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Canonical To Remove Sun Java From Repositories, Users' Machines

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:35AM (#38416088)

    Canonical is the new Apple.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:41AM (#38416140)

    All the while OpenJDK still doesn't work with half of the stuff out there, for example Juniper's SSL VPN.
    Great! Java: Compile once, works nowhere.

  • by grumbel (592662) <grumbel@gmx.de> on Sunday December 18, 2011 @10:59AM (#38416286) Homepage

    This is what you get when you have infrastructure that is build around one centrally maintained dependency tree, you are slave to whatever decisions they make. It's not even a new problem, similar software removals against the users will have happened with Gnome2 vs Gnome3 and even back with Gnome1 vs Gnome2 and counterless times when a working version of Gimp was replaced with a broken one and only fixed month later. This one seems a bit more sinister as from the looks of it it seems they remove it in a regular software update, not a dist-upgrade, but it's essentially the same issue. And to all those "This isn't a problem"-sayers, the existence of complicated time consuming workarounds by manual compilation/installation, thus by-passing the binary package distribution, is part of the problem, not the solution.

    It should really be time for Debian to move to a more flexible, more free form of package distribution that doesn't depend on a single dependency tree and fixed locations in the file system.

  • by Cheerio Boy (82178) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:01AM (#38416296) Homepage Journal
    First - I want to see in the license where it requires them to pull it off systems.

    Second - What the hell are they going to replace it with? Are they saying you have to download and install Java manually? OpenJDK supposedly doesn't work with all things.

    Third - What does this mean for Ubuntu derivatives like Mint? Are they going to have to pull the jdk as well?

    Forth - Can we _please_ take up a collection to have the Oracle execs framed for terrorism and shipped off to Gitmo?

    Honestly this is just stupid.
  • by cpghost (719344) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:05AM (#38416324) Homepage
    That's oh so typical of Oracle, even before they swallowed up SUN. They don't want the unwashed masses to touch their products (Database, Solaris, SPARC, now Java?, ...). This elitist mentality was part of their DNA makeup from the very beginning.
  • by grumling (94709) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:06AM (#38416340) Homepage

    You could argue that by putting in your password when update manager asks for it, you are agreeing to let Canonical update your machine.

  • by decora (1710862) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:07AM (#38416350) Journal

    with a different water pump. problem solved!!!

    other than your car being out of commission for several days, and untold problems being encountered due to the incompatabilities between the old water pump and the new water pump. but whatever.

    in the fantasy land of free software, you can replace word with openoffice, exchange with ????, and it wont cost anyone anything!

  • Re:Not for long? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GordonBX (1059078) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:15AM (#38416404)

    Whoah. Tone down on the bitterness man. I wish I had some of your insight into the world - on second thoughts I'm glad I don't.

    They've targeted customers who are either spending somebody else's money (mainly the children of the wealthy living off of "daddy's money" or trust funds), those who are financially foolish (people who buy useless gadgets on credit), and those seeking a modern religion (the so-called Apple fanatics)

    Yeah - those are the *only* people who buy Apple gadgets. Those millions and millions of foolish people living off daddy's money. Damn them! Damn them to Hell!

    This has let them put out sub-par products with pretty horrible limitations,

    Yeah, those MacBook Airs are just *rubbish* man. I *totally* can't see why Intel is giving other notebook vendors $100m just to try and come up with a reasonable competitor

    but they can still sell them outrageous prices, and coupled with third-world manufacturing it allows them to make a very sizable profit.

    obviously Samsung (and by extension Google), Amazon, Motorola, HTC and the rest are *good* companies because the fact that they have to sell their stuff at half the price just to try and get people to buy one and therefore don't make a profit at all means that *their* exploration of third world labour is somehow alright?

    TL;DR version: OMFG get off your high horse mr AC anti-apple troll.

  • by tixxit (1107127) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:18AM (#38416424)
    Will it be removed from the user's machine, or just (I'm going to guess not-so-sliently) "upgraded" to OpenJDK? I'm suspecting the latter. I'll bet there is a big box that comes up, warns the user Oracle's Java is being replaced, and that if they choose not to upgrade, that no new security updates will be forthcoming. Frankly, the bad press from replacing Java is probably better than the bad press that would've come had they left an insecure, non-updateable version of the JVM on all their releases.
  • by rtfa-troll (1340807) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:21AM (#38416448)

    What "difference" are you talking about? There are *no* automatic updates on Apple stuff (OSX or iOS) - you have to agree to them each time. Please stop trolling about things you clearly don't know anything about.

    The OP is talking about Apple's ability to remote kill applications for security reasons (already demonstrated on iOS, presumably coming soon on OS/X). This comes from itunes, bypasses all need for acknowlegements and has nothing to do with software updates. I will leave you to stew in the irony of your last sentence.

  • by Waffle Iron (339739) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:23AM (#38416462)

    Continuing this stupid analogy: Your current water pump has security issues. Thieves can use it to steal your car! It has to be replaced, even if you're so incompetent that it takes you "several days" to get the job done.

    Ubuntu no longer has access to OEM pumps, due to decisions made by the manufacturer. If Ubuntu's 3rd-party pump won't work for you, you can still go directly to the OEM, download the exact replacement pump and install it, for free.

  • by xee (128376) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:23AM (#38416464) Journal

    Exactly! You already replaced your car's stock water pump with some aftermarket thing, now that's not working out so well for you. So do the right thing and replace that aftermarket water pump with an OEM part like the car came with.

  • Re:OpenJDK (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:24AM (#38416474)

    You meant
    "Ubuntu will still have the OpenJDK, which is not actually working for most stuff"
    And alternatively users can download the JRE 7 from Oracle, which also does not work for a lot of stuff.
    Great help that.
    Java: Fails everywhere.

  • by Thomas Charron (1485) <twaffle.gmail@com> on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:38AM (#38416600) Homepage

    Software which someones tested and released under a given JDK was generally using it for a reason. I can, for one, specifically say that a project I'm working on will specifically *not* run under the OpenJDK.

  • Re:This won't work (Score:5, Insightful)

    by David Gerard (12369) <slashdot@NOSpam.davidgerard.co.uk> on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:39AM (#38416604) Homepage

    It doesn't - bad summary conflates "no license to distribute" with "security hole" - the security hole is why Ubuntu needs to fix this, but the only fix they can apply is to remove the package since they can't distribute the fixed version any more.

  • by David Gerard (12369) <slashdot@NOSpam.davidgerard.co.uk> on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:48AM (#38416680) Homepage

    Yep. Been there, done that.

    The problem is that proprietary software is generally badly-written rubbish, well below the typical quality of open source (and many studies have shown this). However, many companies still run proprietary software, and being terrible rubbish with no peer-review it's often only certified against specific versions of Java and will actually break with any other version. Heck, one package we're stuck with was only certified against Sun Java 6 a few months ago, and Java 5 was EOLed end 2009!

    tl;dr proprietary software, being shit, can be very platform-specific.

  • Re:Not for long? (Score:0, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @11:54AM (#38416736)

    "Yeah, those MacBook Airs are just *rubbish* man. I *totally* can't see why Intel is giving other notebook vendors $100m just to try and come up with a reasonable competitor"

    Because all popular products are good?

  • Re:OpenJDK (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Svartalf (2997) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @12:04PM (#38416798) Homepage

    It's not about them no longer supplying it, but actually ripping it out of your box. They've already distributed it, and under an appropriate license- it wasn't leased out and the license doesn't require removal once the license is retired.

    It does not make any sense to do what Canonical's doing here. Not happy about that thinking.

  • Re:Not for long? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @12:10PM (#38416838)

    Just like unpopular products are good? The Air is an excellent machine with no comparable competitor.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2011 @12:27PM (#38416976)

    It should really be time for Debian to move to a more flexible, more free form of package distribution that doesn't depend on a single dependency tree and fixed locations in the file system.

    You're absolutely right! We should have packages which install their libraries wherever they feel like, leading to 20 different versions of the same library on the computer in different places, with no clear way of knowing which one is going to get loaded when you run your program.

    We could call it

    DLL HELL

  • Uncool (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @12:53PM (#38417196) Homepage Journal

    I can understand pulling it from the repositories for future installs, but from a user that installed it while the license was still in effect? Really uncool.

    Aside from pissing people off in general, just think of all the production servers they may kill by doing this. And the lost customers, time, money..

  • Re:Not for long? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 517714 (762276) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @03:08PM (#38418168)
    Zenbook, yes - on specs and price. Series 9 [pcmag.com] not even close, even though it lists for more. The Sony is a good match performance-wise that would have been great with the addition of a decent graphics processor, which it should have included given its premium price - it isn't that extreme except in price. Apple has a distinct edge because it is setting the price points and the competition is in the unenviable position of matching specs or bettering them - at this point only one competitor is seriously challenging Apple.
  • Re:Not for long? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by hairyfeet (841228) <bassbeast1968.gmail@com> on Sunday December 18, 2011 @03:37PM (#38418412) Journal

    I'll get hate for wading in with such obvious fanbois but WTF, truth is truth> You wanna know why Linux is dead last and going exactly nowhere? Its because you people really really REALLY suck at GUIs, you really do. While you may think some damned 70s terminal is the essence of nirvana the rest of the world has moved on dude, and nobody wants to play with your damned blinking cursor crap.

    I mean holy fuck you are missing features that Windows had a fricking decade ago and while I don't have an OSX machine to confirm I wouldn't be surprised if Apple had them even longer. Where the fuck is the roll back drivers button? How about the find drivers button? You expect the user to magically know the make/model/rev of any and all pieces of hardware and go do the "find a fix" forum dance which ALWAYS ends with "open up bash and type" aka "We suck balls at GUIs so please take our shitty terminal again" with NO thought of ease of use or intuitiveness.

    So you can make your little comments about how Windows and OSX is for "noobs" or how they "suck" but you know what? Apple and MSFT could raise their prices 300% and YOU WOULD NOT GAIN A SINGLE POINT because your designs are backwards, they are NOT intuitive, they are as unfriendly as can possibly be, and the GUIs frankly are extremely basic and often barely functional as I found out when network manager wouldn't take changes in the GUI, tossing them on each reboot. Guess what the solution was? We suck balls at GUIs so please take our terminal. Every. single. time you see "Open up bash and type" you have just written "We suck and are full of fail" because nobody else wants that lame shit but you.

    The sad part is you have most of the pieces, a kernel that does everything a modern kernel should, several (partially) functional DEs that with some polish could be damned nice, and drivers for most hardware, but frankly you couldn't put all these pieces together into a solid intuitive OS if someone put a gun to the head of RMS and told you "do it or the hippie gets it". You know what Linux at this stage reminds me of? Windows 98. What was Win98? It was a CLI OS with a GUI shell bolted on top that kinda sorta worked but for anything more than basic tasks failed, was buggy as fuck, and to get anything complicated done you had to go CLI which you could even bypass the GUI shell completely and just go CLI. What is Linux now? It is a CLI OS with a GUI shell bolted on top that kinda sorta works but for anything more than basic tasks fails, is buggy as fuck, and to get anything complicated done you need to go CLI which you can even bypass the GUI shell completely and just go CLI.

    Apple and MSFT are bringing their A games, which is why MSFT had one of its biggest quarters EVAR just recently and Apple is now one of the biggest corps ON THE PLANET and what do you bring? DE wars and CLI and Mickey Mouse amateur hour bugs. Sorry but there is a reason why you can't give your OS away, and it ain't no conspiracy, its the same reason every OEM from Asus who started Linux on netbooks to retailers like Walmart run away from your OS. Its not stable, its buggy, its too damned fiddly, it lacks polish, its too dependent on 70s terminals. In other words you are bringing your D game and everyone knows it. Now stick THAT in your terminal and compile it!

  • Re:Not for long? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by s4m7 (519684) on Sunday December 18, 2011 @05:17PM (#38419008) Homepage

    Before I start, let me clarify that I am not a *fanboi* but the primary maintainer of a least a dozen production machines each of Windows 7, OS X, and Ubuntu linux. Therefore I feel I'm qualified to shed some light on your misconceptions. Take this response not as *hate* but as an assumption that you are not willfully ignorant about what you're talking about, and you just need someone knowledgeable to clear up your obvious confusion. That said...

    truth is truth

    conceded

    You wanna know why Linux is dead last and going exactly nowhere?

    Dead last on desktops. Number one in the server space. Number one in handhelds. PC ownership has stagnated. The mobile space is where all the growth is happening, and linux-based OS's are eating everyone but Apple's lunch in this field. Even Apple is still relegated to playing a strong second fiddle.

    There are no anti-competitve bundling deals with PC distributors in the linux world. There's also little in the way of manufacturer and application support. Those are the real reasons. Less technical and more political than you seem to think.

    you people really really REALLY suck at GUIs

    This is a gross generalization. Gnome is really no more or less user friendly than any of the commercial alternatives. All of the several different viable options for linux destkop environments have their strengths and faults. It's not any different for Windows or OS X.

    While you may think some damned 70s terminal is the essence of nirvana

    For at least the last 5 years, use of the terminal on an Ubuntu desktop system is about as central as it is on Windows or OS X. Pros do it for convenience, but it isn't necessary unless you're trying to do something unorthodox. This is an old, dead, troll of an argument against Linux. Try a modern Linux desktop, it's really not as bad as you seem to think it is.

    you are missing features that Windows had a fricking decade ago

    By the same token, windows is still missing many features Linux had 20 years ago.

    Where the fuck is the roll back drivers button? How about the find drivers button? You expect the user to magically know the make/model/rev of any and all pieces of hardware

    Driver management in Linux is handled through the package manager, because drivers are software. I haven't needed to roll back a driver, ever. I did so exactly once to enable visual effects and it was complete cake. No CLIs were employed. The last time I needed to use lspci to determine the model of a piece of hardware because it wasn't autodetected was 2006. The last few releases of Ubuntu even notify me when there's a better proprietary (manufacturer) driver than the bundled open one, and automatically install THAT.

    you couldn't put all these pieces together into a solid intuitive OS if someone put a gun to the head of RMS

    so wait, *you're* the one worried about getting "hate" from "fanbois"? Ummm...

    What is Linux now? It is a CLI OS with a GUI shell bolted on top

    An OS is not "CLI or GUI". OS's work to abstract hardware from software. That is their purpose. OSX is a mach microkernel OS with a GUI on top. Windows 7 is a NT-family kernel with a GUI on top.

    You're obviously really upset about linux. I don't really understand why, it sounds like you're really happy with Win7 and that's fine. You can rage about terminals and drivers, and it's not going to change any Linux users' minds about their choice in OS. And since win7 can't run ZFS and won't take the GUI code out of protected kernel space, your angry rant isn't going to change my mind either.

    Point being that choice is good, each OS has its strengths and weaknesses. I salute your right to choose and even though windows is far and away the hardest of the three to administer, and you clearly have no need of the superior features Linux does offer, I'm glad you're happy with it.

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