.Net On Android Is Safe, Says Microsoft

An anonymous reader writes "With Oracle suing Google over 'unofficial' support for Java in Android, Microsoft has come out and said it has no intention of taking action against the Mono implementation of C# on the Linux-based mobile OS. That's good news for Novell, which is in the final stages of preparing MonoDroid for release. Miguel de Icaza is not concerned about legal challenges by Microsoft over .Net implementations, and even recommends that Google switch from using Java. However, Microsoft's Community Promise has been criticized by the Free Software Foundation for not going far enough to protect open source implementations from patent litigation, which is at the heart of the Oracle-Google case."

Isn't Dalvik the base of that as well?

[khb]

If they are just "porting" then I'd have expected that .net would sit atop Dalvik ... which would make the entire project just as "tainted" under the Oracle theory.

Or is this going to be "raw" bypassing anything that Google neglected to ensure rights to use?

Re:Et tu brute?

[stikves]

(Going against my rule, and replying even though it will risk my karma a lot)...

Unfortunately what you said is only partially true.

For example:

OS/2: Originally Microsoft developed Windows NT as OS/2 - a microkernel which was OS/2 on the front backward compatible with DOS and Windows, and switched to Windows, only after IBM started to show less and less interest in coding, and more interest in their process.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT)

Mosaic: Mosaic was open source originated at NCSA labs, and IE was developed by original Mosaic staff.

Java: Microsoft did not develop .Net, until Sun sued them for license issues, effectively stopping them developing on Java. ... and others.

A story is rarely single sided, but it's very hip to hit on MS on Slashdot...

Re:"Safe"

[WankersRevenge]

We've been hearing that for years, and with Windows 7, it appears (from what I've read) if you want do any sort of work, you still need to use C++. Mind you, I don't program for Windows. Do they have any plans in building the next api in managed code for the next windows release, or is this a case of "do as I say, not as I do". Also, is there much of a performance hit using managed code in windows?

Assurances are meaningless

[pslam]

It doesn't matter how much they assure that they won't go after free implementations. Without it written in legalese, irrevocable, it's a worthless statement.

What happens in, say, 5 years if/when Microsoft is feeling the pressure of competition? Let's say they're going bankrupt. Sound unlikely? Well, replace 5 years with 20 years. They'll find they have this lovely patent pool full of wonderful words which are potentially worth billions of dollars. Like every single example I can think of in the history of computing since 1980, of course they'll sue using their patents to draw out their death.

The same applies to any of the big names: Google (you're next), Oracle (already doing it), IBM (somehow never died), Sun (via Oracle), for starters. The nuclear weapon analogy holds nicely here too. The software patent mess is Mutually Assured Destruction. But amassing them and then saying "We won't use them"... what happens when your state collapses? Where do they go?

Re:"Safe"

[FutureDomain]

The only contention I have with this argument would be that Microsoft might want to steer .NET programmers to Windows Mobile instead of Android. That said, Windows Mobile sucks really bad and Android is already one of the most popular phone operating systems, that Microsoft would either be glad for the added business (and Windows licenses that would be sold, since VS only runs on Windows) or they might consider dumping Windows Mobile altogether and push Android/.NET (a long shot, but quite possible).

Re:"Safe"

[spiffmastercow]

Not sure where you're getting the "don't know how to program" crap. Java is the one with training wheels. C# has operator overloading, pointers (if you want 'em), closures, anonymous methods, covariance, contravariance, and a slew of other advanced features that require skill to properly implement. Not to mention LINQ + expression trees, which in itself is a reason to switch twice over.

When it comes to strongly-typed JIT compiled languages, C# wins hands down. Java fans tend to look down on .NET, but that's mostly a defense mechanism. At some point someone probably told you you were 1337 for using Java. The truth is that Java was made for people who would like to use C++ but can't understand pointers. C# has its share of idiots too, but it's got features for those of us who know how to code as well.

Re:does not compute

[JImbob0i0]

I wouldn't exactly say it'll be that appealing a target given this:

We have not yet announced the pricing for MonoDroid, but you should anticipate that the price will be in the same range as MonoTouch ($400 USD for individual users, and $1,000 for enterprise users).

So not only are you targeting something that is likely to make your phone run slower you are also targeting an audience where someone has to pay as much as their phone outright (and they may have it free on contract...) again just to run a .Net App... based on that I put it to you that the pool will be minuscule - especially compared to using the proper SDK/NDK and distribution via the Market etc.

Re:Et tu brute?

[Locutus]

I met a guy who worked for Microsoft on Visual J++ when it was initially compatible and he said there was quite the buzz to be the best "Java" there was. He then told me that all the Java project managers, included the Visual J++ ones were called to a meeting with Bill Gates. After that meeting, all current progress was stopped and they turned direction to a version of MS Java( not real Sun Java ) which used proprietary Windows calls and Visual J++ was changed to default to using those Windows specific APIs.

I believe this meeting was mentioned in court documents where it was said the Bill Gates yelled out "does anyone remember Windows?". Court documents showed that Microsoft, as a company, did and was operate to protect their position in desktop operating systems. ie, screw developers, screw competition, they do what is best for profits and that means protecting Windows at all costs.

Java is still very much a threat to Microsoft and they are still trying to win developers over to their technology so they can be directed, legally, to technology which will only run on Windows. MS .NET on Android or anything is foolish and a sign of naivety to Microsoft's motives and what it means to product life cycles and TCO. IMO

LoB

Re:Free Software Foundation and patent promises

[guyminuslife]

Look, if Microsoft released its .NET implementation under the Apache license, the FSF would criticize them for not open-sourcing all of their software.

If Microsoft released all of its software under the Apache license, the FSF would criticize them for not using the GPL.

If Microsoft released all of its software under the GPL, the FSF would criticize them for not going far enough to ensure that third-party applications on the Windows platform were also released under the GPL, and that it would run drivers with binary blobs.

If Microsoft demanded that all software for Windows and all compatible drivers also be GPL'ed, the FSF would criticize them for not demanding that the hardware that Windows runs on also be open-source.

If Microsoft asked hardware manufacturers to also open-source their designs, then, as it faded into irrelevance and Apple/Google/Red Hat took over the PC market, the FSF would criticize them for not understanding how free software works.

Re:Ask the London Stock Exchange about how ...

[obijuanvaldez]

Isn't this article about .NET running on Android? Is there going to be a Java or even C/C++ based stock exchange running on people's phones soon? It seems fairly clear that the OP was suggesting quality software of any scale could not be written in .NET.

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