... it's the white collar execs (and wannabe execs) here in Corporate America that we're mad at!
They get the nice fat promotions and bonuses, while our jobs go elsewhere. And we are the same people they praised just last year as invaluable assets to the company.
So what happened? They can't get rich pulling fancy accounting tricks, so this is what they've resorted to.
I seriously hope that I'm wrong when I predict that this whole thing will fail miserably (taking the off-shore jobs with it).
They get the nice fat promotions and bonuses, while our jobs go elsewhere. And we are the same people they praised just last year as invaluable assets to the company.
So what happened? They can't get rich pulling fancy accounting tricks, so this is what they've resorted to.
Recall that the primary objective of most corporations is only to make money. Everything else is secondary, including you and me. You can take that $120k job but remember that you're signing with a company--and management--whose primary driver is to make money.
Don't like the system? You can start your own company. I'm going to try that out, personally.
Actually the primary purpose of coprorations is to create value which has been perverted in recent times to be all about short term monetary gains, partly because that fattens up the compensation packages for the upper level execs so management's primary goal has become profits and more money rather than increasing sharholder value.
Value can be about much more than money especially when you are thinking farther than 1 or 2 quarters ahead, which is where the upper level execs should be looking. A good value increasing strategy can be a loser for short term profits but beneficial to the company overall in the longer term.
Outsourcing your core business (which I admit many companies who are outsourcing to India arent doing) is very dangerous in the mid to long term outlook for the value of your company because you are eventually going to create your own strong competitors in your own markets, while reducing your own staff including some of the employees who produce the value in your company.
However its very attractive in the very short term because cutting costs results in an immediate increase in the bottom line - and profits cause shares to go up in the current market environment regardless if they are wise in the long term.
In terms of the private sector, it's hard to say. In terms of risk it's actually better to take the 1 dollar now. Depending on how risky the 10 cent a week venture is, it might not be a reliable return.
Actually the primary purpose of coprorations is to create value which has been perverted in recent times to be all about short term monetary gains
I've written a few business plans (which codifies the purpose of a corporation), and it all comes down to how you will make money. Investors and most business partners could care less about the value of what you make, unless poor value results in poor profits.
I'm struggling to understand what you mean by value. As Inogo Montoya said, "You keep using that word
Value is the long term outlook of the company providing returns over the long term in the form of dividends and reasonable returns on investment.
Much of the investor (particualarly large investors) market is more interested on getting the most profit out of a company in the next couple of quarters or a bit more regardless of the harm to the long term value of the company since they feel they can probably be gone by that point have made their profit and don't care about the harm to the company and the resul
Recall that the primary objective of most corporations is only to make money. Everything else is secondary, including you and me. You can take that $120k job but remember that you're signing with a company--and management--whose primary driver is to make money.
Oh, yeah? Then why aren't they offshoring the management jobs, too, huh?
Right. It's not just about making money for the corporation.
"Oh, yeah? Then why aren't they offshoring the management jobs, too, huh?"
That, my friend, is the inevitable next step.
Programming jobs move to india for the simple reason that there are indian programmers just as skilled as american programmers, willing to do the same job for one tenth of their pay.
It is exactly the same reason sneakers are manufactures in east asia - they have workers just as skilled as americans only much cheaper. (Even if they don't run a sweatshop)
Recall that the primary objective of most corporations is only to make money. Everything else is secondary, including you and me.
at work we recieved the new mission statement of the company, the first line now has a part that actualy goes like this -...please the shareholders... - nowhere did i find anything anymore about the customer, which was still pretented to be the primary target to be pleased at the time i started working there. well at least now they are honest enough...
Programmers are free to work for less money. If it were possible to ship a Big Mac over from India quickly enough, McDonalds would outsource its employees too. Doing so saves consumers money, makes the company more profit, or both.
If you want a welfare check, just ask for it.
Corporate managers are paid to cut costs. That may not fit into your ideal lifestyle choices, but you are free to start your own corporation and compete with the evil ones if you think you're on to a better alternative.
Corporate managers are paid to cut costs. That may not fit into your ideal lifestyle choices
My "ideal lifestyle" includes such concepts as "eating" and "a place to sleep". If I don't have another concept known as "a job", those are kind of hard to come by.
Wrong. Asking for less money makes one seem desperate to an employeer. I've tried it. Perceptions and stereotypes shape everything WRT hiring and wage decisions. One is stuck between the perception rock and the globalism hard-place. The perception is that an H-1B (visa worker) will be more greatful and docile for less money. Whether it is true or not, the employer is not going to wait to find out.
It's not corporate america either, it's called capitalism. Any value added to a thing must be done in the most cost effective way possible. If not competition will do it for you.
Times are over where IT projects are the exeption from the rule. We can try to do the same work more cost effective or the indians will do it for us. It's our choice.
I think it comes down to all of us calling for cheaper products and services all the time, me included.
It's not the white collar execs that you're mad at, its the stockholders. It's the folks who demand higher and higher profits every quarter, it's the folks who force the company to layoff workers to reduce overhead, ect.
We can play the blame game all day long, but India simply does the work cheaper.
The US started out as an agriculture based economy. Times have changed, they've evolved, and they'll continue to do so.
The government was bought off, and was lied to that we needed infinite IT workers, when all they really wanted was infinitely cheaper IT workers.
Just like the vast majority of clothing is made outside the US, even Levi jeans now, they want to ship any job that has a differential labor cost overseas, or import the labor here.
Differential labor cost = They do it cheaper somewhere else.
The flipside is if we cannot get them to do it there, we will ship the visa workers here.
When these countries do not have t
Promptness is its own reward, if one lives by the clock instead of the sword.
It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:5, Insightful)
They get the nice fat promotions and bonuses, while our jobs go elsewhere. And we are the same people they praised just last year as invaluable assets to the company.
So what happened? They can't get rich pulling fancy accounting tricks, so this is what they've resorted to.
I seriously hope that I'm wrong when I predict that this whole thing will fail miserably (taking the off-shore jobs with it).
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:5, Insightful)
They get the nice fat promotions and bonuses, while our jobs go elsewhere. And we are the same people they praised just last year as invaluable assets to the company.
So what happened? They can't get rich pulling fancy accounting tricks, so this is what they've resorted to.
Recall that the primary objective of most corporations is only to make money. Everything else is secondary, including you and me. You can take that $120k job but remember that you're signing with a company--and management--whose primary driver is to make money.
Don't like the system? You can start your own company. I'm going to try that out, personally.
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:5, Insightful)
Value can be about much more than money especially when you are thinking farther than 1 or 2 quarters ahead, which is where the upper level execs should be looking. A good value increasing strategy can be a loser for short term profits but beneficial to the company overall in the longer term.
Outsourcing your core business (which I admit many companies who are outsourcing to India arent doing) is very dangerous in the mid to long term outlook for the value of your company because you are eventually going to create your own strong competitors in your own markets, while reducing your own staff including some of the employees who produce the value in your company.
However its very attractive in the very short term because cutting costs results in an immediate increase in the bottom line - and profits cause shares to go up in the current market environment regardless if they are wise in the long term.
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:1)
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:2)
I've written a few business plans (which codifies the purpose of a corporation), and it all comes down to how you will make money. Investors and most business partners could care less about the value of what you make, unless poor value results in poor profits.
I'm struggling to understand what you mean by value. As Inogo Montoya said, "You keep using that word
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:2)
Much of the investor (particualarly large investors) market is more interested on getting the most profit out of a company in the next couple of quarters or a bit more regardless of the harm to the long term value of the company since they feel they can probably be gone by that point have made their profit and don't care about the harm to the company and the resul
short-term (Re:It's not the Indian programmers...) (Score:2)
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, yeah? Then why aren't they offshoring the management jobs, too, huh?
Right. It's not just about making money for the corporation.
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:2)
That, my friend, is the inevitable next step.
Programming jobs move to india for the simple reason that there are indian programmers just as skilled as american programmers, willing to do the same job for one tenth of their pay.
It is exactly the same reason sneakers are manufactures in east asia - they have workers just as skilled as americans only much cheaper. (Even if they don't run a sweatshop)
Soon the corporate owners will di
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:1)
at work we recieved the new mission statement of the company, the first line now has a part that actualy goes like this - ...please the shareholders... - nowhere did i find anything anymore about the customer, which was still pretented to be the primary target to be pleased at the time i started working there. well at least now they are honest enough...
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:2)
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:1, Troll)
If you want a welfare check, just ask for it.
Corporate managers are paid to cut costs. That may not fit into your ideal lifestyle choices, but you are free to start your own corporation and compete with the evil ones if you think you're on to a better alternative.
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:2)
My "ideal lifestyle" includes such concepts as "eating" and "a place to sleep". If I don't have another concept known as "a job", those are kind of hard to come by.
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:1)
Wrong. Asking for less money makes one seem desperate to an employeer. I've tried it. Perceptions and stereotypes shape everything WRT hiring and wage decisions. One is stuck between the perception rock and the globalism hard-place. The perception is that an H-1B (visa worker) will be more greatful and docile for less money. Whether it is true or not, the employer is not going to wait to find out.
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:1)
Times are over where IT projects are the exeption from the rule. We can try to do the same work more cost effective or the indians will do it for us. It's our choice.
I think it comes down to all of us calling for cheaper products and services all the time, me included.
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:1)
It's not the white collar execs that you're mad at, its the stockholders. It's the folks who demand higher and higher profits every quarter, it's the folks who force the company to layoff workers to reduce overhead, ect.
We can play the blame game all day long, but India simply does the work cheaper.
The US started out as an agriculture based economy. Times have changed, they've evolved, and they'll continue to do so.
--Dave
Re:It's not the Indian programmers... (Score:1)
Or is it that you also need to provide a service people are willing to pay for?
Corporate and government crooks (Score:2)
infinite IT workers, when all they really wanted was infinitely
cheaper IT workers
Just like the vast majority of clothing is made outside the US,
even Levi jeans now, they want to ship any job that has a
differential labor cost overseas, or import the labor here
Differential labor cost = They do it cheaper somewhere else
The flipside is if we cannot get them to do it there, we will
ship the visa workers here
When these countries do not have t