University of Florida Eliminates Computer Science Department 628
DustyShadow writes "The University of Florida announced this past week that it was dropping its computer science department, which will allow it to save about $1.7 million. The school is eliminating all funding for teaching assistants in computer science, cutting the graduate and research programs entirely, and moving the tattered remnants into other departments. Students at UF have already organized protests, and have created a website dedicated to saving the CS department. Several distinguished computer scientists have written to the president of UF to express their concerns, in very blunt terms. Prof. Zvi Galil, Dean of Computing at Georgia Tech, is 'amazed, shocked, and angered.' Prof. S.N. Maheshwari, former Dean of Engineering at IIT Delhi, calls this move 'outrageously wrong.' Computer scientist Carl de Boor, a member of the National Academy of Sciences and winner of the 2003 National Medal of Science, asked the UF president 'What were you thinking?'"
Computers are a fad. (Score:5, Funny)
n/m
Re:Computers are a fad. (Score:5, Funny)
640K comp sci grads should be enough for any country.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As a pirate who has probably downloaded your closed-source, for-profit software with the DRM already stripped out, I am amused that you think DRM actually protects your IP.
The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Can we study the same things in other departments without having a dedicated Computer Science niche to go with Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, etc.?
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Computer science is a programme of study not an entire department.
Only if you're at a bad school.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Funny)
Like this one? They're cutting CS to save $2m. Meanwhile, their $99m/yr athletics program is getting a modest boost... roughly $2m.
I think even their underwater basket weaving majors can do the math on that one.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Informative)
They don't make money from ticket sales... they make money from ticket sales?
Someone skipped logic 101...
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:4, Funny)
He probably went to UF...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
They don't make money from ticket sales... they make money from ticket sales?
Someone skipped logic 101...
The GP's post made sense to me.
Their athletics program makes money, not from {ticket sales} but from {donations, ticket sales}.
Unequal sets. :)
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Informative)
They do not make money. The median net loss of each of the Division 1A schools' athletic programs is in the vicinity of $7 million annually.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
"Make money" is relative [statesman.com]. All universities, including the ones like UF that claim to make money, certify that their big-time sports programs are "substantially related" to their educational mission, and the IRS and state tax boards choose to believe it. As a result, the university's revenue from tickets, TV broadcast rights, advertising, and merchandise are tax-exempt. Donations from boosters are tax exempt (and a tax writeoff for the donor). Construction of stadiums and other sports facilities is funded w
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:4, Informative)
They do not make money. The median net loss of each of the Division 1A schools' athletic programs is in the vicinity of $7 million annually.
Florida, in the football loving South Eastern Conference, is not one of them. They make a lot of money from football. Second, no tax funds go to the athletic program. All SEC schools fund their athletic programs separately from the main budget, and all of the athletic money comes from ticket sales, TV revenue, bowl payouts, merchandise, etc. Athletics takes not one single dollar from state appropriations in the SEC.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe. But as an activity that can build excitement for the school among potential schools, you can see a loss as an advertising cost to bring in new students and other interest.
An example most folks aren't aware of:
Kansas State University (I'm an alumnus) up until 1987 was the worst Division 1A football school as far as historical record, and it wasn't even close. We had a 0-26-1 record in 27 consecutive games. Sports Illustrated did a cover story on how bad we were. Enrollment was trending down, with projections having us losing our football program and other significant loss of status.
Around that time, we hired an assistant coach from the University of Iowa, Bill Snyder. In 1993, we began a 10 year run where we won at least 9 games every year, and finished ranked in the top 25 every year. The decline in enrollment reversed. The school has had many successes academically as well as athletically (one of the top schools for Rhodes, Truman, Goldwater and other graduate scholarship contests, we were awarded the BioDefense facility, although funding may get cut due to politics), much of it due to the enthusiasm generated by having a winning program, and the perception that the people in charge know how to build success.
If that is the outcome that can come from a winning athletic department, I'm sure many universities consider that an investment in the overall success of the school. Now, our particular athletic department just became profitable enough that it is going to be run without state assistance. All money spent must be generated from sales, media contracts, conference profits, and donations. This year's $20 million profit is funding facility enhancements to keep us competitive with other schools which will probably outspend us in this area long term.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
My freshman year at USF was also the inaugural year of our football team. I remember the commentary going around the campus newspaper about the money we were being offered by UF and FSU to play their football teams (not a prayer of winning). The whole thing would have been an embarrassment to our sc
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
You may be right, but this is a desperately sad state of affairs. Tuition of the students attending should be sufficient to pay for the CS department. If it's not, they shouldn't have a CS department. I know many are desperate for uniformity, but it's really OK if not every single institution offers exactly the same programs of study. Schools also do a ridiculous bunch of things that I, as a former tuition paying student, don't want them spending my money on. Stop that.
Re: (Score:3)
Well, I actually agree that it should be possible for one school to offer astronomy (if they have a telescope), and for another to offer archaeology.
The thing that I think got people going about this is: When you say "Florida", the first thing people think is "spring break, year round". So UF eliminating compsci leads them to think "they're playing into the stereotype". That's why I think people are reacting to this like they are (including alumni who want the school to known for academics and not just for
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
You've just justified tearing the entire university system asunder.
If student tuition could keep academic departments afloat, we would never hear about budget cuts. But it's fantasy. The University of Florida, for example, after budget cuts, will be getting over $800 million dollars in the next academic year. Divide that by roughly 50,000 undergrad + grad, and that's about $18K/student. Tuition is $4K in-state, $24K out-of-state, and the student body definitely skews more toward in-state students. So money
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
College football does not make money for education. There's a lot of money flowing, but almost none really ever goes to education.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
What money is UF Athletics getting from the State? Please tell... What money is it even getting from the Academic side of the University??
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
What money is UF Athletics getting from the State? Please tell... What money is it even getting from the Academic side of the University??
This is a BS argument. The athletic dept ultimately gets their cash from the basis of their fan base, and where exactly do you think they get their fans from? By and large it is their university affiliation. To think that the athletic dept gets nothing from the university besides cash is a completely myopic viewpoint. If the UF football team was instead the "Gainesville football team", how many fans would they have?
Athletic depts in general should be kicking back a lot more than they do to their university hosts, because frankly without them nobody would care who they were.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:4, Informative)
Computer science is a programme of study not an entire department.
Only if you're at a bad school.
For example, the University of California at Berkeley with its combined EECS dept? They're only ranked #1 in the 2010 US News ratings...
Re: (Score:3)
Or MIT with its combined EECS department. Or Maybe Caltech where it is combined with the Math department. Man all these schools suck. Maybe he was thinking of UT where it is part of the Engineering school. Oh wait.
Re: (Score:3)
Computer science is a programme of study not an entire department.
Only if you're at a bad school.
This is absolutely silly. Why does UF have to do it the way others do it? Further, why does every single state university have to have a CS department? They don't all have law schools or medical schools. At a lot of schools, several fields are folded into larger departments, without any real loss of quality.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:4, Informative)
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you? Find one significant program where CS is a separate department.
Sure. From the 2010 US News rankings of Computer Science [rankingsandreviews.com]:
1. Carnegie Mellon. Separate CS and ECE.
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Combined EECS. Separate CSAIL.
1. Stanford. Separate CS and EE.
1. UC Berkely. Combined EECS. Administratively split into separate EE and CS divisions.
5. Cornell. Separate CS and ECE.
5. UIUC. Separate CS and ECE.
7. Washington. Separate CSE and EE.
8. Princeton. Separate CS and EE.
8. UT Austin. Separate CS and ECE.
10. Georgia Tech. Separate CS and ECE.
Need I continue, or is this enough evidence that maybe I do know what I'm talking about and that you should be quiet for a while?
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
At the school I went to, computer science degrees were part of the school of liberal arts and sciences (in the same building as astronomy, physics and math) and IT degrees were part of the school of business. It worked fairly well as there wasn't much overlap between the two and the CS students (a very small program compared to IT) benefited from being close to the math and physics departments.
Re: (Score:3)
If there was not much overlap then it sounds like those were some worthless IT degrees. I guess this is where we get interview candidates for IT jobs that can't even script perl or python much less write actual code.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So if someone wants to go down the path towards a CCIE and work on internet backbones, in your mind CS would cover that? Because to my mind that falls under IT, and most CS majors arent going to know how to work on a real internet router.
Or lets say we want to implement WPA2-enterprise with RADIUS, is that something you suppose your typical CS major is going to have expertise in?
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
I find both of your examples to fall into the realm of technical certificates, not University level study.
I've always thought of CS vs IT as Engineer vs Technician. One designs the other implements and operates.
For example a CS student should understand compiler theory including things like language tokenization, code generation, parse trees and the like.
An IT student needs to know "./config && make && make install" and have a working knowledge of an IDE like Visual Studio or Eclipse along with be fairly proficient in a language or two.
Re: (Score:3)
I agree it sounds like he is looking for ITT Tech
Re: (Score:3)
Or lets say we want to implement WPA2-enterprise with RADIUS, is that something you suppose your typical CS major is going to have expertise in?
Neither is your typical "IT" grad. IT tends to be pretty high-level on the technical details; it's more a resource-allocation/business/management major.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
most CS majors arent going to know how to work on a real internet router.
University education isn't supposed to be vocational training. In academia you learn academic concepts, not on the job skills.
Re:CS is redundant (Score:5, Interesting)
What kind of a shitty university do you get these from? In my country (not the US), I'm not even halfway and already I had to learn:
1. Operating System design;
2. industrial processor assembly languages;
3. UML;
4. java;
5. C;
6. C++;
7. Processor designs;
8. Math;
9. Logic;
10. MySQL;
11. Unix and Windows networking;
12. Internet protocols (TCP/IP, UDP, etc);
13. Networking architecture (internet tiers, wireless networking, industrial ethernet, etc.)
14. Logic boards (breadboards, soldering, reading ARM specs and erreta's etc.)
15. Writing a Bluetooth device driver;
16. Game design (3D modeling, OpenGL, storyboarding, etc)
17. Professional skills (project management, documentation, etc.)
18. Optimizing algorythms;
19. Learning industrial processes;
20. What did I miss?
Sound like the level of eduation in your area sucks balls...
Re: (Score:3)
Our countries have trade schools as well. We are discussing university education. It is possible we define this distinction differently.
Re: (Score:3)
No.
Re: (Score:3)
You really don't need to know the physics behind how a processor works in order to administer servers. You don't need to know how Python directly affects bits to write a script. Do you think every mechanic has a deep understanding of thermodynamics before they begin working on cars? Or carpenters understand the molecular biology of different wood species? It helps to understand the basics, but you don't need the same in depth knowledge it takes to design things from scratch.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh, no... Physics is to Mechanical Engineering as Chemistry is to Chemical Engineering as Computer Science is to Computer Engineering.
Science is very, very different from engineering. Science is focused on the theoretical, while engineering is focused on applying that theory to the real world, subject to various resource constraints.
Given that they are so different, it makes absolutely no sense to try to group them together, especially in some attempt to "save money".
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. Then in five years someone will notice there's a possibility to reduce overlap & duplication by centralizing it into a kind of internal service bureau that delivers modules on a subcontracting basis.
Five years after that, some bright spark will have the idea that if they stuck several of the courses together and added a few new ones they could offer a CS degree.
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Can we study the same things in other departments without having a dedicated Computer Science niche to go with Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, etc.?
Not in sufficient depth, at least in my opinion. Complexity theory? Database theory (yes, theory, not just "here's how to write a simple SQL statement)? Compilers? These could all be in other departments, but an undergrad pursuing a degree in another field will not have enough time to study computer science in any respectable depth. Double major is not the answer if CS is spread over more than two other departments. Spreading CS across math and engineering departments deprives students of the chance to become computer scientists.
As a computer science graduate (Score:4, Interesting)
As a computer science graduate I often ask why I did not have the choice to get a degree in systems administration.
Re:As a computer science graduate (Score:4, Insightful)
That isn't a degree, it's a certificate.
Re: (Score:3)
You can get a degree in Business Administration; right?
Re:The Department of Redundancy Department (Score:5, Insightful)
Computer Engineering/Software Engineering isn't the same as Computer Science.
In Computer Science we usually take a course in Computer Engineering and a course in Software Engineering, to get some concepts from those other areas of study into the students. However Computer Science, real Computer Science, is less about the technology, and more about the Mathematics of performing optimal computations.
Software Engineering isn't as much about optimal computations, it is more of a way of getting the software to work, and building larger complicated systems, which need to be maintained over time.
Computer Engineering is more of a hardware level approach, where the goal is is optimize basic elements but not complex systems.
Computer Science is in the middle. We use the optimized basic elements that the Computer Engineers make, and we create more complicated computations using them. Then Software Engineers take what the computer scientists have made and implement them into a practical design.
When it gets to real life jobs, all three areas of studies often give us a similar career path. However depending on your study you have different approaches to the problems we face.
So lets say a for a Job of a Software Developer (with 5 years experience)
When there is a problem to be solved.
A computer Engineer focused person, would use the features in the hardware to leverage more Optimized Lower level commands to their beck and call to help them solve issues, now this will create a fast solution, but may not run on other platforms.
A Computer Science focused person, would try to separate themselves from the hardware a bit more, and go into creating logic and routines, these routines will tend to be rather optimal, however they will probably miss something the hardware gives us for free, but will run on other platforms.
A Computer Engineer, will create code in a clean well documented manner, it will often be the less optimal, and slowest solution. However it will tend to run well on other platforms, easy to maintain, and usually more stable.
They all approach problems differently and when you get them together to work on a problem, you can get some heated discussions, but if they actually work well together they come up with some very good solutions.
Dropping Computer Science is a bad idea, because then you will loose the middle of the road approach in computing.
"What were you thinking?" (Score:5, Insightful)
"What were you thinking?"
Well, probably something along the lines of "That department did not publish well enough and the students did not bring in enough money".
Re:"What were you thinking?" (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking as a refugee from academia after spending most of my adult life attending or working at colleges, I would say this is exactly right.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Then get some decent staff and raise the prices if necessary (or raise the number of students, which would probably be easier).
If a WHOLE DEPARTMENT wasn't publishing good stuff, you need to start again from scratch. To my mind, that's no different to a WHOLE COMPANY having people who just sit on their bums all day.
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe they teach well?
You know, the other thing that colleges are meant to do?
Re: (Score:3)
Only teaching faculty/staff are expected to teach only. At a research University, you are expected to publish.
There's plenty of that (Score:5, Insightful)
I work for an engineering college at a big university and we have some departments that really need cutting. I'm talking departments that, literally, have less than 10 students. Well when you have low enrollment numbers like that you don't really bring in the money to support a department head, a few professors, support staff, and so on. They are a drain on resources and need to be cut.
One way or another, a department needs to bring in enough money to support itself. Now that could be directly bringing in money through research grants, but can also be through tuition. Departments that do a lot of teaching but little to no research can be plenty valuable because if students are coming for those classes, they are bringing in tuition dollars.
If they can't bring in money to support themselves, meaning pay the salaries, capital and operations costs, all that kind of thing, then they need to be cut in size or eliminated entirely. It is neither fair nor smart to say "Let's grab money from a successful department and use it to prop up an unsuccessful one."
Re:There's plenty of that (Score:5, Interesting)
It is neither fair nor smart to say "Let's grab money from a successful department and use it to prop up an unsuccessful one."
It would not be smart if your only goal is to run the University as a business, where you cut unsuccessful revenue centers and fund/build/grow the more successful ones to focus on profitability of the corporation. From that respect, economy of scale works the same way as it does at Coca-cola or Wal-Mart. Cut the under-performers. It is cheaper, easier and more profitable to pump out 10 million of the same widgets than it is to pump out very small batches of all-different widgets.
HOWEVER
If you are a believer in the concept of academic freedom and in the power of diversity of knowledge and thought (idealistic, I know) then it is vital that more successful departments fund less successful ones. I, for one, want there to exist people who study Latin, despite there being a limited usefulness for it as a career. I want people who study ancient Macedonian philosophy, basket weaving, Sanskrit and all the other fields that most people might deride as training for a career at McDonalds. I want there to be someone who knows everything there is to know about the inner politics of ancient Sumeria. The sum-total of human knowledge is vast and it is important that it be preserved but also expanded with the rigor of academic scrutiny.
I want this done, because the concept of Academia demands it. If we churn out millions of kids at a time all with the same thoughts and ideas gleaned from mass-market jobs training programs, we will lose the intellectual diversity that is needed to preserve academic and scientific expansion. There may be nothing that someone studying ancient Indian tapestries can ever tell a nuclear engineer that will advance his work, but both types of people are necessary to increase the useful progress of art and science.
I understand that the bills need to be paid in order to keep the lights on, and also that there are fields that have much more use in the real world as careers. There are certain fields that have more utility in advancing cutting-edge science and, rightly, should receive more attention for their greater potential to advance the human race. However, we shouldn't neglect more arcane knowledge entirely because of this. The more popular fields need to subsidize the less popular ones, less we risk whole branches of study dying off. This is not the most efficient method of creating profit for the university, but that shouldn't be what universities are all about. They should be about increasing the sum-total of human knowledge in all branches.
I'm fine with that (Score:3)
So long as you are fine with footing the bill via taxes. If you aren't, then you need to deal with cuts. It isn't fair to ask undergrads to have their tuitions balloon even more just to support shit that they have no use or interest for. Nor it is fair, and not really ethical or legal, to take research money from a grant for a specific purpose and redirect it to other uses. So you need to foot the bill for that shit with your tax dollars. You do that, I'm pleased to have whatever you want. You don't then I'
Re: (Score:3)
Part of what you're describing is what libraries are for. That's where we should be simply curating collections of human knowledge. Advancing them? Ok, I'll put that in universities. Yes, those libraries could also be...university libraries!
I do agree with you about the value of having a set of people who know everything about narrow and arguably useless disciplines simply to preserve the knowledge. The thing is how many you choose to have around, and whether that number should grow or shrink. It alwa
Re:"What were you thinking?" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"Steven Salzberg, your blog sucks?" (Score:4, Informative)
I don't get the outrage here. The article might just as well have positioned this as moving the education to the new Polytechnic. But that's not good for page views. So we get this opinion piece instead.
Based on tuition and costs, there could be anywhere between 85-200 students covered by this department to get the $1.7M savings. And there is a Polytechnic being created in Tampa specifically for this kind of thing. Why invest in something that is going to be poached by your new University anyway?
Official Response from UF: (Score:5, Funny)
NERDS!!!!!
Official protest from the students: (Score:3, Funny)
Hey! We're not nerds. We're geeks!
not eliminated? (Score:5, Informative)
FTFA:
The majority of students would be transferred to the hardware-oriented ECE department
The CISE department would be converted to a teaching-only department
50% of faculty would be transferred to other engineering departments (ECE, ISE, and BME)
so, if it will be a teaching only department, that doesn't seem the same as eliminated. They'll move the engineering in with the Electrical and Computer Engineering department, and it seems leave CISE to teach programming.
Re:not eliminated? (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed. TFA is very misleading and inaccurate opinion piece written by a contributor who usually focuses on healthcare issues. If you read the items he references in his hack job, you'll see that CISE program is not eliminated at all. The computer engineering programs are being moved from CISE to the Electrical and Computer Engineering department. Graduate programs and research work will continue in computer engineering there. Most graduate programs and research work in CISE will be eliminated, but the computer science BS and MS programs will remain. The projected savings are $1.36 million out of a $4 million in cuts across the university.
For what it's worth, this article is one of several opinion pieces carried by Forbes attacking this decision and all are full of inaccuracies and outright lies. Computer science research is being cut. The computer science programs remain. Computer engineering research remains but is moved into Engineering instead of CISE.
Re:not eliminated? (Score:4, Insightful)
Just to clarify: The other 50% of faculty will move to better Universities. All of the good ones anyway.
My University is already treating this as a huge hiring opportunity.
No problem! (Score:2, Troll)
They'll still have football, right? Good to see they've got their priorities straight.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:No problem! (Score:5, Informative)
Not at all. The sports program is independent and actually feeds millions of dollars into the school.
Bringing sports into it may lead to discussion on cultural values - but the money spent by the school on academics and sports are not related.
Re: (Score:3)
How many people around the country would know about UF if it didn't have an athletics program? It is proven that a good athletics program increase applications to a school. It is a marketing tool for the academic side of the school. So yes, a self sufficient athletic program, like at UF, is a HUGE benefit to the academic side of the school. By huge, I mean 10's of millions a year they otherwise would not have had.
Re: (Score:3)
That businessofsports.com site is pretty cool. It looks like I'm going to lose several hours of my life browsing there today, thanks!
hmm (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:hmm (Score:5, Interesting)
They're saying it was inefficient to have it as its own department separate from computer engineering and software engineering disciplines.
But I wonder where one would study advanced topics in computing now. Maybe the answer is "not at the University of Florida."
Re: (Score:3)
Dysfunctional department is the best explanation I've read.
Texas Tech has had similar difficulties with its CS department. In the 80s, when they elevated CS from being a part of EE to an independent department in the College of Engineering, they needed more professors in a hurry. They raided related departments. These departments (EE, MIS, and Math) used this as an opportunity to dump their worst professors. Consequently, CS didn't have the usual 1 or 2 rotten apples, the whole department was rotten.
They can save much more (Score:5, Insightful)
by dropping all the departments!
It's all about saving money (Score:5, Interesting)
Florida has to cut the budget somwhere, and universities are hotbeds of radical socialist indoctrination. Especially computer science. Now, if the CS department could pay its own way like football does that might be different.
Fortunately, Florida State has found a solution to the problem: their economics department has found a sponsor who will provide lots of funding in return for veto power over new faculty hires. UF is no doubt looking for to improve on the method.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Too bad their sponsor is one of the worst things that has ever happened to this country. The family involved is worse than the KKK in it's anti american John Birch attitudes. They don't believe in global warming and the environment. FS should tell them to take their money and stuff it where the sun don't shine.
Re: (Score:3)
FS should tell them to take their money and stuff it where the sun don't shine.
From a source literally next door to FSU Economics, the decision to accept the funding was very controversial -- but it was also made at a level way above the departmental level.
I don't recall whether the faculty senate took up the issue or not -- I can certainly see why they might.
Don't be trolled! (Score:3)
The author of the TFA implies that the University cut the CS program to bank roll athletics. In fact, the athletic department receives NO funding at all from the school! Not only that, the athletic department gifts the school $6-$8MM annually, and has previously upped the contribution to help the university not have to make cuts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida_Athletic_Association [wikipedia.org]
So it's OK to decry the dropping of a major department, but don't let the story get spun by the ignorant or those with an agenda.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Please, read your sources carefully before misleading people with specific numbers.
Going backwards? (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking as a Gator who went to school back when if you wanted to study computers you had to go into the Engineering School it sounds like they are moving backwards. As in like when I went to UF if you wanted to study CIS you had to take Calc 1-3 (ok...most of us were fine with that), Chem 1-2 (hum...), and Physics 1-2 (gahhh?), along with some other very non-CIS related but much more related Engineering classes. In effect if you wanted to learn to be a programmer, network engineer, or even a web designer you had to have the background of a EE.
It was total overkill and drove a lot of students away from the department. But at the time, late 80's-early 90's, the whole PC thing was still relatively brand new so that a large institution like UF had not adapted its curriculum was no huge shock. Disappointing yes but not all that shocking.
Now TFA is very light on details on how what the new curriculum for students would be. If they are indeed going back to asking CIS students to have EE level requirements. So this might just be a bit of good ol' yellow journalism. But it is indeed worth of some attention such that we can full details on how and why this is happening.
Where is the problem here . . . ? (Score:3, Interesting)
You want to study Computer Science? Enroll somewhere else. You live in Florida, and want to study Computer Science cheaply at a state subsidized school? Move.
If folks in Florida sees no point in educating Computer Science students, let 'em. The loss will be theirs. Say "Hello" to your new neighbors from India.
Here's why they cut Computer Science (Score:5, Interesting)
My basis for this is OP's linked article in Forbes, which quite transparently links the elimination of the department with state budget cuts. Could you imagine how that would read if UF threatened closure of a Literature department and elimination of courses in postmodernism and semiotics? Most sane people would yawn at that.
Computation (Score:3)
Aside: ever since I was in my CS program, I've always disliked the name "Computer Science", largely because I spend two full years of college never using a computer for any of my classes. Calling it Computer Science puts the machine at the center of the endeavor, whereas really it is an abstract conceptual field, like all liberal studies.
I think the field should be called "Computation".
New T-Shits: "U of FL: Does not compute" (Score:4, Insightful)
What you expected a message body?
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Drop football, save $100 million (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Drop football, save $100 million (Score:5, Insightful)
and this is where i have to ask what is the core competency of a university? to make money? to entertain fans? to educate students?
Just be cause you can make money at something doesn't mean you should focus resources on it, unless it's one of your core competency.
If it really is a "profit center" and something they can make money from, great but they need to contract control of it out on set terms and use the money generated by it to increase the educational offerings and make it easier for them to achieve in their reason for being, educating students.
Re: (Score:3)
and this is where i have to ask what is the core competency of a university?
Gets 18-year-olds out of their parents' houses.
Also beer pong.
You're trolling, but ... (Score:4)
Very few sysadmins that I know have degrees in computer science.
They have degrees in science, engineering, or for some, no degree at all. All focused on problem solving skills, but no so much on the heavy math that comes from CompSci degrees. We need to worry about getting things built and keeping them working -- the most efficient way to sort something doesn't really come up too much.
And as someone who has worked for a university ... I was surprised how none of the IT staff taught classes. Some of the CompSci faculty hadn't been in the industry for 10+ years, and would show slides w/ 15 year old computers in them. It was cringe-worthy.
Re: (Score:3)
You're joking, but that is actually a sizable cost factor.
My university gets by with students doing about 99% of the IT administrative tasks, from running cable to running servers, from writing accounting software to writing course management software. You can NEVER get cheaper workers than your students as a university, they work for some extra credit. Try to beat that cost.
Need some new software? No problem, Software Engineering part 2 deals with creating a real life project and producing it from concepti
Re: (Score:3)
Computer Science is an expensive department to maintain.
Cite? It's actually a pretty cheap department. Just need office space and electricity for computers, which is really no different than, say, an English department.
I don't even really remember what I learned in English classes.
Sounds like we should shutter English departments if they're doing such a bang-up job educating their graduates.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Tuition is supposed to pay for the cost of schooling. Please explain why my taxes should pay for your schooling.
And, a better explanation is that the administration staff is overpaid. The president of UF makes $750,000 a year. That is more than the president of the country.
Re: (Score:3)
Tuition is supposed to pay for the cost of schooling. Please explain why my taxes should pay for your schooling.
The idealized view is that a educated public makes a better society.
The cynical view is that your legislature doesn't give a damn about education, but needs a university as a status symbol.
For a more pragmatic answer, much of modern technology stems from universities. Businesses don't like to invest in basic research because it's not going to make a positive impact on their next quarterly earnings report. But your state taxes support institutions that do keep basic research alive in this country, and your
Re: (Score:3)
A good CS person just hard to find - most have no clue about BigO.
You can't get past the CS weed-out classes without learning about Big O. [wikipedia.org]
You can't get through the anime club presentations without learning about Big O. [wikipedia.org]
You can't join ACM if you know about Big O. [wikipedia.org]