Forgot your password?
typodupeerror

Same Dev Tools/Language/Framework For Everyone? 519

Posted by kdawson
from the one-size-fits-none dept.
AC writes "Upper management of the company I work at recently declared that all new development should be done with a single combination of development tools, language, and framework. The main rationale is that people can be relocated from one group / project to another faster, because they don't need to learn a new environment when they switch. Of course the chosen language / framework used by everybody does not need to be the best tool for the job, but it should be good enough to allow every project to get done. What does Slashdot think about this? Is it OK to use the same development tools and language for every project, instead of choosing what fits best? Will the time saved be sufficient to offset the time lost to the 'not the best tool for the job' environment developers will be forced to use?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Same Dev Tools/Language/Framework For Everyone?

Comments Filter:
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @12:24AM (#24095011)

    All major languages are isomorphic and equally powerful (see Church-Turing thesis), so it should be possible for any programmer to use any language he or she wants to when working on any project, no matter what the existing code base is in. Sadly, the current generation of developer tools does not support this, though there are some promising next-gen projects which may solve allow this. Google "language-oriented programming" for more info on this.

    In the mean time, the best approach is different languages for different tasks. If management refuses to accept this, I suggest you recommend INTERCAL as the standard language. It's a mature language (>30 years old) with many features not found in any other language.

  • by CodeBuster (516420) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @12:41AM (#24095171)

    The only thing worse for it is hiring "managment consultants" to "streamline" the process.

    Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

  • by EEPROMS (889169) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @12:48AM (#24095243)
    So you have tried emacs too huh.
  • by forkazoo (138186) <wrosecrans AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @01:14AM (#24095539) Homepage

    Developer Centric Individualized Standardisation.

    Look forward to my upcoming book on the subject:
    Development 2.0 : Practical Perfection With The "DeCISt" Paradigm in the Enterprise.

    Seriously, a year or so ago, a friend of mine and I were just about ready to write a book about the benefits of procedural programming in C using a simple text editor, and then just buzzword the shit out of it and hype it up like Xtreme Programming and such, and pretend it was a new revelation. For the life of me, I can't remember what we were going to call it. Something like the Post Object Paradigm, or Modern Objectless Development, or some such shit. We would have made millions if we weren't lazy asses.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @01:35AM (#24095709)
    How big is the company?

    If it's big enough you can rely on picking the right tool for the job... developers simply chose the tool and compete based on who can implement the software best measured by customer satisfaction reports, rather than bugs or performance. Rather than directing outcomes we foster a system based on evolutionary theory. Developers are pitted against each other, and the weak developers get stabbed or maybe scalped. The Head Developer wears a necklace of threaded ears and walks around the office taking his share of the women and of food and clothing. Every night a fire burns and the drum beat calls developers out to compete for their very lives. Generations later Alpha developers will rise to feast on their flesh, crush our enemies, see them driven before us, and we will hear the lamentations of their women.

    This will really only work at large companys though :(

    ps. Hi gordon in #jelliffefans...bring your A game!

  • by forkazoo (138186) <wrosecrans AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @01:49AM (#24095817) Homepage

    I can't tell if you're making fun of Extreme Programming proper, the way it is defined here: Fowler tract.

    It strikes me as pretty cool... Just an unfortunate name.

    I was making fun of extreme programming. Honestly, I don't have a problem with it. It is just one of those things that, if you investigate the core philosophy, is all eminently reasonable, and is something that evolved to address real world concerns. OTOH, if you move beyond the core philosophy and talk to some of the narrow minded ideologues and idiotic buzzwordologists, then extreme programming can move from something perfectly reasonable to being something perfectly in need of being made fun of! :)

    My only real issue is all the hype that surrounds "XP" and "agile development" such that some of the virtue gets lost of the noise of "exciting" and "new." If I could pull off that kind of buzz for Xtreme Classless Proceduralism, I'm sure that PHB's everywhere would be lining up around the block to learn new and exciting ways to force their developers to upgrade to my special 800 dollar version of vi, so that they can code in new and exciting C.

    Which reminds me, I also need to figure out someway to write a book about a paradigm called "Write Once, Run Once" to promote development of incredibly unreliable code.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @02:11AM (#24095979)

    >Developers are pitted against each other, and the weak developers get stabbed or maybe scalped. The Head Developer wears a necklace of
    >threaded ears and walks around the office taking his share of the women and of food and clothing. Every night a fire burns and the drum
    >beat calls developers out to compete for their very lives.

    So Intel hasn't really changed at all?

  • by vux984 (928602) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @02:43AM (#24096187)

    Whoosh.

    BOB SLYDELL
    So what you do is you take the specifications from the customers and
    you bring them down to the software engineers?

    TOM
    That, that's right.

    BOB PORTER
    Well, then I gotta ask, then why can't the customers just take the
    specifications directly to the software people, huh?

    TOM
    Well, uh, uh, uh, because, uh, engineers are not good at dealing with
    customers.

    BOB SLYDELL
    You physically take the specs from the customer?

    TOM
    Well, no, my, my secretary does that, or, or the fax.

    BOB SLYDELL
    Ah.

    BOB PORTER
    Then you must physically bring them to the software people.

    TOM
    Well...no. Yeah, I mean, sometimes.

    BOB SLYDELL
    Well, what would you say... you do here?

    TOM
    Well, look, I already told you. I deal with the goddamn customers so
    the engineers don't have to!! I have people skills!! I am good at
    dealing with people!!! Can't you understand that?!? WHAT THE HELL IS
    WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!!!!!!!

    http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Office-Space.html [imsdb.com]

  • by jcr (53032) <jcr@nOspAm.mac.com> on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @02:59AM (#24096287) Journal

    If someone is good at something, ferchrissake KEEP THEM THERE!

    I see that finishing a project appears to be a foreign concept to you.

    -jcr

  • by dredwerker (757816) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @03:11AM (#24096359)
    I thought you meant - write it once then run out the door to the next job once.
  • by xero314 (722674) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @03:22AM (#24096429)

    Sure, and while they're at it, let's give all the mechanics just one size of wrench and screwdriver.

    I am so sick of this analogy, as it's completely inaccurate. Programming languages, at least full featured languages, are a whole set of tools, not a single tool. Comparing Java to C is more like comparing Craftsman to Snap-on, different brands of tools but they can both be used to do the same thing. If you can give you mechanics a single tool that can be used in all their tasks, like a sonic screwdriver, then do it. If the language isn't full featured, or cover all your needs, then don't use it.

    And conversely, each project team should be free to evaluate the best tools to get each job done.

    This is exactly what you need to do if you want to guarantee that you have to continue with the team you have or hiring nothing but experienced senior developers. Keep the number of tools simple and you can have a small number of leads and many interns to do the same amount of work with a much higher over all quality and considerably less cost.

    If anyone thinks that limiting a computer scientist's choice of tools is a good idea, you should kick that manager to the curb.

    If anyone thinks that hiring computer scientist's to do anything other than research and theory is a good idea, you should kick that manager to the curb.

  • by beav007 (746004) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @03:56AM (#24096633) Journal
    He works for Google.
  • by laejoh (648921) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @06:31AM (#24097621)
    Ah, a duke-nukem developer!
  • by CmdrGravy (645153) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @06:34AM (#24097635) Homepage

    For some reason, my bosses seem to think that if I don't appear as working at a particular point in time, I'm not working at all.

    ... and posting on Slashdot can often make it look like I'm working, when I'm not.

  • by edittard (805475) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @06:55AM (#24097755)

    Or some excel printouts, with graphs. Vaguely scribble and circle bits of them at random. And make it so the lines are always trending up.

  • by ArhcAngel (247594) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @09:27AM (#24099073)

    It helps job security though. Who cares about productivity when they are paying for you to add skills to your resume.

    I can surmise by your post you are not a coder. As a recovering coder (I've been code free for 12 years) I can tell you that once a coder is addicted to a particular language changing languages is the equivalent of cutting off one of your limbs. Withdrawal symptoms can be severe and disruptive including the shakes, paranoia, and a condition that strikingly resembles turrets syndrome. There have been coders in recent years that appear to be able to switch languages with relative ease but studies on these coders have not been conducted and it is suspected that they could go off in a fit of rage at any moment and should be approached with extreme trepidation.

  • by Foolicious (895952) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @10:16AM (#24099691)

    Withdrawal symptoms can be severe and disruptive including the shakes, paranoia, and a condition that strikingly resembles turrets syndrome.

    You forgot the night terrors. [shiver] It's hard to get past the night terrors...

  • by Darth Android (989471) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @10:59AM (#24100309) Homepage
    Bad analogy (no cars). It's more of the case of Ferraris, Hummers, Monster Trucks, and Volkswagon Beetles with tires.
  • He likes the interface better.
  • by zuggy40 (951875) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @01:25PM (#24102687)

    There have been coders in recent years that appear to be able to switch languages with relative ease but studies on these coders have not been conducted and it is suspected that they could go off in a fit of rage at any moment and should be approached with extreme trepidation.

    These would be web developers and should be approached with extreme caution becaause they could snap at any moment

  • Screwed (Score:3, Funny)

    by Alex Belits (437) * on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @01:47PM (#24103035) Homepage

    This is one of situations where all I can say is:

    If your problem requires this solution, then it is actually unsolvable, and you are all screwed.

  • by bonehead (6382) on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @03:47PM (#24104813)

    I've found that no matter how ridiculously much you're actually goofing off, if you do it with a vaguely annoyed and frustrated expression on your face, people will think you're working your ass off.

    Give it a try.

Almost anything derogatory you could say about today's software design would be accurate. -- K.E. Iverson

Working...