How Open Source Has Influenced Windows Server 2008 145
willdavid writes to tell us that Sam Ramji over at Port25 has a nice succinct list of the major open source principles that have been used while developing Windows Server 2008. "Overall, we've learned and continue to learn from open source development principles. These are making their way into the mindset, development practices, and ultimately into the products we bring to market. I've focused here on 'what Microsoft has learned from Open Source' - and ironically, I've agreed to do a panel at OSBC on 3/25 with Jim Zemlin of the Linux Foundation on 'what Open Source can learn from Microsoft'. As all of the different organizations in IT continue to evolve, we'll learn from each others' best practices and make increasingly better software. As in science, this incremental improvement will move all of us forward."
What they can learn (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait, wait...how to release commercial software on par with an untested, alpha Linux flavor and have all their customers switch back to an old version?
Or maybe how to give consumers what they "want"?
Embrace, extend, extinguish? (Score:4, Insightful)
What FOSS can learn from MS? (Score:4, Insightful)
Star Trek analogy (Score:4, Insightful)
-Bring it up on the main screen.
We are Microsoft. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be Embraced.
Open source development principles? (Score:5, Insightful)
What are those, exactly? I'll bet he couldn't name them. I'll bet no one can. It's a bazaar, not a cathedral!
Re:What they can learn (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Close... (Score:1, Insightful)
Maybe the open source part really isn't the important part of building good open source software? The open part gets you developers that work mostly for free, but MS already has plenty of developers, so opening doesn't benefit them.
Open Source has Learned From Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
It is ludicrous to think that a product that can be made cheaper and better should be put asunder because some powerful monopoly can influence the powers that be. There's no socialistic tendencies there. No communistic tendencies. It is pure capitalism that is being thwarted by Microsoft's practices. Microsoft is a bully, an entity that has one goal and that is to rake in all the money while destroying the competition and they are doing that with their monopoly.
Your privacy is being violated hundreds of millions of times a day by Microsoft with WGA/WGN and Vista's equivalent. They are able to get away with it because they don't take competition seriously because they don't have to. Would you go out and pay $2000 for a TV from Best Buy and then allow Best Buy to enter your home to verify that you didn't actually receive stolen property? What if they want to do that every week or every month (inspect your home for stolen goods)? What if they say that they'll do this with a hidden camera? Would you permit it? Say you buy frequently form Walmart. Would you permit Walmart to enter your home to inspect your property to prove you didn't steal it from the store? I think not. You wouldn't let your neighbor enter your home upon accusations that you stole something from him. You wouldn't let the police enter your home even if the neighbor filed a complaint.
What the open source community practices has learned is that Microsoft is the type of entity that uses "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" tactic to kill solid technology and those companies trying to bring them to market. The open source community has learned that Microsoft has threatened every Linux user with 235 alleged patents claiming everyone will have a price to pay to Microsoft, without Microsoft stating specifically what is being violated. This is like an oil company stating that they are going to sue car owners for using gasoline from one of their competitors because their competitor may have allegedly use some of the IP in the gas refining process. Then they threaten the car manufacturers or large companies that use that same gasoline with lawsuits if they don't stop using the competitors gasoline. Then they refuse to say which competitors and they refuse to say which IP has been violated. BTW, that IP was probably stolen by them to begin with.
We've learned from Microsoft that they will steal IP from small entities and when caught will ignore those companies request to have Microsoft pay up. Z4 Technologies is one of those companies. In this case Microsoft was contacted about their use of the IP developed by this firm for the purpose of over the internet product activation. According to the final ruling which went in favor of Z4 Microsoft knew they were in violation of the IP of Z4 and they continued to use it. During the trial they flooded the court and Z4 with paperwork in hopes of covering it up. The day before the trial began Z4 found the evidence. Z4 won the trial and were granted approximately $100 million. In the ruling the Judge noted numerous acts of misconduct on Microsoft's part and though he could have awarded 3 times the amount he only awarded an additional $25 million in special damages (which is no small amount by any measure). The Judge also noted that Microsoft had participated in these acts because they believe that Z4 was to small and to weak to defend their own IP. Upon appeal Microsoft lost with the Judge also noting the numerous acts of misconduct. With the latest appeal of this Microsoft lost that as well with all awards in tact.
But what you must understand from this is that Microsoft stole the IP of Z4 which Microsoft used to keep you from stealing their IP. So, they stole the technology
Re:What FOSS can learn from MS? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you don't want your OS to become the dominant OS in the PC market, yes.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with that. (Score:5, Insightful)
It may not have been what you wanted them to learn, though. Frankly, a Microsoft may (metaphorically) buy things at your church bake sale or play basketball with your kids, but they're never going to convert to your religion.
How Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
Well this is interesting, whenever Open Source tries to learn from Microsoft Steve 'rabid-monkey-man' Ballmer starts throwing around software/idea patent threats [slashdot.org].
If this is an incremental process that can move us all forward, how about Microsoft offer up their patents to the OSDL Patent Commons [coverpages.org]? Or just allow Free/Open Source software developers to work without threat of being sued? Oh yeah, they'd rather reserve the right to sue anyone [groklaw.net] who dares to even look at their markets.
Re:Close... (Score:3, Insightful)
The joke that is port25.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What FOSS can learn from MS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The joke that is port25.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, OSS can learn from Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
- Run a study on user-usability: OSS can hire or contract an established and well-known 'GUI usability' expert/company and let every top OSS products that directly used by the end user to consult to them.
- Embrace
- Ms. Exchange?
- More GUI for everything: Stop forcing us to edit some shady configuration file.
- Out of box Linux distro should be just like Windows': Just some basic programs (notepad, file manager, paint, etc.), but packed with more drivers for lots of stuff.
We don't need amaroK, MPlayer, tvtime, Gimp, and KDevelop out of the box just like we don't need Winamp, VLC, AFM2000, Photoshop and Delphi on Windows. Thanks to package managers, we can just click here and there, and have them available in a couple of minutes. Not having drivers, now that's a show-stopper.
- MSDN: Seriously.. we need MSDN-like website for Linux. Running around the web for some API, and stuff in Linux. While on the M$ side we can get everything from Win32,
The problem: they do not pay for their lessons (Score:2, Insightful)
But then, they will not pay. They _claim_ to care about "intellectual property". But only when a _laywer_ that can _sue_ them, they will _respect_ the lessons to be something of value.
So I will be glad when they are destroyed, once for all, and everybody else trying to _exploit_ others' work will have something to fear for.
I mean, Microsoft _invented_ the notion that you should be paid for the _same_ work over and over and over and over again. Only they profited from that. And if you are not a Microsoft shill, you will _have_ to agree that this was unethical.
Now they "learn" from Open Source? Well, even if they do, do they compensate those who taught them something?
I guess not. So this planet will be better off if Microsoft dies a _violent_ death, discouraging all those parasites out there, trying to behave like Microsoft, too.
Re:What FOSS can learn from MS? (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows' dominance has pretty little to do with Windows per se. Microsoft got lucky (and that "luck" is remarkably disputable as it seems possible they set IBM up) when they launched Windows 3 and abandoned OS/2 development to rename OS/2 3.0 as NT. Windows 3, 3.1, WfW were very popular partly because software makers embraced them. Shortly after that, Microsoft inked highly desirable exclusive deals with OEMs and _that_, not Windows, like the clever deal with IBM about exclusivity and PC-DOS that allowed the clone industry to exist, was key to their position in the market now.
Very little changed.
If Linux is ever to get the dominance Microsoft enjoys today, the key is not R&D but the relationship with OEMs and software makers.
Re:Cue Henry Spencer quote (Score:3, Insightful)
REJOICE, MY GEEK BROTHERS! YOU NEED NO LONGER FEAR CLOSED SOURCE! IT WILL NOT REFUSE TO WORK FOR YOU MERELY BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE THE SOURCE CODE!
Come on now. The freedom to change the code is in no way a feature of the software. It's entirely separate from the software, and if my software isn't doing what I need it to do, it doesn't matter whether the source is closed or open. That software sucks for my purposes, open or closed.
Re:I'm going to respectfully disagree with that. (Score:3, Insightful)
And take a look at Active Directory. It's builot on the open standards of Kerberos, dynamic DNS, DHCP, LDAP, and the like, all woven together and proprietized in ways that not break compatibility. This includes oddnesses done to Kerberos, which MIT sued over and for which the Kerberos patches were very quickly published by MIT to fix the compatibility breakage. It's also taken years for the Samba team to reverse engineer and make a stable Active Directory replacement service, because they're refused to publish what they "extended" onto the open standard applications.
This behavior is one of the best reasons I can see for using GPL rather than the so-called "more free" licenses, because GPL style licenses actually protect us better from this sort of embrace and extend behavior.
Yes, they've learned how to steal from the very best and then make it "theirs".