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The JavaScript Juggernaut Rolls On 505

Posted by Soulskill
from the building-tools-to-build-more-tools dept.
JThaddeus writes "An article in TechWorld Australia summarizes the latest opinions on JavaScript from ThoughtWorks: 'There is no end in sight to the rise of JavaScript... "I think JavaScript has been seen as a serious language for the last two or three years; I think now increasingly we're seeing JavaScript as a platform," said Sam Newman, ThoughtWorks' Global Innovation Lead.' The article touches on new additions to JavaScript tools, techniques, and languages built on JavaScript. As the fuller report (PDF) says, 'The ecosystem around JavaScript as a serious application platform continues to evolve. Many interesting new tools for testing, building, and managing dependencies in both server- and client-side JavaScript applications have emerged recently.'"
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The JavaScript Juggernaut Rolls On

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  • by lesincompetent (2836253) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @12:42PM (#46128579)
    Great... more single-core-hogging fun ahead...
  • Peak "platform" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PCM2 (4486) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @12:45PM (#46128591) Homepage

    Is the word "platform" officially over? My fucking toaster is a bread-browning platform.

  • Re:Replusive (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nkwe (604125) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:03PM (#46128667)

    Why do the worst technologies that are just barely able to solve the problem always make it? Is the developer community collectively really this stupid? I fear it is...

    Because technologies that just barely solve a problem allow people who can just barely do the job to barely solve the problem. People that can barely do the job are less expensive than people who do the job right. Unfortunate enough people are willing to live with "just barely".

  • by Foresto (127767) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:06PM (#46128677) Homepage

    ...a programming language (still) doesn't have to be good in order to see widespread use.

  • by tepples (727027) <tepples@nOSpAM.gmail.com> on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:09PM (#46128705) Homepage Journal
    The last time that was tried, it was called Java applets, and Oracle's incompetence at keeping its virtual machine secure led to browsers blocking Java applets by default.
  • Worse is better (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tepples (727027) <tepples@nOSpAM.gmail.com> on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:11PM (#46128719) Homepage Journal
    Read the essay "Worse is better" [jwz.org] and you might understand more about what causes this
  • by tepples (727027) <tepples@nOSpAM.gmail.com> on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:15PM (#46128749) Homepage Journal

    Why are some developers obsessed with performance? The user probably isn't. They don't care whether something loads 2 seconds quicker

    I thought loading faster was the difference between the user staying on a document and the user hitting the Back button to return to someone else's document. Web search engines have recognized this and have started to penalize slow-loading documents.

  • by neorush (1103917) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:16PM (#46128759) Homepage
    I'm kind of surprised that there is not one good comment about the benefits of javascript up above this yet. I mean you can off load sooo much data to the client cpu. With the latest in webstorage and the sqlite port to JS I can actually create a friggen database server running on the client. WebRTC and WebSockets are seriously about the change everything in the next 1-2 years....I'm curious how many of the above posts are done by folks who actually do web development? It is pretty much indispensable these days, and really pretty awesome, so get used to it.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:23PM (#46128799)

    It really says something about JavaScript that the "hottest" technologies are ingenious ways to avoid actually CODING in JavaScript!

  • Re:Replusive (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Skinny Rav (181822) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:27PM (#46128821)

    Good enough is perfect.

    You can endlessly polish your elegant solutions for decades (see Hurd) while the rest of the world happily uses "technologies that are just barely able to solve the problem".

  • by mark-t (151149) <markt@lynx.b c . ca> on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:29PM (#46128839) Journal

    One thing I personally like about Javascript is that it covers all three of the currently most popular programming paradigms.

    You want an imperative style of development? Javascript can do that, check.

    You want an object-oriented style of development? Javascript can do that, check.

    You want a functional style of development? Javascript can do that too, check.

    Some would argue that by covering so many different paradigms, it ends up covering none of them as well as languages that are designed for a specific paradigm from the ground up, and I wouldn't really refute this point... but it easily does all three of them well enough to still be profoundly productive when developing in any of them, and this means that a programmer is relatively free to pick the paradigm that best models the original problem when designing a solution. This, in my experience, results in shorter development cycles, and frequently much less buggy code.

  • by cyber-vandal (148830) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:44PM (#46128933) Homepage

    COBOL is a far better language than JS. JS is more likely to be the next VB6.

  • Re:I has a sad (Score:2, Insightful)

    by narcc (412956) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:44PM (#46128935) Journal

    So... What's wrong with the language? Or were you just repeating the meme?

  • Re:Replusive (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jbolden (176878) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:53PM (#46128987) Homepage

    Because "worst language" is generally a compromise between competing ideas and interests of various stakeholders. Compromise is rarely pretty.

  • by ferrisoxide.com (1935296) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @01:54PM (#46128989) Homepage
    Why pick one when you can pick all three in the same application? :)

    No, you're absolutely right - being able to choose a mode of programming is neat and Java does lend itself to doing neat things. But it still feels like a language that someone quickly hacked together. And the freedom to pick a paradigm means your fellow coders get to pick whatever happens to be in their clue bucket for the day. At least with a language that focuses on imperative or functional coding you can be reasonably sure that the guy sitting next to you has a similar view of reality as you do. "Multi-paradigm" is a bit like saying "post modern", with all the positive and negative connotations. I prefer my languages neo-classical :)
  • by zieroh (307208) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @02:04PM (#46129067)

    I have decades of industry experience in Silicon Valley as well. And really, your post comes off more as a bunch of whining than an actual critique. There are always going to be new technologies, and the people who are heavily invested in the previous generation of technologies will always groan about these dag-gone kids with all their newfangled ways of doing things. Heck, I've been guilty of this kind of thinking myself.

    But you know what? When we entered the industry as young whippersnappers, the previous generation of programmers said the exact same kinds of things about us.

    And somehow, despite all that, progress marches on.

  • Re:jscript (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Bite The Pillow (3087109) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @02:19PM (#46129177)

    Sounds like you are not using the correct tools and environment, which makes debugging harder. And using that same setup to read news with a coding environment is just stupid. I don't read news with my development database or web server, so why would I risk infecting my development environment from known malware vectors of even legit advertising?
    You conclude with "horrible language", but your comments support "horrible programmers" all the way around.
    I'm making no defense here, only pointing out that your opinion is not based on objective consideration. Were it otherwise, you would support your conclusion better, naturally.

  • Re:Peak "platform" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SunTzuWarmaster (930093) on Saturday February 01, 2014 @02:20PM (#46129185) Homepage

    Words have meaning and purpose. What words would you use to express the following concepts?

      - a collection of tools which allow you to build a new component through their leverage, while not contributing significantly to the overall effectiveness of the tools (or won't particularly be used in operation)

      - a collection of functional components which you will use as part of the operation of a new component

    Currently, the words are "platform" and "system". I'm happy to switch to other words if they express the concept better.

  • Re:Web Workers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hairyfeet (841228) <bassbeast1968@@@gmail...com> on Saturday February 01, 2014 @05:03PM (#46130069) Journal

    I'll get hate from the programmers but fuck it, truth is truth. Wanna know what is wrong with JavaScript? The entire damned concept, that is what!

    I mean think about it, if I told you "I have an idea! Just to get some information you are gonna have to run strange code from over a dozen places, you don't know these places, if they have malware, you have to trust ALL these places or you can't have the information" you'd say that is seriously fucking STUPID, wouldn't you? That is how modern ad driven web works, calling shit from God knows where with zero control or fine grained permissions, its all run by default....STUPID.

    What we need is either a new language built from the ground up with the realization that there are seriously nasty people out there trying to fuck your systems up, or JavaScript seriously needs a rewrite with the modern situation in mind. As it is now everybody keeps trying to fix the bullet wounds of failed design with bandaids like sandboxing, low rights mode, but at the end of the day the very concept of clicking on a link and suddenly getting code from a dozen sites you don't know and executing that code? its just a dumb idea.

  • Re:Web Workers (Score:4, Insightful)

    by WaywardGeek (1480513) on Sunday February 02, 2014 @12:47AM (#46132073) Journal

    Heck, you're right and didn't even have to go into how f-ed up JavaScript is as a language... "dynamic scoping"... really??? That idea sucked in Lisp and I thought we got past it in the 60's after that cock-up. And now we're supposed to take this bastard child serisouly?

Mathemeticians stand on each other's shoulders while computer scientists stand on each other's toes. -- Richard Hamming

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