4837199
story
Posted
by
Soulskill
on Friday June 12, @01:01PM
from the db-two-point-oh dept.
narramissic writes
"On Tuesday, the same day Google held a press event to launch its Google Apps Sync for Microsoft Outlook, the company quietly announced in its research team blog a new online database called Fusion Tables. Under the hood of Fusion Tables is data-spaces technology, which would 'allow Google to add to the conventional two-dimensional database tables a third coordinate with elements like product reviews, blog posts, Twitter messages and the like, as well as a fourth dimension of real-time updates,' according to Stephen E. Arnold, a technology and financial analyst. 'So now we have an n-cube, a four-dimensional space, and in that space we can now do new kinds of queries which create new kinds of products and new market opportunities,' said Arnold, whose research about this topic includes a study done for IDC last August. 'If you're IBM, Microsoft and Oracle, your worst nightmare is now visible.'"
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Um... what? (Score:5, Insightful)
How's this three dimensional stuff not just plain old OLAP [wikipedia.org]?
Re:Um... what? (Score:5, Funny)
Because it packs more hype into an n-cube, and fills a 4-dimensional space with marketing.
Come on, that's impressive guys, right?
Parent
To be fair (Score:5, Informative)
Looking over the actual Google blog announcement [blogspot.com], this looks more like a case of the F article [itworld.com] getting it all wrong. The "dimensionality" stuff is clearly not intended to be the innovation or selling point of Google's service; much less a differentiator relative to database vendors, who've had OLAP for ages.
The real selling points seem to be an easy UI, a lot of predefined public data sets available to combine and correlate with your own data, and the collaboration features.
Parent
Re:Um... what? (Score:5, Informative)
That's why it's called a hype[r]cube. They'd call it a tesseract, but the reviewers kept asking how it helped with eye problems. ;-)
Joking aside, a cube is a data-mining/reporting concept that pre-computes a number of reporting relationships between data elements. Adding a "fourth-dimension" is usually what's referred to as a "slowly changing dimension". It's usually handled by adding time stamps denoting an active period for a record, then computing based on a time range.
I don't know if Google means the same thing here (probably not), but it sounds like the real breakthrough is a large-scale data space. Having worked with a few data space DBs, the concept lends itself well to the more organic nature of the Web. IMHO, it has the potential to succeed and offer a strong competitive advantage over traditional RDBMSes.
Today's RDBMSes are great, but the cost of adding new features to the application is extremely high. Data spaces sidestep the issue by allowing you to add data in whatever format you need. There are some rather obvious pitfalls (I can hear the DBAs screaming about data integrity already), but it matches the web development environment well. :-)
Parent
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It has it's use like Access has it's use but this goes back to the same old argument of ORM not scaling as well as perhaps an SQL layer in your application. Some small scale websites might make use of this and find it useful but running anything medium to large would
Re:Um... what? (Score:4, Funny)
It's not just marketing. This will revolutionize how DB services are provided. For one thing, now all your data is belong to Google (but that's a small price to pay for free/low cost data hosting, right?). For another thing, this DB exists in four dimensions. Unfortunately, one of those dimensions is the home of Googol the Destroyer, who has been summoned to our dimension to wreak the End of Days via the Rite of a Thousand Targeted Ads. Development of this DB was actually how Googol the Destroyer was accidentally summoned to our dimension; following his summoning, he quickly turned all of Google to his cause.
When last we saw our heroes [slashdot.org], they were continuing work on their plan to convert all the world's sorcerors to their cause, building the One True OS with Built-in Global Web Search to stop Googol. We learned the source of Stallmanx's power were the beard gnomes that live in his Beard of Druidic Prowess when they helped him escape from Googol's clutches.
Meanwhile, Googol's crack team of evil underlords continue their preparation of preventative solutions to all the possible ways the world can be saved (probalby stored in this new 4-dimensional DB, by the way). Googol the Destroyer continues to devour data gathered by the Webcrawling Spiders of Doom with gobsmacking satisfaction.
So what are our heroes, Joba and Gatus, up to?
JOBA: Gatus, how are you fairing in your quest to buy out all the greedy sorcerors?
I did well for a while, and I've still got cash left thanks to issuing those bonds last month... but it seems that the remaining sorcerors are resisting the charms of my cold, hard cash. For some reason they are not responding to my efforts to Embrace and Extend them.
JOBA: Perhaps you should rethink your pitch. I'm good at marketing, let me help. For instance, maybe the "Extend" part of your methods should not involve use of the Rack. Maybe a new slogan, like "Embrace and Embrace". Then it's just hugs all around.
GATUS: Perhaps you have a point. But I think that's a little extreme. How about "Embrace and Exsanguinate"? I could use an Iron Maiden to drain their blood, surely that's not as bad as Extending them on the Rack?
JOBA: No, no, that doesn't work at all. Trust me... "Embrace and Embrace" is the best way for all the sorcerors to come to appreciate your strengths. And who knows, you might like it. [wink]
GATUS: Very well. But how goes your plans to subvert the Ministers of Fashion to get th low-self-esteem sorcerors to come to your side?
JOBA: Splendidly. Though there is some backlash from the sorcerors who want "open" hardware or somesuch. Apparently they are incapble of appreciating the "experience" I deliver. We'll have to work on them.
Meanwhile, Googol instructs his acolytes in the finer points of using his 4-dimensional database to represent n-dimensional space, where n equals the number of souls fed to the Targeted Advertising Machine of Futile Resistance. This information is to be used by them in a nefarious plot to neutralize the efforts of our heroes. Coinciding with this, Googol has instructed his crack team of evil underlords to collect the threads of the Ultimate Evil Woven Tapestry of Universe Description, known as "Dark Fibers", in one place.
What is Googol the Destroyer planning with the Dark Fibers? How will He utilize the Evil Woven Tapestry of Universe Description in his bid to wreak the End of Days?
Will Gatus and Joba be able to complete the One True OS with Built-in Global Web Search in time?
Tune in to next week's episode of Google the Destroyer to find out!
Parent
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The posts are too long, which hurts -- brevity is the soul of wit.
Also, the Apple fanboys don't like the satirization of Jobs AND they tend to have a lot of mod points, the Google fanboys don't like the anthropomorphic satirization of Google, and both the Microsoft fanboys have issues with the satirization of Gates.
It's like an exercise in how to piss off the most people and still end up with positive moderation.
I just ha
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Hey, they forgot the 5th Dimension. I heard that was an even better rock group than the 3rd Dimension.
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4th Dimension(al) [4d.com] Database has already been done. I used this back in 1993, 94 or so.
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Yeah, I call crapnanigans on this. Stephen E. Arnold, you're now on record as being a techno-imbecile.
(Please note, I obeyed the rule of using five made-up words or less in this novel of mine.)
It already said so in the summary. "technology and financial analyst"
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Seriously, just add one attribute to every table, and now you have a new "dimension." Big freaking woop.
Re:Um... what? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes and no.
What they're describing what I'd describe as an OLAP 2.0. They're taking similar capabilities (central data store, cubed data) and combining them with user generated content, sharing and the cloud.
The system looks extremely similar to an BI system.
I'd make an counter point to TFA: I actually think that this is probablly Business Objects / Microstrategy / Cognos's biggest dream: the system shows the power that effectively BI can provide an business with data which is effectively shared and public.
Google are making their business case: give vendor lots-of-money and they can gain the capability over your own data, but in an nicely managable manner (so your competitors won't be getting access to it).
Parent
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Gah, why doesn't Slashdot have an edit function? It's 2009 not 2001.
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Yeah, that's more or less what I figured after reading a bit more through stuff [slashdot.org]. The article Slashdot is sourcing this from is just clueless about what the real differentiating point is; it's not the fact that it's OLAP, it's the UI and integration with other Google or web data.
Merged? (Score:5, Funny)
'If you're IBM, Microsoft and Oracle, your worst nightmare is now visible.'
I didn't realize they had merged.
Re:Merged? (Score:5, Funny)
'If you're IBM, Microsoft and Oracle, your worst nightmare is now visible.'
I didn't realize they had merged.
You just described my worst nightmare!
Parent
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Have fun figuring out your licensing costs.
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That's just what the market calls it for short. The full name is MicrOracleBM Java System Z Office DB2i AS Windows Enterprise Edition.
Or as I like to call it, MOBMJSZODBASWEE. Rolls right off the tongue.
Google had better look out (Score:2, Funny)
I'm coming out with a five-dimensional database.
-Taylor
Dimensional nonsense? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't get it. Relational databases are deficient, because they need twitter posts and the FOURTH DIMENSION of being able to update and insert data?
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I'm right there with you. I don't get it either... The other google thing had a nifty video. I need to try and find one for this...
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Clearly someone has no clue of the word dimension and relational databases. Just because a table can be printed on paper doesn't make it two dimensional.
In relational databases a table is a set of tuples. A tuple is a finite sequence of elements. An n-tuple has n elements and is itsself an element in a n-dimensional space.
That fourth dimension nonsense is what you get if you don't have a basic education of relational databases and relational algebra. But thats just the old stuff of the '70s that is way outd
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Hype. (Score:2)
Really? It probably threatens slashdot's business model more than it does corporate IT vendors. Imagine a new mash up that delivers all the content of slashdot without any of the ads nor the frequent fiddling with message filter UIs.
Worst nightmare indeed (Score:5, Funny)
Twitter coordinates, n-Cubes, and four-dimensional spaces... in a cloud?
Gee... I'm glad it's not possible to die from a hype overdose.
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Damn you, n-Cubes!!
time-cube (Score:2)
I think they have just provided the final step for the time-cube solution to start the chain reaction that will end the earth. Ignore Cubic Math at your own peril, and of humanity. [timecube.com]
Proprietary data? (Score:5, Insightful)
What company in their right mind is going to upload the crown jewels into someone else's computer?
Re:Proprietary data? (Score:4, Informative)
Salesforce.com (crm), Taleo (hr), and various others like them are all successful. SAP is working on an online offering, I hear, and it may already be out there, I don't know. In short, lots and lots of companies offload various critical functions into the "cloud" (argh) if it makes sense to do so.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Google seems to be really great at taking a little tiny thing, doing it a couple billion times, and making a few cents off of every transaction.
My guess is that this is aimed more at individuals who are writing blogs and contact managers, not so much corporations with huge development teams and datacenters.
To answer your question: people that don't really think that their data is "top secret".
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My guess is that this is aimed more at individuals who are writing blogs and contact managers...
Not likely. The focus seems to be on sharing and analyzing data, not just storing for retrieval on a web page. This is more BI than read-mostly RDBMS.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If I'm reading the paper correctly, it would mean google could host data, and without having access to the data itself, could still permit user lookups and modifications. Of course that doesn't allay concerns of 3rd party reliability, the encryptio
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While the pre-alpha version of Fusion Tables does require uploading the data to it for it to use, the whole concept of Dataspaces is providing a unified interface to heterogenous collections of underlying datastores that aren't directly under the complete control of the Dataspace, so presumably, when the system is more developed, you won't need to trust anyone else's computer with control of your data to make u
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There are big differences between data and money.
For example, all money is fundamentally the same. All data is fundamentally different. You aren't going to get a competitive advantage from looking at the banknotes in my pocket; you might however benefit significantly from a glance at the contents of a USB stick.
Likewise, you can't look at my bank balance and say "hey, that's a great idea, I'll have a bank balance that size too!" But you could very easily look at my data and decide to copy that.
And banks
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I trust outsiders with my feces. I don't trust them with my data.
And I trust my electric company up to a point. I still have backup power systems.
Sorry Google (Score:2, Funny)
Somebody is a bit prone to hyperbole (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a funny feeling Oracle, DB2, and MS SQL executives aren't exactly quivering in abject terror at the idea of a database with "a third coordinate with elements like product reviews, blog posts, Twitter messages and the like."
"Real time updates" are a new feature (and a "fourth dimension")? That's news to me... I thought batch-only updates went out with punchcards.
I'm pretty sure this Google thing has some interesting features, but I am equally sure that it has nothing to do with the buzzword-stuff from that marketing drone/"IT Consultant."
SirWired
Security Issue (Score:5, Informative)
Less Marketing speak...what its about... (Score:2)
The marketing speak and abuse of the term "dimensions" in TFS is entirely unhelpful as to what "dataspaces" are about. The pre-alpha release of Fusion Tables now available has pretty limited (though interesting) functionality; a broader picture of what "dataspaces" are about is available in this paper [berkeley.edu], which is probably more useful to the technically- (rather than marketing-) oriented crowd on Slashdot.
Of particular note, a "DataSpace Support Platform" (DSSP) is not a replacement for RDBMSs, but instead som
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, to be honest.
I work at a bank. We use something called Fiserve which is a completely hosted Financial services software package.
We open accounts, manage accounts, do our teller stuff, all on software and in databases that we do not own in any way shape or form. It freaks the hell out of me, but it does happen.
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Maybe it's more of an alternative to stuff like Crystal Reports?
Dump data into google tables, let executives play with it, generate charts, trends, etc.
Or B2B customers could sift through their data which is updated by a core data system.
Data imports could be handled by dumping the data to a google table, then customers and account managers could hash out values/columns before involving a DBA.
"Dataspaces" and RDBMSs not opposed (Score:2)
Dataspaces (ignoring the hype explosion) has nothing to do with relational database or SQL bashing; it fills a different role than RDBMSs; a particular purposes of "Dataspaces" is to unify access to heterogenous collections of data, including the case where some of the underlying data is held in RD
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Red implifies that the google software is now on the verge of becoming self-aware and we should be getting very afraid.
Apparently this new database was the final drop. When it gets out of beta the world as we know it will seize to exist.
Have a nice day.
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What happens when your internet connection goes down?
Companies have dealt with this already -- for instance, often a central office will have the data, perhaps on an actual mainframe, but regardless -- branch offices connect in via VPN. No Internet, no VPN.
Better question: What happens when your power goes out? That seems to happen about as often as Internet being out -- more often, in fact, if you don't count the fact that Internet generally stops working when power does.
What happens when someone breaks in
And this is less likely in-house?
Quick question: Do you honestly believe you have a bett