SAP Admits to 'Inappropriate' Downloading of Oracle Code 149
netbuzz writes "SAP's CEO Henning Kagermann uses the undoubtedly lawyered term 'inappropriate download' to describe the company's questionable actions. Henning blames a rogue business unit, but there can be no mistaking the fact that Oracle caught SAP with its hand in the IP jar on this one. The legal proceedings that will follow should prove interesting. 'The admission hurts SAP's reputation in the battle with Larry Ellison's Oracle in the $56 billion market for software that manages tasks such as payroll. The rivalry between SAP and Oracle escalated when Oracle filed its March 22 lawsuit claiming SAP workers hacked into a Web site and stole software codes on a grand scale.'"
Bah (Score:2, Insightful)
Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe that the Slashdot zeitgeist is that the word "stole" is used incorrectly here -- many Slashdotters believe that the term "to steal" should only be applied to an instance where a physical item is moved from one place to another, and should not be applied to instances of copyright infringement or unauthorized duplication -- although I presume that exceptions can be made for "theft of service," "identity theft," "you stole my thunder," "stolen kisses" and the like.
So -- was the code really stolen?
Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:1, Insightful)
No. Theft is the removal of property with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. This is not removal of property, it is the illegal copying of IP. Therefore, illegal, but not theft. "Stole", "Stealing", etc. seem to have a less theft-y connotation than "theft", in general use, and tend to pass in these cases without much argument, but that needs to stop. Theft is theft, and infringement is not.
When you take something that doesn't belong to you (Score:2, Insightful)
We are stone-cold thieves. That's the human condition.
Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:3, Insightful)
Similarly, the other examples you gave: "theft of service," "identity theft," "you stole my thunder," "stolen kisses". None of those are "theft" in the legal sense (in fact half are not even illegal). Moreover, if you were trying to have a refined argument about any one of those topics, I believe most rational debaters would agree that none of them are "theft" in the strict sense of the word. The word "theft" is being applied in those cases to make the term catchy and easy to remember.
In regards to copyright infringement being inappropriately called "theft" (which is what you were indirectly referring to), similar arguments apply. It is not "theft" in the legal sense of the word, and I believe in a critical argument of the subject, using the term "theft" is imprecise and essentially an appeal to emotion rather than logic. The reason why many people in the copyright debate request that the terms "theft" and "piracy" be expunged from the debate is that, while they are catchy and easy-to-use terms, they muddy the debate by injecting moral preconceptions into the debate. (Thus, by using the terms one is implicitly already supporting a certain moral position, making impartial debate more difficult.)
Similarly, I think if there was a serious debate about the morality of giving one's lover a quick kiss, it would be a weak argument from the anti-kiss debaters if they said "stealing a kiss is, like all forms of stealing, immoral since theft is wrong." The pro-kiss debaters would be well within their debating rights to request that the term "stealing kisses" not be used, and the more neutral term "quick kiss" be used instead.
Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:2, Insightful)
YES, I AM SAYING EXACTLY THAT!
Pretend now that my safe is on display at the end of my driveway, and you, passing by, happen to see the combination written on the front of it. Have you stolen it? No. The only thing you've done illegally in your example is Break and Enter.
Pretend I leave my wallet open on a table, and you read my credit card number. Have you 'stolen' the 'secrecy' of my number? No. You haven't 'stolen' ANYTHING! However, should you choose to use my credit card number, you'd be charged with Identity Fraud and theft (since at that point, you would be stealing my money).
Re:Can I get a consensus opinion? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is not abnormal for software companies -- if you want access to upgrades & non-essential patches, you pay for support of that software from the developer, or from authorized resellers. Pretty much an industry standard from my experience.
Re:Heh (Score:0, Insightful)
How exactly is entering a valid username/password (albeit that weren't theirs) breaking the unbreakable? It's not, is it. So you're not funny. STFU.