most of Sun's hardware nowadays is built on top of AMD (and soon Intel) CPUs.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Doctor Memory (6336)

        most of Sun's hardware nowadays is built on top of AMD (and soon Intel) CPUs
        Nope, most of their stuff still runs on SPARC. They're selling their new Niagra-based systems as fast as they can crank them out, and they still ship a healthy number of UltraSPARC boxes too. They do have a lot of AMD-based stuff, but they're still predominantly a SPARC vendor.
        • by oojah (113006)

          They're selling their new Niagra-based systems as fast as they can crank them out

          Well no kidding they're seriously tasty. I know if I won a ton of money that's what I'd get.

          Cheers,

          Roger

    • Lamp?

      what if I run freebsd (I do, actually).

      AMP are for the layers above the o/s, silly. the o/s below it matters less and less (in theory).

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Kadin2048 (468275)
      I don't think there's any real reason to, if you're familiar with Linux ... Sun would like people to use Solaris, and they have some interesting administration tools, and of course they'll sell you a support contract and might be more "PHB compatible" than many Linux vendors, but I've yet to see any good comparisons.

      A while back there were some interesting comparisons of SQL performance on Darwin/Mac OS X versus Linux, under controlled conditions on similar hardware; it would be interesting to see a Sun-AMP
      • Re:Yawn.... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by gstoddart (321705) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @04:19PM (#18003288) Homepage

        A while back there were some interesting comparisons of SQL performance on Darwin/Mac OS X versus Linux, under controlled conditions on similar hardware

        Ah, but remember -- Sun can sell you a machine which goes well beyond the whole 'similar hardware'.

        If they can sell someone an optimized, supported, and enterprise-class piece of hardware which is basically turnkey, and can fill the job of being your web-facing front-end, there will be companies for whom this is a very good idea.

        What Sun can sell you is the higher end for which there is no way you could build it with a commodity PC. Enterprise customers have enterprise hardware needs, and enterprise mindsets. Being "PHB Compatible" is a valuable thing in business, cause if things go to shit, you have someone who can come in and make things go again.

        Sun isn't trying to get the hobbyist shop; they're targeting higher end companies with bigger budgets who want reliability.

        If for nothing else than they're going to support the AMP stack, I have to commend Sun on this decision. This can only be good for those parts of the stack, and it won't really hurt Linux in any way -- this is complementary. This will have the effect of giving PHBs an option which uses Apache, MySQL, and PHP/PostgressSQL (whichever it is). I don't see this as being a 'lose' for the OSS people.

        Why is Slashdot so pathologically opposed to someone buying a computer and operating system, even if it makes sense for their business goals?

        Cheers
        • by a.d.trick (894813)

          Why is Slashdot so pathologically opposed to someone buying a computer and operating system, even if it makes sense for their business goals?

          Because, as one long dead poet named John Donne wrote:

          No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, an

        • by CodeShark (17400)
          Very very good points. My belief has been that a properly clustered set up of Linux boxes would usually kick the backside of most single servers, but from a corporate standpoint I can see where the single source hardware and OS support + AMP stack would be something worth considering. Thanks!
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by nadamsieee (708934)

      Seriously....since I don't really want to use Sun hardware or Solaris, tell me again, why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack? Especially given the fact that most of the security and bug fixes --at least for Php and MySql -- which pop up are first dealt with in the Linux end of the stack.

      Solaris is a pretty darn good product. And if Sun starts providing full time support for the "AMP" part of the stack, you can probably bet that bug fixes for Solaris won't be far behind

    • by Soong (7225)
      But, I want to drop the "MP", oh, and the L. I'll run my MacOS Apache PostgreSQL Servlet webapps, woo, go MAPS!
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      why would I want to leave the "L" (Linux) out of the Apache/MySql/Php stack?

      DTrace, zones, ZFS. Then throw in the Sun StorageTek Availability Suite [opensolaris.org] and Solaris Cluster [sun.com] for fun: both are available as free downloads (AVS is open source (or will be soon)) or with upto 24x7 support.

    • Especially given the fact that most of the security and bug fixes --at least for Php and MySql -- which pop up are first dealt with in the Linux end of the stack.

      You say that like all the security and bugfixes are Linux-related.

      Which makes excising the 'L' part of LAMP sound appealing. Hope that's what you meant.

  • Excepting MS? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Microsoft is indeed working on optimizing PHP for Windows, and they certainly support Python with IronPython (which is quite often faster than CPython).

    dom
  • SAMP = SAMe Product
  • Those of us who have some fairly big Sun iron would love to see this happen post haste. That would take some of the hodge-podge out of a few systems that I work on/with. Trying to ditch the Oracle license fees is a GoodThing!
  • Postgres Migration (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @03:58PM (#18002906) Homepage Journal
    I wish there were a simple tool I could run that would analyze a LAMP install and migrate it to Postgres instead of MySQL.

    I don't want to get into a holy war about the relative merits: we already use Postgres, we will not support two database systems, we are not switching from Postgres to MySQL. MySQL might be good for others, but not for us.

    But we do get these LAMP apps that come bundled with MySQL. Usually they don't use any MySQL specific features that Postgres (and maybe moving some functions across the app/DB boundary) can't directly support. So I'd like to get a LAMP -> LAPP migrator that will automate the switch. Leaving optimizations for after the switch, to be performed by other (Postgres) tools or programmers/DBAs. The open source of these two DBs, and the open source of all these LAMP apps, should make migration between them accessible.

    I'm sure there are lots of people like me. Where's the tool that makes the open source as good for migrating among these programs as creating them from scratch?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by TheNinjaroach (878876)
      Better programing of these LAMP packages will end the need for a LAMP -> LAPP migration tool. When the database connections are abstracted properly it becomes fairly trivial to swap out DB backends without changing much, if anything of the application itself.
      • Indeed, if you're using the Perl DBI or one of the better PHP DB libraries along with SQL that's not in a nonstandard dialect, you can pretty much edit the config to say 'MySQL' or 'Postgres'. I'm sure the other languages approach this if not matching it.
      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by larry bagina (561269)

        When the database connections are abstracted properly it becomes fairly trivial to swap out DB backends without changing much, if anything of the application itself.

        Nice in theory, but MySQL, being an "extended subset" of SQL, doesn't support a lot of standard SQL features, then makes up for it by doing it their own nonstandard way. Perl is nice about abstraction with the DBI, but PHP is a complete mess. Every PHP project I've seen either a) uses raw mysql_* functions or b) uses a roll-your-own db "ab

        • Thank you for quoting the second half of my post, and restating the first half with a full paragraph of babble.

          Better programing of these LAMP packages will end the need for a LAMP -> LAPP migration tool.
          Care to explain how our opinions are any different?
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Furry Ice (136126)
        I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you've never actually maintained a large application that supported more than one database. It's not the most difficult problem to solve in the world, but it's pretty far from trivial at times. SQL may be standardized, but no one implements the standard.

        Sometimes, you end up having to have a different schema for the different databases because of optimizations that one supports and the other doesn't. For example, modeling trees in Oracle can be done with the C
    • So I'd like to get a LAMP -> LAPP migrator Is that something like a LAPP dance?
    • by illumin8 (148082)

      So I'd like to get a LAMP -> LAPP migrator that will automate the switch.

      Since most of these LAMP applications are shipped as source code anyway, and the install procedure usually says something like "Run mysql -u root dbinstall.sql", you are already manually installing the database or creating the schema by importing the SQL. Why not just import it into Postgres and see if it works?

      The only hard part is looking through all of the PHP code and changing every call from it's MySQL equivelant to Postgres

    • by drew (2081)
      If the people writing these apps can't be bothered to use decent DB abstraction layer, do you really want to run their code?

      I know DB abstraction isn't perfect, but it certainly lessens the pain to the point where doing a manual search and replace of SQL statements that don't work correctly in the new DB isn't so daunting.

      And if you're doing so much database specific syntax that even that task is daunting, you should probably be putting your SQL statements into stored procedures, so that porting to a new da
  • sounds way cooler
  • I think this takes the old "slow news day" on /. to a whole new level.

    The story: Sun has started optimizing a handful of apps.

    I can barely contain my excitement.
  • Recently Sun was giving out source SDKs for many of their products on DVDs for free. I'm still waiting for mine in the mail, but until then, I'll keep testing OpenSolaris on my test box which has been alive and kicking since 2000 with no upgrades! :D
  • This would be Sun getting-around-to optimising the 2nd rate web server package they offer. Customers demand it, so Sun offers it, but they'd rather sell you a Java Servlet based web server. (Dunno if Sun has a preferred SQL DB to go on the far side of those JDBC connections, but I prefer PostgreSQL to MySQL.)
    • (Dunno if Sun has a preferred SQL DB to go on the far side of those JDBC connections, but I prefer PostgreSQL to MySQL.) Apparently so does Sun, as they're shipping PostgreSQL on Solaris 10 and they even offer a support contract for the same. I have this sneaking suspicion that the way that Oracle licenses it's RDBMS is eating into Sun's hardware sales and they're looking to offset this. Or maybe they'd rather that people bought their app server rather than Oracle's offering. Either way, I'm hoping that
  • Dtrace (Score:3, Interesting)

    by starseeker (141897) on Tuesday February 13, 2007 @05:56PM (#18004700) Homepage
    I have a feeling Dtrace probes might be a big, big win here - if they instrument it as they have the Solaris system itself that level of performance tuning integrated into the entire software stack may allow for some Really Impressive payoffs.

    On the high end, bottlenecks are something to really watch for and identify, and Dtrace is an excellent tool for that sort of activity. This will be very interesting to watch.

    Also, if Solaris DOES go GPLv3, the immediate availability of a superior SAMP stack that is GPL could turn a lot of heads, and may even displace some LAMP systems quickly and painlessly.
  • I think that basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp
    I think that basically you haven't worked in enough segments of the tech industry.

    Java is big in the finance industry because: 1) it's not subject to a monopoly, and 2) there's still somebody to sue when something goes wrong.

  • do their AMPs go to 11?
  • Beter use Dtrace to trace the telnet bug.
  • How is this different from their already-available CoolStack, which I'm already running on my T2000?

    http://cooltools.sunsource.net/coolstack/ [sunsource.net] ...they don't really explain it.
  • FTA: >> I think that basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp.
    Industry standards are generally incompatible with Microsoft's longstanding "Rube Goldberg" software development model.
  • I use LLPR => Linux, Lighttpd, Postgresql, Rails :)
  • Based on yoy revnue and profit growth over the last 2 quarters this will only help sun sales and not hurt it anyway. All the moves that sun has been making recently makes solid business sense. Hopefully they will continue to increase their user base steadily.
  • by Marcus Green (34723) on Wednesday February 14, 2007 @04:23AM (#18009316) Homepage
    "basically the whole tech industry, excepting Microsoft, is now at least partly in the AMP camp"

    Go to any job site of your choice.

    Do searches on
    apache
    mysql
    perl or PHP

    Then do searches on
    Oracle
    Java

    Allowing that most Java development is on the server side, try to draw a conclusion. Are these people spending good money advertising these jobs because they are using the technologies?. Is the whole tech industry, except Microsoft at least partly in the AMP camp or just the tiny bit that you are familiar with?
  • PHP ? Perl ? Python ? All of them ?
  • I used to rock out with my all-tube bass setu--oh...I thought you said Sunn amp stack...

    Chris
  • Not sure why Sun isn't advertising their new commitment to selling 'optimized SPAM' systems. The marketing just writes itself...

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