When Developers Work Late, Should the Manager Stay? 426
jammag writes "A veteran developer looks back — in irritation — at those times he had to work late and his unskilled manager stayed too, just to look over his shoulder and add worry and fret to the process. Now, that same developer is a manager himself — and recently stayed late to ride herd over late-working developers. 'And guess what? Yep, I hadn't coded in years and never in the language he had to work with.' Yet now he understood: his own butt was on the line, so he was staying put. Still, does it really help developers to have management hovering on a late evening, even if the boss handles pizza delivery?"
Management pager, baby (Score:5, Interesting)
My boss has the perfect answer for this:
Get everyone set up with dinner/beverages. Then, go home, sign in from there, walk away from the computer and keep the pager close.
We page him if we need anything, or when we get finished.
Out of our hair, but still handy if needed. Perfect.
We had our director photocopying, getting pizza (Score:2, Interesting)
I do remember one time we had our three-levels-up director in on a Saturday when we had a rush project. It was an RFP, not a programming project, it was important to get done and had a short deadline to produce hundreds of pages of accurate interesting responses to inherently dull and boring material. We put him to work photocopying and fetching pizza, and he avoided micromanaging (something he didn't always avoid :-) He probably did add a bit of value to the executive summary part, but I wasn't working on that section. It was a couple of decades ago, and since I still remember it it was probably good for morale...
Re:It depends (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, and ideally the manager should have figured out how not to have it come down to late-night; but we don't live in an ideal world.
This is highly unlikely in typical development, the reason is that schedules are based on a web of falsehoods. Not lies, just things that everyone should know are false but pretend are true.
Project scope usually ends up being a falsehood, the scope changes and everyone pretends it has not and the schedule for the previous scope can still be hit. Which leads to late nights and these are typically not the fault of direct management but hte whole management structure.
Time to complete the project is usually a falsehood because estimates are made which by definition are wrong, and the schedule is set as if those estimates are fact. Is this the fault of the direct manager or the whole organization.
All of which lead to attempts to over-estimate which are bad because most of the time the project fills the time available, which means they cost more than they should.
I am sure a lot of us can think of many other things in project management that are treated as fact when in reality they are false.
Middle managers have little power over deadlines (Score:3, Interesting)
If it's the manager's fault, and it always is unless we're talking about developers who work night shifts
You can delude yourself into thinking a middle manager has the power to dictate deadlines if you like but in a lot of organisations that simply isn't true. The deadline is decided by those higher up based on external pressures and the desires and will of upper management. The middle manager has to try to make it work. Often it is expected by upper management that developers will stay back late to do it. The resulting timeline is a fiction and everyone's butt is on the line. If it doesn't work, there's always an outsourcing firm willing to lie about being able to deliver more quickly and efficiently (as if that were in their best interests).
Re:Real Time Coding (Score:5, Interesting)
"It's at 0% because it doesn't fucking work. It will remain at 0% until I work all the bugs out of it. When I get that last bug fixed, it'll magically jump to 100%. Let me be so I can finish it!"
Re:Yes. (Score:4, Interesting)
That's 4iedBandit's manager's job. It should go something like this:
4iedBandit's manager to both the developers' manager(s) & QA manager, CC the next person up the food chain: Because your people fell asleep at the switch, 4iedBandit & I had to stay after hours to install a crapload of servers to make up for your sloppy work just to get performance back to where it's supposed to be. The hardware & licensing costs for those servers, his OT pay and the food I bought him is coming out of your budgets.
Other managers to their people: WTF is wrong with you people?
Other managers to 4iedBandit & his manager: We apologize for what happened and we will be personally taking measures to ensure this doesn't happen again.
Re:As long as he knows how to ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Many years ago a colleague told me a tale (with misty eyes) of a former boss who'd done exactly that - when everyone had to work through a weekend he came in first, left last and appointed himself as chief coffee maker and senior takeout waiter.
That kind of stuff breeds loyalty in employees. You'd think more managers would realize this. Especially if the manager's attitude is a humble one about clearing away problems and taking responsibility for issues and decisions. If you put that together in a positive work environment I'll stick around. Heck, I stuck around far too many years at one job that was a clear dead-end for me because I loved working with the team and my boss was a real mensch. Hard to find nice environments like that.
Sadly, they took that boss out in a political coup. It seems he was too focused on doing a good job managing and building a great team to spend the necessary time on politics, back-stabbing, and subterfuge. The details involved having his IT department's budget gutted to buy a penthouse for the CFO.
Re:It's called a team (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:As long as he knows how to ... (Score:3, Interesting)
My last job, after I had been there less than a month, I was asked to work all weekend over Memorial Day weekend. He called me on Monday while he was at home barbecuing with his family to ask how all the work was going. I was in the office by myself, wishing I could strangle him through the phone. When he did come by late at night or a weekend, he wasn't supportive, but hovered and bickered over programming style and strategy. That job didn't last long...
Re:alternatively (Score:4, Interesting)
That is not going to work. Really, that is not going to work. I've got more than a decade of professional development experience, approx. half of that doing agile development. Developer, scrum master, project manager (PMP certified) - been there, done that, still doing it. Agile is not a magic wand which solves all problems.
Agile's forte is adjusting scope in a flexible way - to allow continuous input on priorities and features, to decrease cost of change, and to avoid schedule surprises by only scheduling well defined parts (if you don't know what you'll be doing, you schedule a timeboxed investigation instead). One good scenario is product development - you have a pile of potential features, and a rough release schedule. Another good fit is a scenario where the team is working directly with the customer, and the customer gets to select what gets done and changed (adjust scope) within the schedule.
In your scenario, scope and schedule are set. Several staples of agile methodologies may come in very useful, like quick daily status meetings, continuous integration etc... but you aren't doing agile development. You need to do the project the traditional way - break down the deliverables, estimate, schedule, do risk management and see if this is at all realistic. PERT [wikipedia.org] is probably a better fit for your situtation.
This thread is inspiration to me... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's called a team (Score:3, Interesting)
Support Networks (Score:4, Interesting)
I may as well of said nothing.
A couple months back a person resigned from another biz and she was talented but also an absolute stunner(drop dead gorgeous) and my manager wanted her in our organisation.
Her reply was a short but polite "No thanks, I really am looking for a place with strong support networks.". It was a real blow to him, and a wake up call. Now our managers "support", not "oversee". It has worked well, and we seldom pull late shifts now, as the jobs done.
Re:As long as he knows how to ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Indeed, that is the most important part of the job.
I've been a boss and found it wasn't worth the aggravation. The best boss I ever worked with (as opposed to for) had been in the business for 40yrs yet he could make you feel like you were telling him something new when you answered his "silly" questions. He was a cockney and tough as nails but only brought out that side when his considerable charm and patience didn't work. He's dead now and they just don't make gentlemen like that anymore.
Re:It's called a team (Score:3, Interesting)
So true. I had to defend a guy who worked for me some years ago on this type of shit. We had a first go round where this gal who was a contractor to us (friend of the VP of Marketing) filed a complaint because the guy had a lewd password. He did have a poor choice of passwords (EatMe69). The gal figured out what his password was by watching his fingers as he typed it . He was typing it on her machine beause he was trying to get her connected to our network on her machine, and was connecting to his account for a test. A bunch of asterisks on the screen were sufficient for her to feel harrassed. And our evil bitch HR VP bought into it. She wanted a Harrassment case to set an example, and my guy was a convenient target.
After I spent a week reviewing the facts with everyone up to and including the CEO, I got that complaint dismissed and gave him instructions that if he ever came into contact with her again, and anything went sideways, to come find me. So in a few days, he did just that, and she filed another complaint for him "making her feel uncomfortable for not talking to her" as she was ranting at him in front of witnesses.
Against the wishes of our HR department, I pulled her behind closed doors, and explained to her that she was dealing with a geek, for whom she was one intimidating bitch, and that I had told him that if he didn't feel emotionally equipped for the discussion to come find me. I pointed out that she was borderline on the edge of harrassing the handicapped, and asked if we couldn't just talk a bit. She actually broke down and started crying, indicating to me that there were exterior issues contributing to her mindset. After our conversation, she backed off, and my guy kept his job.
I got sacked for it (Score:2, Interesting)
I stayed back to support my crew and when _my_ boss found out, he chewed me out, then sacked me shortly after. I think it was because _his_ boss (CEO) came through the next day and wondered why he wasn't also working the midnight oil, therefore making me look a little _too_ good in the CEO's eyes (he made an example of me in front of the higher managers on how to properly perform as a team, wish he hadn't).
Worst company I've worked for.
Re:It's called a team (Score:3, Interesting)
When I got my current job, there were a series of questions like that.
Fortunately, I'd been clued in that all the questions required that I think in terms of using a team.
My years of EQ guild leadership helped a great deal then and later on the job in terms of delegation.
I'd learned you can't do it all, you have to trust people, and they prefer you set the goal and let them work out the details.
Stay Late, with a Qualification (Score:3, Interesting)
I manage developers and they can count on me to be here if they're here (and when they're not). But I'm also *not* a useless lackey. I'm a developer myself and I'm here because I add something to the process. In addition to going to get the food (which I always do), I can actually participate in the process of making decisions and solving problems.
In my opinion, if you can't do that, you shouldn't be in the position. And you certainly shouldn't be looking over anybody's shoulder if you're not needed. Give them the space. Surely you have some of your own work you can do while you wait.
But yes, be there -- unless you can't be there without getting in the way, in which case you should leave.
Re:Yes (Score:3, Interesting)
Boy, you haven’t eaten my salad yet. It’s got a huge steak, potatoes and stuff right next to it. :D
But I agree with you on the “no compromises” policy.
There is no reason, why pizza can’t be healthy without making compromises.
Take finely milled whole wheat flour (looks and tastes like normal flour, but is very healthy, because of the B-vitamins), add normal tomato sauce, (nothing wrong with that), some toppings and cheese. Then eat a small salad as appetizer to balance the cheese, and maybe some fresh fruit later. And you got yourself a healthy, and delicious meal.
Everything can be healthy and delicious. Just follow these rules: :)
Don’t make compromises in taste.
Everything should be as fresh as humanly possible (the secret of every great chef).
The carbohydrates should be as long as possible.
The proteins should not be destructed by e.g. heat.
The vitamins should not be destructed by e.g. heat.
The fats should be as liquid as possible. (= as unsaturated as possible)
The heat should generally be as low as possible (slow cooking, the other secret of modern great chefs).
Don’t make compromises in taste.
Variation, variation, variation.
Learn how to cook like a chef. (Or have a wife who can.
Oh, and fresh stuff is usually cheaper, because processing costs money. (You don’t have to buy that horribly expensive “organic” stuff. It’s often just as unhealty. ;)