Delphi For PHP Released

Gramie2 writes "Codegear (now a subsidiary of Borland) has just released version 1.0 of Delphi for PHP, a RAD development environment (running on Windows) that produces standard PHP code. It features a large set of built-in components, including ones that use AJAX for database access; and Codegear is encouraging users to develop their own components. The framework, VCL for PHP, is open source, and documentation follows the PHP model. Initial database connectivity is for MySQL and Interbase (Codegear's commercial database that spawned the open-source Firebird), but more are promised."

Disambiguation

[Zouden]

If you're as confused as I was, it's because the name Delphi can apply to the language Object Pascal [wikipedia.org], as well as for the IDE [wikipedia.org] used primarily for Object Pascal.

This article is about the IDE being used for PHP, so fans of Pascal syntax have nothing to get excited about.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

You can use PHP to write web apps with proper code, MVC and templates through the use of frameworks (CakePHP, php.MVC, Zend, etc, or your own). The purpose of a language is not to provide you with all those things. You have to work for them, no matter what language you're writing in.

Apparently you have no clue about php ?

[unity100]

With php, code is seperated from the design, templates handling the visuals.

all major software like phpbb et al are like that.

you can make it so that not a single byte of code mingles with template if you wish.

php offers liberty on seperating content with the code. some do not, some do.

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative

[tolan-b]

The embedding code in HTML part of PHP is fairly legacy really for anyone doing anything more complex than basic scripts. Any decent larger PHP app will only use that method as part of a templating/view layer (as long as there's no business logic involved it's a useful templating tool), if at all.

Our CMS is MVC (command and controller j2ee pattern specifically), using PHP's embedding in the views only, is fully OO and has an O/RM layer for datastore access. This kind of set-up is increasingly common in PHP now. Just look at the number of application and database frameworks available for it.

Of course there are always going to be kids knocking out horrible scripts, but that doesn't mean there aren't people doing things properly too.

Re:Borland has died after Borland Delphi 7

[pdawson]

They sorta realized this. CodeGear is all the development apps (Delphi, C++, C#, Java, etc.) spun out to a new company. Borland is still around, and they're keeping the code management crap for themselves.

Re:Does this IDE build upon the existing interpret

[Red Alastor]

It's largely based on the qooxdoo javascript library.

Check the demos here [qooxdoo.org] and here [qooxdoo.org].

Re:Nice (so-called) dot-net alternative

[suv4x4]

No kidding? Have you ever seen a quality application written in PHP- it can do all these things and more. I've written many quality PHP applications that use a modified MVC architecture and has all the PHP code separate from the output templates.On top of that it uses OO where it makes sense to do so, it's fast and secure.

As a PHP developer, I agree with everything you said, except "fast", unless:

1. we ignore the speed of all the other platforms out there (python, perl, .net, java).

2. your requirements of "fast" are modest.

Truth is with more complex architectures and lots of OOP, PHP is really slow, even bytecode caching helps only so much.

PHP shines speed-wise exactly with the kind of "html-and-php-code" soup most pro developers despise. When Yahoo claim they use PHP, they in fact use it as a templating language in exactly this kind of "soup", their actual backend is C and Java.

This is why I'm really surprised at what CodeGear is trying to pull off here. As a developer of an in-house component based template engine myself, I know how painfully slow PHP becomes when you try to abstract some of your logic away in classes and so on. Various "PHP OOP" efforts like Zend's own framework or EZ Components prove my point as well.

Delphi's visual approach with VLC is just a huge bunch of abstraction. I can only imagine the kind of speed these PHP apps will have.. In fact you can pretty much say this effort is doomed from the very moment "PHP" got involved.

Re:Let's hope you're evaluating REAL REAL fast

[suv4x4]

As one of the CodeGear people explained, it was intended to be part of some kind of 1-day on-line seminar. The seminar had to be cancelled, but they decided to make the demo available. They realize that a single day is "sub-optimal".

PR is hard. Basically if the CEO's About page needs a photo but lacks one, which do you think is the better option, PR-wise:

1. Use the only photo of the CEO available, where he has his pants down.

2. Wait a bit and make/provide a better photo.

Unless they plan to assign a CodeGear "guy" explaining the situation to every user visiting their site, they'll look like morons to people who go there to evaluate their software.

Not only is it 1 day, but the activation is ridiculously complicated (activation.. of my trial.. by basically putting files in my documents and settings/[user] folder)

Re:Does this IDE build upon the existing interpret

[Aladrin]

A good IDE is worth its weight in gold. It doesn't need helper libraries to make it great.

I think you are right about being trapped in it, though... The VCL, if nothing else, would trap you irrevocably. But then, they're treating it more like an IDE for different language, and being tied to a language is true for any language. Just like Ruby on Rails is treated differently than plain Ruby.

Re:Another desperate attempt.

[dunkelfalke]

no, no, it's resting.

now serious: delphi is still the best tool for developing win32 apps and it is still widely used in europe.

PHPeclipse

[TwilightXaos]

You probably already know this then, but eclipse can be used to develop php as well:

PHPeclipse User Manual [schuetzengau-freising.de]