Are there really really good, really smart Indian programmers? Of course there are! But overall, on the average, outsourcing will end up biting most companies in the ass, in the long run. There are hidden costs to it, like the 11 hour time difference, language barriers, cultural differences (anecdotally, from many accounts, Indians tend not to raise questions, or think independently when a design sucks, etc.)
Worse yet, this will bite the US Software industry in the ass when we suffer from brain drain - when software engineering is no longer a sought after degree. Then the Indians will start their own companies, and eat our lunches.
Worse still - with the decimation of these high-paying jobs, comes an overall lowering of the standard of living here in the US. These companies got rich by selling to the richest market in the world - American consumers. By gutting their own customers, these companies are shooting themselves in the foot.
- - - That said - the writing, in big letters, in crayon, is: Investors should believe that a wise company outsources, because it's a move towards efficiency. It will eliminate those overpaid "web designers" that are sapping corporate profits. Companies are "cutting fat". It's perceived as a gutsy move.
Actually, it's the herd mentality. "Oh my god! IBM's outsourcing, they're going to KILL us unless we outsource too."
But mainly - it's a movement designed to lure investment dollars back to the Tech Industry. It's basically hype. Companies who outsource are selling stock. Not products and services. This is their motivation, their drive. And it's very much a herd mentality. Among investors, AND corporations. They may be heading off a cliff. They may be heading to the slaughterhouse. Or perhaps greener pastures. But make no mistake. The Outsourcing Movement is NOT a drive to offer better service, or find better talent, or even save real money. It's a drive to LOOK like they are.
(anecdotally, from many accounts, Indians tend not to raise questions, or think independently when a design sucks, etc.)
Worse yet, this will bite the US Software industry in the ass when we suffer from brain drain - when software engineering is no longer a sought after degree.
Then the Indians will start their own companies, and eat our lunches.
The same Indians you characterize as non-independent-thinking, unquestioning, uncreative, and poor-designers?
well, in my opinion, it *IS* racist, and I'm sorry my original comment came off that way. But then, look at all the comments that came back defending what I said.
My personal experiences are also the same. Interestingly - when dealing with Americans of Indian Descent - I don't see that same kind of attitude.
Perhaps it serves Indian nationals well, in the economic climate from which they're currently ascending. In the end, perhaps this cultural issue will go away, as the influx of wealth to the workers in
> (anecdotally, from many accounts, Indians tend not to raise questions, or think independently when a design sucks, etc.)
jesus christ that's such a racist thing to say, 'from many accounts' or not.
I cannot speak to the 'thinking independently' assertion, but from my experience working with teams in India, the 'raising questions' assertion is dead on. There is, however, a very good reason for this mindset. At my job, if the spec isn't clear, the programmer fires off an email and the owner of the spe
> here is, however, a very good reason for this mindset. At my job, if the spec isn't clear, the programmer fires off an email and the owner of the spec sees it and replies pretty much immediately. Since the Indian programmer is working essentially the opposite hours as the spec owner, his questions have a full day turn around time.
Yep, this all makes sense. What's it got to do with "Indians"?
If the OP had said
"telecomuting/ outsourced programmers have to work without direct supervision, so often proc
Isn't writing specs just a higher-level programming language (UML)?
That's my problem with this article. Telling misplaced IT workers that it's going to be okay if they just learn to program "lower level programmers" in a more abstract language, they'll find work again.
While I've noticed some of the Indian people I work with are quiet and don't rock the boat, I consider it a cultural thing- sort of like how you would zip your mouth in a Honda Design meeting. Also there are plently of outspoken Indian people I work with. So obviously- let's forget the blatent stereotyping. It serves no one It seems to me most of the comments below are having trouble with this and miss the point in the process.
The interesting thing is companies are using this outsourcing thing as FUD t
THese people are not stupid they research the benefits and con's and clearly its a benefit to outsource, They save MILLIONS of dollars.
Just because Seinfield and other American shows portray people from other ethnic backgrounds and morons who can't speach properly doesn't make it fact. There is no communication barrior because the people communicate with fluent english, and do courses to understand American culture.
You guys are kidding yourself's into thinking just because your American you that makes yo
Promptness is its own reward, if one lives by the clock instead of the sword.
Just more hype (Score:5, Interesting)
Are there really really good, really smart Indian programmers? Of course there are! But overall, on the average, outsourcing will end up biting most companies in the ass, in the long run. There are hidden costs to it, like the 11 hour time difference, language barriers, cultural differences (anecdotally, from many accounts, Indians tend not to raise questions, or think independently when a design sucks, etc.)
Worse yet, this will bite the US Software industry in the ass when we suffer from brain drain - when software engineering is no longer a sought after degree. Then the Indians will start their own companies, and eat our lunches.
Worse still - with the decimation of these high-paying jobs, comes an overall lowering of the standard of living here in the US. These companies got rich by selling to the richest market in the world - American consumers. By gutting their own customers, these companies are shooting themselves in the foot.
- - -
That said - the writing, in big letters, in crayon, is:
Investors should believe that a wise company outsources, because it's a move towards efficiency. It will eliminate those overpaid "web designers" that are sapping corporate profits. Companies are "cutting fat". It's perceived as a gutsy move.
Actually, it's the herd mentality. "Oh my god! IBM's outsourcing, they're going to KILL us unless we outsource too."
But mainly - it's a movement designed to lure investment dollars back to the Tech Industry. It's basically hype. Companies who outsource are selling stock. Not products and services. This is their motivation, their drive. And it's very much a herd mentality. Among investors, AND corporations. They may be heading off a cliff. They may be heading to the slaughterhouse. Or perhaps greener pastures. But make no mistake. The Outsourcing Movement is NOT a drive to offer better service, or find better talent, or even save real money. It's a drive to LOOK like they are.
Re:I hate to even add this comment (Score:1)
Re:Just more hype (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Just more hype (Score:2)
Gotta ask - what's this from? Sounds vaguely familiar, but my brain can't place it.
Re:Just more hype (Score:1)
Re:Just more hype (Score:2)
jesus christ that's such a racist thing to say, 'from many accounts' or not.
> Worse still - with the decimation of these
> high-paying jobs, comes an overall lowering of the
> standard of living here in the US.
what a bad thing that is. i mean the US really needs to *raise* it's standard of living compared to, say, India, doesn't it
This is wealth redistribution in action, t
Re:Just more hype (Score:2)
My personal experiences are also the same. Interestingly - when dealing with Americans of Indian Descent - I don't see that same kind of attitude.
Perhaps it serves Indian nationals well, in the economic climate from which they're currently ascending.
In the end, perhaps this cultural issue will go away, as the influx of wealth to the workers in
Re:Just more hype (Score:2)
Re:Just more hype (Score:2)
jesus christ that's such a racist thing to say, 'from many accounts' or not.
I cannot speak to the 'thinking independently' assertion, but from my experience working with teams in India, the 'raising questions' assertion is dead on. There is, however, a very good reason for this mindset. At my job, if the spec isn't clear, the programmer fires off an email and the owner of the spe
Re:Just more hype (Score:2)
Yep, this all makes sense. What's it got to do with "Indians"?
If the OP had said
"telecomuting/ outsourced programmers have to work without direct supervision, so often proc
Re:Just more hype (Score:2)
That's my problem with this article. Telling misplaced IT workers that it's going to be okay if they just learn to program "lower level programmers" in a more abstract language, they'll find work again.
That's bullshit.
Re:Just more hype (Score:1)
The interesting thing is companies are using this outsourcing thing as FUD t
Re:Just more hype (Score:2)
That's a natural progression, since someone has already moved the cheese.
Re:Just more hype (Score:1)