United States

US Government Tells Officials, Politicians To Ditch Regular Calls and Texts (reuters.com) 38

The U.S. government is urging senior government officials and politicians to ditch phone calls and text messages following intrusions at major American telecommunications companies blamed on Chinese hackers. From a report: In written guidance, opens new tab released on Wednesday, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency said "individuals who are in senior government or senior political positions" should "immediately review and apply" a series of best practices around the use of mobile devices.

The first recommendation: "Use only end-to-end encrypted communications." End-to-end encryption -- a data protection technique which aims to make data unreadable by anyone except its sender and its recipient -- is baked into various chat apps, including Meta's WhatsApp, Apple's iMessage, and the privacy-focused app Signal. Neither regular phone calls nor text messages are end-to-end encrypted, which means they can be monitored, either by the telephone companies, law enforcement, or - potentially - hackers who've broken into the phone companies' infrastructure.

Security

Bluesky Has an Extortion Problem (tedium.co) 36

A cybersquatting scheme targeting prominent writers and entrepreneurs has exposed flaws in Bluesky's domain-based verification system, newsletter Tedium reports, citing users.

Bloomberg columnist Conor Sen reported receiving an extortion attempt this week when an anonymous user who had purchased his namesake domain demanded payment to transfer ownership. The episode has unraveled wider revelations of similar attacks targeting at least five other well-known users, including political blogger Matt Yglesias and The Hustle founder Sam Parr.

The platform's moderation team initially banned Parr's legitimate account while leaving the impersonator active, Sen told Tedium. The fake account was only removed after users escalated the issue to senior Bluesky staff.
AI

Microsoft Acquires Twice as Many Nvidia AI Chips as Tech Rivals (ft.com) 12

Microsoft bought twice as many of Nvidia's flagship chips as any of its largest rivals in the US and China this year, as OpenAI's biggest investor accelerated its investment in artificial intelligence infrastructure. From a report: Analysts at Omdia, a technology consultancy, estimate that Microsoft bought 485,000 of Nvidia's "Hopper" chips this year. That put Microsoft far ahead of Nvidia's next biggest US customer Meta, which bought 224,000 Hopper chips, as well as its cloud computing rivals Amazon and Google.

With demand outstripping supply of Nvidia's most advanced graphics processing units for much of the past two years, Microsoft's chip hoard has given it an edge in the race to build the next generation of AI systems. This year, Big Tech companies have spent tens of billions of dollars on data centres running Nvidia's latest chips, which have become the hottest commodity in Silicon Valley since the debut of ChatGPT two years ago kick-started an unprecedented surge of investment in AI.

Transportation

Driverless Bus Service In Scotland To Be Withdrawn Due To Lack of Interest (theguardian.com) 72

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The UK's first driverless bus service, originally heralded as a breakthrough of global significance, is being withdrawn from service because too few passengers used it. The autonomous buses, operated by Stagecoach, have been running between Fife and Edinburgh along a 14-mile route over the Forth road bridge since May 2023 to relieve the heavy congestion which can bring traffic to a standstill.

The CAVForth service, a collaboration between Fusion Processing, the coach-building company Alexander Dennis, Napier University in Edinburgh and the Bristol Robotics Lab -- a joint venture between the University of Bristol and the University of the West of England -- was touted as the most ambitious and complex in the world. Built at an estimated cost of more than 6 million pounds, partly funded by the UK government, the fleet of five single-decker buses had the capacity to carry 10,000 passengers a week but needed two crew on board for safety reasons.
Stagecoach said in a statement: "We are proud to have achieved a world first with our CAVForth autonomous bus service, demonstrating the potential for self-driving technology on a real-world registered timetable in East Scotland. Although passenger adoption did not meet expectations, the trial has significantly advanced the understanding of the operational and regulatory requirements for autonomous services, delivering what was expected from this demonstrator project. The partners remain committed to exploring new opportunities for self-driving technology in other areas across the UK, ensuring that this exciting innovation can play a transformative role in future transport networks."
EU

EU Opens Investigation Into TikTok Over Election Interference (reuters.com) 69

The European Commission has launched formal proceedings against TikTok over concerns about its failure to limit election interference, particularly in last month's Romanian presidential vote. Reuters reports: The Commission said it will request information and look into TikTok's policy on political advertisements and paid-for political content as well as TikTok's systems to generate recommendations and the risks of them being manipulated. The opening of formal proceedings empowers the Commission to take further enforcement steps and to accept commitments made by TikTok. There is no specific deadline to complete proceedings.
Transportation

Japan's Honda and Nissan To Reportedly Begin Merger Talks (cnbc.com) 64

Japanese automakers Honda and Nissan are reportedly in merger talks to form a holding company, potentially integrating Mitsubishi Motors to compete with industry giants like Toyota and Volkswagen. CNBC reports: The combined Nissan-Honda-Mitsubishi enterprise would equate to more than 8 million vehicle sales annually, according to Nikkei. That would place the company among the world's largest automakers, but still below fellow Japanese automaker Toyota Motor, at 11.2 million in 2023, as well as German automaker Volkswagen, which last year reported sales of 9.2 million vehicles.

The merger report follows the two Japanese automakers entering into a strategic partnership earlier this year on shared automotive components and software. Such a tie-up would be the largest automotive industry merger since Fiat Chrysler joined with France-based PSA Groupe to form Stellantis in January 2021.
Honda and Nissan said in similar statements: "The reported content was not released by our company," Honda said. "As announced in March of this year, Honda and Nissan are exploring various possibilities for future collaboration, leveraging each other's strengths. We will inform our stakeholders of any updates at an appropriate time."
Communications

Big Loss For ISPs as Supreme Court Won't Hear Challenge To $15 Broadband Law (arstechnica.com) 30

The Supreme Court has rejected the broadband industry's challenge to a New York law that requires Internet providers to offer $15- or $20-per-month service to people with low incomes. From a report: In August, six trade groups representing the cable, telecom, mobile, and satellite industries filed a petition asking the Supreme Court to overturn an appeals court ruling that upheld the state law. But the Supreme Court won't take up the case. The Supreme Court denied the telecom groups' petition without comment in a list of orders released yesterday.

Although a US District Court judge blocked the law in 2021, that judge's ruling was reversed by the US Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit in April 2024. The Supreme Court's denial of the industry petition leaves the 2nd Circuit ruling in place. The appeals court ruling is an important one for the broader question of how states can regulate broadband providers when the Federal Communications Commission isn't doing so. Trade groups claimed the state law is preempted by former FCC Chairman Ajit Pai's repeal of net neutrality rules, which ended Title II common-carrier regulation of ISPs.

In a 2-1 opinion, a panel of 2nd Circuit appeals court judges said the Pai-era FCC "order stripped the agency of its authority to regulate the rates charged for broadband Internet, and a federal agency cannot exclude states from regulating in an area where the agency itself lacks regulatory authority."

United Kingdom

Hundreds of Websites To Shut Down Under UK's 'Chilling' Internet Laws (telegraph.co.uk) 100

Hundreds of websites will be shut down on the day that Britain's Online Safety Act comes into effect, in what are believed to be the first casualties of the new internet laws. From a report: Microcosm, a web forum hosting service that runs 300 sites including cycling forums and local community hubs, said that the sites would go offline on March 16, the day that Ofcom starts enforcing the Act.

Its owner said they were unable to comply with the lengthy requirements of the Act, which created a "disproportionately high personal liability." The new laws, which were designed to crack down on illegal content and protect children, threaten fines of at least $23 million for sites that fail to comply with the laws. On Monday, Ofcom set out more than 40 measures that it expects online services to follow by March, such as carrying out risk assessments about their sites and naming senior people accountable for ensuring safety.

United States

DHS Says China, Russia, Iran, and Israel Are Spying on People in US with SS7 (404media.co) 76

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) believes that China, Russia, Iran, and Israel are the "primary" countries exploiting security holes in telecommunications networks to spy on people inside the United States, which can include tracking their physical movements and intercepting calls and texts, according to information released by Senator Ron Wyden. 404 Media: The news provides more context around use of SS7, the exploited network and protocol, against phones in the country. In May, 404 Media reported that an official inside DHS's Cybersecurity Insurance and Security Agency (CISA) broke with his department's official narrative and publicly warned about multiple SS7 attacks on U.S. persons in recent years. Now, the newly disclosed information provides more specifics on where at least some SS7 attacks are originating from.

The information is included in a letter the Department of Defense (DoD) wrote in response to queries from the office of Senator Wyden. The letter says that in September 2017 DHS personnel gave a presentation on SS7 security threats at an event open to U.S. government officials. The letter says that Wyden staff attended the event and saw the presentation. One slide identified the "primary countries reportedly using telecom assets of other nations to exploit U.S. subscribers," it continues.

AI

Nvidia Launches Entry-Level AI Computer for Small Developers 29

Nvidia unveiled a $249 version of its Jetson AI computer Tuesday, targeting hobbyists and small companies with a device that offers 70% more processing power than its predecessor at half the cost.

The Jetson Orin Nano Super functions as a portable AI brain for robotics and industrial automation, allowing developers to run AI computations directly without data center connections. The palm-sized device, demonstrated by Nvidia founder Jensen Huang, uses less advanced chips than the company's high-end products. While Nvidia primarily serves major companies and AI startups, the budget-friendly Jetson line aims to make AI development more accessible to students and smaller developers working on drones and cameras.
Facebook

Meta Fined $263 Million Over 2018 Security Breach That Affected 3 Million EU Users (techcrunch.com) 24

Meta has been fined around $263 million in the European Union for a Facebook security breach that affected millions of users which the company disclosed back in September 2018. From a report: The penalty, issued on Tuesday by Ireland's Data Protection Commission (DPC) -- enforcing the bloc's General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) -- is far from being the largest GDPR fine Meta has been hit with since the regime came into force over five years ago but is notable for being a substantial sanction for a single security incident.

The breach it relates to dates back to July 2017 when Facebook, as the company was still known then, rolled out a video upload function that included a "View as" feature which let the user see their own Facebook page as it would be seen by another user. A bug in the design allowed users making use of the feature to invoke the video uploader in conjunction with Facebook's 'Happy Birthday Composer' facility to generate a fully permissioned user token that gave them full access to the Facebook profile of that other user. They could then use the token to exploit the same combination of features on other accounts -- gaining unauthorized access to multiple users' profiles and data, per the DPC.

The Courts

TikTok Asks Supreme Court To Block Law Banning Its US Operations (reuters.com) 134

An anonymous reader quotes a report from the New York Times: TikTokasked the Supreme Court on Monday to temporarily block a law that would effectively ban it in the United States in a matter of weeks. Saying that the law violates both its First Amendment rights and those of its 170 million American users, TikTok, which is controlled by a Chinese parent company, urged the justices to maintain the status quo while they decide whether to hear an appeal. "Congress's unprecedented attempt to single out applicants and bar them from operating one of the most significant speech platforms in this nation presents grave constitutional problems that this court likely will not allow to stand," lawyers for TikTok wrote in their emergency application.

President Biden signed the law this spring after it was enacted with wide bipartisan support. Lawmakers said the app's ownership represented a risk because the Chinese government's oversight of private companies would allow it to retrieve sensitive information about Americans or to spread propaganda, though they have not publicly shared evidence that this has occurred. They have also noted that American platforms like Facebook and YouTube are banned in China, and that TikTok itself is not allowed in the country.

Japan

Waymo Robotaxis Are Coming To Tokyo In 2025 (techcrunch.com) 13

Waymo will begin testing its autonomous vehicles in Tokyo in early 2025, marking its first deployment outside the U.S. TechCrunch reports: The move to Japan is part of Waymo's "road trips," a development program that involves bringing its technology to a variety of cities and testing it -- with each city having different challenges. In Tokyo, the Waymo robotaxis will face left-hand driving and a dense urban environment. [...] Waymo said it will partner with taxi-hailing app GO and taxi company Nihon Kotsu as part of its Japanese "road trip." Nihon Kotsu will oversee the management and servicing of the Waymo vehicles, according to the company.

Initially, Nihon Kotsu drivers will operate the vehicles manually to map key areas of the Japanese capital, including Minato, Shinjuku, Shibuya, Chiyoda, Chuo, Shinagawa, and Koto. Waymo said it is working with Nihon Kotsu's team to train its employees how to operate Waymo's self-driving Jaguar I-Pace vehicles.

Transportation

Uber Will Need To Fingerprint Drivers In California To Transport Teens (techcrunch.com) 98

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Uber has 30 days to require certain drivers to get fingerprinted if the ride-hail giant intends to continue transporting unaccompanied teens in California. The California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) issued a ruling Thursday that requires taxi and ride-hail drivers who are carrying unaccompanied minors in the state to pass a fingerprint background check. The ruling also requires transport companies to pay for the cost of those background checks. "When an adult is being tasked to provide a service to a minor, the adult is placed in a position of trust, responsibility, and control over California's most vulnerable citizenry -- children," reads the decision. "Not conducting a fingerprint-based background check to identify adults with disqualifying arrests or criminal records would place the unaccompanied minor in a potentially dangerous, if not life-threatening situation." [...]

The CPUC's ruling also requires transport companies that intend to transport minors share information with the agency on how they implement live trip tracking for parents, what safety procedures they implement at pickup and drop-off locations, and what sort of driver training the companies implement specifically around transporting unaccompanied minors. The ruling also says that each company is responsible for paying for the checks. Uber has also argued against this stipulation, saying that forcing the company -- which has a market cap of around $150 billion as of December -- to pay for fingerprinting would result in a price hike for the Uber for Teens service.

The Internet

Cloudflare 2024: Global Traffic Up, Google Still King, US Churning Out Bots (theregister.com) 11

Cloudflare's 2024 internet traffic report highlights a 17.2% global increase in traffic, with Google maintaining its position as the most visited service and the U.S. responsible for 34.6% of bot traffic. The Register reports: One surprise (or perhaps not) is that IPv6 traffic is actually down as a percentage of the packets that passed through Cloudflare's network. It says that 28.5 percent of global traffic was IPv6 during 2024, whereas last year's report put this figure at 33.75 percent. The company also reveals that a fifth of all TCP connections (20.7 percent) are unexpectedly terminated before any useful data can be exchanged. Causes of this could vary from DoS attacks, quirky client behavior, or a network interrupting a connection to filter content.

Coudflare says about half of these incidents were connections closed "Post SYN" -- after its server has received a client's SYN packet, but before a subsequent acknowledgement (ACK) or any useful data. These can be attributed to DoS attacks or internet scanning, while Post-ACK or Post-PSH anomalies are more often associated with connection tampering activity such as filtering, especially if they occur at high rates in specific networks. Mobile device traffic accounted for about 41.3 percent of the total, which is roughly the same as last year. This is largely split between the Apple and Android ecosystems, with iOS on almost a third and Android accounting for two-thirds. [...]

Google's Chrome appears to be the most popular browser by far, accounting for 65.8 percent of all requests during 2024. Just 15.5 percent came from Apple's Safari browser, which leads the way on iOS devices, naturally. Microsoft's Edge accounted for 6.9 percent of browsing, while Mozilla Firefox stood at 4 percent. For search engines, Google also claimed the top spot, with a greater than 88 percent share of all search traffic that passed through Cloudflare. Yandex and Baidu were next with 3.1 percent and 2.7 percent, respectively, while Bing trailed with 2.6 percent. DuckDuckGo accounted for 0.9 percent of searches.
You can read Cloudflare's full Year in Review here.
AI

AI Helps ID Paint Chemistry of Berlin Wall Murals (arstechnica.com) 20

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: The fall of the Berlin Wall in November 1989 was a seminal moment in 20th century history, paving the way for German reunification. Many segments, both large and small, were preserved for posterity -- including portions covered in graffiti or murals. A team of Italian scientists used a combination of spectroscopic analysis and machine learning to study paint chips from wall fragments to learn more about the chemistry of the paints and pigments used, according to a new paper published in the Journal of the American Chemical Society. [...] Nondestructive techniques like Raman spectroscopy are often used to identify the molecular signatures of pigments, dyes, and other chemical compounds, but this usually requires bringing samples to the lab. Handheld Raman devices are used for cases where analysis must be done on-site, but they are far less precise than full-size laboratory equipment. So [Francesco Armetta of the University of Palermo and co-authors of the paper] decided to adopt a machine-learning approach to enhance the precision and sensitivity of spectral data collected by those handheld devices.

The team collected 15 pictorial fragments of five different colors from Berlin Wall paintings. They used handheld Raman spectroscopy on the paint chips and compared that spectral data to a commercial library of pigment spectra, confirming those findings with X-ray fluorescence and optical fiber reflectance spectroscopy. Most of the fragments had two top layers that had been painted with a brush rather than spray paint; brushstrokes were clearly visible under a microscope in several cases. The underlying third layer, in contact with the masonry, was white and probably used to prepare the surface for painting. Calcium and titanium were the most abundant elements in all the samples. Chromium and lead were present in a green-colored sample, and the authors think this was mixed with another color to get that particular shade. There were also traces of copper in blue and green samples.

Armetta et al. also created their own mock-up samples by mixing commercial German acrylic paints (commonly used since the 1800s) in different ratios to try to match colors and tints from the fragments -- crucial information for restoration. This is where their machine-learning algorithm (dubbed SAPNet) proved useful. They trained it on the Raman spectral data from the Berlin Wall samples and used it to determine the percentage of pigment. The model concluded that the Berlin Wall paint chips contained titanium white and as much as 75 percent pigment. "The identification of most of the components of the fragments was only possible through the comprehensive evaluation of the results provided by all the techniques [combined]," the authors concluded, further augmented by the development of SAPNet. "While SAPNet was specifically tailored for pigment mixture analysis, its robust framework demonstrates the transformative potential of deep learning methodologies for Raman spectral analysis across diverse scientific and industrial applications."

EU

EU Signs $1 Billion Deal For Sovereign Satellite Constellation To Rival Starlink (techcrunch.com) 109

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: The European Union is forging ahead with plans for a constellation of internet satellites to rival Elon Musk-owned Starlink, after signing a $11.1 billion deal to launch nearly 300 satellites into low- and medium-Earth orbits by 2030. The bloc wants the space tech to boost its digital sovereignty by providing secure comms to governments.

First announced in 2022, Iris^2 (Infrastructure for Resilience, Interconnectivity and Security by Satellite) is a public-private partnership whose initial cost estimate (6 billion euros) leapt 76% through a fraught negotiation process. In the end, the program will be 61% funded from the public purse; an industry consortium called SpaceRise, selected in October, is making up the difference. This grouping includes French satellite giant Eutelsat, which merged with European rival OneWeb back in 2022.

Chrome

Now ChromeOS Can Reset Itself Without Erasing Your Laptop (theverge.com) 17

An anonymous reader shares a report: Google announced it's rolling out ChromeOS M131 to non-beta users, bringing with it a handy "Safety reset" feature that lets Chromebook users reset their laptops without totally wiping them. The update also introduced a new "Flash notifications" accessibility option to help those who might not otherwise easily hear or see them.

Like Powerwash in ChromeOS, Safety reset will wipe the slate clean if you're experiencing computer virus-like behavior such as unusual pop-ups. But where Powerwash is a full factory reset, Safety reset preserves local data and apps, as well as things like bookmarks and saved passwords, according to a help document about the feature.

Transportation

Two Drone Pilots Arrested Near Boston, and Drones Cause One-Hour Runway Closure at North New York Airport (go.com) 89

Saturday night two men were arrested near Boston "following a hazardous drone operation near Logan Airport's airspace," according to a police statement. They credit an officer "leveraging advanced UAS monitoring technology" who "identified the drone's location, altitude, flight history, and the operators' position." Recognizing the serious risks posed by the drone's proximity to Logan's airspace, additional resources were mobilized. The Boston Police Department coordinated with Homeland Security, the Massachusetts State Police, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and Logan Airport Air Traffic Control to address the situation.
"Both suspects face charges of trespassing, with additional fines or charges potentially forthcoming."

Meanwhile on Friday night "Officials at Stewart International Airport, located roughly 60 miles north of New York City, said they shut down their runways for an hour," reports ABC News, after America's Federal Aviation Administration "alerted them that a drone was spotted in the area around 9:30 p.m." Though officials say flight operations weren't impacted during the closure, the article notes that New York's governor is now calling for federal assistance, including more federal law enforcement officers, saying "This has gone too far." [Governor Hochul] called on Congress to pass the Counter-UAS Authority Security, Safety, and Reauthorization Act, which would strengthen the FAA's oversight of drones and give more authority to state and local law enforcement agencies to investigate the activity.
The article explores the larger problem of Americans reporting drone sightings: Officials from a wide range of federal agencies spoke with reporters Saturday on a phone call and emphasized that the federal investigation into drone sightings in New Jersey is ongoing. One FBI official said that out of the nearly 5,000 tips they have received, less than 100 have generated credible leads for further investigation. A Department of Homeland Security official said that they are "confident that many of the reported drone sightings are, in fact, manned aircraft being misidentified as drones." The FBI official also talked about how investigators overlaid the locations of the reported drone sightings and found that "the density of reported sightings matches the approach pattern" of the New York area's busy airports including Newark-Liberty, JFK, and LaGuardia.

But, an FAA official says that there have "without a doubt" been drones flying over New Jersey, pointing to the fact that there are nearly a million drones registered in the U.S. "With nearly a million registered [unmanned aircraft systems] in the United States, there's no doubt many of them are owned and operated here within the state," the FAA official said... A Joint Chiefs of Staff official said that there have been visual sightings of drones reported by "highly trained security personnel" near Picatinny Arsenal and Naval Weapons Station Earle in New Jersey. The official said that they do not believe the sightings "were aligned with a foreign actor, or that they had malicious intent."

"We don't know what activity is. We don't know if it is criminal, but I will tell you that it is irresponsible," the official said. "Here on the military side, we are just as frustrated with the irresponsible nature of this activity."

Later ABC News reported that the FAA had imposed temporary drone flight restrictions in New Jersey over the Picatinny Arsenal military base. And they added that America's Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas "said the federal government is taking action to address the aerial drones that have prompted concern among New Jersey residents. "I want to assure the American public that we in the federal government have deployed additional resources, personnel, technology to assist the New Jersey State Police in addressing the drone sightings...." There have been numerous reports of drone activity along the East Coast since November. Mayorkas cited the 2023 change of a Federal Aviation Administration rule that allows drones to fly at night as to why there might be an uptick in sightings. "I want to assure the American public that we are on it," he said, before calling on Congress to expand local and state authority to help address the issue.

"It is critical, as we all have said for a number of years, that we need from Congress additional authorities to address the drone situation," Mayorkas said. "Our authorities currently are limited and they are set to expire. We need them extended and expanded... We want state and local authorities to also have the ability to counter growing activity under federal supervision," he added, echoing sentiments from local officials...

Addressing national security concerns the sightings have prompted, Mayorkas said the U.S. knows of no foreign involvement and that it remains "vigilant" in investigating the drone sightings. [ABC News anchor George] Stephanopoulos pressed Mayorkas about past security threats drones have caused, including the arrest of a Chinese national last week who allegedly flew a drone over an Air Force base in California. "When a drone is flown over restricted airspace, we act very, very swiftly," the homeland security secretary said. "In fact, when an individual in California flew a drone over restricted airspace, that individual was identified, apprehended and is being charged by federal authorities."

AI

Are People Starting to Love Self-Driving Robotaxis? (marketplace.org) 106

"In a tiny handful of places..." Wired wrote last month, "you can find yourself flanked by taxis with no one in the drivers' seats." But they added that "Granted, practically everyone has been numbed by the hype cycle."

Wired's response? "[P]ile a few of us into an old-fashioned, human-piloted hired car, then follow a single Waymo robotaxi wherever it goes for a whole workday" to "study its movements, its relationship to life on the streets, its whole self-driving gestalt. We'll interview as many of its passengers as will speak to us, and observe it through the eyes of the kind of human driver it's designed to replace."

This week Wired senior editor John Gravios discussed the experience on the business-news radio show Marketplace (with Marketplace host Kai Ryssdal): Ryssdal: What kinds of reactions did you get from people once you track them down, what did they say about their experience in this driverless car?

Gravios:It was pretty uniform and impressive how much people just love it. They just like the experience of the drive, I guess it's a little bit less herky-jerky than a human driver, but I think a lot of it just comes down to people are just kind of relieved not to have to talk to somebody else, as as sad as that is...

Ryssdal: Tell me about Gabe, your Uber driver, and his thoughts on this whole thing, because that was super interesting.

Gravios: So Gabe, this is a guy whose labor is directly at stake. You know, he's a guy whose labor is going to be replaced by a Waymo. He's had 30 years of experience as a professional driver, first as a taxi driver. He even organized a taxi driver strike in the days before Uber. His first, I think his prejudice with Waymo is having shared the road with them sort of sporadically, he thought of them as kind of dopey, rule-following, frustrating vehicles to share the road with. But over the course of the day, he started to recognize that the Waymo was driving a lot like a taxi driver. The Waymo was doing things that were aggressive, that are exactly the kinds of things that a taxi driver is trained to be aggressive with and doing things that were cautious that are exactly the kinds of things that taxi drivers are trained to be cautious with.

Ryssdal: Can we talk unit economics here? According to the math from a study you guys' cite, Waymo is not making a whole lot of money per vehicle, right? And eventually they're going to scale, and it's going to work out, but for the moment, even though they've gotten 11 billion-something-dollars, they're not turning a whole lot of profit here.

Gravios: Yeah, that's a big question, and the math is, even that study, based on a lot of guesswork. It's really hard to say what the unit economics are. What we can say is that the ridership rates are going up so fast that that study is already well out of date. When we were doing our chase, I think the monthly ridership for Waymo was 100,000 rides a month. By October, it was already 150,000 rides a month. So, the economics are just shifting under our feet a lot.

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