Landing IT Work Overseas 194
snydeq writes "US IT workers could find considerable payoff and invaluable experience by taking their IT skills overseas, InfoWorld reports, as foreign, US, and global firms have increased the demand for a wide range of tech talent across the globe, offering positions that clearly move beyond the scut work of heads-down programming. Business fluency, industry-specific skills, and knowledge of American markets is fast becoming an invaluable asset foreign firms will pay a premium for, according to the report, which offers insights into finding IT work in a range of cities and regions abroad."
What about telecommuting? (Score:3, Interesting)
Right now, I'd love to start looking at working for a company in Europe, but I'm really not looking to move out of the U.S. I'm young, and single, and the idea of traveling frequently definitely appeals to me, but I really do love living in the U.S. And getting paid in UK Pounds or Euros wouldn't hurt too much. :)
Any tips for how to nail a telecommuting job overseas?
Not so fast, Kumar (Score:5, Interesting)
A few years ago Bob Cringely wondered the same thing, but found India won't take you.
"So I went on the web to see how easy it would be to emigrate to India. I found NOTHING. I called the Indian Embassy in Washington, DC and asked how I could emigrate to India. They didn't know what I was talking about... The idea that I'd just arrive at the Mumbai equivalent of Ellis Island looking for a job, well they found that rather amusing." http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2004/pulpit_20040226_000453.html [pbs.org]
Rest of the developed world is in an IT slump. Time for that Career B-Plan?
uhm wut? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm a .NET / MSSQL guy (yeah, I know, I know)
anyways, family situations have caused me to move around a lot in the last few months.
When I was in Portland OR, I landed a 6 figure job in 3 weeks. I declined it and instead moved to Manhattan and got a job in 2 weeks, also 6 figures. Contract to hire, and they said they'd hire me permanently, but now due to a death in the family I have to go to Minneapolis MN. I put my resume on Dice sunday night and have 2 promising leads for jobs in the twin cities, also at a comparable rate.
Don't know what IT slump you're talking about.
Definition plz (Score:2, Interesting)
"scut work of heads-down programming"
Uhhh wot? What does the above quote mean?
Re:We don't want you (maybe) (Score:4, Interesting)
You don't know of places that enforce the use of French in Canada? Is that a joke, or do you not consider Quebec to be part of Canada?
I have to say that it irritates me that people are unwilling to learn a new language, but it irritates me in both directions. I speak several languages, with varying degrees of skill, and I don't mind helping out someone who doesn't speak english.
If, however, I go to a country where I don't speak the language, I don't get offended that they expect me to make the effort to learn their language...It's a far far greater hassle for their whole country to pick up my language, than it is for me to pick up enough to get around.
So, while the, "Speak American" rednecks annoy the crap out of me, the idea that the vast english-speaking majority should have to learn a new language for the benefit of the minority is equally annoying.
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not so fast, Kumar (Score:4, Interesting)
In India, most jobs are filled by referral, not by posting a job listing and screening applicants. This is changing, as companies like Polaris have open houses where they screen and hire "freshers"... but in general, looking for a job without a personal recommendation letter from one of your contacts to one of their personal contacts in another company can be difficult.
In my experience, there are plenty of opportunities for American workers... as long as you want to be in management, or if you have specific business knowledge that's hard to find outside the US. The hard part is convincing the employer that you're worth the pay. Although it's important to note that $50,000 US in India can be enough to get you a decent home with a staff of servants... just make sure you have a driver.
The other possibility is to work in the US for a foreign company. I see a lot of this going on nowadays... global businesses who need to maintain a US presence (in particular, a NY-area presence) often have American employees working locally to manage workflow, processes, and teams in India, China, or elsewhere.
Re:We don't want you (maybe) (Score:2, Interesting)
Our foreign language skills (or lack of skills) are related to necessity. When the number of foreigners entering the US for business greatly exceeds the number of Americans going abroad for business, and when the single largest economy in the world is America, and when America's cultural exports greatly exceed those of any other nation, it's not surprising at all that Americans are less enthusiastic about foreign languages than anyone else in the world is.
For an anecdote, from age 13 to around age 21 I studied, to varying degrees of interest, three different languages. This is actually not that uncommon here - try one, don't like it, try another, not bad, try a third, pretty cool. But every time I met anyone who speaks any of those other languages natively - and I do mean literally every time - they speak vastly better English than I speak their language, and both parties know it. Let me tell you, that is actually a serious hindrance when you're trying to learn. In other words, it's not particularly a cultural deficiency - it's a pragmatic one.
But the groundwork for fluency in another language is there. We all study at least one language for a couple of years. The day it actually becomes more practical to speak a foreign language than to just use English, we'll be speaking foreign languages about as well as anyone else.
Re:We don't want you (maybe) (Score:3, Interesting)
You don't know of places that enforce the use of French in Canada? Is that a joke, or do you not consider Quebec to be part of Canada?
The parent said: but I am unaware of people who ... enforce the use of French in parts of Canada, being vilified like the people who push hard for English in America.
He knows they exist - but he's wondering why they're not "vilified" the same way Americans wanting people to speak English are.
A good question! And you two seem to agree - if Spaniards demand you learn Spanish in Spain, why do we also have to learn Spanish at home?
Re:We don't want you (maybe) (Score:3, Interesting)
do you not consider Quebec to be part of Canada?
Hell Quebec doesn't consider itself [nytimes.com] part of Canada so why should I?
Re:We don't want you (maybe) (Score:1, Interesting)
It is not Quebec that is part of Canada, it is Canada that is part of Quebec.
I have but one dream left in life: to see Canada separate from Quebec once and for all.
Canada is OK, eh? (Score:3, Interesting)
A couple of years ago I spent 6 rather pleasant months in Edmonton as an IT contractor for EPCOR -the local power company working on their main power consumption and billing system.
Great City, Great People -long commute (1200 miles one way every other week)
Between the smattering of French speakers and the large # of other European cultures it was almost like being in Europe without the language issues.
There are a lot of IT opportunities in Alberta now thanks to the Energy Boom, but you have to have a job there before they will give you a work permit and if you have priors they may refuse you entry
Re:uhm wut? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not me! (Score:1, Interesting)
Because it's not China or India.
Though, speaking as an American working in Japan, you'd have to get through all the Japanese idiosyncrasies of living here (key money be damned!) and the job market is not good now with Lehman going under, Morgan Stanley teetering, UBS, Merrill Lynch, City group, either scaling back operations in Japan, going under or shutting down. The market is not what it used to be as there are a lot of people looking.
There are jobs here, but not as plentiful as they were a few years back.
And you defintely don't want to work for a Japanese company. Though if you are a Chrysanthemum Club member, then you might be OK.
* Chrysanthemum Club = REALLY annoying foreigners in Japan (usually Americans, Canadians, Europeans, Australians or Kiwis) who blindly love Japan and anything and everything about it, they look down on other foreigners usually, think of themselves as being Japanese. brag about how they can play the shakuhachi flute(which by the way is also slang for blowjobs) and do martial arts.
I'd bet they would hop in the right-wing black vans, blaring right-wing garbage about bringing the emperor system back. Damn if I have to hear those idiots again on their way to the Russian emabassy!
Re:Not so fast, Kumar (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not me! (Score:3, Interesting)
Non-Japanese Asian working in Japan here. Au contraire! The women worship me, the workplace is gentle as a baby's kiss, and I work two hours less than the 26 hours you claim. So there!
On a more serious note, that stereotype about working in Japan has been around for quite a while. But when working abroad (in Japan or anywhere else in the world) there will always be different expectations based on things like race or whatever. The key to a successful experience abroad is not adopting a fatalistic attitude about things. There's almost always an upside, and in the end, your experience abroad is what you make of it anyway. For example, anywhere in the world, if you look the same as the local population, it gives you more opportunities to learn and use the language.
Anyway, back to TFA, Japan and Korea are not mentioned at all, but Japan is still a good place to consider if you are interested in some of the leading technologies here: mobile, robotics, manufacturing automation, and biotech, to name a few. The quality of the jobs available to fresh arrivals from abroad varies quite a bit, though, so some due diligence and networking is probably advisable...
Re:Not me! (Score:5, Interesting)
Now if you're Caucasian - you can get away with working less than your Japanese counterparts and getting paid more than double their salary. Plus the women there worship the average Slashdotter like a rockstar if they happen to be Caucasian.
The first part is probably true. The second part works both ways. When I was working in Kobe, I often went to a small local drinking bar and did experience Japanese women leaving the dates who brought them there to sit besides me. Sadly, it was not me they went home with.
The secret is to learn how to sing a few songs in Japanese. A pale face in a Japanese karaoke bar who sings songs in Japanese *does* get vast appreciation.
Re:Not me! (Score:3, Interesting)
Non-Japanese Asian working in Japan here.
May I ask from where?
The key to a successful experience abroad is not adopting a fatalistic attitude about things. There's almost always an upside, and in the end, your experience abroad is what you make of it anyway. For example, anywhere in the world, if you look the same as the local population, it gives you more opportunities to learn and use the language.
Yeah. I had many good experiences working in Japan, I had some bad ones. I still wouldn't trade it for anything.
The most memorable experience was when I worked for NEC in Kobe. As people entered the building the security guard would look at the badges and say "Ohayo gozaimasu", so it was Ohayo gozaimasu, ohayo gozaimasu, ohayo gozaimasu [see me] Good Morning sir!, ohayo gozaimasu. I always answered back in Japanese when they did that, but ...
Well-timed "gyoi kashikomarishita"s[1] were fun too.
[1] Now obsolete Japanese that means "Yes, sir!" in the context of a samurai to his feudal liege lord.
Re:We don't want you (maybe) (Score:3, Interesting)
[A]ny idiot who expects other people to speak their language is not going to be appreciated. If you are Spanish and use English to speak to Dutch guys in Amsterdam you are fine. But if you are American and expect them to speak in English, not so fine.
Another point is that people who are used to foreigners not knowing their language are extra-special-double-appreciative if you make any effort at all with the local language - say, enough to order another beer and say thank you.
This works in the office as well - even if all you can say in the local language at first is "good morning" and "lunch time", it shows that you are not an entirely worthless human being.
I lived in Germany for a year and a bit with bunch of English people. Our employer was paying for German lessons for us, during work hours no less, but still many of them learned no more than "das, bitte!" (that, please!), coordinate with a pointing finger. This did not go down well with our hosts, who simply ignored them and froze them out. Come to think of it, by the end the only people in the German lessons were a Turk, a Canadian, and me... All the Englanders were moaning about how nobody would talk to them!