Google Engineer Decries Complexity of Java, C++

snydeq writes "Google distinguished engineer Rob Pike ripped the use of Java and C++ during his keynote at OSCON, saying that these 'industrial programming languages' are way too complex and not adequately suited for today's computing environments. 'I think these languages are too hard to use, too subtle, too intricate. They're far too verbose and their subtlety, intricacy and verbosity seem to be increasing over time. They're oversold, and used far too broadly,' Pike said. 'How do we have stuff like this [get to be] the standard way of computing that is taught in schools and is used in industry? [This sort of programming] is very bureaucratic. Every step must be justified to the compiler.' Pike also spoke out against the performance of interpreted languages and dynamic typing."

We all know the ideal language has two functions

[spun]

doWhatIWant()
and
doItFaster(doWhatIWant)

Complex? Difficult? Since when?

[Anonymous Coward]

Segmentation Fault

If C++'s complexity has him vexed

[swanzilla]

I'd like to hear what he thinks about Perl.

A new phrase for "U.N. Barbie"

[Culture20]

English estas too malmola! Paroli en Esperanto!

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[somaTh]

See, I'm already thinking about extentions.

doWhatIWantEvenThoughImTellingYouToDoSomethingElse()

News Flash

[eclectro]

Rob Pike likes to program in Forth [wikipedia.org] in his spare time.

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[cgenman]

slowDownAndCrashSoICanSellAnUpgrade();

I LOVE perl!

[DG]

I actually think that perl is the best programming language every designed.

(Waits for storms of laughter to subside)

No, really, I'm completely serious. perl is the English of programming languages. It takes the most useful parts of everything and mixes them all together into a useful conglomerate.

Much the same way you can use English to write a scientific dissertation, a sonnet (in full Billy S mode), or O RLY? perl can be as descriptive and formal or as loose and unbounded as the programmer chooses and it all JUST WORKS!

I **lothe** "bondage and discipline" languages that force me to think and write a certain way just because some would-be language guru thinks HIS way is the One True Path to enlightenment. perl gives me an expressive, more-than-one-way-to-do-it language that lets me think and work the way that best fits the problem at hand.

I have written enterprise-level perl code optimised for long-term maintainability and reliability (an LDAP server replication program that did schema translation). And I have written 5-second hacks that solved an immediate problem quickly and efficiently. perl lets me do this. No other language I've used matches perl's sheer versitility.

I love perl!

And I'm not at all ashamed to admit it.

DG

Re:If C++'s complexity has him vexed

[mrogers]

I'd like to hear what he thinks about Perl.

Since his talk had no discernible structure, said the same thing in a dozen different ways and won't make any sense this time next year, I'd assume he's a fan.

Re:If C++'s complexity has him vexed

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatcha talking about, perl is easy! I just cat /dev/random > mycode.pl

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[MikeyO]

You obviously aren't paid by the hour to write java code, or else you'd have come up with something like:

ThreadFactory.getInstance().setExecutionTarget(new Runnable(){ public void run (doWhatIWant() }).addExecutionObserver(ExcecutionItemObserverFactory.getInstance()).start()

Which is much more "enterprise ready" than yours.

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[PixieDust]

I dunno, I kind of like these extensions:

workItHarder makeItBetter doItFaster makesUsStronger moreThanEverHourAfterHour workIsNeverOver

Re:He's just pimping Go

[Cro Magnon]

but TFA also points out that languages accumulate cruft over time, and Go is a baby

Yeah, in another 10-20 years, Go will be a clunky piece of cruft, and we'll need a new language, possibly named "Stop".

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[jsiren]

What we have here is feature creep.

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[danieltdp]

I just hope, for the sake of your project, that the factory don't create foobars, but something else that you removed from the original

Re:Not a good diplomatic move...

[arth1]

You should bash Java, and C++ devs will agree.

Bad advice!

% bash java /usr/bin/java: /usr/bin/java: cannot execute binary file

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[bennomatic]

My implementation of that is doTheRightThing().

Re:Maybe because programmers like to be clear

[bonch]

Yeah, it's not like Google is driving past your house to take pictures and index your WiFi network or anything. Sheesh!

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[ultranova]

My implementation of that is doTheRightThing().

Wouldn't that make it unfit for enterprise use?

Lisp

[tepples]

What about an environment where you can eathily hide complexity and meta-information? Or, possibly, add new literalth? Where the bathe of the language is shifted to the Abthtract Thyntax Tree, not tho much the thyntax.

Fixed that for you. Programming with abstract syntax trees has been possible since Common Lisp if not earlier.

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[Anonymous Coward]

But the argument list is horrendous

Re:Emperor is Naked

[MathiasRav]

We need a new OS too. There hasn't been a decent OS since CP/M.

There's Emacs.

Re:Maybe because programmers like to be clear

[lgw]

the ruthlessness of a COBOL compiler forces you to create readable, structured code

You should ALTER your views on this subject.

Re:I LOVE perl!

[martin-boundary]

And then there's the word police, which doesn't actually have a singular at all, and its plural doesn't end in an s anyway just to mess with criminals' minds.

"You're surrounded by the police. Come out with your hands up."

"Fuck, the police are here. We're toast."

"Don't be silly, they said THE POLICE. It's singular, there can't be more than one guy out there. When you see him, just shoot him."

???

"Damn you, English language!"

Re:C too complex? Hilarious.

[Foofoobar]

Also, if you used to do Perl, you might like Ruby...

Yes and if you like Jesus, you also might like Jim Jones or Charles Manson. Push your cult elesewhere!

Re:C too complex? Hilarious.

[ducomputergeek]

But you can do anything in perl. Problem is you can do anything in perl (doesn't mean you should.)

Re:He's just pimping Go

[shutdown -p now]

Yeah, in another 10-20 years, Go will be a clunky piece of cruft, and we'll need a new language, possibly named "Stop".

You forgot to mention that, before that happens, we'll get a bunch of derived languages, such as Objective-Go, Go++, Go--, Go#, GoScript and GoXML.

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[bigngamer92]

And I was thinking something a little more classy:
neverGiveThisUp(You);
neverLetThisDown(You);

Re:Programming is Hard

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to programming.

He's been programming since 1981, mostly doing OS and language development research for Bell Labs.

He apparently also trolls slashdot.

Re:We all know the ideal language has two function

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just daft, punk

Re:C too complex? Hilarious.

[freakhill]

THIS!