Dot-Com Work Culture Making a Comeback? 456
jeebus writes "This week a Deloitte study has shown that high on the agenda of CEOs around the world is the shortage of tech talent. Is a shortage of talented geeks in the market seeing a return of the dot-com culture with foosball tables, beanbags, and inflated salaries used to entice talented workers? Welcome to Web 2.0 work culture, the future of yesterday. 'Global recruitment companies were telling prospecting employees that they were no longer going to be employed just because they were a technical guru. They were going to have to learn to dress, communicate, and adapt all the traditional corporate ideals that IT has been exempt from during the dot-com boom. Fast forward to Web 2.0 and while workplaces aren't as cheesy with their decor as they were were in the late '90s, and developers aren't getting paid $100K for being HTML and JavaScript jockeys, geeks just aren't chuffed with corporate culture.'"
misconception about salaries? (Score:5, Interesting)
Cost (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not THAT good yet... (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, I have a little cubicle, a company issued notebook running Windows XP, and no stock options. All of our servers are named based on an established IBM numbering system. I get to work from home a bit more but that's only because I commute 4 hours a day.
Sure, this gig pays more, but the work environment is not nearly the same. There's no heady optimism about the future, and that, really, when you think about it, the collapse of the dot net boom and worse, the later ruling about expensing stock options, and then the war, this decade has been utterly depressing.
Depends on the place (Score:1, Interesting)
With the relaxed atmosphere we're very productive because people are just happy to work here.
Re:Cost (Score:3, Interesting)
We wont get fooled again... (Score:5, Interesting)
I recently received a call from the Recruiter that hired me on to my last corporate job. I was told the company I was laid off from was looking to hire me back. I told me the whole dog and pony show was starting back up, that the culture had changed and this time would be different and this time it wouldn't be a complete waste of five years of my life. I thought about it for five seconds and told her that I would just as soon bathe in hot lava than go back. She sounded a little upset, and proceeded to tell me that so far she was 0-12 in trying to lure back the folks I worked with. Guess I wasn't alone.
Re:misconception about salaries? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm guessing that's what they're referring to. Though it's kind of amusing that they'd be using the example of HTML and Javascript, seeing as how those two are a cornerstone of Web2.0. In fact, Javascripting has gone from a simple thing that you assign to juniors to a full-up development language that now you need sophisticated developers to wrangle. Welcome, Web2.0.
Of course, I'm also bemused by the idea that the Dot-Com "culture" belonged to the Dot-Coms. The Dot-Commers got the idea from the Valley technology companies back in the 80's. Back when Atari stomped the earth, Microsoft had to actually compete, a B&W Macintosh was the height of technology, and new microcircuit inventions were popping up every other day. While those companies didn't go to the extremes that Dot-Com companies went to, they were still well-known for their coddling of developers. Loose dress-codes (shocking!), arcade machines in the office (gasp!), flexible working hours (aka 24x7), comfortable environments (dibs on the bean bags!), and just a general attitude of "do what comes natural" were the way that Valley offices were run from the day that Nolen Bushnell founded Atari on forward to today. (Minus a few wrong turns for "seriousing up" of such companies. Yar, I'm looking at you.)
Re:misconception about salaries? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:IT (Score:3, Interesting)
Contrast with today, as an IT person, I work for an all out IT company, only men, blue collar, jeans. Cigarettes have been outlawed, but somebody is still using that soldering iron. And a compressor. Got a USB stick hanging around me somewhere. Got transformer logos on the wall. Only men work here. We work for whoever pays us. What's changed ?
Re:The comming screw (Score:2, Interesting)
While I agree with most of your list and mostly agree with the above statement (the in place of raises part). I can't agree that titles are useless (even they they should be). Turns out when I was called a Senior Network Administrator, I could not get people to return my calls. Once they started calling me the Network Services Manager (same pay, same job...) I started being able to get information and sales people would respond with yes sir this and yes sir that.
Re:The comming screw (Score:2, Interesting)
Worked for Microsoft employees in the 80's. It's a gamble. Consider how promising their business plan appears to be. The 80's was a fast growth time for software with clear income source (selling copies of software). The income source for the dotcoms was less obvious.
#6) Do not work more than 55 hours a week unless they are paying overtime.
I'd say it's more a case of don't make a habit of working over 40 hours.
Apart from those, that's all good advice.
XHTML/CSS (Score:3, Interesting)
The idea of someone being "good" with HTML is hilariously outdated.
I disagree. Someone truly skilled at XHTML/CSS can make a lot of money even today. I know multiple people who are doing just that. Faster rendering, easier maintainability, and protection from vendor lock-in are very compelling reasons for having a skilled XHTML/CSS developer do the work. It's not programming, but it can be extremely important. Just ask one of the many Fortune 500 companies that are still hamstrung by reliance on WYSIWYG tools that generate table-driven layouts and spaghetti code.
Re:misconception about salaries? (Score:3, Interesting)
The Dot-Commers got the idea from the Valley technology companies back in the 80's.
Indeed. The money to fund exorbitant play activities like foosball tables dried up after the Dot Bomb, but the relaxed dress code, flexible hours, and "it's what you do, not how you look" attitude of Silicon Valley entrepreneurism never changed. I can't think of the last time I saw a suit in a meeting, and that includes gatherings with VCs.
its not the reason, and its irrelevant to web 2.0 (Score:3, Interesting)
let me tell you what i see that creates the talented tech shortage - internet is a freeing medium - it has given much opportunity to anyone.
almost all programmers, developers, techies go set up their own small, even home-based shops and work from there for themselves, after getting screwed in a corporate environment for 5-10 years and getting fed up with it. the newcomers are just taking the example of their older peers, and directly going to self-employment after short stints.
and also theres the booming internet business - everyone is wanting some internet store, some tailored cms, some web presence and stuff. it is on the increase, and even in l.a.m.p. scene where there are many 3rd world country located developers doing work for $3 hourly rates, the tech supply can barely meet the demand. more developers coming into the scene, yet more work is coming. so its not 'web 2.0' or whatever crap that is involved in making web pages more widgety and doohickeyish - its a silent, people's boom in business in contrast to company/startup boom of the 90s, which was more traditional business than the small business boom that is on the net nowadays.
no sir, the reason thats creating the shortage is in internet business is booming, and what is booming is small businesses. small businesses do not put any restraints on the contracted or full time developers they work with or employ. hence people are escaping the clutches of stuffing, stressful corporate structure and setting up their shops.
and this is going to be like this increasingly, unless the corporations understand the need to reform and change the corporate philosophy to a more human oriented one rather than a "man in black suits" / "welcome to the world of career bitches" one.
Re:Bah (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course the world works in certain ways, but I think the dot com boom created quite a stir. There were people getting things done efficiently and effectively, they were happy, and they were getting paid. Suits and ties weren't the norm, neither were working 80 hour weeks with no overtime pay. There were parties every week or two.
If a team of 5 programmers working 40 hours or less a week can do more than 10 programmers working 80 hours a week, then the industry is fucked up. Those 10 programmers are probably stressed and unhappy, while their managers and/or sales department is living it up in making unreasonable promises and making unclear requests.
"Wow, that guy can program really well and he's not even wearing a suit and tie."
My parents actually warned me from wearing jeans on casual Friday at one point because they said it makes me look like I'm not doing anything and would probably get fired. The concept of being able to work without being reminded that your collar is cutting off your circulation was foreign to them.
Re:Bah (Score:1, Interesting)
I prefer the virtual office (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been working from my home for three years now for a software firm 600 miles away... and I'm not just a code-hacker (in fact, I'm supposed to start weaning myself from coding all together), I'm a product manager and direct the product management group and set strategy for the company.
First off, dress code: the HQ office is reasonably casual (although they've had an anti-jeans-and-sneaks backlash lately, it doesn't get enforced), but hey it's 10:30AM and I'm wearing my bathrobe. If there wasn't a nice cool breeze and I want the windows open, I might not be wearing that (don't want to scare the neighbors).
Second, commute: I haven't calculated the carbon footprint change, but I'm sure driving less than I did three years ago. I'm sleeping later than I did at the previous job, and spending more time with my family.
Third, health: No flickering flourescents, no cube noise, I've had fewer headaches and I'm more productive. I've managed to not gain weight even with a pantry full of gourmet food downstairs. I'm also getting mid-day exercise and don't care if I come back needing a shower -- there's one right over there!
Yeah, I miss out on picnics and friday pizza (somebody's got to get on that Wonkavision stuff, or at least a pizza-capable fax -- no wait, that must be what Domino's uses already, I could skip that)
Re:misconception about salaries? (Score:2, Interesting)
Costco's $17/hour is incredible. When I was 18 I was making $3.35/hr.
FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:History_of_US_
Re:misconception about salaries? (Score:3, Interesting)
As evidence, Insight here in AZ is interviewing for a HTML/CSS developer with light javascript knowledge for $55/65K a year. They were even promising significant pay raises for learning J2EE if you did not know it already. Does this represent the whole market or anything? No, but it does represent my area and goes to show the value of someone who is 'good' at HTML/CSS.
Re:Deloitte ?? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:sigh (Score:4, Interesting)
There was plenty of pointless excess to go around. From the people who generated the ideas to the people who funded them to the marginally skilled grads who took the $100k jobs ($50k of that is going to be in the form of stock options.....which could be make us all billionaires BTW!) Ask ESR, who publicly counted the money he didn't have. Or Commander "What kind of car does a wealthy young geek drive" Taco.
Plenty to go around.
Re:XHTML/CSS (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand, that kind of work isn't really just "writing XHTML/CSS," is it? It's really more like "writing the scripts and templates from which the XHTML/CSS is dynamically-generated," "writing an AJAX web app (which, of course, uses XHTML/CSS as its UI)", etc. -- things that require much more skill, in many more diverse technologies, than just "writing XHTML/CSS."
Size doesn't matter (Score:2, Interesting)
I've been at a 'big' company with 6k employees that was extremely casual--jeans, t-shirts, even for senior management. I've been at a 60 man outfit that actually had a mandatory shirt and tie requirement for people who did IT drudge work. They even sent someone HOME one day for not being up to dress code snuff. I kid you not. The point is that the size doesn't matter; only the desired tone and ideals pushed down from management matter.
In other words, if you work for dick heads, you'll have a shitty, miserable atmosphere. Work for nice and caring people, you'll have a nice, caring, and happy atmosphere. In twelves years of IT employment, that's the most important lesson I've learned: dickheadism is bad.
Re:Oh PLEASE GOD NO (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm in a dev team that does C. I'm pretty well versed in Perl and PHP as well, but my colleagues aren't. So, should I say something snobby like:
"Yes, C developers are quite talented. But C developers are rarely well versed in PHP or Perl."
Of course not. It implies one is better than the other. And it's NOT.
Re:misconception about salaries? (Score:3, Interesting)
To be fair though, I did once get sent on one of these award trips to Bermuda because they wanted to show an example of a developer getting a perk. It was sweet. But everyone kept looking at my name tag and assuming I was a sales engineer. They had the most perplexed look on their faces when I corrected them and said software engineer. It was completely new to them that a developer would be there. "Oh, you're one of those computer geeks." I get that all the time from those types and it's so insulting. I always wanted to say back, yeah, I'm the reason that you're here.
I'm not saying that sales people have stress-free jobs or anything. Quotas can make it tough. I just think it's bad business the way they're set up now. When it comes to miracle time, who's pulling the rabbit out of the hat and how motivated do you want them to be? Sales people are a dime a dozen. Decent developers are rare.
me too -- different outcome (Score:3, Interesting)
But as I have said before, IT is one of those jobs that has all of the responsibility and none of the authority. This makes it a crappy career path unless you are absolutely 100% devoted to IT and computers -- and if you are one of those people, you are probably not all that concerned with getting to the top of the food chain anyway. Just for fun, go out and google how many CIO's become CEO's vs. other C-level offices. You will find that CIO is an exceptionally bad way to "get to the top".
Simply put, IT is just a bad career path if you want to eventually come up through the ranks and have an executive position of somekind. Most companies only have a few, if any, executive level IT jobs. And even if you were to get one of those, you would - once again - be the low man on the totem pole (compared to CFO, CEO, Chief of HR, etc), fighting for ever-decreasing resources so your division can get it's work done.
I finally said screw it and went into an entirely different industry. I am still in a technical industry (so it's interesting) and that was the best decision I might have ever made in my life. I make more money. I work less. And I have lots of free time to do stuff on computers that I actually want to do.
It's a hard pill to swallow but the truth of the matter is that business just doesn't value IT all that much. Certainly not as much as it is truly worth. Maybe that will change in the future but for most companies, IT is a means to an end only -- and it is treated as such.
100K? Yeah RIGHT! (Score:2, Interesting)
With the cost of living (COL) increases, unless s/w developers are making 140K+, the dotcom culture IS NOT coming back. My raise this year was actually less than the COL in my area -- and I work the usual 50+. Those were the days...