CS Profs Debate Role of Math In CS Education 583
theodp writes "Worried that his love-hate relationship with math might force him to give up the pursuit of computer science, CS student Dean Chen finds comfort from an unlikely source — the postings of CS professors on the SIGSE mailing list. 'I understand that discussing the role of math in CS is one of those religious war type issues,' writes Brad Vander Zanden. 'After 30 years in the field, I still fail to see how calculus and continuous math correlate with one's ability to succeed in many areas of computer science...I have seen many outstanding programmers who struggled with calculus and never really got it.' Dennis Frailey makes a distinction between CS research and applied CS: 'For too long, we have taught computer science as an academic discipline (as though all of our students will go on to get PhDs and then become CS faculty members) even though for most of us, our students are overwhelmingly seeking careers in which they apply computer science.' Frailey adds that part of the problem may be that some CS Profs — math gods that they may be — are ill-equipped to teach CS in a non-mathematical manner: 'Let's be honest about another aspect of the problem — what can the faculty teach? For a variety of reasons, a typical CS faculty consists mainly of individuals who specialize in CS as a discipline, often with strong mathematical backgrounds. How many of them could teach a good course in cloud computing or multi-core systems or software engineering or any of the many other topics that the graduates will find useful when they graduate? Are such courses always relegated to instructors or adjuncts or other non-tenure-track faculty?' So, how does this jibe with Slashdotters' experience?"
Re:Simple Solution (Score:4, Informative)
Um, the prof was saying calculus and continuous math have little to do with CS. Discrete math, etc, is always going to be a big part of CS/algorithms.
Re:Do you want a university or a trade school? (Score:5, Informative)
"It's like like suggesting that a mechanical engineering student should be taught how to fix the engine of a Ford Mustang or that an electrical engineering student should be taught how to install video cards into a PC."
No, it's not like that at all, because a mechanical engineer (or most of them anyway) are not going to be working on cars for a living, and electrical engineers are not going to be installing video cards for a living. But CS students are going to be doing mundane programming for a living.
The problem is that teaching practical, career programming is probably what a Software Engineering program should do. But that is a relatively new degree, and many colleges and universities still rely on Computer Science programs to (supposedly) teach those skills. But for the most part they do not.
It's all very well and good to say CS is one thing, engineering is another... but until academia fully catches up with that concept, many who intend to go into programming as a career are getting the short end of the stick.
And no, despite your derogatory comment, Software Engineering is not suitable material for a trade school, any more than Electrical Engineering is.
Re:Do you want a university or a trade school? (Score:3, Informative)
You're missing the point. All of the "Core CS Topics" you mentioned in your lists can be learned (deeply and completely) without having a graduate-level understanding of calculus. Basic algebra and boolean logic pretty much covers it, when combined with CS specifics like understanding algorithmic complexity, etc. The divide is between those that write new fundamental algorithms and need the heavy math to do the research, and those that merely engineer with, implement, and use the wide array of readily available algorithms in existing public papers...
Re:Do you want computer science, or engineering? (Score:4, Informative)
You should look at the current jobs market. All of the good paying jobs require solid mathematics knowledge, especially for anything simulation/visualization related - CFD, aerodynamics, combustion systems, design/simulation of industrial processing equipment (grinders, shredders, slicers), and require OpenGL, CUDA, MPI, OpenMP experience as well.
Those jobs that aren't mathematics related, seem to be more arts based (web design) requiring knowledge of Photoshop, 3Dmax. The remainder seems to be management or customer facing roles.