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The Linux Weather Forecast 98

Posted by kdawson from the kernel-dev-roadmap dept.
kwabbles writes "The Linux Foundation launched the Linux Weather Forecast yesterday. It features 'current conditions' for kernel development, a 'short-term forecast,' and a 'long-term forecast.' Now developers and organizations that want to see when certain implementations/fixes are planned can find answers at this informative and handy site."
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The Linux Weather Forecast More

The Linux Weather Forecast

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  • Linux Climatologist (Score:5, Funny)

    by MyLongNickName ( 822545 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @10:58AM (#20249535) Journal
    Although I cannot predict day to day fluctuations, I can say with a high degree of certainty that in 1000 years, Linux usage among the population will be around 62% with a 73 percentage point uncertainty. My models are never wrong.

    • AAPL is heading DOWN ! Sell !! Sell AAPL !! (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      AAPL is heading DOWN ! Sell !! Sell AAPL !! Now !!
    • I thought you were going to say that in 1000 years, Linux will finally be ready for the desktop!

  • Partly cloudy... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Gonrada ( 1099035 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:01AM (#20249575)
    Partly cloudy with a slight chance of kernel panics.
    • we will see some segmentation faults and a 30% possibility of a new error called kernel disintegration. Also in international news the war on errors seems pretty grim.
    • Will the LWF also predict the consequences of global OS warming on the number of wild penguins?
    • > Partly cloudy with a slight chance of kernel panics.

      Forecast has been updated to include a 50% chance of flaming hail.
    • ...of the demonstrated warped sense of humor, I hereby propose that all Linux Kernel Mailing List flamewars are now referred to as cloudy.

  • I don't think it means what you think it does. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gihan_ripper ( 785510 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:03AM (#20249591) Homepage
    I was looking forward to reading reports of stormy weather ahead, or even of bright skies. But this seems be be more of a roadmap, not really a forecast. If someone can read this more deeply and see the analogy, then please enlighten me!

    • Re:I don't think it means what you think it does. (Score:5, Funny)

      by MyLongNickName ( 822545 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:04AM (#20249611) Journal
      If someone can read this more deeply and see the analogy, then please enlighten me!

      You see, it's like a car with a banana in its radiator...

    • Re:I don't think it means what you think it does. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by eln ( 21727 ) * on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:09AM (#20249679)
      I think they call it a "forecast" rather than a "roadmap" because that way it's only an educated guess, and they only have to be as accurate as your local weatherman is at long-range forecasts (that is, not at all).

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by bfields ( 66644 )

        I think the word "roadmap" would imply some control over the process--this is what we plan to do next and when we're hoping to do it by, etc.

        The nature of the Linux community is such that there's not really anybody with the authority to give such a roadmap. Linus can say "no" to people, but he can't make them work on anything they're not interested in. And it's difficult for the various groups implementing new features to guarantee somebody else won't come up with a valid objection that will delay accep

    • ...I'd quite like it if they used weather symbols to indicate the probability of adoption and timeframe, and the degree of concern over it. For example, sun mixed with cloud would indicate prospect of being adopted in near future. Lightning would indicate that it'd be adopted over the dead bodies of 50% or more of the list.

  • Obligatory George Carlin (Score:4, Funny)

    by RealProgrammer ( 723725 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:05AM (#20249629) Homepage Journal
    The Linux forecast for tonight is ... dark.

  • UIO: Userspace IO drivers. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:11AM (#20249709) Journal
    Wow. Just wow. This is a fantastic development. This is an excellent complement to FUSE (userspace filesystems), libUSB (userspace USB drivers), X11 (many graphics drivers), sound mixing, and all the other random stuff farmed out to userspace where possible.

    Having develpoed in both user and kernel space, I know that userspace development is vastly easier: a crash is now only a segfault, debugging can be done easily and the most suitable language for the task can be used. This makes it faster and easier to develop both robust and efficient code.

    But, come on and look at Linux: it's slowly becoming a microkernel: everything that can be in userspace is slowly moving there. And that is a good thing.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by mfh ( 56 )
      You're right about Linux, but I wouldn't want to see other OSes move towards userspace as much. The others lack the necessary support and free access to keep userspace away from asshats.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by serviscope_minor ( 664417 )
        I agree. Userspace drivers open the way for non-GPL dirvers. Whether you're idealistic or pragmatic, closed source drivers are not a good thing. Just look at the stability of the Intel graphics drivers, compared to ATI (awful) and Nvidia (quite good, but still can causes crashes).

        Sadly, UIO can be abused to make non GPL drivers. However, since there's now a nice socket, reverse engineering should be easier, and also I expect that the OSS benefits will greatly outweigh the few hardware manufacturers with mis

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Ant P. ( 974313 )
      Yeah, but at least with a kernel driver you _know_ it's crashed.

      If that X server hangs is the display just frozen, has X hard-locked the console, or is the whole thing hosed requiring a hard reset? In times like that you're left with crashing the kernel manually using the reset button because there's no other way out. KGI/GGI was supposed to solve that particular problem, but nobody seems to care.

      I've had USB devices hang the machine too, but X11 is a really bad offender.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by serviscope_minor ( 664417 )
        You'll know if a userspace driver crashes. The device will become unavailable. Then look for the coredump or logfile. But at least you have a coredump to run gdb on now.

        But X doesn't always hand the machine. Often you can ssh in and resrart at. Also, that way, you don't loose files which haven't been committed to disk.

        But it's true, userspace drives don't magically make software better. X can crash the machine, especially as it's doing funky stuff over the AGP/PCI[X] bus.

        However, X is one of many things. In

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by chill ( 34294 )
        Really? Most of the time that X has locked on me -- and it has been pretty rare -- it was either handled by a CTRL-ALT-BKSP or SSH in and kill the process. I can't remember ever having X lock the machine up to require a reboot.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by hatchet ( 528688 )
        My windowsXP never crashed. Talk about linux stability... pffft...

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by trifish ( 826353 )
      But, come on and look at Linux: it's slowly becoming a microkernel:

      In other words, it's slowly getting towards the superior desktop OS design -- the one that Windows uses. And it's really no wonder.
      • What, like how Windows has the entire X11 analogue backend and graphics drivers in the kernel? And how it has to search for up to several minutes for drivers every time you plug a USB device into a new position on the bus, as opposed to Linux' sub-second response even when it has to load modules?

        Windows is like the poster child for failed engineering. Even DirectX requires orders of magnitude more kernel/user switches than OpenGL, and they're trying to hack around it any way they can. It's just humiliating.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by trifish ( 826353 )
          What, like how Windows

          A device driver written for Windows NT4 works on Windows Vista without any modifications, whereas a device driver written for Linux kernel 2.6.18 doesn't work on (nor compile against) kernel 2.6.19.

  • That's great, but... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by xednieht ( 1117791 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:16AM (#20249767) Homepage
    Is there a way to summarize the summary page with a couple of graphics or pictures and then offer links to greater detail. That first page is a lot to digest at a glance. Weather.com does a good job summarizing mountains of info, perhaps a similar approach for the summary would help.

    Also, the xml feed is has a slight syntax error:

    XML Parsing Error: xml declaration not at start of external entity Location: http://www.linux-foundation.org/index.php?title=Li nux_Weather_Forecast&action=history&feed=atom [linux-foundation.org]
    Line Number 49, Column 1:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
    ^
    • I think it's better all in one. Makes it a lot easier to read whole chunks of info all at once instead of having to go forwards and back for each item of information. If you want to go straight to a specific point there's a TOC right at the start.

      I've got to say I really like it. Finally a single location that gives a good, concise, and easy to read summary of things to come for Linux

  • Expect ... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Midnight Thunder ( 17205 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:23AM (#20249831) Homepage Journal
    If its anything like regular weather forecasts, then expect yesterday's forecast to be better than tomorrow's, and long term forecasts to be totally random ;)
    • since it says 3.5.6 is the latest version of KDE...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by xtracto ( 837672 )
      Unless it is the UK... I always wonder why is there a weather section for the UK. Everytime I see it the forecast is the same, cloudy with rain. I think being a weather forecaster here in the UK is a heck of an easy task, you can always give the correct forecast by going with the "its gonna rane lad" choice...

  • Neato (Score:5, Funny)

    by LordPhantom ( 763327 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:26AM (#20249889)
    Cool.... now we can all shelter whenever there is a SEVERE LINUS WARNING.

    • Cool.... now we can all shelter whenever there is a SEVERE LINUS WARNING.

      The required Tanenbaum front has been too quiet and the Gnome index has been low lately to issue such warnings. All we have is CFS overcast, at worst, so far as I can tell.

      Perhaps we should get RMS and ESR to bug him a bit? Or we could lock him in a room with John Dvorak for a few hours and insist they discuss "the problem with current operating systems", until they have an RFC drafted that they both agree on?

  • Coz he doesnt like [lwn.net] weather forecast. Never have and probably never will...

  • Linux Foundation (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jshriverWVU ( 810740 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @11:30AM (#20249927)
    Not to sound lame, but what is the Linux Foundation? I know gnu fosters development of a lot of software, sourceforge hosts a lot of projects, linus and the huge team does the kernel, Ubuntu/Redhat/Debian/Suse/etc take all of the software to make a distribution. I just dont see what the LF does for the community.

    Not flaming, if they provide a good resource more power to them.

    • Re:Linux Foundation (Score:5, Informative)

      by NickFortune ( 613926 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @12:10PM (#20250479) Homepage Journal

      I just dont see what the LF does for the community.

      Well, they formed from the merger of the OSDL and the Free Standards Group. So they do everything those two thing groups did, including pay Linus to hack on the kernel.

      Looking at their about [linux-foundation.org] pahge, they also provide legal services, work to promote standards, and provide a neutral forum for debate. The also run sites like LinuxPrinting.org (as it used to be called).

      How much of that is truly useful is perhaps open to question. One of the legal services for instance is protecting the Linux trademark, which hasn't proved the most popular activity in the open source milieu. I've also seen concerns voiced about the joining procedure (you buy your way in) and the fact that the board seemed overly staffed with corporate types, with actual developers being a bit thin on the ground.

      I think the big trouble is that everyone knew who the OSDL were. This new entity is going to take a bit of getting used to. That said, they seem to be doing good things, so more power to 'em.

    • If you think the Linux Foundation is too far apart from the community, wait until you hear about the BSD Foundation on the other side of the galaxy at Star's End ...

  • My Forecast (Score:2, Insightful)

    by GooseYArd ( 96708 )
    My forecast is this forecast will be maintained for about 3 weeks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Corbet ( 5379 )
      Actually, it's already been maintained since sometime in April. Plus it's a good complement to my other kernel-watching and reporting work, which I've been maintaining for almost ten years now. How much do you wanna bet on your forecast...? :)
  • ...neither the GNOME or KDE sections had anything when we'll get a panel applet for displaying up-to-date Linux Weather Forecasts

  • I'd just like to see fewer regressions... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Erwos ( 553607 ) on Thursday August 16, 2007 @12:11PM (#20250501)
    Something that drives me particularly nuts about Linux is the number of regressions that happen. Don't get me wrong - I love Linux. But it feels like, in their haste to get things done better than ever, they sometimes reintroduce old flaws.

    Case-in-point: Firewire, and more precisely, multi-LUN support. Sounds esoteric, but it's actually not too uncommon to find hardware that needs it these days. When 2.6 came out, 1394 (as a whole) was just plain broken. They finally got it fixed in 2.6.12 or so, but then, in 2.6.22, they introduced a new Firewire stack - which promptly broke multi-LUN support. Maybe not everyone needs this, but I'm heavily dependent on it. I'm now in a position where I can't do any kernel upgrades until I've confirmed the fix has made it into 2.6.23 final.

    I know it's something of a petty gripe, but I'd appreciate it if Linus could do a better job of making sure regressions like that didn't slip back in. I don't need a repeat of the bad weather that we've already had. :)
    • Hear hear. The same kind of regression is causing havoc for thousands of Feisty users. A bug in acpi on Linux > 2.6.17 causes knotify to steal 100% cpu after linux has run for a little while. I don't think even Microsoft could leave such a regression unfixed for so long.
    • If only Linus had an army of people with a huge variety of hardware
      running release candidate kernels looking for regressions ...

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by xehonk ( 930376 )
      Actually the new firewire stack is optional, it does not break anything.
      In addition to that, multi-lun devices are supported in the firewire git repository already (which I'm currently running). I get a huge performance boost from the new stack too.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Sinical ( 14215 )
      Redhat user? The new Firewire stack was marked experimental, but at least the Redhat folks decided that the benefits of the (much) better security model were worth it. Actually, I think Debian has gone to it now, too (?). Basically, it was *known* that there would be regressions, and the new stack was inserted to give a wider group of people a chance to try it, which suddenly led to various distros jumping all over it.

      The new stack is 1/3rd the size of the old and discards a lot of garbage. There're rea

  • User space covers GNOME and KDE -- but not X? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I find that rather odd, seeing as some of the most important changes we see happen not in Linux, Gnome, or KDE, but in Xorg.

    Then again, what about some other projects? GCC, for instances? Improvements to GCC could potentially improve a vast number of Linux programs. Maybe that ought to be included in the forecast?

    The list of important projects could really go on for a while...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Corbet ( 5379 )
      In fact, there's no end of other things which could be covered here - I agree. Just keeping up with the kernel is challenge enough for the moment. The scope will be expanded when it is possible.
  • We can expect calm CPU usage, 24 to 36% for the next three hours, but I can assure you that there is not going to be a hurricane in Wales.
  • ...they introduce pleasant-looking weatherwoman, and cheesy muzak.
  • Personally, I'd rather have a "linux-kernel flamewar fire threat gauge"

    I'd check that hourly.
    • Low: Peace and harmony, everyone must be on vacation this week
      Moderate: Noobs complaining about nVidia driver crashes
      Elevated: Linus just tried GNOME... again
      High: Con Kolivas and Ingo Molnar go mano-a-mano over scheduling algorithms
      Extreme: Hans Reiser is back, and he's armed, dangerous, and off his meds!
    • Just RSS the Linux Kernel Mailing List. Instant kernel flame war notification.

      There's somewhat of a flame war going on right now about filesystems.

      Good entertainment.
  • Mountain Dew in the morning, damp throughout the day, and 0% chance of showers.

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