Programming Jobs Abroad For a US Citizen? 836
An anonymous reader writes "I am a American citizen with a masters in Computer Science from a 3rd tier college and 4 years of work experience under my belt. I would like to work somewhere abroad in Europe for a couple years before I get too settled in life but have no clue where to start. I only speak English but would love to learn a second language. What sort of opportunities are there for American citizens to work abroad? What countries offer the best opportunity to balance a challenging work environment with enough vacation to explore the rest of Europe in my free time? Any hassles I should know about?"
tier? (Score:5, Interesting)
I was not aware US colleges had some sort of official tier. Who defines these tiers? What are the criteria?
English at work countries... (Score:5, Interesting)
What opportunities? (Score:1, Interesting)
What sort of opportunities are there for American citizens to work abroad?
None whatsoever, as a general rule. All countries (and EU) protect their labor market and do not allow foreigners to just come and work. And the USA does the same. Basically you will need a work visa which usually requires some sponsorship from a local company, and you need to allow some time (years?) for the paperwork to get through. Without such arrangements you will be in position of a Mexican who illegally crossed the border.
IMO, the only possibility to quickly move out and start working is in gaining employment with a US company that has offices in other countries. This way you can be hired here and then transferred abroad with no questions asked.
Re:What opportunities for a European in the USA (Score:1, Interesting)
There's nothing funnier than critiquing grammar and getting it wrong yourself.
'They're' wouldn't make sense as it means 'they are'. He meant to say 'there are', which doesn't have a contraction version, unless you count 'there's', and that's a little dodgy.
Africa would be a better deal (Score:5, Interesting)
I submit to you that with your programming skills, you could gain valuable experience imparting knowledge and working in the developing world. One thing I'd like to advise you on, is to have a very open mind in case you decide to go to Africa. Africa is not what CNN, ABC, CBS and FOX show the American public. It's much more lively and socially better than USA in some cases.
I was in for a shock when on my very first visit to Africa, I met a country (Uganda) with pretty modest infrastructure compared to what I had in mind. I had to get used to the food though. I met Americans who decided years ago to call Africa home.
There are tonnes of dollars from the American government going to Africa through agencies like CARE, USAID, Americares, UNICEFUSA and many others.
So be open and brave man and consider Africa.
bullshit (Score:5, Interesting)
None whatsoever, as a general rule. All countries (and EU) protect their labor market and do not allow foreigners to just come and work.
You do need to get a job offer and get the paperwork done ahead of time, but there are no significant problems for high-tech workers to get work permits in European nations: the process is generally quick and pretty painless.
Geekcorp or the like (Score:3, Interesting)
kdawson : Netherlands would be a good choice (Score:1, Interesting)
@ kdawson,
The Netherlands is a great place to work as a foreigner, everyone speaks english, and there are some special constructions setup for what are called "Knowledge Migrants", which allow IT and highly technical skilled workers, among others, emigrate into and obtain work status more easily through a sponsorship program from a company seeking such skilled workers.
Plus, depending on the terms of the sponsoring company, you may be able to apply for the 30% tax ruling, reducing your overall income tax by 30% for the first 10 years in NL.
Additionally, there's the Dutch-American Friendship agreement, which if you are willing to be a free-lance contractor, enables you to easily setup a company with minimal foreign capital investment, allowing you to work as a self-employed person.
Check out http://www.expatica.com/
Get a good immigration lawyer to help you out. It'll cost a little, but will go far to prevent you from getting in any sort of legal bind, which you don't want when you are a guest in that country.
Cheers & Good luck
Crypto
Go for a masters abroad - Plenty of work on campus (Score:3, Interesting)
There are very strong English language masters programs available in engineering schools and universities in Sweden [www.ltu.se] and Finland [www.tkk.fi] (also this one [www.uta.fi]), and presumably the rest of Scandinavia as well.
You haven't lived till you've biked over a frozen lake or read a book in perfect daylight at 2AM. Some schools have industries right next to campus to tap the student labor force and nearly all the universities have ample jobs for masters students right there on campus. This is also the perfect choice to allow you to maximize your vacation opportunities - Cheap student rates and lengthy school breaks. A university is also the ideal environment in which to study the language, both in a formal setting and with the students that are much more used to dealing with foreigners on a daily basis than the rest of the population.
That said, there's plenty of sysadmin jobs abroad under the employ of the US government, if you're willing to give up on coding at work for a while. See usajobs.gov and careers.state.gov. Simplifies dealing with visas and such.
Maybe Sweden? (Score:5, Interesting)
Without knowing too much details about the alternatives it seems to me that Sweden would fit your bill nicely for the following reasons:
* Large IT-sector which regularly accepts English-speaking foreign labor in their workforce with no demands for knowing any Swedish.
* English is the second language and is spoken more or less fluently among most of the population (especially the younger one), more so than in Germany, France or Finland.
* Safe, generally non-violent place with all kinds of security nets if things would go wrong, like (almost) free hospitals.
* 25 days of vacation per year guaranteed by law. Most people have 4 weeks of continuous vacation during the summer which is a great time to travel around the rest of Europe.
Only thing speaking against Sweden as far as I can see is that it might not be exotic enough for your taste since it both culturally and geographically is quite close to your neighbor in north, Canada.
Belgium (Score:2, Interesting)
Try the Bangalore route (Score:2, Interesting)
As an aside, if I were you, I would love to have some India experience under my belt--from a long term career growth perspective. Sooner or later, you will end up partnering with Bangalore folks for your IT projects. Many US companies are realizing that and getting mid/senior management to spend time in India (for software operations) and China (for hardware/manufacturing operations) to know the culture, processes, etc.
Re:elect obama (Score:3, Interesting)
To where?
Almost any other place in the world have higher taxes than the US, so unless the taxes goes over 50% in total you can forget that argument.
Germany (Score:3, Interesting)
According to my German wife, there is a fair amount of opportunity in Germany (she cited Berlin specifically). Well, that was a couple years ago. But, it's still worth checking out.
Also, apparently you can get by fairly well with English only in the larger cities. So, that should help you acclimate.
You also might want to consider other English speaking countries such as New Zealand. Wikipedia actually has a list of countries that have English as an official language. So, you might want to check that out.
As a last note, I'd shy away from the UK as the violence there is getting bad enough that there are reports of people leaving because of it. Not to mention all the Orwellian BS.
Hope that helps. Good luck.
Re:elect obama (Score:2, Interesting)
McCain's health plan involves taxing the insurance premiums your employer pays for your health insurance, an amount that is currently untaxed. So, McCain is effectively for raising taxes. While you are living in this fictional world where Republicans are "fiscal conservatives", and Democrats "tax and spend", I think I'll take a look at real evidence to the contrary.
Actually, McCain poached that idea from Obama. Both of those candidates think that taxing employer's health-care spending to cover government health-care spending is a good idea.
Now, since you're so fond of "real evidence," I'll point out that the biggest of our "big oil" is #13 on the world stage. You'll need to point fingers elsewhere if you want a scapegoat for the world price of oil.
Mandating ethanol production was another great idea. We simultaneously raised tariffs on imported ethanol (Brazil can make ethanol a lot cheaper from cane sugar than we can from corn) to ensure that the cash grab for "big agriculture" worked.
The price of oil and the price of corn together control the price of everything we buy. Corn is used in livestock feed, meaning raising cattle is more expensive. This also affects the price of soap, which is made from animal fat.
But, for everyone concerned exclusively with the manufacturing sector and the trade debt, a weak dollar is a good thing. Our exports are cheaper, and our imports are costlier. The two together mean more exports, fewer imports, and a leaner trade deficit. (Unless you're living in a fantasy world with a strong dollar and strong exports.)
But, no, you're right - Bush (is his name spelled with a dollar sign? I forget) hit the "make gas expensive" button and at this very moment is reclining in a poofy high-backed chair, stroking a white, long-haired cat, you know, from the Fancy Feast(tm) commercials, laughing at the genious of his evil conspiracy.
On topic,(trolls need food, too, in these hard economic times) if I wanted a programming job outside of America, I wouldn't head to Europe. (There may be very well be software engineering jobs there, but I haven't heard of them.) I know that China sends their ("regular") engineers here to be educated, and then they return home for employment. As the wealth of their population rises, and even more people start buying computers, I can see (with my magic crystal ball) demand for software rising.
So, I'd say "learn Mandarin and go to China," but if you only know English and you're looking for a job now, it's not a language you're going to be able to just "pick up" in a year.
Japan is where a lot of the video game industry is, so it could be fun looking for a programming job there. But, the market for PCs in Japan is shrinking (their cell phones are amazing and replace most uses of a PC) so there's probably not much future in "regular" software over there. And again, you're not going to be able to pick up Japanese very quickly, either, although a lot of people over there speak English. (Besides, I'm told that the Japanese aren't very friendly to foreign workers; that a foreigner taking a Japanese job will always be unwelcome. At least that's what a friend of mine said when he came back this semester, so your mileage may vary. I'd expect younger folk to be more forgiving.)
So... good luck? Spanish is an easy language to learn, but there aren't any programming jobs in Latin America, and Spain is having its own economic crisis. (You think fuel prices are high here? They're even higher there, and they had a trucker's strike not too long ago.) Germany seems to be doing better than most, so if you feel you must leave America, I guess learn German. Or maybe enroll yourself in a study abroad coarse, sate your wanderlust, and come back.
If you plan on working in Europe permanantly, maybe learn more than one European language. It's funny watching people argue over what the target value of the Euro should be when Spain is having inflation problems and Germany is having liquidity problems. No matter what direction interest rates and the value of the Euro move, it's going to be painful for some country's economy, so hop to another one.
Re:Try France. (Score:2, Interesting)
That's not been my experience, have had a blast in Paris. Just try to speak a little French, it's not that hard.
How would you react to a someone speaking French asking for directions out of your Kansas wheat field there billy-bob ?
Re:elect obama (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The Netherlands (Score:2, Interesting)
But, as far as cities go, Amsterdam does have something if you want an active and diverse city. The Hague (Den Haag) is a good place to have a quiet beer with you and your friends, but it's not really a party town, and there are far too many guys for girls, due to the nature of expat demographics. Delft is boring. Leiden is nice if you want a small main-street city with everything you need, plus it also has more women thanks to the University's soft subject focus. Rotterdam is big and lively but has no old-city, thanks to the War. Whatever you do, live in the Randstadt (between Amsterdam, Den Haag, Rotterdam, & Utrecht) or you'll be out in the sticks.
Re:elect obama (Score:5, Interesting)
I think you're half right and half wrong. Speaking as one of probably only a handful of English speaking foreigners who holds down an IT job in Japan outside of Tokyo, it's a tough place to get into. A lot of people who claim the Japanese are hard on foreigners have a huge chip on their shoulder and far too often mistake legitimate job rejection for racism. Put yourself in a Japanese employer's shoes - you're interviewing 5 candidates, 4 of whom are native Japanese speakers and 1 who can barely string together a basic conversation. Who is going to be the easier to work with. Given that the interview process is often more about finding reasons to reject than reasons to employ (in any culture), it's a no brainer that the foreigner is going to have a very tough time unless they've studied the language to a pretty high level.
That said, in my experience if there are jobs that do benefit from having a foreigner in the position (which sadly are very very few), companies will often bend over backwards to assist you overcome the language barrier, which the Japanese themselves recognize as a huge problem.
If you're willing to put up with the unbearable heat and stifling humidity of Tokyo or perhaps Osaka, there are opportunities there with both Japanese and foreign firms. I personally know an IT recruiter/headhunter there who specializes in foreign recruits, and he must have opportunities because he keeps hitting me up with questions about whether I'm looking for anything.
Videogames are an extremely unlikely route in though. Visit any web forum relating to employment in Japan and you'll see a queue a mile long of foreigners wanting to find out how to get into either a) manga art or b) videogames programming in Japan. And this doesn't even touch on the fact that a large number of Japanese kids grow up wanting to to do the same, so it's a fiercely difficult industry to get into even for homegrown talent.
Just as an aside, I will pick you up on one point. Contrary to popular belief, most developed countries have more or less caught up with Japan now cellphone wise. It's true that in the past Japan was well ahead of everything else, but more recently the handsets that are coming out, particularly in Europe, have pretty similar feature sets to what's available over here.
Re:elect obama (Score:2, Interesting)
But, if I was the one going to another country, I'd want to speak the language first, if only to not promote a few choice stereotypes about Americans... (I speak Spanish more or less fluently, and I know enough Japanese to find the bathroom. Maybe.)
Hmmm... India is like Europe. Except for a few northern states, every state has it's own language. (Indian currency carries 17 languages. :) ) How many can/will you learn :)
Re:Try France. (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think so. Lots of Europeans dislike the US government and are "concerned" (to put it midly) about the american people because of http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/22/opinion/polls/main657083.shtml [cbsnews.com]. We can understand the Bush-phenomena since all countries have that kind of politicians, but it's a bit harder to understand the 19th century mentality of (the majority of?) americans.
However, most americans who come here (Europe) to work or study are rational and civilized (at least the ones I've met) and therefore appreciated. (Except for the missionaries, who are seen as some kind of excotic animals.)
A job in Germany... (Score:4, Interesting)
Hello original submitter - I have no idea if you'll read this or not, since it's probably destined to be buried right at the bottom of your view, well below MANY pointless discussions about things completely offtopic.
The company I work for, in Germany, is currently looking for a programmer type working closely with me (also a programmer). The job is about 25% actual coding, 50% helping other programmers with our own specific API and 25% other stuff (including various kinds of planning meetings, lots of travel around Europe and occasional travel outside of Europe (Japan being the most common, but US from time to time also)).
We're looking for someone with good C# knowledge, since that's what our API is based around, however strong Java and web-based skills is also a very big plus for something else we'll be doing quite soon.
I've actually already passed on one slashdotter's resume (a guy from Chicago) to my boss, and we have NO problem looking outside of Germany (we're required to look within Germany first, but the response has been less than stellar so far, so once we've finished looking inside Germany, we'll open it up to anyone, anywhere). I myself also do not come from Europe originally, so I myself am pretty good evidence we'll hire from anywhere if we need to. English is the defacto standard language for business in our company since we're the European HQ of a large multi-national. German is good to learn for "day to day life" here, but it's definitely not required for work.
If you're interested, please send me an email - my slashdot username minus the last 3 characters at Google's mail provider.
(if the other slashdotter who I have already talked to about this job reads this - don't worry, we haven't forgotten you or thrown away your resume - you're still in the running as well)
Re:tier? (Score:1, Interesting)
what i love about "ask slashdot" is that the subject spawns lots of comments and several long discussions. but the question is seldom if ever answered
Re:Try France. (Score:2, Interesting)
Should you not believe me, here [wikipedia.org] is the whole thing.
Re:Try France. (Score:3, Interesting)
I also don't know of any international corporations that use French as the corporate language.
I work for a French multinational. Company policy is that the local language is to be used for meetings at each site. So German is the official language at our sites in Germany, English is standard in Australia, the US and the UK. French is obviously used in France.
Re:tier? (Score:1, Interesting)
If you really believe that, you are desperately naive.
I've worked in systems engineering at some of the largest companies in the world. By the time I left the industry I was working in the $200,000K/year bracket. (Yes, I was making that much money doing technical systems work, not management. It's possible when you work for people who are serious enough about their infrastructure.) I worked alongside people in the same pay bracket who had never gone to college, who had dropped out, who had been to random no-name public universities, and people with degrees in completely unrelated fields. One of my most talented (and well paid) co-workers had a degree in Saxophone from a conservatory. For most serious IT jobs, the interview is just a technical test of your skills. It makes no difference to them where (or what or even if) you studied. If you can demonstrate your skills, that's what is considered in the end.
Of course, if you want a job based on your resume or your pedigree instead of your skills, you can always try to get a government job or work for a monopoly that doesn't have to be competitive (*cough* cable TV companies *cough*) .
Re:coding in europe (Score:2, Interesting)
DO COME! I repeat: DO COME TO WORK IN EU!
Sure, the wages here are less than in the USA but do not only consider that part, I mean what's the use of money? To have a good life would be my answer. You can have a good life in Europe not having a USA salary... And also, you can learn a lot from Europe (don't get me wrong, this is not a pride-statement: I meant "from Europe as well as from any part of the world: no less no more but still a lot to learn from"). Your wish to travel in Europe, to visit the countries is a very good idea IMHO: it can only open your mind. I'd also suggest not to stop there (and i hope and think you won't: when you start traveling, it gets in your blood and you can't stop it!)
Here are a few other hints...
First of all, you won't have trouble in finding a computer-science job in Europe (as in many parts of the world), I "searched" a job in France and Spain (searching meaning putting my resume in monster and infojobs and waiting for offers) and had no problems in finding one. With an American masters in computer-science and 4 years of experience... just pick a job.
Now, if you want to visit all Europe you won't have any problem: there are a lot of low-cost airlines (ryanair is the most famous but there are dozens of other companies), there are train-tickets valid in all Europe (EuRail: http://www.eurail.com/ [eurail.com]). That's quite cheap (I come back from a 2-weeks journey over Europe that cost me around $1000...). As for the vacations, I think Europeans countries generally have a minimum vacation days greater than US (> 5 weeks in France, 4 weeks in Spain, ...). You'll be able to travel!
The language might be a problem in some countries. In Spain and France at least, not many people speak English (I'm not speaking of the job environment but of the daily-life) but well... I know American people here in Madrid that didn't know Spanish at all when coming here and they live fine. Moreover if you want to learn the language of the country you're leaving in that's better! If you want to speak English in the street, I'd suggest you go to Germany, Netherlands and northern countries. If you want to learn a language you can use after your Europe experience (if you don't chose to stay :-)), Spanish would be an obvious great choice... As for the wages/price of life, generally the northern you get, the bigger the figures are.
Re:English at work countries... (Score:3, Interesting)
Lessons from 8 years in Europe and Australia (Score:2, Interesting)
I lived and worked in Europe for a year, and then Australia for 7 years and it was the best time of my life. I even started our family overseas.
In a customer service/professional service type job, we had plenty of opportunity to travel all over, some places job related, and some not. London was a great jumping off point to the rest of Europe.
Things to be aware of:
When your return with a wealth of international experience, be prepared to deal with ignorant dweebs in HR departments who discount the value of that experience. You might also notice that your friends are now directors or VP's in companies and you're not.
I ended up starting my own consulting business. Some years are great, and others not but I wouldn't trade my world travel experience for anything.
Finally, save, save save. You'll need a stack of cash when you return. We returned with no house, no car, no job, family of four. So what did we do? We started two companies. I'd say 150K-200K to buy a house, a car or two, and start your own consulting business and subsidize living expenses for the first year.
For those who are still in college: Take a year between Junior and Senior and travel to find yourself. You'll be a better person and learn to appreciate what a great Land of Unlimited Opportunity the USA is (words from a German friend of mine).
Flame bait: With nearly 10 years of total world travel experience, I'm convinced that some parts of the world only hate us because they want to be us (or have what we have worked hard for) and they can't or won't for whatever reason. Help Keep America Beautiful.