It could have something to do with universities in those regions attempting to teach marketable skills. My own experience in having been forced to learn Ada instead of C/C++ resulted in me only being able to find a job at defense companies. That quite often results in your job being classified so you can't tell prospective employers what you did or show them examples of your work.
That's funny, because various universities in the south west of Germany used to teach Ada in the mid 2000's. They did it because it was seen as an academically valuable language for learning how to program properly.
At least that's what I've been told by complaining students that switched to my university where we learned C, C++, MATLAB, assembler, and VHDL (not exactly software development).
Having graduated over 10 years ago, I've got some different opinions on what universities in Germany teach to people, and maybe what universities teach in general.
If you're in the science and engineering fields they mostly teach you mathematics. All the other skills you can acquire on your own. An opinion that has been at least anecdotally confirmed by a lot of self-taught programmers that I've met who were quite good at programming, despite never having seen the inside of a university. Of course this req
So you a) went to a college that only used one programming language ever, and b) you never learned another since then? No matter which language that was, you would have had a problem.
Where I come from,we did one language the first semester, three languages the second semester, then after that you used whatever language makes sense for the topic of the course, e.g. for a humanities course in cognition we used Prolog.
Isn't Java a PITA? Like, couldn't someone who learned Java go on to learn C++, and then C, for example? If they're smart enough to learn to deal with Java, I mean. I know I find C to be a lot more scrutable.
Once you have access to a debugger like gdb, remember to build with debug symbols, and have tools like valgrind or even electricfence. Then C becomes a lot easier. Once you have what I call a debugging-friendly environment for C, you can make headway on unit tests.
This might be my own bias, but I think going from Java to C is a smaller step than going from Java to C++. There are a lot of new concepts in C++, and the syntax is not always obvious. C is a bit more primitive and the main new skill is learning n
If you're not using it on the job, does that count as "experience" ? I draw a distinction between knowledge and experience. I have quite a bit of knowledge about guitar, but I can't play it to a meaningful degree because I have less than 30 hours of practice into it over the past 5 years of dabbling in it.
It's not just the IT sector either â" almost every company, be it in distribution, manufacturing, or banking, has IT services as part of their infrastructure, and these services, such as payroll or inventory management, are generally built with Java in the backend.
I work since about 1995 mostly with Java. Never heard about a payroll system or inventory management written in Java. This is all off the shelf software like SAP or Oracle stuff (which could be in Java) you simply buy or rent. No one writes his own payroll system, that makes no sense at all.
Stuff in Java are IT systems that actually describe/implement the business work. Like: * power companies planning a day ahead what plants should produce how much power during a given period of time during day. And such a power company will run their payroll by SAP.
* air lines scheduling lay overs of crews and planes
I work since about 1995 mostly with Java. Never heard about a payroll system or inventory management written in Java. This is all off the shelf software like SAP or Oracle stuff (which could be in Java) you simply buy or rent. No one writes his own payroll system, that makes no sense at all.
I know at least one large German electronics retailer who had wirtten the backend for their inventory and merchandise management system in Java. If you need agility in your sales processes, this makes complete sense b
Germans are familiar with long names and parts of Asia are still catching up with modern philosophy behind software development. I'd have more hope if they said they were more likely to program in C or GO than Java. I cannot state enough that Java under Oracle has not been write once run anywhere and has instead been write once, regret forever. I'd rather write in swift, c++ or rust. Give me everything or true convenience. I have so much hope for go, rust and swift. If only swift would commit to non-languag
Used to scare me that kids in Asia had to eat rice and tofu. Now I will scare my kids by telling them that kids in Asia have to program in Java (shudders)
Remember this is a survey done by Jetbrains, you know, the creators of the best Java IDE around. So itâ(TM)s not very surprising that their users are also Java developers.
The creators of Delphi found in their survey that over 99% of the responding developers use Pascal.
And Microsoft asked all Visual Studio users to fill in a survey and it turns out that C# is very popular, and that Java is really on its way out, since there were only 5 J# users left.
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Java Developers (Score:5, Funny)
Does a PHP programmer who lives on the Indonesian island of Java technically count as a Java developer?
Re:Java Developers (Score:4, Insightful)
Not unless he's building a strip mall there.
Re: (Score:2)
That would be an Indonesian developer.
What universities teach (Score:3)
It could have something to do with universities in those regions attempting to teach marketable skills. My own experience in having been forced to learn Ada instead of C/C++ resulted in me only being able to find a job at defense companies. That quite often results in your job being classified so you can't tell prospective employers what you did or show them examples of your work.
Re: (Score:2)
At least that's what I've been told by complaining students that switched to my university where we learned C, C++, MATLAB, assembler, and VHDL (not exactly software development).
Re: (Score:1)
Students: "We don't want to program properly, we want to get a job."
Re: (Score:2)
If you're in the science and engineering fields they mostly teach you mathematics. All the other skills you can acquire on your own. An opinion that has been at least anecdotally confirmed by a lot of self-taught programmers that I've met who were quite good at programming, despite never having seen the inside of a university. Of course this req
Re: (Score:2)
So you a) went to a college that only used one programming language ever, and b) you never learned another since then? No matter which language that was, you would have had a problem.
Where I come from,we did one language the first semester, three languages the second semester, then after that you used whatever language makes sense for the topic of the course, e.g. for a humanities course in cognition we used Prolog.
Monoculture of language? (Score:2)
The lack of diverse programming experience in your country is not something to be proud of.
Re: (Score:2)
Who cares? As long as it pays the bills and works as intended.
Re: (Score:2)
Short term planing doesn't usually lead to long term success.
Re: (Score:1)
Isn't Java a PITA? Like, couldn't someone who learned Java go on to learn C++, and then C, for example? If they're smart enough to learn to deal with Java, I mean. I know I find C to be a lot more scrutable.
Re: (Score:2)
Once you have access to a debugger like gdb, remember to build with debug symbols, and have tools like valgrind or even electricfence. Then C becomes a lot easier. Once you have what I call a debugging-friendly environment for C, you can make headway on unit tests.
This might be my own bias, but I think going from Java to C is a smaller step than going from Java to C++. There are a lot of new concepts in C++, and the syntax is not always obvious. C is a bit more primitive and the main new skill is learning n
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If you're not using it on the job, does that count as "experience" ? I draw a distinction between knowledge and experience. I have quite a bit of knowledge about guitar, but I can't play it to a meaningful degree because I have less than 30 hours of practice into it over the past 5 years of dabbling in it.
Re: (Score:2)
The lack of diverse programming experience in your country is not something to be proud of.
Don't worry, Germans are far more aware of the importance of knowing other languages then Americans are.
Re: (Score:3)
knowing other languages then Americans are.
than
Re: (Score:2)
A simple typo. My bad.
In my defense: English is my second language... normalmente hablo Español.
So like the Axis powers? (Score:2)
Well we know what that makes Larry Ellison then.
Re: (Score:3)
Because China, South Korea, India, Spain, and Brazil were totally Axis powers o_O
May I recommend this? https://www.bol.com/nl/p/world... [bol.com]
Re: (Score:1)
It was a joke.
I've an idea... (Score:5, Funny)
Nonsense (Score:3)
It's not just the IT sector either â" almost every company, be it in distribution, manufacturing, or banking, has IT services as part of their infrastructure, and these services, such as payroll or inventory management, are generally built with Java in the backend.
I work since about 1995 mostly with Java. Never heard about a payroll system or inventory management written in Java. This is all off the shelf software like SAP or Oracle stuff (which could be in Java) you simply buy or rent. No one writes his own payroll system, that makes no sense at all.
Stuff in Java are IT systems that actually describe/implement the business work. Like:
* power companies planning a day ahead what plants should produce how much power during a given period of time during day. And such a power company will run their payroll by SAP.
* air lines scheduling lay overs of crews and planes
* banks internet access
etc.
Re: (Score:1)
I know at least one large German electronics retailer who had wirtten the backend for their inventory and merchandise management system in Java. If you need agility in your sales processes, this makes complete sense b
ok? (Score:1)
Germans are familiar with long names and parts of Asia are still catching up with modern philosophy behind software development. I'd have more hope if they said they were more likely to program in C or GO than Java. I cannot state enough that Java under Oracle has not been write once run anywhere and has instead been write once, regret forever. I'd rather write in swift, c++ or rust. Give me everything or true convenience. I have so much hope for go, rust and swift. If only swift would commit to non-languag
System.out.println (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
More bad news (Score:2)
Mom (Score:3)
C# shrinking? (Score:1)
What evidence do they have for this?
Statistics (Score:3)
Remember this is a survey done by Jetbrains, you know, the creators of the best Java IDE around.
So itâ(TM)s not very surprising that their users are also Java developers.
The creators of Delphi found in their survey that over 99% of the responding developers use Pascal.
And Microsoft asked all Visual Studio users to fill in a survey and it turns out that C# is very popular, and that Java is really on its way out, since there were only 5 J# users left.
Thanks (Score:1)