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Python Education Programming The Internet

Parlez-vous Python? 164

Posted by Soulskill
from the expanding-required-language-courses dept.
Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that the market for night classes and online instruction in programming and Web construction is booming, as those jumping on board say they are preparing for a future in which the Internet is the foundation for entertainment, education and nearly everything else. Knowing how the digital pieces fit together will be crucial to ensuring that they are not left in the dark ages. 'Inasmuch as you need to know how to read English, you need to have some understanding of the code that builds the Web,' says Sarah Henry, 39, an investment manager who took several classes, including some in HTML, the basic language of the Web, and WordPress, a blogging service. 'I'm not going to sit here and say that I can crank out a site today, but I can look at basic code and understand it. I understand how these languages function within the Internet.' The blooming interest in programming is part of a national trend of more people moving toward technical fields. 'To be successful in the modern world, regardless of your occupation, requires a fluency in computers,' says Peter Harsha. 'It is more than knowing how to use Word or Excel but how to use a computer to solve problems.' However seasoned programmers say learning how to adjust the layout of a Web page is one thing, but picking up the skills required to develop a sophisticated online service or mobile application is an entirely different challenge that cannot be acquired by casual use for a few hours at night and on the weekends."
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Parlez-vous Python?

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  • Lies! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by girlintraining (1395911) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @02:52PM (#39499303)

    . 'To be successful in the modern world, regardless of your occupation, requires a fluency in computers,'

    I believe I speak for every computer geek on the planet when I say "Ah! He's full of sh*t!" We've all done tech support. We've all been asked to fix the computer of our friend or family member. And we are STILL endlessly mystified as to how people can be so damn clueless. No. Being successful in the modern world doesn't depend on fluency in computers... it still depends on the same things that humanity has also (perhaps erroneously) placed value on: Who you know, how attractive you are, your personality, and in semi-rare cases, how good you are at what you do.

    • Re:Lies! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:05PM (#39499451)

      yes but don't forget, she says she has taken a wordpress class and "can understand the basic code of the internet" or somesuch. problem really seems to be that the masses out there seem to truly believe that swiping colourful icons around on a touchscreen is the same as understanding how computers work. they are literally so dumb that they don't even know what smart looks like.

      • by jez9999 (618189)

        At least they know what a smartphone looks like.

      • Sounds like another instance of the Dunning-Kruger Effect [wikipedia.org].

      • Re:Lies! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by TapeCutter (624760) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @06:22PM (#39501993) Journal
        It's all relative. Go live in Mongolia for a while and watch the locals laugh their arse off at you trying to milk a Yak. Thing is, no matter what form of ignorance a person is trying to cure, experts are more than willing to help, provided the novice is willing to accept it.
        • Dude, I know enough not to milk a yak. The laughing would really pick up once your wrists got sore. Of course, if I was hungry I could probably become proficient at yak milking. Not really a skill you pick up out of curiosity.

          • Not really a skill you pick up out of curiosity.

            It is if you're a Mongolian child, which was sorta my whole point.

      • Re:Lies! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by nbauman (624611) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @10:51PM (#39504523) Homepage Journal

        I think there are a lot of people out there who want to know what's happening behind the screen when they swipe colorful icons around.

        There are a lot of people out there who want to get a better idea of how computers work.

        It can be done. Learning Python or Java is a reasonable place to start.

        I remember a special issue of Scientific American on computers, which had an article that walked you through how a simple, Turing-style computer worked on the logic circuit level -- reading from memory, adding binaries, storing the answer, etc. I spent an hour figuring out the illustration, and I had a pretty good conceptual understanding of how a computer worked. Any reasonably intelligent person who was willing to work at it could have read that article and understood it. A lot of people did. They understood the future a lot better.

        • Yes, a lot of people want to be good at computers, or be a master pianist. Without the work involved to get there of course. People say they want skills all the time. If they really wanted those skills they would work for it. Hell, with computers it's a Google and click away--barely work.

      • by tehcyder (746570)
        Mindless and ill-founded sense of superiority? You too can post to slashdot and get modded insightful!
    • by Anonymous Coward

      I believe I speak for every computer geek on the planet when I say

      You don't speak for me, because I think you are basically grandstanding and changing the subject. The assertion from the article that success requires computer skills doesn't rule out success also requiring other things. Get more training, especially in reading comprehension and rational analysis.

      • But it doesn't require computer skills.

      • I believe I speak for every computer geek on the planet when I say

        The assertion from the article that success requires computer skills doesn't rule out success also requiring other things.

        So you think Warren Buffet fixes his own computers?

        Does Mitt Romney code his own webpage?

        Methinks your interpretation of "success" differs from the social norm...

        • by expatriot (903070)

          Most people in advanced economies are massively affected by HTML and programming languages. They correctly know that they can acomplish almost all they want from within Facebook or Twitter, but they might want to understand more. It doesn't mean that they will, necessarily, become professional application programmers or web designers.

          There is alot space between knows nothing and full-time professional. There is also a range of incomes between the two. Actually some of the jobs that would benefit from some

          • Not that I disagree with you (quite the opposite actually), but I was merely pointing out that some of the most financially successful people in the world today possess little to no technical background.

            To address the content of your post, as a budding hobby-coder myself (always been more of a 'hardware guy' professionally), I too appreciate the increasing amount of quality, free training available online... but what any of that has to do with TFA & AC's assertion that success in life is dependent on
      • by ThorGod (456163)

        The assertion from the article that success requires computer skills doesn't rule out success also requiring other things.

        That's a very good point. Necessary conditions are different from sufficient conditions. It's necessary to be female to give birth to a live child, but being a female doesn't guarantee birth of a live child.

      • by Dhalka226 (559740)

        You are only correct if none of the computer-ignorant people the OP has come across were ever successful. If they were both ignorant about computers and successful, then success clearly does not require you not to be ignorant about computers.

        Quite frankly I think the lot of you should "get more training" in choosing the right words for the situation. We all know success is difficult to define much less factor, so why are we pretending that computer skills or gregariousness or connections or what-have-yo

    • "Ah! He's full of sh*t!"

      I'm hoping this was in the tone of George Carlin's stand up on this matter! I have to second this! Far too often when I "help" friends and family, it's because they can't follow the bloody prompts. Or be bothered to read the forms as they come across their screen. What's that you didn't want to install Fango Bango along with your "freeware"? Or heaven for bid they be sure that 1.) the machine is plugged in, or 2.) that the outlet it's in isn't also tied to a wall switch. Even at work it's very rare I

      • by Qzukk (229616)

        Far too often when I "help" friends and family, it's because they can't follow the bloody prompts. Or be bothered to read the forms as they come across their screen.

        Obligatory: http://xkcd.com/627/ [xkcd.com]

      • by dudpixel (1429789)

        I think all of this supports the idea that one can be successful without a knowledge of computers so long as you have someone to do the computer stuff for you.

        Ironically, the fact that these people need us in order to be successful, actually allows us to be successful too, so lets not criticize too heavily...

        • Re:Lies! (Score:4, Insightful)

          by xelah (176252) on Thursday March 29, 2012 @05:18AM (#39506595)

          One can be successful without a knowledge of many things. However, your opportunities for success (including more middle of the road success, not just top-of-your-profession success) may be narrower. A lawyer with a better understanding of computers than his peers may have more success when it comes to litigating some cases, for example. Or maybe he has an understanding of chemistry, or medicine, or engineering, or anything else that might mean he can read and digest related documents faster, follow arguments better, sift the important from the irrelevant and think of things others might not.

          This is not just about being able to 'do the computer stuff', it's also about people who may have commission software, make purchasing, investment or budgeting decisions, understand organizations which produce or heavily use software, write regulations, laws or standards, or do many other things in other specialisms that have some sort of connection with computers.

          Learning a few basic coding skills may only be a small part of what may be useful...but a better conceptual understanding and a better understanding of the nature of working with IT/software might not just help them make better decisions, but help them interact in a better and less frustrating way with the IT specialists they employ/work for/work with.

    • Re:Lies! (Score:4, Informative)

      by bemymonkey (1244086) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:38PM (#39499873)

      You seem to be forgetting that "fluency" on computers, in a modern work environment, pretty much means being able to remember your work PC's password and use a browser and MS Office.

    • by iamwahoo2 (594922)

      he is exaggerating to emphasize the point. Don't read to much into it. I am sure that he did not mean that there are literally zero people in the world who will be successful without being "fluent" in computers.

    • Re:Lies! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nbauman (624611) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @10:33PM (#39504403) Homepage Journal

      I'm a non-computer geek but in the 1990s I learned HTML well enough to put up a quick web site, because it was fun and it was useful. I also learned how to put together a few databases and spreadsheets, and automated my word processing programs. I know about as much FORTRAN and BASIC as you would get in an introductory 101 course. I used to read Forrest Mims' notebooks and build digital circuits. I like it. I like flashing lights. I like programming f=1/r^2 fields. I like to open up the case and figure out what the parts do. It helps me understand what's going on in the world around me. So sue me.

      I think any intellectually curious person wants to learn a lot of things, just because they're fun. I took my car apart and put it together. I learned the basics of a few foreign languages, a lot of math, chemistry, history, art, filmmaking, poetry, and other things I'll never use professionally. I could place respectably in a contest for the world's worst piano player.

      I realize how offended people get when a novice, an amateur, presumes to learn something that they are an expert in. How could they affront your wisdom by suggesting that they are basking in the same sun? However, their target is different. As somebody in TFA mentioned, he learned enough to appreciate what real programmers are doing, so maybe you will get the respect you deserve.

  • Python? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @02:53PM (#39499315)

    I love Python as much as the next programmer, but how does this story relate?

    • by Hentes (2461350)

      Like this I guess [djangoproject.com].

  • by dontPanik (1296779) <ndeselms@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @02:55PM (#39499339)
    I don't think it's super important to know the lines of code, it's more important to know the structure of how content is distributed on the internet. If people want to expand their information age knowledge, they should look to understand the structure of the internet, protocols and server architecture and such. That's what laymen need in order to keep up.
    • by chrismcb (983081)

      , they should look to understand the structure of the internet, protocols and server architecture and such. That's what laymen need in order to keep up.

      Uhhh??? Why?
      Car analogy: It is super important to know the structure of the car (how many wheels it has, etc) in order to drive it. NO. You need to know that when you press that pedal the car goes faster. When you press that one it goes slower. When you turn this big round thing the car turns.
      Does it mean you can make better content if you know the protocols and server architecture? Not really. The person implementing the design might be able to do a better job if he understands clients and servers and

      • by Anonymus (2267354)

        Yeah, but the problem is, most people don't even know (metaphorically) which pedal to push to make the car go faster, or if they do, they have no idea how fast the car is capable of going, how to refill the gas, change a flat tire, or how much any of the above or the car itself should even cost.

        Anyone who is serious about advancing in their field should try to learn the basics of modern technology. They don't need to learn protocols or server architecture, but they should learn a bit ABOUT them.

  • by crazyjj (2598719) * on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @02:58PM (#39499369)

    You can indeed learn to design mobile apps in just a few hours a night. It will just take a lot of nights. I imagine even a greenhorn could be designing decent apps within a year, just teaching themselves at night. It's really all about self-discipline and motivation there.

    • by c_jonescc (528041)
      I agree. I can't tell who's commenting there in TFS, but I'd say that the claim that one can't self teach development in their spare time is a needlessly snooty and intentionally disenfranchising attitude.

      Hobbyist in all sorts of fields develop expert ability. I'd make the argument that computer culture, especially in the case of web dev is one place where this is outstandingly obvious.
  • were the replies underneath. the holier-than-thou pronouncements of arrogant assholes decrying the proliferation of code monkeys

    hey, assholes: when someone tries to better themselves, and takes an interest in what you do, smile, and encourage them, or shut up. your ego needs a serious deflation when you adapt such an ivory tower attitude to people just earnestly interested in what you do. don't mock their enthusiasm, most of them might not amount to much real skill growth, but some will

    i think more coders is a GOOD thing. a planet of coders: what we could do!

    • by dkleinsc (563838) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:03PM (#39499431) Homepage

      i think more coders is a GOOD thing. a planet of coders: what we could do!

      If I were acting as a rational self-interested economic actor, though, the last thing I'd want is more competition, because that reduces the value of my skillset.

      • by vlm (69642) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:16PM (#39499581)

        i think more coders is a GOOD thing. a planet of coders: what we could do!

        If I were acting as a rational self-interested economic actor, though, the last thing I'd want is more competition, because that reduces the value of my skillset.

        Yet another example of confusing training and education. I took a civil war history class at college (mumble) decades ago and it was an education because it gave me a lot to think about, practice at thinking, practice at reasoning... No-one, not myself or anyone else, is under the illusion that it gave me the training necessary to be a trained history professor, or that I'm impacting the technical achievement levels of the history prof job market.

        As training, a middle aged investment manager taking intro web classes is probably completely useless. As education, its priceless.

        Often training and education seem overlapping, but the older I get, the further apart I see them. I'm not entirely certain we even have a "education" system, it just seems to accidentally happen sometimes, to some people.

        • by dkleinsc (563838) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:38PM (#39499875) Homepage

          Somebody with an educational understanding of my field can masquerade as somebody with the training and experience to do the job. Ergo, he appears to be a competitor to the manager who wants to keep his labor costs down, regardless of what that does to quality. For the obligatory car analogy, a Yugo can kinda sorta do the same job as a Toyota, so somebody who doesn't understand cars could easily confuse the two and thus set their price expectations for the Toyota based on the price of the Yugo.

          • by vlm (69642)

            Yeah but all managers know, or know of, another manager who got in big trouble for bringing in a con artist, so its a heck of a lot safer to hire someone who's done the work before. Hence the intense fixation some places have in hiring people with previous experience in the exact skillset.

      • by PCM2 (4486)

        If I were acting as a rational self-interested economic actor, though, the last thing I'd want is more competition, because that reduces the value of my skillset.

        But in practice, competition is generally good for markets, because it encourages the competitors to strive for excellence/innovation, and the best performers can charge more money for their goods/services.

        Whenever someone says they'd like to do what I do, I always encourage them. If there's actually so little work out there that I can handle it all by myself, I worry that I'm in an unhealthy/moribund market.

        The only catch being, if they honestly want to compete with me, they have to either be at least as g

    • i think more coders is a GOOD thing. a planet of coders: what we could do!

      I think most people would prefer more good coders. A lot of people who program suck at it, or just don't understand it at the level they need to because they've gone to school and had their head filled with computer science classes and not much real world. To be a good coder you need to be good at things besides programming.

      It has nothing to do with ego, and a lot to do with the fact that the best programmers are often busy fixing the mistakes of other, less-capable programmers. Believe me, when you wait 6

      • by crazyjj (2598719) *

        A lot of people who program suck at it

        Yep. And every one of them ends up on my team at some point.

    • by mikael_j (106439) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:08PM (#39499491)

      I haven't read the comments but in my experience random folks learning just enough HTML and PHP to be dangerous is not a good thing.

      It's a great example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, they know a little and are ignorant of what they don't know. Then real developers have to come in and clean up their mess (which is often more work than just building it from scratch).

      • they know a little and are ignorant of what they don't know.

        While not a coder (I know I can't code), I recently said the opposite of what you said in an interview. I told them I know what I know but I also know what I don't know.

        I wasn't trying to be snarky. I was being honest about the limits of what I know. That said, since I know what I don't know, I make sure to learn or at least understand what I don't know so my knowledge continues to increase and (hopefully) help me become more desirable.
      • by foobsr (693224)

        learning just enough HTML and PHP to be dangerous is not a good thing

        "Smattering", at least to my non-natively listening ears, somehow indicates the danger (think along the pictures of 'maluma' and 'takete').

        CC.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by fahrbot-bot (874524)

      i think more coders is a GOOD thing. a planet of coders: what we could do!

      Over my 25+ years as a system programmer/admin on just about every Unix (and, sigh, Windows) platform known, I've seen, and fixed, a LOT of code of questionable quality and shudder at your thought. I'm sure a "planet of coders" would bring forth some sort of Apocalypse. Hopefully, I'll be dead by then.

      • by mvdwege (243851)

        That's exactly what the Unix greybeards said when Linux just got started: "Hundreds of amateur coders can never lead to a good thing".

        And yet here we are, in 2012, and proprietary Unix is for all practical purposes dead.

        Mart

        • Hundreds - sure; Millions/Billions - not so sure. Also remember that us "greybeards" have contributed (and continue to contribute) a LOT over the years, even to Linux - which owes much to what came before it, like BSD, GNU, MINIX, etc... Anyway, in the case of programmers, more is not often better :-)
    • So long as they're learning to write code properly and we don't get a flood of even more PHP developers.
    • by boristdog (133725) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @04:58PM (#39500985)

      True, but my RWOME (real-world old man experience) tells me that only about 10 to 15% of the populace has the ability to really understand basic logic, troubleshooting and decision structures. To us, coding and debugging is easy and natural, to most people it is a bunch of weird magic.

      I have many intelligent friends who have taken classes on programming, classes on various aspects of computers, classes on networks, databases, etc. and they just don't "get it." They don't think like we do. Conversely, we don't think like they do. But then a world full of nothing but people like us would drive us all mad. That's the beauty of how we all get along.

      And of course, the reason why we can make some good scratch doing easy crap like this.

    • by chrismcb (983081)

      when someone tries to better themselves, and takes an interest in what you do, smile, and encourage them,

      If someone wants to try to learn how to learn programming, and html and other stuff. Then great, more power to them.
      But when someone says you need to do that in order to become a better blogger? Well then we as programmers have failed to do our job. If you want to do cutting edge stuff you need to understand the underlying technology (sort of the definition of cutting edge) But In order to create great content, you should use great tools. And know how to use those tools. You don't need to understand how t

  • I know plenty of successful professionals who have trouble figuring out their Blackberry. Computer technical proficiency may be helpful in a number of fields, but "web construction" is hardly the economic cure-all.
  • by MetalliQaZ (539913) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:01PM (#39499405)

    Is there a boom? I've never met these people. The Internet doesn't seem to me to be any different from any other technology. When it is all the rage people are interested, but it then becomes commonplace and is taken for granted. The vast majority of people are content to know precisely zilch about how it works or what's going on inside.

    How does an automatic transmission work? How does a television work? Hell, how does lever work? Hardly anybody out there walking around gives a flying fart about understanding those things.

    I find it funny that this article is running now, when the "social network" is taking over how we use the Internet. Why would you create your own homepage or blog? You can just sign up for a Facebook or Linked-In, etc. Why would anybody other than professional devs look at code?

    • by vlm (69642) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:28PM (#39499733)

      I've never met these people.

      Try night classes at your local uni or college. Stuffed full of people learning Japanese for the F of it, learning civil war history for the F of it, and according to this article, at least some are learning basic html (and python?) for the F of it. This works for Vo Tech too, I am very handy with the lathe and mill, but I'm the worlds shittiest welder and I'd love to take some vo tech welding classes, not because I wanna get a new job at about 1/3 my current pay spending 40 hrs/wk welding, but because I like playing with fire and melting metal together and generally Fing around with stuff like that.

      Hardly anybody out there walking around

      Walk around somewhere else. You're not going to find interesting people at the local sports bar, or at the water cooler talking about the latest survivor episode, or walking around the mall. Sry about that. I once had a kind-of relationship with a chick who's idea of a hobby or interest was sun tanning, drinking, and watching tv, glad I ran like hell from that.

      • You're not going to find interesting people at the local sports bar, or at the water cooler talking about the latest survivor episode, or walking around the mall.

        Those are the places where you find the vast majority of people. I'm glad you agree with me.

    • by foobsr (693224)

      Why would anybody other than professional devs look at code?

      Maybe after having been caught in a marketing trap?

      CC.

  • Waste of time (Score:5, Insightful)

    by marcovje (205102) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:03PM (#39499437)

    The real waste of time is having to hear sales pitches from people like this that don't realize that the problem isn't in the tooling, but in the problem to solve

  • Milking the gullible (Score:3, Interesting)

    by GreatBunzinni (642500) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:08PM (#39499489)

    From the article:

    [an investment manager] took several classes, including some in HTML, the basic language of the Web, and WordPress. (...) She paid around $200 and saw it as an investment in her future.

    This sort of courses are a form of scam that preys on gullible people, who have heard some news how some guy put up a website that he later sold for millions and now they want a piece of that pie. Yet, the hard truth is that those courses are in themselves useless and a waste of money. Sure, learning something is way better than not learning anything at all. Yet, who exactly believes that those gullible clients, like an investment banker with a course in HTML and WordPress, have all the technical know-how needed to put together a new facebook or twitter? They don't. They can't even put up a hello world app together, because they aren't even taught any programming language. These courses are good enough to put up a site on geocities, complete with an animated GIF informing that the site is "under construction", and to register a blog in WordPress.org. Yet, you think you are learning to program? Sorry to dissapoint you, but you aren't.

    • by vlm (69642)

      a waste of money

      There's really no such thing as a waste, there's just good prices and bad prices.

      At around a tenth the price, she would be getting a fair deal for what she got. The adjunct prof probably only got $500 or so for teaching the whole semester... Somebody in the educational-industrial complex is skimming a lot of money off in these situations.

      I'd trade her an hour of personal hands on computational tutoring for an hour of personal hands on investment and accounting tutoring, but I'm thinking $200 might be a bi

    • by c_jonescc (528041)
      More importantly, why aren't they taking advantage of the free offerings out there, that actual help one learn to code? Codecademy's Year of Code is an excellent resource, and I believe far more valuable a learning tool for someone looking to develop a skill or a hobby, or just learn for learning's sake, than an expensive class in how to use a WYSIWYG blog editor.

      Maybe I'm missing something?
  • From the article:

    Seasoned programmers say learning how to adjust the layout of a Web page is one thing, but picking up the skills required to develop a sophisticated online service or mobile application is an entirely different challenge. That is the kind of technical education that cannot be acquired by casual use for a few hours at night and on the weekends, they say.

    I have to agree. I've been making web apps full-time for seven years, and I'm still learning. HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP, SQL, Apache, Linu

  • by Anonymous Coward

    While I commend many of these folks for tackling coding, I doubt many will stick with it. Chances are they like the many people I know who simply follow the latest "in" thing. Those books on coding will soon end up in the garage next to:
    The golf clubs (everyone wanted to be the next Tiger Woods)
    The homebrew kit (Fight the tasteless "macrobrews" sold by big breweries)
    The boxes of trading statements (why work when you can sit at home and daytrade?)
    X-sports gear (Xtreme s8ing, Xtreme sking, Xtreme chess....)

  • by peter303 (12292) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @03:13PM (#39499537)
    When "English majors" were turning into web-designers. I wonder how many survived into the 2000s?
    • by iceaxe (18903) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @04:20PM (#39500383) Journal

      When "English majors" were turning into web-designers. I wonder how many survived into the 2000s?

      At least one.

      I spent a lot of nights and weekends learning over the last 19 years. Currently employed as a senior software developer, back on web apps the last couple of years, after a few years doing other sorts of programming. And I don't suck. (If I do say so myself.)

      But then, I treated my college education as an education, not as job training. I learned how to think, and I learned how to learn. I received my degree in English the same year NCSA Mosaic was released, and spent the next 5 years learning (on my own) before I turned pro in the web development field.

      It's really a matter of being smart and working hard. I can learn anything I want to learn, so long as the information is available.

  • says Sarah Henry, 39, an investment manager who took several classes, including some in HTML, the basic language of the Web,

    I'm a professional software engineer, and I don't know a 401k from a bond, but I just have to say that is so damn cute. She's learning HTML. ooooOOOOOoooo HyperText Markup Language! It's the BASIC LANGUAGE OF THE INTERNET you know. She can't make a site, but she can understand how the language functions in the Internet.
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
    Oh. Man. I'm sorry. I know I'm being an ass here. But that's just SO ADORABLE! For some inexplicable reason I feel the need to haze some pre-froshes.
    Sigh, oh, I know I kn

  • Smells like the height of the dot-com bubble when everybody and their brother read an HTML book and called themselves a programmer.

  • I keep reading that the IT field is going to face a shorting of ressources soon, because enlisting rates and numbers keep dwindling in the universities and colleges.
    • by vlm (69642)

      I keep reading that the IT field is going to face a shorting of ressources soon, because enlisting rates and numbers keep dwindling in the universities and colleges.

      You only hear that garbage from managers trying to outsource or lower salaries, never from un/under/employed IT workers.

      I'm sure my boss would agree there is a staggering shortage of veteran IT personnel with 31 years of general experience in computing, LAN/WAN telecom background, 19 years of linux experience since the SLS days, senior level routing and switching skills, electrical engineering microwave RF skills and experience, BS in CS in the hardcore curriculum track (compilers and shit track, not the "w

  • Reminds me of a fresh out of college student I interviewed recently.
    Me, what do you like to do?
    I like web programming in dreamweaver.
    Me, like java script, php etc?
    I like making web pages with dreamweaver.
    Me, do you program?
    Sure html and that kind of thing.
    Me, what is usually the first tag in a basic html document?
    Blank Stare

  • by leftie (667677) on Wednesday March 28, 2012 @05:40PM (#39501481)

    I think it was Zed Shaw I saw somewhere pointing out it was all the career paths other than programming that could really benefit from a little scripting knowledge. Many small often repeated tasks in every profession that can be automated. Information that is checked regularly that can be put on the desktop with widget.

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