Hiring Is Up in Silicon Valley for High-Skill Jobs 208
Carl Bialik writes to tell us the Wall Street Journal is reporting that five years after the dot-com burst, job growth is finally returning to Silicon Valley. From the article: "Doug Henton, an economist and co-author of the report, says with the growth in these creative engineering jobs, a new face of Silicon Valley is emerging. 'Ten years ago, this was an engineering Valley that pumped out chips and computers,' he says. 'Now it's all about creative tech and staying on the cutting edge.'"
Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:2)
Re:Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:2)
The yield curve is not looking that great and historically we always have a recession soon after the fed stops raising rates.
The longer term forecasts are for a sharp short recession in late 2006 to mid 2007 then 2 good years, then a very harsh longer recession from 2010 to 2011.
Supposed to be okay after that.
Re:Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:2)
Depends from your prespective. At the moment interest rates are low, as are credit spreads. Which means its a great time for companies to issue debt - lots of money for low interest costs (which are fixed p.a. to the issuer remember). So if I was a startup I'd now be visiting brokers and banks to luck in on this funding.
And the Fed stops raising rates because, er, they have
Re:Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:2)
But several that I get (which are not the sky is falling lunatics) are forecasting recessions.
That recessions happen historically soon after rates stop rising is just a fact they state- I haven't done the personal research. They speculate that it is because the Fed always raises rates just a little too much and actually causes the recession as a result.
The longer term dates I mention are part of an 11 year cycle (tho the 2006-7 lays over
Re:Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:2)
From the graphic on that article ... (Score:2)
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/MK-
Okay, so most people don't read the articles, I know.
But the numbers don't match the story.
Re:guest workers will get the jobs (Score:2)
Re:Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:2)
Re:Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:2)
Re:Silicon Valley, first hand (Score:2)
Given the last 30 years of import/export data, any bank not in the United States lending to the United States better be earning 500-600% annual interest if they expect to break even. We've got an awfull credit history as a country, and the housing market is just the latest example of that.
WOOT (Score:2)
If you think it's worth it, you've never tried CS1721. . . intro to commenting
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
offshoring is stronger than ever (Score:4, Insightful)
It used to be that a single mom could hop on the IT train and start out as a call center rep, then get trained within as a black box software tester, then a glass box tester (where you get more familiar with code), and then a program (er, design and development) manager.
You can't do that any more.
The kind of jobs they're hiring for now requires the kind of skills only a handfull of the human population can get into.
Web engineering? Product development? Creative and innovation services? That's highly competitive stuff, if everyone takes that as a course in college they're still only going to hire one out of ten: the best of the best. Hire mister second place web engineer or innovator and you are doomed to make a product your competition will eat alive in the marketplace. By nature these jobs can only be done well by the winner in a long line of competitors. Think: ten people and one chair in a game of musical chairs.
There is a lot of talent out there that will no longer be tapped. There are a lot of good workers who will no longer contribute to the tech industry at all because they didn't win the cut throat competition for #1 product designer; people who would be quite good at software bug hunting and even customer support. Someone is still doing those jobs, they will never be obsolete - it's just not us Americans any more.
Steve Levy is right - a lack of diversity in the job force puts you at a far greater risk during a downturn. Oh but if he had any idea how truly right he is.
Here is a clue for everyone. There is not a single job mentioned in that article that cannot be done equally as well overseas for pennies on the US dollar. As time wears on, look to see all those engineering, web engineering, product development, and all creativity related jobs, can be done overseas.
The defenders of offshoring also lie a little bit in this story. They imply that offshoring caused a rise in the number of higher end jobs. That is untrue. Technology caused that. There's nothing here that actually shows that offshoring caused a rise in higher end jobs. Offshoring or not, that was going to happen anyway. Their numbers (the replacement figures) were off, too. NetFlix was said to have 100 customer service jobs in 2000. The implication in the article is that we'd only have 100 cust service jobs in 2005. Hardly. Netflix's customer base has grown dramatically. They would have seen dramatic growth in customer service work if they hadn't, undoubtedly, gone overseas. Well, ladies and gentlemen, all I have to say to that is good luck finding a customer service rep at Netflix who will understand your English. And keep an eye on your credit report too. Whatever country whose data center is now processing your information for Netflix is not within the FBI's jurisdiction. If some goon sells your information offshore, guess what? The FBI will never have any authority to bust that sucker. You have to beg that country to arrest them. Good luck. Hope you like your rental movie.
On the other hand, rumor has it (and I cannot really substantiate this) that companies like DVD Empire outsource their customer support in the US to cheaper areas to cut costs. Again, that is what I heard from a self described employee. I say this is highly ethical.
Another alarming note? The article noted another truth: employers are now looking for Master's and PhD's. Soon you will need a post graduate degree to get into the field. What will you do when the water line moves up to PhD's? What degree is higher than a PhD?
Oh, and I forgot. This article does not mention the not so trivial percentage of lower paid H1B workers hired into silicon valley's work force.
This "solid" article is little more than a cosmic sieve with holes big enough for small moons to sift through...
Re:offshoring is stronger than ever (Score:2)
Bigger companies might care about qualifications, but smaller ones want people who know what they are doing and can problem solve quickly, not some kid from uni with a degree (I went to uni and know how easy they are).
Experience and enthusiasm count, not drive to become a middle manager on a bloated salary
Re: (Score:2)
Re:offshoring is stronger than ever (Score:2)
But no one starts out that way. You need to start off in an entry level position with little knowledge, some competence and a whole lot of ignorance.
Now, what happens when all those entry-level jobs are sent overseas? The flow is interrupted. Your supply of Knowledgeable and Competent people will start to dwindle.
Employers that advertise "Entry Level" positions that require skills and experience are messed up.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:offshoring is stronger than ever (Score:2)
Mark this post. You tell me how long it takes to start college right now and get a BS / Master's degree for the luke warm or hot jobs of today. You get to name the job, too. I'll accept that number. By this time that many years from now, the job you named, will be on its way overseas and hiring in
Mod Parent Up... (Score:2)
That is why all of the Indian companies are CMM [cmu.edu] level 5 certified or better. They already understand their value proposition.
And Mod this one up, too (Score:2)
Re:offshoring is stronger than ever (Score:2)
A PhDD? Everybody wants double-Ds!
Re:offshoring is stronger than ever (Score:2)
Re:MBA's are stronger than ever (Score:2)
Re:WOOT (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
Seems you hate the liberal arts, but without philosophy degrees you wouldnt have laws, lawyers, and long term planning. Ultimately you need liberals arts even if just to write all the books and interpret all the laws.
Math can teach you how the world works but without understanding why, then the world still wont make sense.
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
Math has the benefit of being consistent. The why may be more elusive sometimes, but at least the what is pretty solid. If there are 2 pinecones on one side of a tree and 2 on the other side, there are 4 pinecones on the tree. That's as close as we humans get to absolute truth. Most of math is an expression of something that independent of the observer.
Contrast that with law as a fi
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
There is a logical math behind laws. Laws exist in math too. Point is, language must define all laws including math laws.
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
Erm, I took some compsci courses. (Score:2)
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
Re:WOOT (Pssst.. the H-1B quota is closed) (Score:2)
"Yay, would this mean outsourcing is going down, or that the industry is growing? Also, does this mean that it's actually worth it for me to continue my education and get a degree in Computer Engineering? "
The answer to the second question is no..... It's just the same pattern repeating itself. (1998, 1999, 2000, 2005...)
... Tech companies are now forced into the domestic JOB market as the H-1B quota is closed [uscis.gov] for the remainder of the federal fiscal year (til Oct 1).
Hence ALL the squeali
If you are going into CS, you better be the BEST (Score:2)
"SanDisk's fastest-growing job category has been product development and research, where the company is now hiring "at the master's level and Ph.D. level," says Judy Bruner, SanDisk's chief financial officer. "We can't take just a general engineer.""
Like I said in another thread - there are still jobs in IT. But gone are the days where you could be a dabbler in computers and have the world as your oyster. Today, the mundane and average jobs have been shipped overseas. If you want to work in
Re:WOOT (Score:2)
Hiring Up! Hiring Down! (Score:3, Insightful)
"What Goes Around Comes Around", indeed.
Re:Hiring Up! Hiring Down! (Score:2)
The belief that there is some eternal equilibrium that will never shift one way or the other is simply asinine. Cycles exist, yes, but past results are no indicator of future success, as they say. If you change fundamental variables then the cycle will cease repeating itself.
Re:Hiring Up! Hiring Down! (Score:2)
Devon
Re:Hiring Up! Hiring Down!-Death and taxes. (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, for High-Skilled Experienced Workers (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yes, for High-Skilled Experienced Workers (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yes, for High-Skilled Experienced Workers (Score:2)
If they're getting info from their own grads, I wouldn't be surprised.
I've heard Berkeley's a pretty good school and stuff.
Re:Yes, for High-Skilled Experienced Workers (Score:2)
Starting salaries, Yes. Salaries of the 'better than most' with 5 years of experience? No.
Yes, the pay looks good right out of college, but five years out, your still
a lot better off in business.
Re:Yes, for High-Skilled Experienced Workers (Score:2)
So, your solution to the perceived problem of us losing the edge on highly skilled tech workers is to concede that front entirely?
Well, I could disagree all day about that point, but I'd rather point out that we are not losing the batle on the high tech worker front. I've linked to theis in the past, but I'll continue to until people get it. We are still the science and technology leaders by a HUGE margin and ri [digitalelite.com]
Re:Yes, for High-Skilled Experienced Workers (Score:2)
The market has never been that bad for people who know what they are doing. There exists a corrolation, but it is not absolute.
Re:Yes, for High-Skilled Experienced Workers (Score:2)
In my experience, reasonably talented entry level people have been having more luck than most people with 3-4 years of experience but no particularly marketable skill. The basic problem is that the software developer market got flooded with far too many people looking for a way to make a quick buck. It will probably take a few more years of hard to find jobs and college students listening to people like yo
Re:Yes, for High-Skilled Experienced Workers (Score:2)
I can't believe that people don't want to hire the genius that thought up putting rockets in the hilts of katanas and using them to fly around! Unbelievable. Kudos on predicting a multiplayer game with vehicles mere weeks before Starsiege Tribes was released.
San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:5, Interesting)
It's important to distinguish between San Francisco and Silicon Valley. The Valley has recovered--traffic on 101 has long since become awful again, as today reminded me--but San Francisco still hasn't regained the equivalent of all those bubble-related jobs that vanished into the wind in the 2001-2002 time period, and probably never will. (I've been living in San Francisco for going on two years now and have yet to meet anyone who is working in a "Web" or "e-commerce" job up here. It's like a neutron bomb; the people went away but the buildings stayed.) By contrast, yes, the Valley lost tons of jobs, too, but at least the Valley had, and has, a longtime core of companies that made real products that do real thing dating back to the Fairchild/HP/Intel days. And on the Web side, of course, Google and Yahoo! are leading the charge. They're down there, though, and not up here. Unless and until another bubble develops, I expect San Francisco will remain a remarkably tech jobs-free (but with plenty of finance, retail, and other non tech-related companies) city on the edge of the world's greatest concentration of tech jobs.
Re:San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:3, Interesting)
I find it amusing, though: I live in the Central Valley of California, small-town, USA. My job is largely performed from the recliner in my living room, cordless phone at my side, notebook warming my lap. I often joke that "my commute is only 10 feet long, but the traffic is a bitch, what with 5 kids and all". I make good money at it, but my primary hosting servers are in San Fransisco!
Re:San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:3, Interesting)
have you meet anyone? I work at a "web/e-commerce" job, and so do half the people I know here in SF. Your right about there being fewer jobs, but there's still a lot compared to most cities in the US.
Re:San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:2, Informative)
Re:San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:2)
I've lived in the south bay for 16 years, and we have more biotech customers in the east bay than in the peninsula area.
Re:San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:2)
Re:San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:2)
Re:San Francisco isn't the Valley (Score:2)
There are a lot of tech service organizations in San Francisco that have been working hard to get our business in the silicon valley, but like somebody else said, the silicon valley companies typically build things (Palm, Apple, HP) or provide services that require a lot
Following skillsets in high demand (Score:3, Funny)
I've done a brief survey of the jobs on offer and for your convenience here is a summary of the main qualifications being looked for this time round:
and most importantly:
Re:Following skillsets in high demand (Score:2)
FWIW, I meet the first two listed requirements. But I got my curvy design certificate from the back of a van in an alley.
Re:Following skillsets in high demand (Score:2)
Funny... I thought Web 2.0 was coming out in the near future. I didn't know it was five years old already. Of course, it's not too surprising to see resumes with 20 years of
Programmed all my life (Score:2)
Re:Programmed all my life (Score:2)
I don't understand why people wouldn't get a job in the IT-area.
Here in Europe(Belgium) they pay big bucks for programmers, but they don't want the all round programmer who are poorly trained, they want the hard-core geek doing magic and who is most likely already working in another company as they're often "rarity".
They throw alot of money around to keep good people as they get lured by other companies too often. 2500-3000/month wouldn't be the exception.
If you've programmed as long and kept up with
Re:Programmed all my life (Score:2)
Re:Programmed all my life (Score:2)
Re:Programmed all my life (Score:2)
Re:Programmed all my life (Score:2)
Good luck!
Re:Programmed all my life (Score:2)
I can't believe that people don't want to hire the genius that thought up putting rockets in the hilts of katanas and using them to fly around! Unbelievable. Kudos on predicting a multiplayer game with vehicles mere weeks before Starsiege Tribes was released.
Who needs silicon valley? And isn't it about work? (Score:2)
Computer stuff is more and more becoming a craftmanship rather than science. Most people aren't competeing on innovation anymore, they're competing on price, performance, speed, specia
But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
Re:But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
Motion Pictures + Video Games + Anime/Manga = $22 billion a year.
That's just in the U.S. Then we can add Japan, Europe and Austraila.
Re:But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
Re:But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
They all make minimum wage. Every single one.
Re:But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
Every single one of them requires artists, writers, musicians, composers, animators, designers and directors.
Re:But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
As I said, for the most part, fine arts people don't make rent. A handful of workers at Pixar - the very best of the best in this universe and beyond - don't make that statement untrue.
I bet you a ton of fine arts grads apply there all the time and get turned down. Feh and meh that.
We need those entry level jobs - software testing and tech support - back - in order to revive what is commonly understood to be a sagging middle class.
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=249 [factcheck.org] ---
Re:But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
Why, I think I'll bust out me ol' canvas paint me up a few grand. Hallelujah, brother, I've seen the light!
Re:But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
Re:But IT is where the money is (Score:2)
Honestly though, I don't have statistical data. But when someone tells me there's a huge market for people in the fine arts and I know tons of artists who are unemployed, and I have great cause to believe them when they bring up the "starving artist" problem and state that they would be out on the street if they did not have another day job.
Sure, a handful of artists will make it big. They always do. Bu
The economy needs areas like Silicon Valley (Score:2)
Who needs silicon valley?
Urban concentrations are still important because of the social networks they engender. In particular, Silicon Valley has a very strong network of investors, universities, and veteran entrepreneurs. Perhaps more importantly, the environment in Silicon Valley is one that embraces risk. In the Valley, having worked at a few startups that bombed is not a mark of failure. It's more like a badge of courage. It shows that you have some experience and that you've learned something. Peop
Just in time - (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just in time - (Score:2)
Re:Just in time - (Score:2)
That is greatly tempered by our willingness in the US to have a 30-yr mortgage. Spreading pain (payment) over 30 years, and I've read of discussions for consideration of longer mortages, greatly eases things. Additionally, we offload risk as a business. It's easy enough to purchase insurance to cover unemployment - it simply requires one to do so (and no, I generally haven't either).
There's no nec
Real job (Score:3, Insightful)
1. Pension benefit
2. Paid vacation
3. Full insurance
Career job? Will it pay off a mortgage? Guaranteed contract?
If not, it's not a real job. Could be hired Monday and unemployed by Thursday. Meaningless.
Employers are not your parents (Score:2)
Can you give us an idea of how you would write a 'guaranteed contract'? I'm just curious as to the language you would use.
And, in case you wondered what I think, the guarantee you are looking for comes from within yourself. Your ability to make yourself valuable to a company, to contribute to the goals of the business, and to be a positive role model for others in the company will give you more opportunities than you can possibly handle in one lifetime. That's a lot more fun than trying to
Re:Employers are not your parents (Score:2)
Company will pay employee their salary in full for the entire length of the contract, layoffs and idiot managers notwithstanding. Just like any other guaranteed contract.
That's a lot more fun than trying to find the right company to be your surrogate parent.
I wouldn't have any problem with the "hired Monday fired Thursday" business model if the employee could simply cancel their credi
Not a cube drone (Score:2)
Re:Real job (Score:2)
Tell me one (non-government) job in any industry that is guaranteed to pay off a thrity year mortgage and I'll give you a free cookie.
Re:Real job (Score:2)
Yep. Dodgers play in California too. And there's a guaranteed contract here and there in baseball.
Right to work doesn't mean that contracts aren't allowed. There is no worse revenue agreement than a W-4 job. No business, and I mean NO business would accept a revenue agreement that can be unilaterally canceled.
When I was full-time I never saw anything "Guaranteed". Layoffs and downsizing - I saw plenty of that.
There's a surprise.
Re:Real job (Score:2)
It is an example. Right to work does not mean "no guaranteed contracts."
And you're surprised by layoffs? Seriously?
Nope. All jobs are layoffs. There are no jobs in this economy. It's all temporary half-pay no-benefit part-time non-career busywork while middle management stuffs their pockets and orders from the seafood menu. 50% of the working-age population in this society is not employed in a full-time permanent job. FIFTY percent.
And
This is fine for C.S. grads, etc .... BUT.... (Score:2)
A little too self defeating.. (Score:3, Interesting)
"Oracle Database 10g Express Edition [oracle.com] (Oracle Database XE) is an entry-level, small-footprint database based on the Oracle Database 10g Release 2 code base that's free to develop, deploy, and distribute; fast to download; and simple to administer."
And Microsoft too, kinda:
"We originally announced pricing of Visual Studio Express [microsoft.com] at US$49. We are now offering Visual Studio Express for free, as a limited-in-time promotional offer, until November 6, 2006
Temps (Score:2, Informative)
I got my current job because I know someone. No way I would have gotten this job otherwise. I know this because I was told so by my manager who hired me. I have a lot of experience, but in other areas. Directly experienced candidates (before me and currently) for the same exact job
Re: (Score:2)
Why there never was a housing bubble (Score:2)
Re:Do the math: They hire the same people (Score:2)
Basically, employers are looking for the fast-sprinters; the people who are the very first to learn a new technology without having to be pushed. Which in turn means you have be in one of two places; a company which allows/wants their employees to be working on the latest technology, or a position that allows you to earn enough money to buy the hardwar
Re:I work for a startup in the valley... (Score:2)
So you didn't bother to look for candidates in other parts of the U.S.?
I call B.S. (Score:2)
Pure, utter, B.S.. It was ALL about economics; there are plenty of qualified engineers out there.
I can guarantee you that, for a $200K per year salary, I can find you ANY number of qualified engineers. I suspect that you'd agree.
Heck, if you're serious, offer the typical 20% fee you'd pay to a recruiting agency to anyone here on Slashdot who can find your ideal candidate, and you'll have
Re:I call B.S. (Score:2)
You seem to be under the impression that what you offered for a salary would attract someone qualified; and reality showed you differently.
I have worked with a lot of hardware engineers doing low-level work; on bringup project
Re:Yeah, but can you afford to live there? (Score:2)
Of course, we don't have many intelligent companies these days. The execs running these stupid companies can easily afford $10 million homes in Silly Valley and they like it there, so they think everyone else should like it there too.
Re:I doubt it ... (Score:2)
Perhaps you prefer housing prices in Beijing (Score:2)