Would it be possible to make a Python-like language using C-style conventions? Let's call it "Cython" for reference. If most the libraries can be auto-converted, then much of the wheel doesn't have to be reinvented.
Not everyone will like it, but at least those who don't like Python's white-space dependence will enjoy it. It would be a competitor to JavaScript, more or less.
An actual attempt at a constructive suggestion? On Slashdot yet?
But mostly the story makes me feel quite old. I can't accurately count the number of new languages I've studied over the last 30 years, but I've only dabbled. If I had recognized Python as "the future" even 20 years ago, then I could have been "with it" by now. But I had to be perverse about the PERL regexps.
(Actually, it's probably already been about 10 years since I did my most moderately serious dabble with Python... (No, only 5 years ago.)
> I don't get why people are so bent out of space by the spaces
Not sure if stupid or trolling but assuming you are asking a genuine question the problem is NOT space, it is Python's retarded handling of whitespace.
Image if Mathematicians said these two expressions were NOT equivalent?
a = 1+2
a = 1 + 2
You would think this is absolutely insane and you would be correct.
Now apply the same retarded logic to Python. It is common to use multiple columns for code such as using Colu
No, I am not trolling you, but if a particular language says 2 + 2 <> 2+2, then that's basically fine with me. I wonder what Bertrand Russell would have said, but my basic position on language (including computer languages) is Godelian, not purely mathematical. I'm even willing to stipulate that JavaScript is a "shit language", and even that I'm one of those "Dumb programmers", but do you understand that the existence of one skilled programmer who works effectively in Python seems to disprove your the
> that the existence of one skilled programmer who works effectively in Python seems to disprove your thesis?
No. Nothing you said refutes my statements. I didn't say: "Only dumb programmers use dumb languages."
You have fallen for the fallacy of duality. One truth does not negate another truth.
1. Dumb Programmers use Dumb Languages. This is true. 2. Smart Programmers use Dumb Languages. This is also true.
Not every programmer who uses Python is dumb. No doubt there are some smart ones. This is true of any programming language irrespective if the language is good or bad.
The intelligence of the programmer using the language doesn't change the fact that the design of the language, Python in this case, may itself be retarded. Python was designed by someone who doesn't have a fucking clue about problems programmers face day in, day out. It was badly designed with some bullshit ideology on how they THINK programming should be done -- as if there is only ONE way to write good code. **FACEPALM**
Shit languages are popular because dumb programmers are lazy. They are too stupid to understand WHAT makes a language retarded. Or if they do know, they don't care. Their apathy doesn't change the fact that there are poorly designed languages (such as Python, or such as JavaScript which learnt NOTHING from the programming mistakes of BASIC) and there are better designed ones that actually learnt from past of mistakes programmers made. A programmer using EXTRA whitespace is not a mistake.
Whitespace is meant for humans. We align code in table format to make it easier for humans to read. The compiler doesn't give a fuck how much whitespace you use because it has ZERO meaning other then being a placeholder.
The pattern of dual functions shows up quite a bit. Good indentation allows for easier readability and to make it easier to spot errors. It is NOT the compiler's job to enforce indentation.
Compare this shitty formatting:
pushMatrix(); rotate(); scale(); translate();
Indentation makes it trivial to spot the missing popMatrix():
Will linters / static analysis [wikipedia.org] catch this? Some will. But why rely on even more tools to catch something that could have easily been caught if you used good indentation in the first place?? If you lack the discipline to use good indentation in the first place then you are either a noob or don't deserve to programming because clearly you don't give a shit to learn HOW to become a better programmer.
The reason BASIC and JavaScript are such shit languages because it makes a programmer's life more difficult then it needs to be. We have had many painful lessons that the ability to just use a variable without declaring it leads to numerous "invisible" bugs. Misspell a variable name? Good luck tracking it down.
Python's retarded language design likewise makes it harder on yourself. Communication is NOT an absolute. There are always exceptions. Sometimes these exceptions are clearer. Trying to mandate a "one true indent style" is just as stupid as trying to mandate a "one true brace style". Not everyone reads code the same way. Extra whitespace can sometimes help.
Here is an example of "abusing" comments to keep the context while still allowing the compiler to function correctly. Using underscore (_) to force whitespace align since/.'s shitty ecode formatting eats consecutive whitespace. Sorry that it looks like crap here:
/**/ if (data[mid] < key) _ min _= mid + 1; else if (data[mid] > key) _ max _= mid - 1; else/* (data[mid] = key)*/ return mid _ _;
Obviously this is an exception but in a sane language the programmer can format code the way BEST for other people. They don't have to fight against some retarded compiler that is complaining about whitespace that DOESN'T change the semantics or execution.
The first thing they can fix is (Score:1, Troll)
... The stupid reliance on tabs to mark blocks.
Let's invent "Cython" (Score:2)
Would it be possible to make a Python-like language using C-style conventions? Let's call it "Cython" for reference. If most the libraries can be auto-converted, then much of the wheel doesn't have to be reinvented.
Not everyone will like it, but at least those who don't like Python's white-space dependence will enjoy it. It would be a competitor to JavaScript, more or less.
Re: (Score:1)
An actual attempt at a constructive suggestion? On Slashdot yet?
But mostly the story makes me feel quite old. I can't accurately count the number of new languages I've studied over the last 30 years, but I've only dabbled. If I had recognized Python as "the future" even 20 years ago, then I could have been "with it" by now. But I had to be perverse about the PERL regexps.
(Actually, it's probably already been about 10 years since I did my most moderately serious dabble with Python... (No, only 5 years ago.)
Re: (Score:3)
> I don't get why people are so bent out of space by the spaces
Not sure if stupid or trolling but assuming you are asking a genuine question the problem is NOT space, it is Python's retarded handling of whitespace.
Image if Mathematicians said these two expressions were NOT equivalent?
a = 1+2
a = 1 + 2
You would think this is absolutely insane and you would be correct.
Now apply the same retarded logic to Python. It is common to use multiple columns for code such as using Colu
Re: (Score:1)
No, I am not trolling you, but if a particular language says 2 + 2 <> 2+2, then that's basically fine with me. I wonder what Bertrand Russell would have said, but my basic position on language (including computer languages) is Godelian, not purely mathematical. I'm even willing to stipulate that JavaScript is a "shit language", and even that I'm one of those "Dumb programmers", but do you understand that the existence of one skilled programmer who works effectively in Python seems to disprove your the
Re:Let's invent "Cython" (Score:2)
> that the existence of one skilled programmer who works effectively in Python seems to disprove your thesis?
No. Nothing you said refutes my statements. I didn't say: "Only dumb programmers use dumb languages."
You have fallen for the fallacy of duality. One truth does not negate another truth.
1. Dumb Programmers use Dumb Languages. This is true.
2. Smart Programmers use Dumb Languages. This is also true.
Not every programmer who uses Python is dumb. No doubt there are some smart ones. This is true of any programming language irrespective if the language is good or bad.
The intelligence of the programmer using the language doesn't change the fact that the design of the language, Python in this case, may itself be retarded. Python was designed by someone who doesn't have a fucking clue about problems programmers face day in, day out. It was badly designed with some bullshit ideology on how they THINK programming should be done -- as if there is only ONE way to write good code. **FACEPALM**
Shit languages are popular because dumb programmers are lazy. They are too stupid to understand WHAT makes a language retarded. Or if they do know, they don't care. Their apathy doesn't change the fact that there are poorly designed languages (such as Python, or such as JavaScript which learnt NOTHING from the programming mistakes of BASIC) and there are better designed ones that actually learnt from past of mistakes programmers made. A programmer using EXTRA whitespace is not a mistake.
Whitespace is meant for humans. We align code in table format to make it easier for humans to read. The compiler doesn't give a fuck how much whitespace you use because it has ZERO meaning other then being a placeholder.
The pattern of dual functions shows up quite a bit. Good indentation allows for easier readability and to make it easier to spot errors. It is NOT the compiler's job to enforce indentation.
Compare this shitty formatting:
Indentation makes it trivial to spot the missing popMatrix():
That is:
Will linters / static analysis [wikipedia.org] catch this? Some will. But why rely on even more tools to catch something that could have easily been caught if you used good indentation in the first place?? If you lack the discipline to use good indentation in the first place then you are either a noob or don't deserve to programming because clearly you don't give a shit to learn HOW to become a better programmer.
The reason BASIC and JavaScript are such shit languages because it makes a programmer's life more difficult then it needs to be. We have had many painful lessons that the ability to just use a variable without declaring it leads to numerous "invisible" bugs. Misspell a variable name? Good luck tracking it down.
Python's retarded language design likewise makes it harder on yourself. Communication is NOT an absolute. There are always exceptions. Sometimes these exceptions are clearer. Trying to mandate a "one true indent style" is just as stupid as trying to mandate a "one true brace style". Not everyone reads code the same way. Extra whitespace can sometimes help.
Here is an example of "abusing" comments to keep the context while still allowing the compiler to function correctly. Using underscore (_) to force whitespace align since /.'s shitty ecode formatting eats consecutive whitespace. Sorry that it looks like crap here:
Obviously this is an exception but in a sane language the programmer can format code the way BEST for other people. They don't have to fight against some retarded compiler that is complaining about whitespace that DOESN'T change the semantics or execution.